ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[greenleo]

12 hours ago, yellowblue said:

No, but I am as interested as you what others will think . Is the IR somewhere near the txUSBUltra I will keep it and might buy the UltraRendu when it comes out instead for go the SoTM-path (which I think is really expensive).  Is there someone living in Sweden who owns a txUSBUltra - he/she would be welcome home to me to compare those two units.

I suspect UR is mR + IR.  If two IR in series may not improve the SQ of an IR that much, then....

 

I saw members in this thread  somewnhere stated that 200Ultra followed IR gave a nice SQ improvement.  So far hasn't seen any good report yet on the reverse setup.  Hence I guess 200Ultra on its own is better than IR.  A wild guess, though.

[Superdad]

26 minutes ago, greenleo said:

I suspect UR is mR + IR.

 

That is not correct.

 

26 minutes ago, greenleo said:

I saw members in this thread  somewnhere stated that 200Ultra followed IR gave a nice SQ improvement.  So far hasn't seen any good report yet on the reverse setup.  Hence I guess 200Ultra on its own is better than IR.  A wild guess, though.

 

Too much guessing Colin (am I remembering your name correctly?).  Perhaps you ought to order an ISO REGEN for yourself so you won't have to speculate. 

 

Cheers,

Alex C.

[rickca]

For me, the most noticeable thing about the ISO REGEN is more realistic timbre of instruments.  I listen to a lot of solo piano and chamber music.  The original REGEN did this too, but the ISO REGEN does it even better.

 

In particular, the upper registers of piano are remarkable.  It's easy to hear very subtle variations in the pianist's touch. Treble is really sparkling and clean when it should be.  

 

You don't have to listen for this.  You don't need to be in the right mood.  It just communicates with you.  It's very, very satisfying.

[austinpop]

5 minutes ago, rickca said:

n particular, the upper registers of piano are remarkable.  It's easy to hear very subtle variations in the pianist's touch. Treble is really sparkling and clean when it should be.  

 

Nice, Rick! A ringing endorsement.

 

Without the ringing (as in, harshness, glaze)!

[Superdad]

Well since more folks are receiving their ISO REGENs today, I am getting a lot of nice e-mails about what they are hearing.  Here is one I received this morning from the USA importer of Brazilian Audiopax amps (tried to get them an ISO REGEN for their room at Munich but FedEx messed up and it arrived too late).  Gordon sent this to me from a camping/fishing trip he just started, and I am sure he won't mind me posting what he wrote:

Alex,  

The new ISO REGEN is, like everyone has been saying, absolutely astonishingly good.  Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I wanted to wait until I had enough time to properly evaluate it.  It is doing everything that you said it would do--and maybe more if that is possible?  The bass, air and shear musicality are well......glorious. Congratulations on yet another amazing product.  A significant contribution to the field.

 

We very much appreciate your extra effort to get an early unit to us at the Munich Show.  It is a shame that in the end we weren't able to get in the show system.  But again, thank you so much for making the effort.  Rather than sending a "this is amazing" report after several hours of listening, I wanted to wait for a proper burn-in and evaluation period and as I mentioned before I was traveling after the show.  Finally, after living with the wonderful ISO REGEN for awhile I can now say with confidence that it is truly amazing!!!!  

 

Again, congratulations on another job very well done.

 

Regards,  Gordon, Audiopax USA

 

 

[SWL3600]

Got my ISO-Regen today. Initial impressions are very good. More weight to the bass and instruments sound more realistic.....as do the vocals.

 

Have you guys noticed a burn in period that the ISO-REGEN improved after a certain amount of time?

 

I won't be able to do a proper evaluation until the weekend but in the meantime I'll leave the full loom of Curious Regen-Links in place until I can order a second USPCB connector.

 

While I'm typing this.....it's kinda freaking me out how realistic Donald Fagen's voice sounds (The Nightfly).

 

Thanks Alex!

[greenleo]

47 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

That is not correct.

 

 

Too much guessing Colin (am I remembering your name correctly?).  Perhaps you ought to order an ISO REGEN for yourself so you won't have to speculate. 

 

Cheers,

Alex C.

Hi Alex,

 

I'm glad that if UR > mR + IR seriously and I'm not Coin.

 

Anyway, shouldn't mention the product of other company here---I didn't notice that I's in this thread and thought that I's in another thread.  Please accept my apology and you may delete my response if you find it appropriate---I won't minbd at all.

 

Finally, as you may have noticed already, I'm a fan of Uptone.  However, the replies of me to other members was the best knowledge then.  Also I always use guess, suspect ... to qualify my statement and those words meant not a proven  truth but a speculation.  Everything I shared was from the bottom of my heart.

[Superdad]

44 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Finally, as you may have noticed already, I'm a fan of Uptone.  However, the replies of me to other members was the best knowledge then.  Also I always use guess, suspect ... to qualify my statement and those words meant not a proven  truth but a speculation.  Everything I shared was from the bottom of my heart.

 

No worries at all.  I always enjoy reading your posts.  Sorry I mistook you for Colin in the UK. 

 

I know that a lot of microRendu users (and SOtM users) are interested in the ISO REGEN.  And indeed the great clock, the excellent signal integrity from our selected USB 3.1 hub chip, and to some extent even the extra galvanic isolation, all make the ISO REGEN a nice companion piece to those renderers. But the target audience for the ISO REGEN is far wider that just for streamers (what it does for a stock computer can be extraordinary), so I guess I tire of constantly reading posts from many about the order and tradeoffs of the ISO REGEN in Ethernet streamer chains.

 

Plus, while John Swenson designs for both UpTone and Sonore, we are separate firms (though quite friendly of course).  You might be surprised at how many e-mails I receive asking for details or other information about Sonore products and plans.  (I even have a stock e-mail template used to decline to divulge information or suggesting the usage information questions be directed to Sonore.)

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

[agladstone]

Has anyone yet compared:

W4S RUR vs. ISO Regen?

IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 vs. ISO Regen? 

Also curious if anyone has tried ISO Regen going into either W4S RUR or Micro iUSB 3.0 (as a chain, vs. for example Intona -> either W4S RUR or Micro iUSB 3.0)? 

My apologies if anyone has reported any impressions of the above prior in this thread, I've tried my best to read through it and don't believe I've seen any of these reports, but do recall at least one person who did comment they have ISO Regen and Micro iUSB 3.0). 

Thanks!

[No Disc]

Placed my order today for the ISO Regen and the LPS-1, now the long wait begins.  Good things come to those who wait, right?

 

Anyone have the ISO Regen with Mac Mini and Chord DAC and can share your impressions?

 

 

[greenleo]

9 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

No worries at all.  I always enjoy reading your posts.  Sorry I mistook you for Colin in the UK. 

 

I know that a lot of microRendu users (and SOtM users) are interested in the ISO REGEN.  And indeed the great clock, the excellent signal integrity from our selected USB 3.1 hub chip, and to some extent even the extra galvanic isolation, all make the ISO REGEN a nice companion piece to those renderers. But the target audience for the ISO REGEN is far wider that just for streamers (what it does for a stock computer can be extraordinary), so I guess I tire of constantly reading posts from many about the order and tradeoffs of the ISO REGEN in Ethernet streamer chains.

 

Plus, while John Swenson designs for both UpTone and Sonore, we are separate firms (though quite friendly of course).  You might be surprised at how many e-mails I receive asking for details or other information about Sonore products and plans.  (I even have a stock e-mail template used to decline to divulge information or suggesting the usage information questions be directed to Sonore.)

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

I felt for you, Alex and I mean it!  I'm facing something similar from time to time, just in a different context.

 

Asking company A to disclose the product of company B is overstepping in my POV.  Given that you've already mentioned that it's unwise for a company to disclose something that she is doing in the next 9 months, and I agree with that post totally, I'm highly surprised if the post hasn't stopped those emails. 

 

Finally, thanks for the great product, IR.

[auricgoldfinger]

Alex and/or John,

 

On a highly resolving system that has a very dark background, how much improvement will I hear (thinking in terms of percentages) using a JS-2 vs. an LPS-1 to power my ISO Regen?  Which unit offers the best performance?  Is the improvement on the order of 10%, 25%, 50% better?  What have you found?

 

I know you may find this question difficult to answer, but please do your best.

 

Thanks.

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

Alex and/or John,

 

On a highly resolving system that has a very dark background, how much improvement will I hear (thinking in terms of percentages) using a JS-2 vs. an LPS-1 to power my ISO Regen?  Which unit offers the best performance?  Is the improvement on the order of 10%, 25%, 50% better?  What have you found?I

 

I'm interested in hearing their thoughts too.  

 

I should mention that I ended up preferring the LPS-1 powering the ISO REGEN and the JS-2 powering the microRendu over the reverse situation.  I didn't spend much time trying to tease out differences.  It just seemed that the treble had a tendency to be a little hot with the JS-2 powering the IR.  The treble became more balanced and natural when I swapped supplies.  

[audiojerry]

I connected my IR-LPS-1 package after it arrived Monday morning. Unfortunately, I've not been able to spend any length of time with it because my wife and I are wrapped up in a big diy home improvement project, and she would not take kindly to me disappearing for a few hours to listen to music.

 

But I did manage to sneek in a few moments comparing the sound of my system with and without the IR-LPS-1, and the instant I switched to the IR-LPS-1, it was one of those HOLY SH!T! experiences. The improvement was instantaneous and dramatic. I am anxiously looking forward to spending some serious time listening and trying to determine the characteristics and contributions of each component.

 

The price of the ISO-REGEN and LPS-1 together represents a BIG bang for my bucks!    

[agladstone]

Anyone using the ISO Regen going into another USB Reclocker device within a chain? 

i.e. ISO Regen -> IFI Micro USB 3.0 -> DAC ? 

If I were to use an ISO Regen going into another Reclocker and the ISO Regen was powered by an LPS-1, but the next Reclocker in the chain (the one closest to the DAC) was NOT, would that nullify the benefits of the LPS-1? 

Thanks

[elan120]

5 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Anyone using the ISO Regen going into another USB Reclocker device within a chain? 

i.e. ISO Regen -> IFI Micro USB 3.0 -> DAC ? 

If I were to use an ISO Regen going into another Reclocker and the ISO Regen was powered by an LPS-1, but the next Reclocker in the chain (the one closest to the DAC) was NOT, would that nullify the benefits of the LPS-1? 

Thanks

I have my chain with ifi Micro USB3.0 going into IsoRegen and the result is great.  Not sure why go the other way though.

[mozes]

8 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Anyone using the ISO Regen going into another USB Reclocker device within a chain? 

i.e. ISO Regen -> IFI Micro USB 3.0 -> DAC ? 

If I were to use an ISO Regen going into another Reclocker and the ISO Regen was powered by an LPS-1, but the next Reclocker in the chain (the one closest to the DAC) was NOT, would that nullify the benefits of the LPS-1? 

Thanks

 No, I have my IR feeding a tX USBultra with excellent performance. I would rather try the IR between your iFI micro usb and Dac. 

[agladstone]

Just now, elan120 said:

I have my chain with ifi Micro USB3.0 going into IsoRegen and the result is great.  Not sure why go the other way though.

Thank you for your response!! 

I have just purchased (has not arrived yet) a Micro iUSB 3.0 to replace my W4S RUR. 

I still want to address Galvanic Isolation and until the ISO Regen was released, I had been planning on getting an Intona. 

Now, I'm thinking that the ISO Regen w/ LPS-1 would be a better option vs the Intona. 

I know the Intona is supposed to go before the Reclocker within a chain, so I thought that's where the ISO Regen would go too? 

Have to tried just ISO Regen alone vs. Micro iUSB as an experiment? 

Have you tried it before Micro iUSB vs after? 

Last, are you also using an LPS-1? 

Thanks!! 

[austinpop]

In my experience - and this is purely empirical:

1. you want the component with the "best" clock closest to the DAC. Which has the better clock - the iFi or the ISO-R? I'm not going to presume to know.
2. you want the isolating supply (LPS-1) after the galvanic isolation

However, realize that these are only starting points. Don't assume anything. Experiment both ways and decide with your ears. Then report back, because it helps build the collective wisdom.

 

 

[elan120]

3 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Thank you for your response!! 

I have just purchased (has not arrived yet) a Micro iUSB 3.0 to replace my W4S RUR. 

I still want to address Galvanic Isolation and until the ISO Regen was released, I had been planning on getting an Intona. 

Now, I'm thinking that the ISO Regen w/ LPS-1 would be a better option vs the Intona. 

I know the Intona is supposed to go before the Reclocker within a chain, so I thought that's where the ISO Regen would go too? 

Have to tried just ISO Regen alone vs. Micro iUSB as an experiment? 

Have you tried it before Micro iUSB vs after? 

Last, are you also using an LPS-1? 

Thanks!! 

I do have Iso Regen powered by LPS-1 (purchased together), and I did try using with and without Micro iUSB in the chain, the result is with Micro iUSB, it is just slightly better than without, so I keep the unit in the chain.  I have not tried connecting IR before since I do want to use USPCB instead of cable (my case would be Gemini).

[emailtim]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

In my experience - and this is purely empirical:

1. you want the component with the "best" clock closest to the DAC. Which has the better clock - the iFi or the ISO-R? I'm not going to presume to know.
2. you want the isolating supply (LPS-1) after the galvanic isolation

However, realize that these are only starting points. Don't assume anything. Experiment both ways and decide with your ears. Then report back, because it helps build the collective wisdom.

 

 

It appears the ISO Regen uses this oscillator (Crystek CCHD-575) : http://www.crystek.com/crystal/spec-sheets/clock/CCHD-575.pdf

From the spec sheet : 

Frequency Range:12 MHz to 125 MHz*

Phase Jitter: (12kHz~80MHz) 82 fSec RMS Typical @ 100 MHz

 

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, timtom said:

Can't one stream directly from a music server such as a Mac or PC >  ISO REGEN > Dac? I've seen plenty of configurations described where there's no microRendu between a music server and the ISO REGEN and a few where there is.

 

Yes of course!  The majority of ISO REGEN (and USB REGEN) owners feed it directly from their computer, with the REGEN optimally positioned right at the input of their DAC.  

Don't let all these microRendu and other streamer users and their complicated chains distract you.  

 

And extra USB devices are not needed.  That is the whole point of the ISO REGEN: to unite galvanic isolation with highly optimized signal integrity (we spend a fortune in parts to go on both sides of this 4-layer board) and to put it right into your DAC.

ONE REGEN TO RULE THEM ALL as I say with tongue in cheek. 

 

 

[ted_b]

The microRendu (or any other renderer or network audio adapter) is not optional if one needs one.  You can't just remove it, you'd then have to compare the sound of another renderer in the mix, or another part of you signal path acting as a renderer (or NAA).  If you can just as well listen to hirez audio without having to have a physical renderer device in line, then by all means do it.....but your question above did not ask to compare those, it simply asked microRendu or none...which is not really vaild.

[timtom]

Just now, ted_b said:

The microRendu (or any other renderer or network audio adapter) is not optional if one needs one.  You can't just remove it, you'd then have to compare the sound of another renderer in the mix, or another part of you signal path acting as a renderer (or NAA).  If you can just as well listen to hirez audio without having to have a physical renderer device in line, then by all means do it.....but your question above did not ask to compare those, it simply asked microRendu or none...which is not really vaild.

Prior to adding a microRendu to my chain it was MacMini to Dac. I had no renderer. I heard music coming out of my speakers. So in my instance the microRendu was indeed optional.  I asked "Has anyone with a microRendu > ISO REGEN/LPS-1 in the chain..." "In the chain" is the operative phrase here. Does that clarify my question for you?

[timtom]

9 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Yes of course!  The majority of ISO REGEN (and USB REGEN) owners feed it directly from their computer, with the REGEN optimally positioned right at the input of their DAC.  

Don't let all these microRendu and other streamer users and their complicated chains distract you.  

 

And extra USB devices are not needed.  That is the whole point of the ISO REGEN: to unite galvanic isolation with highly optimized signal integrity (we spend a fortune in parts to go on both sides of this 4-layer board) and to put it right into your DAC.

ONE REGEN TO RULE THEM ALL as I say with tongue in cheek. 

 

 

Thanks Superdad. That's what I thought. Was actually distracted (or confused) by something else.  At some point will be interested in hearing this in my chain. Will start saving my $. Glad to read of your success and glad you made it through the speed bumps. Loving the innovation that's occurring with teams like yours, Sonore, Small Green Computer, Roon and HQPlayer. Keep up the great work!