ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[ingemar]

Hi all.

I'm using a lampi gg dac with my caps server and was thinking about to swapping my sotm pcie card and use the computers usb instead (sounds better in my ears)with a iso regen ,as i understand the iso needs the 5 volts to work,but the thing is that i don't need  the 5 v to the dac and i'm using a FTA usb cable without 5 v wire.So, can i use an adaptor like this and feed it with the 5 volts that is needed from my hdplex?And where can i find an adaptor like the image?

Kindly/Ingemar

[left channel]

["Nevermind..."]

[ingemar]

4 minutes ago, left channel said:

Hmm,this is from the users guide:ISO REGEN also requires 5 volt USB VBUS power—from the USB cable connected to its input—to power the upstream side of its special galvanic isolator chip.

The ISO REGEN is not powered via the USB line. Next to the USB jack is a power jack. You can feed it with your HDPLEX using a standard power cable terminated in a 5.5mm x 2.1mm plug.

 

 

[left channel]

Yes, sorry for my confusion @ingemar, you can supply that power via that adapter using a second output from your HDPLEX. But as the PC USB power never enters your DAC, I see no problem in just swapping in a standard USB cable if you ever need that output from your HDPLEX for something else. Then you'd have that FTA USB cable available for other projects.

[ingemar]

Thanks for your advice,but the fta stays,any ideas where i can find a adaptor or do i need to do some diy maybe

[Bdht]

Something like the ifi idefender would work.

[ingemar]

Ok,but is it as good as the iso?had a lock at the ifi thingy but it isn't what i need,but thanks anyway!

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, ingemar said:

So, can i use an adaptor like this and feed it with the 5 volts that is needed from my hdplex?And where can i find an adaptor like the image?

 

Here are a couple of choices for getting the 20mA of 5VBUS power to the ISO REGEN's input (just for the upstream side of its galvanic isolator chip--and even at this non-critical, "dirty-side" spot we dedicate an ultra-low-noise LT3042 regulator to change 5VBUS into 3.3V):

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/various-adapters/usb-b-adapter-cable-for-external-usb-a-power-supply-p-8389.html

 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/various-adapters/usb-b-adapter-cable-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

 

Your choice of the above depends upon if you want to use a spare USB port or a spare power supply port.

Just keep in mind that if you use a spare PS rail that has -VE output "ground" common with the PS rail you input to the downstream side of the ISO REGEN (its DC jack--which powers the 5 other regulators on the clean side--for the hub chip, clock, other side of isolator, and new 5VBUS output), then you will defeat the galvanic isolation.

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, Bdht said:

Something like the ifi idefender would work.

 

9 minutes ago, ingemar said:

Ok,but is it as good as the iso?had a lock at the ifi thingy but it isn't what i need,but thanks anyway!

 

I think he was suggesting the iDefender for use as a VBUS injector at the ISO REGEN's input.  For other technical reasons I would advise against it--can't promise how the ISO REGEN would behave if the iDefender tries to carry out its primary "ground-lift" purpose.  The VBUS injector cables I recommended will be cheaper and more reliable for you in this application.

[ingemar]

Thanks superdad,i'll use another psu for dc jack if that is possible or should i use both supplys from the hdplex?

[Bdht]

13 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

 

I think he was suggesting the iDefender for use as a VBUS injector at the ISO REGEN's input.  For other technical reasons I would advise against it--can't promise how the ISO REGEN would behave if the iDefender tries to carry out its primary "ground-lift" purpose.  The VBUS injector cables I recommended will be cheaper and more reliable for you in this application.

Thanks!  good to know, yes I suggested only for the power injection.  I'll bookmark your advice in case it comes up again ;]

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, ingemar said:

Thanks superdad,i'll use another psu for dc jack if that is possible or should i use both supplys from the hdplex?

 

Well as mentioned:

a) the quality of that 20mA of 5VBUS is not at all critical;

b) if the two outputs from the HDPEX that you use for the ISO REGEN (one at 5V, the other at 6-9V) share a common DC output "ground" then you are defeating the galvanic isolation feature of the ISO REGEN.  You can test by using a multimeter set to continuity "beep" mode and touching each probe to the -VE "ground" shells of the HDPLEX outputs you are considering using.  If the meter beeps then those PS outputs share a common ground and would NOT be ideal for your application.

[ingemar]

Okidoki and thanks again!

[Bdht]

Hello, I'm trying to decide the best setup for my 2nd rig with an iso regen.

Currently:
PC, Supra USB, Uptone USB Regen(powered by ifi ipower 9v), USPCB, Breeze DU-U8, optical cable, Audio-GD NFB-11. The NFB11 is on a Topaz 91092-12.

I took the ISO Regen from my main system and hooked it up to the NFB11, which has a builtin Amanero USB to i2s board, which I believe is powered by the dac/amps power supply. Immediately noticed a cleaner more detailed sound, and better rendering of the virtual loudspeaker presets in Out of Your Head(more spacious, better imaging, virtual speaker locations are further away). So I definitely want to add the iso regen to this system.

I have 2 power supplies I can use with the iso regen, the smps that came with the usb regen, and an ifi ipower 9v. The uptone smps seemed very detailed and maybe slightly fatiguing, the ifi ipower seemed less detailed and less fatiguing. Is there any reason for this or was it in my head? For what it's worth I tried my lps1.2 and it was both very detailed and non fatiguing.

Any suggestions? Thanks!

[ciccio1112]

Hello everyone, hi Superdad, I have a problem with L'iso regen and audiolinux. In practice, my dac is not detected with jlsound v3 con xmos . Sometimes randomly switching the dac off and on again and detaching the cable detects the dac. Everything works perfectly with win 10 and windows server 2016, tested both with a PC optimized with xeon that also with a nuc. What could it be? I've always known that the so regen is a transparent device to the operating system, but here it seems to be a problem with linux. Thanks. 

 

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, ciccio1112 said:

Hello everyone, hi Superdad, I have a problem with L'iso regen and audiolinux. In practice, my dac is not detected with jlsound v3 con xmos . Sometimes randomly switching the dac off and on again and detaching the cable detects the dac. Everything works perfectly with win 10 and windows server 2016, tested both with a PC optimized with xeon that also with a nuc. What could it be? I've always known that the so regen is a transparent device to the operating system, but here it seems to be a problem with linux. Thanks. 

 

Thats interesting @ciccio1112, I have a similar problem (Iso Regen and NUCs/AL), but it only started recently where my ISO regen will not allow connection to my DAC, (after running perfectly for a month or 2). Now, often when I switch on I have to mess with the IR until it shows up or just take it out of the chain.... anyone have any clues to what it might be - apart from the obvious , cables etc..

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, ciccio1112 said:

Hello everyone, hi Superdad, I have a problem with L'iso regen and audiolinux. In practice, my dac is not detected with jlsound v3 con xmos . Sometimes randomly switching the dac off and on again and detaching the cable detects the dac. Everything works perfectly with win 10 and windows server 2016, tested both with a PC optimized with xeon that also with a nuc. What could it be? I've always known that the so regen is a transparent device to the operating system, but here it seems to be a problem with linux. Thanks. 

 

Hi Ciccio:

Sorry to hear you are having some difficulty with the ISO REGEN and one of your configurations.

I and many others do use the ISO REGEN with NUCs running Audiolinux, so we know it is compatible.

There is a good chance that your issue has not to do with Audiolinux, but rather to do with the grounding and the particular computer and power systems you are using the ISO REGEN with when the problem occurs.

 

So as first test, please try putting the red switch of the ISO REGEN in the up ('ON') position and testing again.  Also, some computer/OS/DAC combinations--most often with Linux--will be particular about power-on sequence when using the ISO REGEN.  ISO REGEN functions as a USB hub, and recognition of it--and the DAC's own confirmation of connection back to computer--is not always dynamic and hot-swappable. 

 

Please let us know your experience after you place the switch in the up position and reconnect/repower everything.  We can then go from there.

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Thats interesting @ciccio1112, I have a similar problem (Iso Regen and NUCs/AL), but it only started recently where my ISO regen will not allow connection to my DAC, (after running perfectly for a month or 2). Now, often when I switch on I have to mess with the IR until it shows up or just take it out of the chain.... anyone have any clues to what it might be - apart from the obvious , cables etc..

 

Hi Patrick:

Well I know you are always making small changes of some sort to you system (), so it is really hard to say what the cause of your issue might be.  Based on our experience (over 1,000 ISO REGENs in the field), it is unlikely that your ISO REGEN has itself changed in some way.  They usually work or they don't.  So it seems more likely that you are having a mechanical contact or cable issue.  But if you suspect your ISO REGEN is failing then do contact me directly to discuss some tests and possible exchange.

Thanks,

--Alex

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Patrick:

Well I know you are always making small changes of some sort to you system (), so it is really hard to say what the cause of your issue might be.  Based on our experience (over 1,000 ISO REGENs in the field), it is unlikely that your ISO REGEN has itself changed in some way.  They usually work or they don't.  So it seems more likely that you are having a mechanical contact or cable issue.  But if you suspect your ISO REGEN is failing then do contact me directly to discuss some tests and possible exchange.

Thanks,

--Alex

Thanks Alex, yes I have been know to make the odd tweak 😎 however recently I have pretty much stopped messing around due to the excellent results pouring from the dual NUC/AL set up. Don’t know what to do with myself these days except listen to music ! 😂

 

The IR has been a trusted workhorse for a long time so I agree it’s probably  something to do with cables and connectors. One of  the connections into the IR is a bit loose due to all of the connecting/disconnecting. It’s not the first time I’ve broken a USB input ... I’ll let you know after further testing. 

 

Cheers Patrick. 

[tapatrick]

On 1/17/2019 at 7:48 PM, tapatrick said:

Thanks Alex, yes I have been know to make the odd tweak 😎 however recently I have pretty much stopped messing around due to the excellent results pouring from the dual NUC/AL set up. Don’t know what to do with myself these days except listen to music ! 😂

 

The IR has been a trusted workhorse for a long time so I agree it’s probably  something to do with cables and connectors. One of  the connections into the IR is a bit loose due to all of the connecting/disconnecting. It’s not the first time I’ve broken a USB input ... I’ll let you know after further testing. 

 

Cheers Patrick. 

Hi Alex @Superdad

Turns out my intermittent problem with my Iso Regen was because the traces under the USB B input over time had become loosened from the pcb. I have been using it between 2 NUCs with a USPCB in and out and due to the hard connections, and reconnections, the pressure was a bit much and damaged the board.

 

However, I managed to repair it miraculously with tiny silver wires soldered to the traces under the USB connector.

 

All good now and been working well for a few weeks (minus the USPCBs)

[ThenewGearPPK]

So the red switch has to be flipped up to the ON position to get the isolation? A little bit confused, because if you flip the switch down, it will be near the word "ISO".

 

The VBUS also has to be on the "On" position as well to work?  Or would there be a sonic benefit to have it on the "off" position. BTW how would you switch it, the switch doesn't seem to be able to be toggled at all?

[Bdht]

17 minutes ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

So the red switch has to be flipped up to the ON position to get the isolation? A little bit confused, because if you flip the switch down, it will be near the word "ISO".

 

The VBUS also has to be on the "On" position as well to work?  Or would there be a sonic benefit to have it on the "off" position. BTW how would you switch it, the switch doesn't seem to be able to be toggled at all?

On = isolation off

 

Not sure what vbus you're talking about.

[Superdad]

25 minutes ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

So the red switch has to be flipped up to the ON position to get the isolation? A little bit confused, because if you flip the switch down, it will be near the word "ISO".

 

For the ISO REGEN's red switch, the up ('ON') position defeats the galvanic isolation, while the down ('1') position has the isolation in effect.  

Why is it this (somewhat confusing) way?  Because the only single-position vertical mount DIP switch available is labeled that way.  For (single-pole) switches, ON is always with the two contacts closed (connected), and all we are doing to defeat the isolation is putting the switch across the "moat" of the separated ground planes--and turning the switch "ON" joins the two domains, thereby defeating the isolation.

 

Quote

The VBUS also has to be on the "On" position as well to work?  Or would there be a sonic benefit to have it on the "off" position. BTW how would you switch it, the switch doesn't seem to be able to be toggled at all?

 

The VBUS switch on the USPCB should stay in the ON position--the way it arrives. (that is the downward position of the tiny white switch—where it then forms a line with the two white painted dots on either side).  

Look closely and you will see that the switch can be toggled.  The tip of a pen or a pin can be used to move the center white bat of the switch.

 

It is a bit of a joke—and really only useful for use in determining if your DAC needs VBUS.  If it does, then you leave the switch on; If it does not use VBUS then well, what’s the point of tuning it off?  It is not like the 5V goes anywhere.  You are not even keeping it off a long USB cable (some people like that to reduce capacitive coupling to the data lines). 

Useful as horns on a bull (at least for us)!

[Ryelands]

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

If it does not use VBUS then well, what’s the point of tuning it off? 

 

If the target device is powered via the USB port but not by the device supplying the data, the switch is handy.

 

If, as I do, you use a DIY'd adapter to connect a LiFePO4 battery (or even an LPS-1 . . .) to the port. it is possible to connect both the host's +5v AND the battery.

 

OK, you need to be pretty dumb to do so but which of us has not done dumb things from time to time? By setting the switch to OFF, you reduce the chance of a potentially interesting error.

[Superdad]

36 minutes ago, Ryelands said:

By setting the switch to OFF, you reduce the chance of a potentially interesting error.

 

Well there you go! A use for the VBUS switch of our USPCB A>B Adatper besides just diagnostic.  

 

And nice to see you posting again here at AS/CA Ryelands.

--Alex C.

 

P.S.  "Potentially interesting error."   That's great; I do like PIE!