asdf1000 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 53 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said: When you do this the questions you have just asked should be obvious. Just remember the hot/neutral in the wall (or power strip) are always part of the loop and the safety ground MAY be part of the loop. Thanks John! Will do. Appreciate all your advice and patience. I better let you get back to the clocking testing gear. Link to comment
jamesg11 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Been meaning to do this ‘leakage loop’ graphic of my setup for a while - it would be very useful for a template sample to be posted ... /& I nominate Em!! I had a listening session today at a fellow audio enthusiast, along with several others - eyes instantly glazed on mention of smps running a dsp & leakage current ... asdf1000 1 macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs. Link to comment
Confused Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 29/03/2018 at 6:51 AM, jamesg11 said: Been meaning to do this ‘leakage loop’ graphic of my setup for a while - it would be very useful for a template sample to be posted ... /& I nominate Em!! I had a listening session today at a fellow audio enthusiast, along with several others - eyes instantly glazed on mention of smps running a dsp & leakage current ... 4 Actually, I think this is a very good idea. A template would be good, and I also think a couple of simple examples, one indicating good practice, one showing typical issues, that is one with a clear leakage loop issue. I am sure a lot of people would find this useful. Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
tboooe Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Hi gang, I picked an LPS-1.2 which I will be using to power my SU-1 and moving my existing LPS-1 to the IsoRegen. So my question is should I use the LPS-1 to power the IsoRegen or supply 5VDC to the USB input or both? Currently, I am using my HDPlex linear power supply for the IsoRegen and the USB 5VDC. Thank you. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, tboooe said: Hi gang, I picked an LPS-1.2 which I will be using to power my SU-1 and moving my existing LPS-1 to the IsoRegen. So my question is should I use the LPS-1 to power the IsoRegen or supply 5VDC to the USB input or both? Currently, I am using my HDPlex linear power supply for the IsoRegen and the USB 5VDC. Thank you. I’m trying more or less to investigate something similar myself. I’m not sure if the LPS-1.2 should power the UltraRendu or the SU-1 in my case. Meaning which should be replace one of the 3 LPS-1 I have. So so I ordered 2 LT3045 6 and 5 Volt from Dubai that shall be placed inside the SU-1. I’m hoping LPS-1 + LT3045 will equal one LPS-1.2 for my SU-1. If not, another LPS-1.2 should be ordered. (And probably another one for the switch) I suspect the last element in the chain, meaning the SU-1, should have the best PS. I hope to be able to verify this within a couple of weeks. lmitche 1 Link to comment
tboooe Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 hours ago, R1200CL said: I’m trying more or less to investigate something similar myself. I’m not sure if the LPS-1.2 should power the UltraRendu or the SU-1 in my case. Meaning which should be replace one of the 3 LPS-1 I have. So so I ordered 2 LT3045 6 and 5 Volt from Dubai that shall be placed inside the SU-1. I’m hoping LPS-1 + LT3045 will equal one LPS-1.2 for my SU-1. If not, another LPS-1.2 should be ordered. (And probably another one for the switch) I suspect the last element in the chain, meaning the SU-1, should have the best PS. I hope to be able to verify this within a couple of weeks. Yeah I should have listed another option which is to use either the LPS-1.2 or LPS-1 to power my Allo UsbBridge. I've already replaced the voltage regulators in my SU-1 so I hope the LPS-1.2 can still improve things. I am afriad you are right, I need to consider getting another 1.2 especially for the upcoming Uptone switch. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
R1200CL Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 20 hours ago, tboooe said: I am afriad you are right, I need to consider getting another 1.2 especially for the upcoming Uptone switch. When my LPS-1.2 arrived I first powered my Cisco SG100D-08 with it. Sound changed to the better. So I have great expectations to The Audio Switch (TAS?) It’s a bit strange that a just a god switch with a LPS-1 or a LPS-1.2 makes quite huge difference is SQ. One have to try in order to believe. I have 3 new unopened Netgear FS105 for sale very cheap if anyone like to give it a try. Link to comment
sbenyo Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I have just switched from a Teradak PSU to LPS-1 for my ISO REGEN. The change was immediate. The sound is now crystal clear, brighter and much more transparent and accurate. It also sounds more airy. In addition the darker, heavier sound I had before is now gone. I still have to get used to it as the clear sound emphasizes the mids and highs. The bass is much more controlled. The only drawback I can see is that the sound in some recording can be a bit too bright. Bass is also less emphasized than I want it to be. Some of the "warmth" the sound had before is a bit missing. I am going to try and replace the USB cable as well. I hope this will improve the sound in the areas I am missing now. Bottom line is that it's a very surprising improvement with significant SQ enhancements. It is definitely the way to use ISO REGEN, otherwise the benefit from it is lacking. Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 When the IsoRegen is in the chain with Libreelec Kodi 17.6 in and Intel NUC, sound stops when I switch between Exodus and PSVue. It doesn't happen every time but very often. I can restore audio by dropping power, disconnecting and reconnecting the usb cable, or reinstalling my RUR in place of the Uptone. I have tried the ground switch and grounding the usb output to no avail. The Recovery is rock solid in place of the IsoRegen. Any ideas? Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 3 hours ago, bds3151 said: When the IsoRegen is in the chain with Libreelec Kodi 17.6 in and Intel NUC, sound stops when I switch between Exodus and PSVue. It doesn't happen every time but very often. I can restore audio by dropping power, disconnecting and reconnecting the usb cable, or reinstalling my RUR in place of the Uptone. I have tried the ground switch and grounding the usb output to no avail. The Recovery is rock solid in place of the IsoRegen. Any ideas? Not surprising. LibreELEC, being a Linux variant, does not support "hot-swapping" of USB hubs, so connection is lost when you switch inputs. The original USB REGEN and the W4S Recovery cheat a bit as far as the USB VBUS standard--in that both devices maintain 5VBUS output regardless of computer-side status, and their USB2.0 hub chips are not changing state much. The ISO REGEN on the other hand, with its USB3.1 hub chip and Silanna isolator before it, must conform more closely to USB-spec standards for VBUS turn-on and overall state conditions (it's complicated, and even I get confused when John tries to explain it to me, hence my less than precise explanation/translation). If I recall, the solution is either to just power of/on the ISO REGEN, or have everything powered up and reboot the Linux box. Plugging/unplugging of USB cables should not be required. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just so I this is clear, I'm switching between add ons in Kodi and not physically changing inputs. So this is a Linux issue that the OS is not usb 3 compatible ? Not much of a "solution" to reboot every time or power off devices. Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, bds3151 said: Just so I this is clear, I'm switching between add ons in Kodi and not physically changing inputs. So this is a Linux issue that the OS is not usb 3 compatible ? Not much of a "solution" to reboot every time or power off devices. Oh, I thought you were switching sources or something with hardware. I really don't know Linux well or what might be going on in s/w to interrupt the connection. Still likely some interruption during the s/w change. Some DACs are quite sensitive to that and will drop the connection. What DAC are you using? UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I tried it with two, Modi multibit and a Mojo, both drop out. I also have a usb/spdif converter in the mix (DXIO Pro 3x). I also tried another NUC with Win10 that is rock solid with the same configuration so it looks like you are correct with the problem being the OS (Libreelec). I wonder though if it may be hardware related with the Libreelec NUC as it only has 3.0 usb ports. The Win 10 has a combination of 2.0/3.0 with the DAC being plugged into a 2.0 port. Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, bds3151 said: I wonder though if it may be hardware related with the Libreelec NUC as it only has 3.0 usb ports. The Win 10 has a combination of 2.0/3.0 with the DAC being plugged into a 2.0 port. Nah, I think it is a Linux s/w thing... But keep experimenting and let us know what you figure out. Thanks, --Alex C. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I tried it with two, Modi multibit and a Mojo, both drop out. I also have a usb/spdif converter in the mix (DXIO Pro 3x). I also tried another NUC with Win10 that is rock solid with the same configuration so it looks like you are correct with the problem being the OS (Libreelec). I wonder though if it may be hardware related with the Libreelec NUC as it only has 3.0 usb ports. The Win 10 has a combination of 2.0/3.0 with the DAC being plugged into a 2.0 port. Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The dropouts continued with Win10. Well, the solution to this issue was simple, drop the input voltage to 5.5v. I was feeding it 8v and apparently the heat was causing the TPS7A4700 in the Iso to protection mode. darkless 1 Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 6 hours ago, bds3151 said: The dropouts continued with Win10. Well, the solution to this issue was simple, drop the input voltage to 5.5v. I was feeding it 8v and apparently the heat was causing the TPS7A4700 in the Iso to protection mode. Very glad to hear that you got it working well. But I am not sure that I agree with your diagnosis of the cause. While the Mojo does draw some USB 5VBUS power, I don't think the Modi draws much. And even with VBUS current being drawn from the ISO REGEN, we have had no problems with it being powered with up to 9V (though at 9V with a DAC drawing a LOT of VBUS current the ISO REGEN will run quiet warm/hot). The TI TPS7A4700 is a 1 amp regulator, so you could not be remotely near putting it into overcurrent protection mode. Cheers, --Alex C. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Alex, a few more things are in the chain and the Mojo has a separate power connection. There is a small DXIO PRO3Z DDC, iDefender and iFi iPurifier drawing some current but it still should be ok with a 1amp regulator, or so I thought. Regardless, it was getting hot to the touch at 8v (I believe it's thermal protection not overcurrent that's being triggered) and the dropouts were occurring only after warm up. I measured the current draw at 250 ma. Looking at the specs of the TPS, it's 1 amp with some restrictions. It needs a fairly large heat sink (a 6" square plate I think was specified). I don't think there is any attachment to the case on the Iso so I believe it's correct to say there is minimal or no sink. The ability to deliver current and stay within the operating range drops off quickly without a sink per a graph I found. I assume it's possible I just have a defective unit that can't deliver the power without tripping the protection. Alex, I am curious about how other Iso's would react to a 250 ma draw and dropping 3vdc. It takes a while to heat up, so mine takes maybe 30-40 min or more before it trips. Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Sorry, but you are incorrect about the regulator. The PCB and the case are the heatsink for it. We have tested the ISO REGEN, powered by 9V, powering the 100% bus-powered iFi micro iDSD DAC/headphone amp (a 480mA VBUS draw)--with 768kHz audio data running through a USB analyzer for 3 hours--with zero bits dropped. I can send you photos of the set up. If you feel that your unit is defective, you are welcome to return it to us for testing. Please contact us directly to arrange such. Thanks, --Alex C. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Ok thanks Alex. I thought the regulator was pc board mounted? The spec sheet says the sink has to be in contact with the plate on the back of the regulator? Anyway, mine is now working fine and sounding great for several days now. Thanks again for a great product. Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, bds3151 said: Anyway, mine is now working fine and sounding great for several days now. Happy to hear that! 19 minutes ago, bds3151 said: Thanks again for a great product. You are most welcome--and thank you. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
paulmckwan Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Superdad said: Very glad to hear that you got it working well. But I am not sure that I agree with your diagnosis of the cause. While the Mojo does draw some USB 5VBUS power, I don't think the Modi draws much. And even with VBUS current being drawn from the ISO REGEN, we have had no problems with it being powered with up to 9V (though at 9V with a DAC drawing a LOT of VBUS current the ISO REGEN will run quiet warm/hot). The TI TPS7A4700 is a 1 amp regulator, so you could not be remotely near putting it into overcurrent protection mode. Cheers, --Alex C. I once have my LPS-1.2 set to 9v to ISO Regen by mistake, after ~30min, the sound become highly distorted. I change it back to 7v immediately and it resumed normal. My ISO Regen input is connected to NUC, output is connected to Mutec mc-3+ USB. Link to comment
Popular Post JohnSwenson Posted April 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 11, 2018 9 hours ago, bds3151 said: Ok thanks Alex. I thought the regulator was pc board mounted? The spec sheet says the sink has to be in contact with the plate on the back of the regulator? Anyway, mine is now working fine and sounding great for several days now. Thanks again for a great product. The regulator has a large thermal "pad" on the underside of the case, this is the primary method for getting heat out of the regulator. The board has an equivalent copper pad under the chip with a whole bunch of vias. These vias transfer the heat to a significantly larger copper pad on the bottom of the board. We have a special high thermal conductivity pad between the bottom of the board and the inside of the case. This connection makes a very good thermal connection from the die in the chip to the case. The entire case IS the heatsink. We spent a lot of time working on this thermal solution, it is done very well. John S. pas, beautiful music and bds3151 1 2 Link to comment
bds3151 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 John, thanks for explaining this. The case does seem to heat quite a bit, even at lower voltages. After two days of operating fine, the sound dropouts have returned. I think there might be another issue with compatibility between something in the NUC/Iso/iDefender/iFi Purifier/DXIO Pro3z/Mojo chain and the Iso. When I remove the Iso and replace it with RUR, the dropouts go away. If I take the Iso to my office system which uses a NUC/Iso/iFi iPurifier2/Schiit EITR/Schiit Dac, the dropouts go away. I assumed it was a heat problem because the Iso was hot and the dropouts got further apart when I lowered the input voltage. Tough figuring this one out. I may just keep it in the office system. Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, bds3151 said: After two days of operating fine, the sound dropouts have returned. This should not be happening. Please contact me regarding an exchange. We really would prefer not to turn this thread into an individual support correspondence location. Thanks. —Alex C. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
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