ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, RamDawg said:

Alex- is there a longer replacement cord for the one between the ISO Regen and the LPS 1 so I can move the LPS 1 further from my devises?  My LPS 1 that powers my IR is now sitting on my small desk along with my Concero HD dac and Schiit Jot. It seems the LPS 1 may be causing some interference making my headphones way brighter than normal. I cannot move the LPS 1 off of my desk with the lack of cord length and where the IR is positioned now. Please advise.  I am powering the Concert HD with a aqvox USB power supply.  I am running the power from the LPS 1 to the IR at 5V now after the aqvox install. I also have the galvanic iso off at the IR. This never has never worked in my system for any longer than 30 minutes before losing signal. 

 

Hi Paul:

 

While we offer (not on our web site yet) our Oyaide/Belden 15awg star-quad shielded DC cables, the 1.5m length we stock always has a 5.5mm x 2.5mm plug at at least one end (for JS-2)($75).  The one we stock with 5.5mm x 2.1mm plugs both ends is just 50cm (20-inches, $70)--shorter than the 27-inch stock 16awg coax cord you have.

Ghent Audio in China offers a DC Cable made with lighter gauge Canare star-quad and the lighter Oyaide plugs--and they sell a 1.5m length at a very reasonable price (http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc01.html).

 

Another way to go would be to get some of these screw-terminal>barrel CCTV DC plugs (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ER6QWAY) and some 16-18awg per conductor wire pairs and make your own to whatever length you wish.

 

With regards to being able to use the ISO REGEN with galvanic isolation activated, please send me a message--through our web site contact page please--with some details of your system: Computer>USB cable>ISO REGEN>DAC>Preamp.  

I suspect you either need to do some additional grounding, or that your Aqvox USB power injector is somehow making the GI difficult.  Have you tried setting the LPS-1 to 7V and letting the ISO REGEN's 5VBUS output power your DAC?

 

Also, you mention the Schiit Jotunheim.  I am guessing you are not using it with its USB DAC input module (likely the Concero HD is a much better DAC).

 

We'll get this sorted out for you!

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[RamDawg]

Thanks Alex for your rapid response!  Yes I'm using the Concero HD with a pair of audioquest Water RCAs to the Jot. Schiity's on board dac.. no bueno..

 

Thanks for the links. I will purchase a 1.5M cord from China. This will allow me to isolate the LPS 1 far enough away from my setup.

 

I've had issues with the IR's galvanic isolation since purchase. To be honest, can't really tell a difference with it off especially now with the Aqvox power supply in place powering the dac. Not an electrical engineer here but isn't this providing GI by default from the IR?

 

Also, I had read in this forum that if the dac is powered separately from the USB connection to the IR (which the Aqvox unit provides), the LPS 1 can be set to 5V to power the IR. With testing even the 3.3V setting is powering the IR. Please advise what's optimal with my setup. I just switched back to 7V for the time being. 

 

Thanks again for your help and guidance!

 

Paul F.

 

[sdube]

On 2/24/2018 at 4:28 PM, Superdad said:

 

Nice set-up Saurabh!   

Very glad to know that things are working well for you.

--Alex C. 

Golly, the drop-outs came back after I switched the amplifier onto its separate, dedicated circuit (itself occasioned by the Audience Power Conditioner tripping again and again):  first I switched the isolation off of course, but since this morning have it back on again: only two failures in over an hour. Might try the grounding trick again. (And as discussed about to send you a message, too, Alex.)

 

[Superdad]

14 hours ago, RamDawg said:

Also, I had read in this forum that if the dac is powered separately from the USB connection to the IR (which the Aqvox unit provides), the LPS 1 can be set to 5V to power the IR. With testing even the 3.3V setting is powering the IR. Please advise what's optimal with my setup. I just switched back to 7V for the time being. 

 

7 volts is fine.

[Superdad]

37 minutes ago, sdube said:

Golly, the drop-outs came back after I switched the amplifier onto its separate, dedicated circuit (itself occasioned by the Audience Power Conditioner tripping again and again):  first I switched the isolation off of course, but since this morning have it back on again: only two failures in over an hour. Might try the grounding trick again.

 

Saurabh:  Given all the various electrical issues you seem to have had at your location (power conditioner tripping?) over the years, and the sensitivity  of your Berkeley Alpha USB (if I recall), I am not sure that reliably running the ISO REGEN with full galvanic isolation will ever be possible for you.  Very sorry about that, but you can still enjoy its benefits as an über-REGEN. 

[rickca]

1 hour ago, sdube said:

the drop-outs came back

Have you ever tried running without your Audience unit plugged in?  Just as an experiment?

[sdube]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Saurabh:  Given all the various electrical issues you seem to have had at your location (power conditioner tripping?) over the years, and the sensitivity  of your Berkeley Alpha USB (if I recall), I am not sure that reliably running the ISO REGEN with full galvanic isolation will ever be possible for you.  Very sorry about that, but you can still enjoy its benefits as an über-REGEN. 

Thanks again, Alex. The power conditioner was not really tripping: just switching off; likely, it was the amp drawing too much current, since after plugging the latter into a separate circuit, there have been no problems there. The GI did function once, with your grinding trick, but then started misbehaving after I put a second hard-adapter from the ISO Regen to the Berkeley Alpha USB. Later, without the grounding, the GI functioned again, till the latest changes. And so, I am going to try the grounding measure again, but need someone with skills to do it: I am clunky and clumsy!

[sdube]

37 minutes ago, rickca said:

Have you ever tried running without your Audience unit plugged in?  Just as an experiment?

Thanks: I could get the JS-2 that feeds my Mac Mini and the LPS-1 off the Audience. Is that what you meant? Not possible to get the Audience out completely, 'fraid.

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, sdube said:

Thanks: I could get the JS-2 that feeds my Mac Mini and the LPS-1 off the Audience. Is that what you meant? Not possible to get the Audience out completely, 'fraid.

If the LPS-1 plugged into the Audience is powering your ISO REGEN, it may be worth a try.  But I was suggesting running without the Audience altogether just to see how that might affect your dropouts.  I suspected that would not be possible.  I don't mean to say anything bad about Audience, this is just troubleshooting.

[sdube]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

If the LPS-1 plugged into the Audience is powering your ISO REGEN, it may be worth a try.  But I was suggesting running without the Audience altogether just to see how that might affect your dropouts.  I suspected that would not be possible.  I don't mean to say anything bad about Audience, this is just troubleshooting.

Thanks again. I have the JS-2 -- that feeds the LPS-1 (into the Iso-Regen) as well as my Mac Mini -- plugged into the Audience. Alex was agnostic about the effect of the Audience on the JS 2. And I may try getting it off the Audience. But, for the moment, I have managed to ground the Iso-Regen. Pleased as punch, and proud too. Music is much more compelling, which leads me to think (finger's crossed, several times) that the drop-outs will stop. The thing is that with Iso_Regen on GI without grounding the problem is not just with the drop-outs, but that the SQ declines. 

 

 

 

[JohnSwenson]

19 hours ago, sdube said:

Thanks again. I have the JS-2 -- that feeds the LPS-1 (into the Iso-Regen) as well as my Mac Mini -- plugged into the Audience. Alex was agnostic about the effect of the Audience on the JS 2. And I may try getting it off the Audience. But, for the moment, I have managed to ground the Iso-Regen. Pleased as punch, and proud too. Music is much more compelling, which leads me to think (finger's crossed, several times) that the drop-outs will stop. The thing is that with Iso_Regen on GI without grounding the problem is not just with the drop-outs, but that the SQ declines. 

 

 

 

The isolation in the ISO REGEN is designed to block leakage currents from a computer's power supply from getting into the DAC. If this path doesn't exist (no SMPS on your source) then the isolation is not needed. The IR is still much better sounding than the original REGEN due to much lower jitter clock and better voltage regulation, so even with isolation turned off it still sound significantly better.

 

There is also a generic problem with isolation, IF the whole rest of the system is galvanically isolated the whole system can move up and down, which can cause the clicks and pops. If this is the case it is best to ground the system at exactly ONE location. There is no one generic solution, it depends on your system and how it is connected.

 

So with the isolation turned on you can be blocking leakage, but then isolating the whole system which then needs grounding somewhere.

 

John S.

[sdube]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

The isolation in the ISO REGEN is designed to block leakage currents from a computer's power supply from getting into the DAC. If this path doesn't exist (no SMPS on your source) then the isolation is not needed. The IR is still much better sounding than the original REGEN due to much lower jitter clock and better voltage regulation, so even with isolation turned off it still sound significantly better.

 

There is also a generic problem with isolation, IF the whole rest of the system is galvanically isolated the whole system can move up and down, which can cause the clicks and pops. If this is the case it is best to ground the system at exactly ONE location. There is no one generic solution, it depends on your system and how it is connected.

 

So with the isolation turned on you can be blocking leakage, but then isolating the whole system which then needs grounding somewhere.

 

John S.

Thanks much; shall bear all this in mind. At the moment, with the Iso Regen GI turned on while the unit is grounded -- following Alex's procedure -- all seems to be working well, and sounding better than the with GI switched off. 

[simonp]

Review from Hans van Beekhuyzen;

 

[afrancois]

28 minutes ago, simonp said:

Review from Hans van Beekhuyzen;

 

I'm using the sMS-200 ultra in combination with the ISO Regen for quite some time now. Very satisfied.

[Excommunication]

I have a problem with my ISO REGEN. Whenever I have the IR connected to my microRendu to feed either my Devialet or my Mutec MC-3+ USB, Roon does not identify the microRendu as an end point. Without the IR in the chain, sometimes Roon is a bit shaky and is not finding the MR, but a restart of Roon identifies my microRendu quickly. However whenever the microRendu is feeding the IR, it looses contact with Roon within ~6 hours, so for a session of listening the dropout is not a problem. But the next playing session I need to switch on my Devialet, select USB-input, and after that remove the power from my microRendu, and then insert the power cable to the microRendu, wait, and then have it shown up in Roon. It feels like the IR is in the middle meddling and not always having the contact between the MR and the DAC. On the fault returnred IR unit I ran from the computer, and in those cases it was also a bit flaky to identify the DAC. 

 

The reason I am writing in the Iso Regen thread and not the microRendu-thread, at Devialet Chat or Roon Forum is because I think the culprit is the IR. I can extract the log files and send to Roon for review, but all it says is that it can´t find the MR and quits reconnecting. I thought that the MR could be the culprit, but I also read somewhat that the MR needs to see the DAC, and I assume the IR prevents that seeing. I have had my IR exchanged from a faulty early prodution unit to one from around november, so it should not be related to early production errors. I have also upgraded the FW on the MR 1.3 to FW 2.5 just becasue I thought it would fix the problem. I have upgraded Roon to all new versions since joining, but the problem persists. A soft resart in the MR GUI, is also not helping. I have also changed the closest router from my D-Link 868L to a Netgear GS108GE.

 

I recently bought the Mutec MC-3+ to convert the MR USB-signal into the high grade AES/EBU-signal on the XLR input on the Devialet, and I was about to ditch the IR, when I noticed the Hans Beekhuyzen review (which I promised myself to wait for before moving on without the IR). Now I am not that sure if I want to remove it from the chain, but that means I need to get an answer if I have problem with the Roon not identifying MR after a while. Who is the culprit, Roon, MR or IR?

[afrancois]

43 minutes ago, Excommunication said:

I have a problem with my ISO REGEN. Whenever I have the IR connected to my microRendu to feed either my Devialet or my Mutec MC-3+ USB, Roon does not identify the microRendu as an end point. Without the IR in the chain, sometimes Roon is a bit shaky and is not finding the MR, but a restart of Roon identifies my microRendu quickly. However whenever the microRendu is feeding the IR, it looses contact with Roon within ~6 hours, so for a session of listening the dropout is not a problem. But the next playing session I need to switch on my Devialet, select USB-input, and after that remove the power from my microRendu, and then insert the power cable to the microRendu, wait, and then have it shown up in Roon. It feels like the IR is in the middle meddling and not always having the contact between the MR and the DAC. On the fault returnred IR unit I ran from the computer, and in those cases it was also a bit flaky to identify the DAC. 

 

The reason I am writing in the Iso Regen thread and not the microRendu-thread, at Devialet Chat or Roon Forum is because I think the culprit is the IR. I can extract the log files and send to Roon for review, but all it says is that it can´t find the MR and quits reconnecting. I thought that the MR could be the culprit, but I also read somewhat that the MR needs to see the DAC, and I assume the IR prevents that seeing. I have had my IR exchanged from a faulty early prodution unit to one from around november, so it should not be related to early production errors. I have also upgraded the FW on the MR 1.3 to FW 2.5 just becasue I thought it would fix the problem. I have upgraded Roon to all new versions since joining, but the problem persists. A soft resart in the MR GUI, is also not helping. I have also changed the closest router from my D-Link 868L to a Netgear GS108GE.

 

I recently bought the Mutec MC-3+ to convert the MR USB-signal into the high grade AES/EBU-signal on the XLR input on the Devialet, and I was about to ditch the IR, when I noticed the Hans Beekhuyzen review (which I promised myself to wait for before moving on without the IR). Now I am not that sure if I want to remove it from the chain, but that means I need to get an answer if I have problem with the Roon not identifying MR after a while. Who is the culprit, Roon, MR or IR?

I have a similar issue. My chain is an sMS-200Ultra->IR->MC3+ USB. Just make sure that everything is powered up and then power up the IR. The dropout after 6 hours could be due to the galvanic isolation. I have never had a problem with the galvanic isolation of the IR.

[Frojo]

I have a similar issue as well- audirvana3/macmini-> gs108->ultraRendu-> IR->Chord Hugo, all permanently powered.

After an evenings listening session, when i return the next evening, Audirvana has 'lost' the ultraRendu connection and has reverted to 'computer output'. I have to reboot the uR in order to establish the link. I have been pondering about the cause, but hadn't concluded that the IR might be the culprit.... Will try switching GI off and /or grounding the IR's usb out (vague recollection of a possible 'static' issue)

Any other ideas welcome

[Superdad]

On 3/16/2018 at 11:10 AM, Excommunication said:

I have a problem with my ISO REGEN. Whenever I have the IR connected to my microRendu to feed either my Devialet or my Mutec MC-3+ USB, Roon does not identify the microRendu as an end point. Without the IR in the chain, sometimes Roon is a bit shaky and is not finding the MR, but a restart of Roon identifies my microRendu quickly. However whenever the microRendu is feeding the IR, it looses contact with Roon within ~6 hours, so for a session of listening the dropout is not a problem. But the next playing session I need to switch on my Devialet, select USB-input, and after that remove the power from my microRendu, and then insert the power cable to the microRendu, wait, and then have it shown up in Roon. It feels like the IR is in the middle meddling and not always having the contact between the MR and the DAC. On the fault returnred IR unit I ran from the computer, and in those cases it was also a bit flaky to identify the DAC. 

 

Hi:

Leaving aside that microRendu does not support "hot-swapping" of USB hubs--meaning the hub (ISO REGEN) must be present and powered on at the time the microRendu boots--let's look at some angles.

 

Duesto the strange vagaries of providing true galvanic isolation with USB (and the Silanna isolator chip we use is not 100%perfect),

it is likely that you have a mild grounding issue in your system (not uncommon).  It is a bit challenging to explain—but sometimes easy to fix once identified--so please let’s just start by putting the red switch of the ISO REGEN into the up (“ON”) position and then letting it play for a while.  I think you will find that stoppage/disconnection will cease.

Please try that and report back.  If you would like more detail—as well as a look at what I suggest (to allow you to put the switch back in the full isolation position assuming you find that defeating it works), then you can read this post:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31877-iso-regen-listening-impressions-kicked-off-with-some-measurements/?do=findComment&comment=714912

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.
 

[Excommunication]

Once I switched the switch to 1, the microRendu was immediately identified by Roon, no hazzle back and forth to get it seen. Once switched back to ISO I tried to take a lead from my grounding point at my Devialet to the other part of the USB receptacle from the downstream USB of the IR, but microRendu did not show up in Roon. Perhaps I need to ground it at the Mutec to get it working.

[simonp]

7 hours ago, Excommunication said:

Once I switched the switch to 1, the microRendu was immediately identified by Roon, no hazzle back and forth to get it seen. Once switched back to ISO I tried to take a lead from my grounding point at my Devialet to the other part of the USB receptacle from the downstream USB of the IR, but microRendu did not show up in Roon. Perhaps I need to ground it at the Mutec to get it working.

Which usb cable do you  use with the microrendu and the iso regen?

[Excommunication]

I use QED Reference USB between the microRendu and the Iso Regen, but I have also used a Nordost Blue Heaven, both 1m from the Iso Regen to DAC/ Reclocker I use the USPCB A>B.

[simonp]

1 hour ago, Excommunication said:

I use QED Reference USB between the microRendu and the Iso Regen, but I have also used a Nordost Blue Heaven, both 1m from the Iso Regen to DAC/ Reclocker I use the USPCB A>B.

Try to change the uspcb with the QED. 

[Excommunication]

It is being identified immediately in Roon, no hassle. Why is that? I just ordered a USPCB extra if I would sell the Iso Regen. I wonder if was the new short distance between the MR and IR that was the problem. I will try the extra USPCB in series äfter the IR, if I get it before I have sold it.

[simonp]

The uspcb works perfect between the rendu and the iso regen.  Some people use the Lush usb cable after the iso regen, I have made my own Lush cable. Strange but changing a usb cable have affected the sq. 

[Excommunication]

Unbelievable. I set the Roon playing first overnight, then when I left for work at 7:00 this morning I started a files playlist (not to interrupt my daily Tidal-access from work). I come home almost 15 hours later and the music is still playing (simultaneously breaking in my Mutec and Mogami XLR). I hope I will get my additional USPCB soon. This is a keeper, as the last dealbreaker is gone, if this good performance continues. simonp thanks for the tip, not that my cotton ears will hear that difference with switching sides with the cable, but I want to enhance to the point wherever (others hear differences) possible, and then one day I look back and notice the difference.