ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

Idea. If i put USPCB on the end of USB extenion cord do i have a perfectly terminated 90ohm USB cable?

 

Sorry, but it does not work that way.  The USPCB A>B Adapter is a passive device--really just a carefully done 4-layer circuit board--that is a substitute for a cable.  Its characteristic 90 ohms impedance exists when it is the entire connection terminating two active devices.  Attaching or soldering another cable to it makes that other cable--and its electrical properties--part of the circuit.  So the USB will do nothing for that.

[RickyV]

Thanks Super D,

so it works only when both sides of the USPCB is pluged into a computer, a usb hub or a DAC. 

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, RickyV said:

so it works only when both sides of the USPCB is pluged into a computer, a usb hub or a DAC. 

 

That is correct.

 

Have a pleasant weekend!

 

--Alex C.

 

P.S.  I am still coming to terms with the sudden passing this week of Charles Hansen, founder of Ayre Acoustics.  He and I were friendly over the course of more than two decades, and would chat on the phone or at audio shows at least once or twice a year.  He was a good man--who put up with a great deal of pain since a cycling accident many years ago left him paralyzed from the waist down.  I don't know the recent circumstances but do know that he was deteriorating.

So please all: value life, friendships, and family...  And enjoy the music while it lasts.

[FIndingit]

Be careful with that USPCB adapter, it does not tolerate much weight. I had my ISO Regen hanging in the air and developed contact problems. Some resoldering on the a plug side seems to have fixed it. 

[audiojerry]

Sorry to hear about Charles. I did not know about his accident or his condition. Thank you for sharing. 

[CharlieMB]

I'd like to report a very positive experience with the ISO REGEN.

 

Wow!...  Inserting the ISO REGEN into my chain with the provided power adapter and the included "USPCB" USB A>B adapter has made a world of difference in sound quality.

 

This report comes after only two nights of listening.  Two nights is not normally long enough for a listening impression but the improvement is not subtle at all and worth reporting.

 

I clearly hear more details in the music, extended highs, more realism; everything is more palpable.  The instruments are closer and more spread out in the room and they are truer sounding. 

 

I had planned on getting the follow-on product to the original REGEN for a long time.  I delayed because prefer simplicity and have been  avoiding the extra components and especially an additional power cord and power supply.  I can easily say now that it is well worth the extra components.

 

I'm also very happy with fast shipping.  I ordered it Wednesday of this week with two day shipping and it arrived overnight, much faster than expected.    Hats off!  

 

Many thanks to Alex Crespi for a fine product.

[satfrat]

1 hour ago, BWeaveit said:

I'd like to report a very positive experience with the ISO REGEN.

 

Wow!...  Inserting the ISO REGEN into my chain with the provided power adapter and the included "USPCB" USB A>B adapter has made a world of difference in sound quality.

 

This report comes after only two nights of listening.  Two nights is not normally long enough for a listening impression but the improvement is not subtle at all and worth reporting.

 

I clearly hear more details in the music, extended highs, more realism; everything is more palpable.  The instruments are closer and more spread out in the room and they are truer sounding. 

 

I had planned on getting the follow-on product to the original REGEN for a long time.  I delayed because prefer simplicity and have been  avoiding the extra components and especially an additional power cord and power supply.  I can easily say now that it is well worth the extra components.

 

I'm also very happy with fast shipping.  I ordered it Wednesday of this week with two day shipping and it arrived overnight, much faster than expected.    Hats off!  

 

Many thanks to Alex Crespi for a fine product.

Did you also spring for the LPS-1 power supply or are you using the Meanwell SMPS? I'm hoping to upgrade my Regen & Meanwell come tax return time in a few months with both the IsoRegen and the LPS-1. 

About the only plus I've found in not currently being able to afford this upgrade is when I do finally place an order, there will be no wait!

[CharlieMB]

18 minutes ago, satfrat said:

Did you also spring for the LPS-1 power supply or are you using the Meanwell SMPS?

 

Not yet.  The goal is complete isolation so I like the idea of a simple 6-cell pack of Eneloop AAs (NiMH) yielding 7.2 volts.  I've got plenty of them lying around already.  I can attempt this because I know the load of my DAC is light as seen from the 5V USB input.  My DAC is the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse.

[Matias]

1 hour ago, BWeaveit said:

 

Not yet.  The goal is complete isolation so I like the idea of a simple 6-cell pack of Eneloop AAs (NiMH) yielding 7.2 volts.  I've got plenty of them lying around already.  I can attempt this because I know the load of my DAC is light as seen from the 5V USB input.  My DAC is the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse.

Read my test below:

 

[CharlieMB]

Thanks Matias

[audiojerry]

I'd like to comment on my  impressions of my recently purchased PS Audio DirectStream Junior dac with ISO Regen and LPS-1 followed by some questions for others who are currently using the DirectStream Junior (DSJ).

First off, I cannot believe how amazingly good this combination of devices sounds. I thought my system was already sounding great with my existing dac with the IR and LPS-1, but the transformation was...transformational. While my OPPO Sonica dac represented a significant step up in sound quality for me, I was still aware of a slightly digital signature on my music, which for me was manifested in a kind of low grade aural irritation resulting in listener fatigue over time.  This irritation has always overlaid and degraded my enjoyment of music for as long as I've been listening to cd's and now, streaming digital files, In recent years i've discovered new equipment that brought about wonderful improvements to my digital playback.  The DSJ seems to have finally rid my music of any digital signature, and I am now able to completely relax and enjoy my music.

I still consider myself a newbie when it comes to computer audio, but this website has been a tremendous aid in helping me learn and discover how great computer audio can sound. So now I have some questions for anyone familiar with the DirectSound Network Bridge II.

The advisors on PS Audio suggest that the Network Bridge is the best way to source music from an NAS to the DSJ  Bridge because the Bridge employs i2s, whcih separates  the clock from the signal path.  This method seems to obviate the need for the IR and LPS-1 because a usb cable isn't involved.  Am I off the mark here? 

I find it hard to believe that I'm losing anything in sound quality by running my usb cable into my IR/LPS-1/USPCB.  Does anyone have experience using both types of input with the DSJ?  
 

[Speed Racer]

I should be getting my PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Network Bridge II installed on Thursday. I will be using both the Network Bridge II and ultraRendu/Teddy Pardo/Phasure Lush USB cable as Roon endpoints feeding the DirectStream DAC. 

 

My real hope is that the Network Bridge II sounds as good or better than coming via USB. Someone whose ears I respect a lot told me that he heard no difference using the Network Bridge II versus feeding the DirectStream using I2S. Someone here told me something different. We'll see.....

 

If all works as I want it to, I will be selling my Yggdrasil, ultraRendu, Teddy Pardo PS, and Lush cable.....

[thyname]

5 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

I should be getting my PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Network Bridge II installed on Thursday. I will be using both the Network Bridge II and ultraRendu/Teddy Pardo/Phasure Lush USB cable as Roon endpoints feeding the DirectStream DAC. 

 

My real hope is that the Network Bridge II sounds as good or better than coming via USB. Someone whose ears I respect a lot told me that he heard no difference using the Network Bridge II versus feeding the DirectStream using I2S. Someone here told me something different. We'll see.....

 

If all works as I want it to, I will be selling my Yggdrasil, ultraRendu, Teddy Pardo PS, and Lush cable.....

 

When you say “using Network Bridge II” vs. i2s, how are you using i2s w/ ultraRendu? It is UsB 

[asdf1000]

40 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Someone whose ears I respect a lot told me that he heard no difference using the Network Bridge II versus feeding the DirectStream using I2S. Someone here told me something different. We'll see.....

 

I've always preferred the USB input. I later read the below from the Genius (Ted) himself. It may explain why I preferred the USB input to the Bridge II or it may have nothing to do with it.

 

"The USB draws a constant amount of current + some current that depends on the sampling rate.

The Bridge is much more complicated in that there are many kinds of inputs possible with differing compute loads, think of it like a small PC.

On the other hand the DS’s power supply is really 4 separate regulators on two separate transformer windings, the bridge uses a separate regulator from the analog board…"

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/bridge-ii-power-consumption/#p78284

 

As you said, do lots of testing and trust your ears. If you're just as happy with the Bridge II it will make for a less cluttered setup for sure.

 

 

[Speed Racer]

5 hours ago, thyname said:

 

When you say “using Network Bridge II” vs. i2s, how are you using i2s w/ ultraRendu? It is UsB 

 

Please reread what I wrote.

 

Here is more detail: A friend tested the DAC using both the Network Bridge II and using one of the I2S inputs with a streamer. Clearly not at the same time. To test the Network Bridge II, he plugged into his Ethernet switch and set it up as a Roon endpoint. To test the I2S connection, he used a high quality streamer with I2S output as a Roon endpoint. He feels this unnamed streamer is better sounding than the ultraRendu.

 

He noticed no difference in sound quality between the two.

 

We should not discuss this here anymore as this has nothing to do with the ISO Regen or any other UpTone Audio product.

 

Note: I will never know the name of the streamer as it was being tested under nondisclosure so will do no good to ask.....

[thyname]

3 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Please reread what I wrote.

 

Here is more detail: A friend tested the DAC using both the Network Bridge II and using one of the I2S inputs with a streamer. Clearly not at the same time. To test the Network Bridge II, he plugged into his Ethernet switch and set it up as a Roon endpoint. To test the I2S connection, he used a high quality streamer with I2S output as a Roon endpoint. He feels this unnamed streamer is better sounding than the ultraRendu.

 

He noticed no difference in sound quality between the two.

 

We should not discuss this here anymore as this has nothing to do with the ISO Regen or any other UpTone Audio product.

 

Note: I will never know the name of the streamer as it was being tested under nondisclosure so will do no good to ask.....

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

I did use the i2s connector in my DAC (Holo Spring KTE), but via a DD converter (Singxer SU-1). Also, Holo implements th i2s standard via HDMI. I am unaware of a Streamer that uses HDMI output.

 

I am not familiar with DS, but I am considering one. If I do, it will be using the Network Bridge II as Roon endpoint. I am not going back to Spaghetti solutions again.

[tapatrick]

On 10/12/2017 at 2:12 AM, audiojerry said:

I'd like to comment on my  impressions of my recently purchased PS Audio DirectStream Junior dac with ISO Regen and LPS-1 followed by some questions for others who are currently using the DirectStream Junior (DSJ).

First off, I cannot believe how amazingly good this combination of devices sounds. I thought my system was already sounding great with my existing dac with the IR and LPS-1, but the transformation was...transformational. While my OPPO Sonica dac represented a significant step up in sound quality for me, I was still aware of a slightly digital signature on my music, which for me was manifested in a kind of low grade aural irritation resulting in listener fatigue over time.  This irritation has always overlaid and degraded my enjoyment of music for as long as I've been listening to cd's and now, streaming digital files, In recent years i've discovered new equipment that brought about wonderful improvements to my digital playback.  The DSJ seems to have finally rid my music of any digital signature, and I am now able to completely relax and enjoy my music.

I still consider myself a newbie when it comes to computer audio, but this website has been a tremendous aid in helping me learn and discover how great computer audio can sound. So now I have some questions for anyone familiar with the DirectSound Network Bridge II.

The advisors on PS Audio suggest that the Network Bridge is the best way to source music from an NAS to the DSJ  Bridge because the Bridge employs i2s, whcih separates  the clock from the signal path.  This method seems to obviate the need for the IR and LPS-1 because a usb cable isn't involved.  Am I off the mark here? 

I find it hard to believe that I'm losing anything in sound quality by running my usb cable into my IR/LPS-1/USPCB.  Does anyone have experience using both types of input with the DSJ?  
 

Hi Audiojerry

I also have the PS Junior DAC and agree it is an exceptional product with amazing quality of sound and variety of inputs. I also use an ISO Regen fed by an LPS1 but mine also feeds into a Bluewave USB to Spdif converter. So I use the Spdif input on my Junior.

 

I’ve tried the USB and Bridge (both sound very good and a year ago I would have been satisfied with either). The USB input sounds amazing with the ISO R and LPS1 in spite of claims that downstream components do not have any effect on the DAC performance. 

 

However I haven’t bothered to compare each input because after 2 seconds with my current USB to Spdif chain I haven’t used the other inputs since. 

 

I have added a lot of mods to this chain which I won’t go into but the SQ keeps me happy very day . 

 

PS audio just released a new software upgrade for theie DACs including the Junior and if you haven’t loaded this I highly recommend as it is another significant uptick. 

 

To answer your question, there is no way you are losing any Sound quality in my opinion by using USB input. 

[audiojerry]

Thank you, TAPATRICK, for your feedback. It's re-assuring to know that others share the same or similar impressions. I've only had the DSJ for 2 weeks, and it seems to still be breaking in and getting better, and it does have the latest firmware, which is another reason I am very pleased to own the DSJ with upgradeable FPGA vs pre-programmed DAC chips - good as they may be.   

 

I had strongly considered getting the Yggdrasil, but based on others telling me they prefer the DirectStream or DirectStream Junior, I made the plunge for DSJ, although they don't compare price-wise. I am thinking the DSJ is so satisfying because it converts everything do 1 bid dsd? 

 

I might be posting the wrong subject matter here. Sorry.

 

If Superdad is watching (like Santa), I wonder if he has any opinion of i2s vs USB using the ISO-Regen. 

[tapatrick]

22 hours ago, audiojerry said:

...I've only had the DSJ for 2 weeks, and it seems to still be breaking in and getting better, and it does have the latest firmware, which is another reason I am very pleased to own the DSJ with upgradeable FPGA vs pre-programmed DAC chips - good as they may be.  ...

Yes we have an amazing free upgrade path. Just check on your menu panel that you have ‘Redcloud’ version of software loaded as it just came out on Friday last, and your model may have been sitting for some time on a shelf. It’s a significant improvement. 

[sig8]

Alex: I recently inserted Iso Regen between my external USB HDD and PC, and noticed improvement in SQ. As I understand, in this case the data is flowing in the other direction than what is generally done when Iso is connected before the DAC. My chain is:

 

External HDD>USB Cable>Iso Regen>USPCB (hard adapter)>PC

 

In this case data is flowing from HDD to PC via Iso. Does Iso improves signal integrity in this scenario as well (I am not minding it, but just trying to understand)?

 

I have two partitions on the external HDD, one large partition for music files and one for Windows 10. So my system is basically running through Iso Regen at this point.

[Superdad]

11 hours ago, sig8 said:

In this case data is flowing from HDD to PC via Iso. Does Iso improves signal integrity in this scenario as well (I am not minding it, but just trying to understand)?

 

Glad to know you are enjoying the results.  While I am tempted to say they are strictly due to the galvanic isolation feature of the ISO REGEN, in the past some folks reported similar results with the original USB REGEN--which does not have any GI.

 

I is really hard to say why what you are doing works (not that it should not function, just that the reason for its sonic impact is unclear).  The improved signal integrity/impedance match from the REGENs is specifically to aid a DAC's USB input PHY and ground-plane.  Even that is hard to measure (at the DAC output; SI beforehand is obvious) but easy to hear--though John is making progress there  We make no claims beyond that.

 

Happy New Years everyone!  Thanks for making 2017 such a banner year for UpTone.   We promise that new product announcements (but none that supersede the terrific ISO REGEN) will be made very soon!

 

--Alex C.

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Glad to know you are enjoying the results.  While I am tempted to say they are strictly due to the galvanic isolation feature of the ISO REGEN, in the past some folks reported similar results with the original USB REGEN--which does not have any GI.

 

I is really hard to say why what you are doing works (not that it should not function, just that the reason for its sonic impact is unclear).  The improved signal integrity/impedance match from the REGENs is specifically to aid a DAC's USB input PHY and ground-plane.  Even that is hard to measure (at the DAC output; SI beforehand is obvious) but easy to hear--though John is making progress there  We make no claims beyond that.

 

--Alex C.

 

Alex C.

Yes, I get similar both way results with the original Regen, especially when powered via a good battery derived PSU with no USB cable, only a modified USB-A to USB-B adaptor.

There is more improvement when Saving, than with playing, but the gains are still there on playback as well.

(verified by playing back the files saved using the Regen, without the Regen in line)

 This also works when using the USB memory stick, Regen etc. into my Oppo 103.

Perhaps it's mainly due to cleaner power and improved signal integrity ?

 In this case, I will make the claims for you !

Thank you once again for all the pleasure you have given me with this innovative little device that you sent me as a gift several years. BTW, I have also tried to do similar using small USB splitters, and they do not result in any improvement . 

 

Hell, by this method I have even been able to markedly improve old rips from 2007 saved on an internal  reused HDD, and saving them to USB memory using the Regen as described.

 

Kind Regards

Alex K.

[Superdad]

24 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Thank you once again for all the pleasure you have given me with this innovative little device that you sent me as a gift several years.

 

You are always very kind Mr. K.  

I wish you the best of heath and music for 2018. 

[Cbjb]

A question regarding an upgrade path. I currently use a mini>dragonfly>Corning USB>generic usb adaptor>Regen>directstream dac. Was thinking about the iso Regen and LPS1 combination. Would an extra uspcb adaptor replacing the generic usb adaptor be of benefit or be redundant in this upgrade?

[Superdad]

On 1/6/2018 at 9:56 AM, Cbjb said:

A question regarding an upgrade path. I currently use a mini>dragonfly>Corning USB>generic usb adaptor>Regen>directstream dac. Was thinking about the iso Regen and LPS1 combination. Would an extra uspcb adaptor replacing the generic usb adaptor be of benefit or be redundant in this upgrade?

 

Hi:  Sorry to be slow in reply.  

I'm not entirely following your chain.  The Audioquest Dragonfly is a DAC, but of course you don't have a DAC at each end of the chain.   And does not the Corning Optical USB cable have full-size standard USB 'A' and USB 'B' plugs at its ends?

 

If the great length extension of the Corning is not needed, then you will get the best performance but going:

Computer > standard USB cable > ISO REGEN > USPCB Adapter > Directstream DAC.

 

To more generically answer regarding the USPCB A>B Adapter: There is nothing magical about it.  It is an impedance-controlled 4-layer PCB meant to be used in place of a USB cable (primarily to preserve signal integrity and impedance match between the ISO REGEN and the DAC). Adding it to end  or middle of some other cable/adapter chain it will have no beneficial effect.

 

Hope the above helps. 

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.