ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[agladstone]

On 9/13/2017 at 4:39 PM, simorag said:

New ISO REGEN / LPS-1 combo owner here.

 

My rig is: audio-optimized PC (W2016 Core, Audiophile Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, Process Lasso, JPLAY / JPLAYstreamer) > Forza AudioWorks USB cable > ISO REGEN(LPS-1) with GI on > USPCB >  Audio GD NOS11 V2 DAC/Amp > Sennheiser HD800S headphones (balanced).

 

Less than 10 hours of burn in, and an improvement on the blackness of the background and on the fullness and depth of the lower bass response was apparent since the very first tracks . Transparency, soundstage size, instrument separation, focus were already great and I am hearing no much has changed in these regards.

 

I am noticing an increase of the energy on the upper treble, which make sometimes the listening experience more fatiguing and less natural than with no ISO REGEN.

Anybody else had a similar experience? I am hoping some burn in (of the equipment or of my brain) will improve even on this and I will be 100% happy.

 

In the meantime, I made some experiments by placing back my old iPurifier2 (which the Uptone combo was meant to replace) between the USB cable and the ISO Regen, and it seems to me that the overall presentation is a tad warmer and the trebles are smoother. Really don't know if there is a physical explanation of this (perhaps just some added coloration I seem to like, or just my brain playing tricks on me) 

 

With this configuration all aspects of my system are better than before the ISO REGEN addition, and the treble issues are mitigated.

 

Will report further if something changes as listening time increase.

 

Try placing the ipurifier after the ISO Regen (so I purifier goes into DAC, ISO Regen goes before it (out of computer or music server). 

I have found that by placing the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 AFTER the ISO Regen has made a significant improvement in sound quality!! 

The Micro iUSB without the ISO Regen is not as good as WITH the ISO Regen, and the ISO after the Micro also not as good. 

[DancingSea]

10 hours ago, agladstone said:

Try placing the ipurifier after the ISO Regen (so I purifier goes into DAC, ISO Regen goes before it (out of computer or music server). 

I have found that by placing the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 AFTER the ISO Regen has made a significant improvement in sound quality!! 

The Micro iUSB without the ISO Regen is not as good as WITH the ISO Regen, and the ISO after the Micro also not as good. 

 

I'm going to try the iPurifier 2 after the RUR and see what happens....

[simorag]

13 hours ago, agladstone said:

Try placing the ipurifier after the ISO Regen (so I purifier goes into DAC, ISO Regen goes before it (out of computer or music server). 

I have found that by placing the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 AFTER the ISO Regen has made a significant improvement in sound quality!! 

The Micro iUSB without the ISO Regen is not as good as WITH the ISO Regen, and the ISO after the Micro also not as good. 

 

Thanks @agladstone, my guess was that the last signal management before entering the DAC was best assigned to the most advanced device (IR vs  iPurifier 2), but I'll try the permutation you suggest over the weekend and report back how it goes in my system 

 

[fsmithjack]

ISO REGEN Owners QUESTION please: 

 

I recently bought the ISO Regen and a couple USPCB's and I still have my original Regen as well and  I don't use either of the USPCB's 

 

Would it help to use the original Regen in front of the new ISO Regen?

 

If so I will try it.

 

Has anyone tried using multiple Regens?

 

It's just sitting in my draw with both of the USPCB's I bought so I have the equipment to try it but it's behind my rack in a tight spot so if no improvement I really don't want to bother hence my question.

 

if I do try it I would use either the OEM power supply or the iFI 9v supply to power or switch something else around - supplies listed below. I couldn't tell what one was better UpTone OEM or iFI Any recommendations?

 

The way I use the power supplies I have now is as follows below - maybe there is a better way to allowcate power supplies and I should switch stuff around if anyone has experience with doing that? 

 

LPS-1 - ISO Regen

LPS-1  microRendu

JS2 - Version FiOs Gateway router 

JS2 - Netgear Ethernet switch

 

all DC cables are custom order Canare w/ oyide terminations. 

 

Extra equipment I can use is the original Regen and

a coupe of IFI 9v supplies 

a couple of UpTone OEM supplies 

a couple USPCB's

 

i don't use the USPCB's because I found my Terrarium Q Black Diamond Refernce USB cable to be much better. At $1,700 it should be and I also still use my Curious USB extender / Regenlink cable - I use this because I could hear no difference but the curious makes set up flexibility much easier but I could clearly hear how much better the Black Diamond for what that's worth but for the record I found the USPCB to be great and I did not really give time to break in so it could be even better.

 

So was thinking to put the original Regen in front of the ISO Regen and use iFI power supply and insert both my USPCB's if it's the hours of moving all kinds of stuff in and out.

 

thanks for feedback and suggestions!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, fsmithjack said:

ISO REGEN Owners QUESTION please: 

 

I recently bought the ISO Regen and a couple USPCB's and I still have my original Regen as well and  I don't use either of the USPCB's 

 

Would it help to use the original Regen in front of the new ISO Regen?

 

If so I will try it.

 

Has anyone tried using multiple Regens?

 

It's just sitting in my draw with both of the USPCB's I bought so I have the equipment to try it but it's behind my rack in a tight spot so if no improvement I really don't want to bother hence my question.

 

if I do try it I would use either the OEM power supply or the iFI 9v supply to power or switch something else around - supplies listed below. I couldn't tell what one was better UpTone OEM or iFI Any recommendations?

 

The way I use the power supplies I have now is as follows below - maybe there is a better way to allowcate power supplies and I should switch stuff around if anyone has experience with doing that? 

 

LPS-1 - ISO Regen

LPS-1  microRendu

JS2 - Version FiOs Gateway router 

JS2 - Netgear Ethernet switch

 

all DC cables are custom order Canare w/ oyide terminations. 

 

Extra equipment I can use is the original Regen and

a coupe of IFI 9v supplies 

a couple of UpTone OEM supplies 

a couple USPCB's

 

i don't use the USPCB's because I found my Terrarium Q Black Diamond Refernce USB cable to be much better. At $1,700 it should be and I also still use my Curious USB extender / Regenlink cable - I use this because I could hear no difference but the curious makes set up flexibility much easier but I could clearly hear how much better the Black Diamond for what that's worth but for the record I found the USPCB to be great and I did not really give time to break in so it could be even better.

 

So was thinking to put the original Regen in front of the ISO Regen and use iFI power supply and insert both my USPCB's if it's the hours of moving all kinds of stuff in and out.

 

thanks for feedback and suggestions!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually tried this today. Here is my impressions with Tidal as source! ?

 

 

[agladstone]

On 9/16/2017 at 3:41 AM, simorag said:

 

Thanks @agladstone, my guess was that the last signal management before entering the DAC was best assigned to the most advanced device (IR vs  iPurifier 2), but I'll try the permutation you suggest over the weekend and report back how it goes in my system 

 

I agree with that theory completely (that the last unit within a USB cleaning/ reclocking chain should be the best unit). So, from my experimenting with all possible types of combinations which has ended with the IFI Micro iUSB being the last (directly into DAC) and with the ISO Regen feeding the Micro iUSB 3.0, tells me that while the ISO Regen is providing  Galvanic isolation into the Micro iUSB (which is beneficial ), the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 must have the best reclocking capabilities / be the better device (it just does not provide Galvanic isolation, thus the addition of the ISO Regen makes it even better than it already is). 

[Cornan]

I just found out an interesting thing with the ISO Regen in my setup. With the ISO Regen alone with ISO on the sound was hollow and harsh. It sounded much better with USB injection into IR and ISO off. Now, suddently with Regen Amber in front of the IR it sounds much better with the ISO on. My best SQ up to date. Go figure! ?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, agladstone said:

... the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 must have the best reclocking capabilities / be the better device (it just does not provide Galvanic isolation, thus the addition of the ISO Regen makes it even better than it already is). 

 

While I respect everyones' listening impressions and experimentation, I dispute the first part of your above assertion.

 

Without getting into a deep dissection/circuit comparison between the micro iUSB3.0 and the ISO REGEN, I will state that there nothing much to support the notion of their device having better signal integrity or clocking--more the opposite with our choice of clock, regulators, and USB3.1 hub chip, plus highly optimized power networks and layout.

 

Putting an ISO REGEN with USPCB Adapter right at the input your DAC is very hard to beat technically or musically.

 

I certainly will give a nod to iUSB3.0 in regards its 5VBUS output.  The much larger case--though it requires use of a cable to go out to the DAC--permits them board space to built a "beefier" VBUS output for DACs that require it.

 

 

Just my thoughts on a Sunday with the nicest weather we have had summer.   Heading outdoors! Bye,

--Alex C.

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

While I respect everyones' listening impressions and experimentation, I dispute the first part of your above assertion.

 

Without getting into a deep dissection/circuit comparison between the micro iUSB3.0 and the ISO REGEN, I will state that there nothing much to support the notion of their device having better signal integrity or clocking--more the opposite with our choice of clock, regulators, and USB3.1 hub chip, plus highly optimized power networks and layout.

 

Putting an ISO REGEN with USPCB Adapter right at the input your DAC is very hard to beat technically or musically.

 

I certainly will give a nod to iUSB3.0 in regards its 5VBUS output.  The much larger case--though it requires use of a cable to go out to the DAC--permits them board space to built a "beefier" VBUS output for DACs that require it.

 

 

Just my thoughts on a Sunday with the nicest weather we have had summer.   Heading outdoors! Bye,

--Alex C.

My DAC requires 5V VBUS, so maybe that is why having the ISO Regen out of my Aurender (with USPCB) then a Cardas USB Cable into the Micro  iUSB and then the Micro iUSB into my DAC (with USPCB) is the best sounding combination in my system? (So perhaps it is not that it has a better clock, but because my DAC requires / uses 5V VBUS, that it's a better VBUS and that is why it sounds best last in the chain?? )

also- as noted above I use the 90 degree USPCB out of the Micro iUSB into my DAC, so it does not require a USB Cable, I have it standing on its side, and then I propped my DAC up on 4 hockey pucks, it's the perfect height match that way. 

Also, no question the Micro iUSB does NOT sound as good alone, it is the ISO Regen feeding it, that makes it sound so good!  

[fsmithjack]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I actually tried this today. Here is my impressions with Tidal as source! ?

 

 

 

Thanks for the response and the solid advice.

I followed your advice and added the original Regen to work in tandem with the new ISO Regen and it sounds nice.

 

Its a decent little improvement and worthwhile considering I already owned it but nothing too crazy.

 

I mean I don't even think the ISO Regen is really that much better than the original when both are used with an LPS-1.

 

It's a little better but man if you follow and read this thread which I do you, you would think adding the ISO Regen from the original is better than going from Polk Speakers to Magico's  There is definitely no shortage on ridiculousness .

 

There is some great info to be leaned as well from following this thread (like your write up) which I appreciate. No doubt though that some folks are doing some serious Uptone Koolaid guzzling around these parts. To each their own but contributors such as yourself have made real impact on my system which I am grateful for so thanks for that...

 

 

 

[PeteGardner]

On 12/09/2017 at 10:01 PM, PeteGardner said:

I seem to have got to the source of the issue. The lps-1. After taking it out of the chain I have had zero input switching. Issue returns putting it back in.

Any suggestions as to why it causes the issue and, better still, any suggestions on solving the issue so that I can have the lps-1 back in the chain?

i have only had lps-1 set on 7v.

Update:

On suggestion, I moved the Meanwell/LPS-1 from a multi-plug board which is plugged into one socket of a dual wall socket to the other socket so it was 'on it's own'. This worked for about half an hr, until I decided to turn off the TV which I had moved to the multi-plug board from the 'on it's own' wall socket. It started switching inputs after less than a minute and switched quite regularly. So I turned the TV back on and the problem ceased for a while but then started switching inputs again about every 10 minutes or so.

 

My next step was to turn everything off, switch the LPS-1 to 5V. This worked again for a while and then the switching returned. The switching is random so I cannot narrow it down to anything in particular. The only time my system does not switch is when the LPS-1 is not in the chain.

 

Would I benefit from the LPS-1 feeding the TT instead if it solved the issue?

Could a power conditioner help? 

Can anyone help?

Help!

[Doak]

Get the TV out and away from the audio system ... nothing but trouble. 

[Cornan]

8 hours ago, fsmithjack said:

 

 

Thanks for the response and the solid advice.

I followed your advice and added the original Regen to work in tandem with the new ISO Regen and it sounds nice.

 

Its a decent little improvement and worthwhile considering I already owned it but nothing too crazy.

 

I mean I don't even think the ISO Regen is really that much better than the original when both are used with an LPS-1.

 

It's a little better but man if you follow and read this thread which I do you, you would think adding the ISO Regen from the original is better than going from Polk Speakers to Magico's  There is definitely no shortage on ridiculousness .

 

There is some great info to be leaned as well from following this thread (like your write up) which I appreciate. No doubt though that some folks are doing some serious Uptone Koolaid guzzling around these parts. To each their own but contributors such as yourself have made real impact on my system which I am grateful for so thanks for that...

 

 

 

 

Your welcome fsmithjack! ?

If you continue follow my thread you'll see that there could be a good reason why ISO Regen does'nt improve that much in certain systems and improve vastly in other. The Regen Ambers true advantage in combination with IR is most likely it's voltage regulator. The voltage regulator isolates the DC path, so when IR have the ISO on a leakage loop will probably bounce back into the system. Depending on how your system looks that leakage loop might as well end up in for example your DAC or network switch. When I used the Regen Amber as a voltage regulator for my Aqvox switch the SQ decreased. Possibly because the leakage loop when right through my IR (with ISO off) and Brooklyn DAC. When I then added it to the IR the leakage loop most likely went in a path that did'nt decrease SQ (safety ground?).

Anyway, I am now on a mission to make DC2.1/5.5mm female>LT3045 voltage regulator>DC2.1/5.5mm male for all my DC cables. I strongly believe that it will isolate the internal leakage between the various DC PSUs in my system.

Thanks to Regen Amber the ISO Regen sounds better than I ever expected it to sound. A tip is to try to use Regen Amber in other spots if possible. If you hit the weak spot where the leakage loop are making the most damage in your system you'll probably hear more what ISO Regen can do for SQ with ISO on.

 

I hope that helps! ?

[simorag]

On ‎16‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 9:41 AM, simorag said:

 

Thanks @agladstone, my guess was that the last signal management before entering the DAC was best assigned to the most advanced device (IR vs  iPurifier 2), but I'll try the permutation you suggest over the weekend and report back how it goes in my system 

 

 

Following up with further listening, my report is that I am not able to hear differences when placing Ipurifier2 before or after the ISO REGEN. It may be due to lack of sufficient resolution of my ears or of my system, or both 

 

Also, by defeating the GI I get no audible benefits / detriments in all the configuration I tested (IR > USPCB > DAC, IR > USPCB > iPurifier2 > DAC , iPurifier2 > IR > USPCB > DAC).

 

In all cases LPS-1 was present.

 

Finally I confirm that I like IR + iPurifier2 more than both IR alone or iPurifier2 alone, and much more than no IR or iPurifier2.

 

Mostly noticeable improvements with the addition of the IR for me are a more extended and satisfying bass response and a more realistic soundstage, with the instruments still well separated but more organically presented. By adding iPurifier2 I am hearing a reduced harshness in the highs at the (small) price of (slightly) less transparency.

 

By the way, after all the uber-analytical (while enjoyable) effort, yesterday I heard the best Miles Davis Kind of Blue playback I can recall on my system 

 

[Matias]

@Superdad

After a few months with my ISO Regen I definitely find it a lot more sensitive than the USB Regen. I leave the ISO Regen on during the day, and at night I turn the DAC and amps on, most times the DAC is not found  by Win10. Even when it is, there is some popping and clicking going on. I have then to power the ISO Regen off and on, then it works. And I think I may be hearing some clicking sometimes, or maybe I have gone crazy. It is really this sensitive?

[PeteGardner]

On 18/09/2017 at 11:12 AM, Doak said:

Get the TV out and away from the audio system ... nothing but trouble. 

Thanks Doak, it does appear to be the TV, but only when it is off. When I have the TV on I have NO switching.

That in it's self seems strange to me as I would have expected the issues to happen when the TV was on.

I moved my system to a different wall socket which is approx 10ft from the TV. The issue with the switching is still there (TV off). I have no other place for my system and the TV is wall mounted in the only position available (the joys of apartment living).

Unless someone has a fix here (including the possibility of another device to negate the issue) it looks like the LPS-1 will need to come out of the chain , or I need to leave the TV on when listening (not ideal).

Once again - HELP!

[Doak]

12 hours ago, PeteGardner said:

Thanks Doak, it does appear to be the TV, but only when it is off. When I have the TV on I have NO switching.

Freaky 

[Johnseye]

12 hours ago, PeteGardner said:

Thanks Doak, it does appear to be the TV, but only when it is off. When I have the TV on I have NO switching.

That in it's self seems strange to me as I would have expected the issues to happen when the TV was on.

I moved my system to a different wall socket which is approx 10ft from the TV. The issue with the switching is still there (TV off). I have no other place for my system and the TV is wall mounted in the only position available (the joys of apartment living).

Unless someone has a fix here (including the possibility of another device to negate the issue) it looks like the LPS-1 will need to come out of the chain , or I need to leave the TV on when listening (not ideal).

Once again - HELP!

 

19 minutes ago, Doak said:

Freaky 

 

I wonder if this has something to do with grounding.

[SWL3600]

Right now I'm using the ISO-REGEN, LPS-1 combo and really like it.

 

Considering adding a Microrendu. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? 

 

Thanks!

[Johnseye]

6 minutes ago, SWL3600 said:

Right now I'm using the ISO-REGEN, LPS-1 combo and really like it.

 

Considering adding a Microrendu. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? 

 

Thanks!

 

If you want to keep your music server in a different location from your DAC it's worth it. 

[fsmithjack]

What are you using with now? 

[SWL3600]

A Windows 10 laptop.

[SWL3600]

Sorry, I should have included that I'm only interested if the microrendu will improve sound quality......above and beyond the quality that the IR already gives.

[elcorso]

23 hours ago, PeteGardner said:

Thanks Doak, it does appear to be the TV, but only when it is off. When I have the TV on I have NO switching.

That in it's self seems strange to me as I would have expected the issues to happen when the TV was on.

I moved my system to a different wall socket which is approx 10ft from the TV. The issue with the switching is still there (TV off). I have no other place for my system and the TV is wall mounted in the only position available (the joys of apartment living).

Unless someone has a fix here (including the possibility of another device to negate the issue) it looks like the LPS-1 will need to come out of the chain , or I need to leave the TV on when listening (not ideal).

Once again - HELP!

 

Pete,

 

Please check your AC receptacles for inverted polarity, or open ground somewhere.

 

They are inexpensive and easy to use, they are available at hardware stores.

 

Roch

[fsmithjack]

32 minutes ago, SWL3600 said:

A Windows 10 laptop.

 

 

OMG - Yes - it will be a 100,000 times better than a PC. Your lucky I wish I could spend $500 and make my system improve as much as yours will. You will love it. Let me know - you can message me I'm getting my Bricasti M1SE updated and having their internal Ethernet upgrade performed and will hook you up with a good deal if you want a used one. Mines about the 3 months old and if you want a new one they are cheap for the type of improvement you will get. I'll throw in a USPCB and a iFI supply because I don't use either. Might use them in other room if you don't want it so no worries.