ISO REGEN Listening Impressions (kicked off with some measurements)

[Superdad]

ISO REGENs (and ISO REGEN/UltraCap LPS-1 bundles) will begin arriving to first buyers in just a few days, so here is the place for everyone to spout off about what they hear with it in their music systems.

 

An "Operation and Pre-purchase" question/reporting topic will also be created, so please let's keep this one just to commentary about sound.

 

However, I am going to start off with some pictures that have nothing to do with subjective sonic perception and everything to do with proof that the ISO REGEN does measurably--and quite radically--improve USB signal integrity.  

 

Although John's analyzer (and whole lab) went into storage for his house move before he had a chance to do captures of the eye-patten tests he ran during development (and his older but fully capable Tektronix analyzer does not make hi-res captures easy), an engineer friend of ours just sent the below before and after images to us.

 

Without getting into the complexities of how to read an eye-pattern diagram or what it all means (such will get carried to another thread), I'll just say that an eye-pattern test is really the best all-in-one representation of signal integrity as it reveals variations in noise, amplitude, timing, jitter, edge-rates, etc.

 

The "before" shot is typical of what comes straight out of a computer's USB port.  Keyboards, printers, phones, drives, etc. all could care less about signal integrity--as long as it is good enough for their receiver/processor chips to lock onto.  While DACs and audio digital converters will also manage to extract the data from the USB audio stream (and that data really is a noisy, modulated analog voltage), the harder they have to "work" to do so, the more of their own internal packet- and spiky ground-plane noise they generate.  That stuff gets through to the DAC master clock and is why differences in the USB chain upstream (cables, REGENs, etc.) can be heard.

 

The "after" image looks pretty great.  Notice how clean, narrow, and upright the 'X's on each side are.

Anyway, I know this is the wrong thread for these, but it's Friday, we are getting the first ISO REGENs out the door, and I wanted to share these pretty pics.

 

What counts is what you all hear.  So onto the listening! 

(Please give your ISO REGENs a few hours to "warm up."  Clock oscillators always sound better when warm, and some folks claim the circuit itself needs "break-in." I personally think it is our ear/brain systems that take time to recognize/accept the many subtle or not subtle changes to the music.  Often it is not the "sound" we listen directly "at," but rather the "experience" of the music that catches us by surprise.  Most of you will hear both right away, but just don't jump to conclusions. 

 

Thank you all for your enthusiasm and support.  Hope you enjoy our new "baby."

 

Without ISO REGEN:

 

With ISO REGEN:

[brightonjel]

Well, let's see if I get the honor of being the first to post something as a straight forward customer!

 

Everything now up and running.  I tried a couple of quick configurations to driving the ISO Regen, either with the LPS1 only powering it or with a split cable and so using the LPS1 to power that and the uRendu.  Ultimately, I am now listening with the wall-wart powering the uRendu and the LPS1 only driving the Regen.  It seems a bit less noisy in that mode, but will try again in the future just to see. Everything still settling down of course, but even now it feels like a bit more bass definition and upper-end clarity to what I am hearing.  Alas, can't try the USB connector as, with my current configuration, another cable gets in the way, so my set-up isn't as yet optimal.

 

Anyway - great job on sticking to the shipping schedule and for producing another great product!

[scan80269]

I had a few hours of listening using the following setup with ISO REGEN added:

 

WIn10 i7-3770S AIO PC (HQPlayer & local library on SSD) <iFi Mercury USB cable> ISO REGEN (LPS-1 powered) <USPCB A>B hard adaper> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modified, LPS-1 powered) <ultra-slim 1.5' HDMI cable> Holo Audio Spring DAC <XLR cables> Jensen ISO-MAX PI-2XX <XLR cables> Auralic Taurus MkII headphone amp <Stefan Audio Art Endorphin balanced headphone cable> Sennheiser HD800

 

Spring DAC was in NOS mode.  Each LPS-1 fed by a modified Breeze Audio el-cheapo linear power supply.  No upsampling in HQPlayer.

 

Initial impressions:

 

WOW!!!  I almost could not recognize some of my favorite recordings!  

 

Firmer & more prominent bass, smoother treble, less sibilant, more articulate & expressive voices, more air around instruments, longer reverb tails, more liquid sounding, stronger dynamics along with improved details.

 

The sound is frankly hard to put into words.  A number of previously un-listenable recordings are big-time transformed!  The improvements are largest with Redbook 16/44.1K content, but even my HRx (24/176.4K) recordings sounded better like never before!

 

ISO REGEN (along with USPCB) is now my favorite USB grunge blocker.  I won't be surprised to hear ISO REGEN elevating the sound of USB over S/PDIF or AES interfaces for a wide variety of system setups.

 

Bravo, Alex and John!  ISO REGEN is another major winner!  

 

Back to more listening...

 

p.s. Alex, the ISO REGEN + modded SU-1 sounds like a killer combo for the Spring DAC.  Have you heard this setup yet?

 

p.p.s. That eye diagram for ISO REGEN is among the cleanest waveforms I've ever laid eyes on.  Awesome!

 

 

[scan80269]

A couple of pics of my setup with ISO REGEN installed:

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

Initial impressions:

WOW!!!  I almost could not recognize some of my favorite recordings!  

 

Firmer & more prominent bass, smoother treble, less sibilant, more articulate & expressive voices, more air around instruments, longer reverb tails, more liquid sounding, stronger dynamics along with improved details.

 

The sound is frankly hard to put into words.  A number of previously un-listenable recordings are big-time transformed! 

 

You can hear all that with headphones?!  Must be my generation--or maybe I have never heard a SOTA headphone rig.  While I enjoy headphones, I find all the spatial stuff and sorts of things I listen for during development to "bloom" and be easier to recognize over speakers.  Helps that my dedicated studio has great acoustics that my amp and speakers are quite revealing. 

 

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

ISO REGEN (along with USPCB) is now my favorite USB grunge blocker.  I won't be surprised to hear ISO REGEN elevating the sound of USB over S/PDIF or AES interfaces for a wide variety of system setups.

 

Yes, for a lot of USB DAC users--even or especially with cheaper DACs--ISO REGEN is going to allow them to punch well above their price point.

 

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

p.s. Alex, the ISO REGEN + modded SU-1 sounds like a killer combo for the Spring DAC.  Have you heard this setup yet?

 

As you know, I do also own an SU-1 and Holo Spring L3 DAC, but my SU-1 is completely stock at this point.  I bought Kitsune's  external DC-conversion plate kit, but have not had a chance to install it.  Maybe I can send my SU-1 over to you for the full treatment? I'll pay for all the parts, shipping, etc. of course. 

 

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

p.p.s. That eye diagram for ISO REGEN is among the cleanest waveforms I've ever laid eyes on.  Awesome!

 

Yes, I was pretty shocked at just how clean it is.  And that is at the end of a half-meter of generic USB printer cable.  I should have sent our friend a USPCB for the output.

 

BTW, someone upthread asked if those tests could be repeated (with a microRendu, etc.).  Not by our engineer friend as he snuck the ISO REGEN into his lab at work, and had to surreptitiously run the tests one evening.  The unit he used is about a $35K machine--in a lab with possibly $400K of test gear.

 

John can and does run eye-pattern and all sorts of other tests, but the moment he gets his lab set back up there are a whole bunch of far more important things he will be jumping on, so fiddling around capturing test readouts is low on the priority list for now.

Besides, much of the sonic improvements brought by the circuit enhancements of ISO REGEN are not revealed in an eye-pattern.  Even what the Crystek 575 does (versus the more average low-jitter Crystek 3391 we used in the original USB REGEN) will be hard for the untrained eye to spot.  But it sure is easy to hear!

 

 

 

[brightonjel]

Just a quick revisit for those waiting for the postman on Monday - definitely worth the wait!  What I reported yesterday on first listen has solidified further today after 24 hours.  Bass is definitely better defined, and there's more detail in the backgrounds than before; voices sound a bit more natural too.

 

Haven't yet tried other permutations - e.g. walwart driving ISO Regen and LPS-1 on uRendu, largely because getting to all the cabling etc. on my setup is a real pain, so I'm looking forward to hearing the impressions others have as they try variations on the "what PSU drives which device" theme.  Meanwhile, back to the music ...

[scan80269]

Hi Alex,

 

I have to admit that a headphones setup is not the best for assessing changes to things such as sound stage and imaging, and often in the past I had to listen very carefully and extensively to pick out the differences after applying a tweak, but not this time.  After the ISO REGEN got installed the changes I heard in my headphones setup were not subtle (sorry for the cliche, is this an audiophile meme yet?  )

 

I have an outstanding offer to Ted to mod his SU-1 with polymer caps and super-regulator (to replace that mediocre LD1086).  I can certainly do the same for your SU-1 as well.  Just give the word.  I'm about to order a Sparkos Labs SS1117XX discrete regulator for my own SU-1, and can order another one for yours (and save on the shipping).

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, scan80269 said:

I had a few hours of listening using the following setup with ISO REGEN added:

 

WIn10 i7-3770S AIO PC (HQPlayer & local library on SSD) <iFi Mercury USB cable> ISO REGEN (LPS-1 powered) <USPCB A>B hard adaper> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modified, LPS-1 powered) <ultra-slim 1.5' HDMI cable> Holo Audio Spring DAC <XLR cables> Jensen ISO-MAX PI-2XX <XLR cables> Auralic Taurus MkII headphone amp <Stefan Audio Art Endorphin balanced headphone cable> Sennheiser HD800

 

Spring DAC was in NOS mode.  Each LPS-1 fed by a modified Breeze Audio el-cheapo linear power supply.  No upsampling in HQPlayer.

 

Initial impressions:

 

WOW!!!  I almost could not recognize some of my favorite recordings!  

 

Firmer & more prominent bass, smoother treble, less sibilant, more articulate & expressive voices, more air around instruments, longer reverb tails, more liquid sounding, stronger dynamics along with improved details.

 

The sound is frankly hard to put into words.  A number of previously un-listenable recordings are big-time transformed!  The improvements are largest with Redbook 16/44.1K content, but even my HRx (24/176.4K) recordings sounded better like never before!

 

ISO REGEN (along with USPCB) is now my favorite USB grunge blocker.  I won't be surprised to hear ISO REGEN elevating the sound of USB over S/PDIF or AES interfaces for a wide variety of system setups.

 

Bravo, Alex and John!  ISO REGEN is another major winner!  

 

Back to more listening...

 

p.s. Alex, the ISO REGEN + modded SU-1 sounds like a killer combo for the Spring DAC.  Have you heard this setup yet?

 

p.p.s. That eye diagram for ISO REGEN is among the cleanest waveforms I've ever laid eyes on.  Awesome!

 

 

 

Great to read your impressions!

 

But - didn't you have an Aries-based setup? Did you switch to a direct-USB HQPlayer-based setup while I wasn't paying attention?  I'm curious how it sounds on a endpoint/renderer/NAA setup.

 

And - any comparison to previous USB decrapifiers - Intona, RUR, Regen, ...?

[scan80269]

15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Great to read your impressions!

 

But - didn't you have an Aries-based setup? Did you switch to a direct-USB HQPlayer-based setup while I wasn't paying attention?  I'm curious how it sounds on a endpoint/renderer/NAA setup.

 

And - any comparison to previous USB decrapifiers - Intona, RUR, Regen, ...?

I still have my Aries Femto / Vega combo which has been the reference for my headphones setup.  I just haven't listened to it for a bit, having been too distracted by my Spring DAC, Singxer SU-1 and now the ISO REGEN... 

 

Actually, since I have an Audio Design XLR switch box for switching among 3 XLR sources, I can easily do a shootout between the Aries/Vega and PC/ISO REGEN/SU-1/Spring setups.  I'll try to get to this, and it would be fun and informative, but right now I'm enjoying the sound of the latter setup almost too much...

 

I can offer some comments on the most recent changes for my SU-1/Spring setup.  The ISO REGEN (LPS-1 powered) directly replaced an Intona, and the differences have been dramatic.  The Intona itself provided some degree of improvement over no Intona, particularly in helping to make voices less sibilant, but I was blown away by the step function jump in SQ as soon as the ISO REGEN replaced the Intona.  I did try both 5V and 7V settings of the LPS-1 powering the ISO REGEN, but did not hear any difference between them.

 

I know some folks want to hear about the SQ differences between ISO REGEN and original REGEN.  I haven't compared these either.  So many comparisons to do, and so many recordings I want to hear fresh again with the ISO REGEN in place.

 

 

[scan80269]

One of my next steps is to haul the whole ISO REGEN / LPS-1 / SU-1 / Spring setup to my retried colleague's place for auditioning with his speakers.  He's got the fast Lyngdorf stereo subs and Benchmark AHB2 amps in bi-amped mode, and is my go-to place to assessing sound stage, imaging, details, dynamics, etc.

 

I'm glad my retired colleague has more time on his hands.  It's me with my day job that can't get enough hours in a day.

 

[limniscate]

Interesting, sounds like the improvement is similar to the SOtM tX-USB Ultra.  I'd love to see a comparison of the two devices.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, limniscate said:

Interesting, sounds like the improvement is similar to the SOtM tX-USB Ultra.  I'd love to see a comparison of the two devices.

 

Sure.  

 

Theirs is $990 and requires another USB cable (which reduces signal integrity and impedance match);

 

Ours is $325, plugs right into your DAC with the best possible connector (a 4-layer PCB adapter), has a widely respected ultra-low-phase-noise clock (Crystek 575), and 5 of the world's lowest noise voltage regulators (LT3042).

And oh yes, the ISO REGEN provides true galvanic isolation.

 

As for sonic comparisons, guess we'll have to wait until someone buys both.  

[pam1975]

Alex, can the Iso Regen be used before a Mutec MC3+ USB? Thanks 

[Speed Racer]

21 minutes ago, pam1975 said:

Alex, can the Iso Regen be used before a Mutec MC3+ USB? Thanks 

 

I am not Alex, but sure, why not? I am using one before my DDC...a Singxer F-1.

[Superdad]

48 minutes ago, pam1975 said:

Alex, can the Iso Regen be used before a Mutec MC3+ USB? Thanks 

 

Yup.  Benefits the DDCs the same and for the same reasons as any USB audio input.  Better signal integrity, impedance match, galvanic isolation, etc.  Longer explanations have been made here elsewhere, so please do look around--or visit our website.  Thanks.

[Doak]

Clean, Clean, CLEAN!! 

but by no means "sterile." 

A bit more than an hour in. 

Oh, I'd better mention TIGHT too - not just bass. It's about DEFINITION.

Only change is ISORegen vs W4SRUR - UPTONE leapfrogs ahead, again.

[Doak]

IMO at this level of music reproduction it's about increasing the level and integrity of the nuances that make the experience more "real." Those itty-bitty things that you didn't know were being masked when revealed may me just say "Yeah!".  

Running through my reference playlist of DSD stuff sounding SWEETER than ever  - path: Aries>short Supra >ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1)>My Homebrew USB A-B dongle>Lampizator L4G5 w/mods. Don't want to move, and that's always a GOOD sign.

 

[ted_b]

My ISO Regen arrived today (thanks Alex and co) and I will put it through its paces starting tonight (worst case tmrw).  I wanted to say that I was not paying attention when the USPCB was announced and did not realize it has an onboard VBus switch.  Nice touch!

[Doak]

14 minutes ago, ted_b said:

My ISO Regen arrived today (thanks Alex and co) and I will put it through its paces starting tonight (worst case tmrw).  I wanted to say that I was not paying attention when the USPCB was announced and did not realize it has an onboard VBus switch.  Nice touch!

Thanks Ted, I missed that. Will play with my dongle again after I put some more hours on the ISO-R.  

[Speed Racer]

My setup has a 2016 MacBook Pro running Audirvana Plus 3.x using USB to a Singxer F-1 DDC using S/PDIF coax to an Yggdrasil DAC. The DAC is using XLR interconnects to a Mjolnir 2 headphone amp. I am doing all of my listening on powered nearfield monitors. The DAC, amp, and speakers are all plugged into a TrippLite “PS” power strip. The power strip is plugged into a 2.5kVa Topaz isolation transformer. To this, I added an ISO Regen powered by an LPS-1 between the DDC and MacBook Pro. The USB cable from the MacBook is plugged into the input of the ISO Regen. The ISO Regen is connected to DDC using a USPCB. The following comments outline the changes I perceive with the ISO Regen and USPCB in place and powered on for more 15 hours.

 

The music and voices emanate from a quieter background.

 

The timbre of instruments and voices are a bit more defined. This is even true with bass sounds which tend to muddle together more.

 

The bass is more full yet has more detail and clarity. The mids and highs are a bit sharper without being harsher. The overall clarity and detail is a little bit better.

 

The soundstage isn’t any wider but I get a sense of more depth and height. Instruments and voices have much better isolation and their locations are more defined. The is the single biggest difference I hear in the music. I could hear this before but not with the laser like focus I get now. Instead of the sound coming from a general direction on the stage, I get a sense of the sound coming from a very specific location on the stage. The effect is not subtle and gives me a much better sense of being at a live performance.

 

The best analogy I can come up with is that with the ISO Regen, LPS-1, and USPCB in place versus what I started with is like comparing two photos on the same scene. One slightly out of focus with a color filter in place while the other is perfectly in focus with no filter. You can tell that both are of the same image. But, with the slightly out of focus image, you can’t quite see all the detail. Parts of the image are blurred together and some of the colors aren’t quite right. It’s pleasing to the eye until you see the perfectly focused image. You immediately realize what you are missing. You see all the details and the colors look better and more natural. It’s like a veil has been lifted from your eyes.

 

None of the differences I hear are anything more than subtle. It’s when take them as a whole that you realize how much the listening experience is enhanced. The clarity and detail improvements along with the voice and instrument isolation on the soundstage make for a much more realistic and better sounding listening experience.

[Doak]

3 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

is like comparing two photos on the same scene. One slightly out of focus with a color filter in place while the other is perfectly in focus with no filter.

Yes, excellent analogy.

[T-Bone]

18 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Yes, most people put something under their REGEN's for support.  Foam block, stack of Post-Its, or possibly even something sticky at both ends to hold it all still so even a cable pull won't mess things up.

I took a little 3" wide strip of bubble-wrap and folded it a few times into a nice "pillow".  
Problem solved courtesy of redneck engineering.   (a true redneck would have used duct tape!)

 

18 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I am surprised you did not order your unit with the 90-degree rotated USPCB.  If you are using the I2S output of the SU-1, then a vertical orientation of the REGEN would allow you to plug in the I2s cable.

I've got my gear crammed into a bookshelf and I'm running out of room vertically, so I opted for the "horizontal" connector.  I had no problems getting my HDMI cable routed under/around the REGEN.

Thanks for the offer though!  

 

[tboooe]

The eagle has landed....right now I have the IsoRegen warming up being powered by a 5v Teknet battery.  Just played one song and it works!  I will give it a few hours before I sit down tonight to give it a serious listen.  I am pretty excited!

 

BTW, i am using some Legos for support.  Unfortunately, I cannot get the height exactly right so the IsoRegen (actually USPCB) is slightly flexing upward.  Hopefully this wont be a problem long term.

[rickca]

Yes, precious! ISO REGEN is here and I'll start testing tomorrow.  I will try it with an iFi micro iDSD and with my Berkeley Alpha USB/Jeff Rowland Aeris.  In both cases, I will power the ISO REGEN with an LPS-1.

 

I haven't had an original REGEN for quite a while, so my comparison will be to a Sonore microRendu/LPS-1 in DLNA/MPD mode directly attached to a Windows 10 network bridge.  I don't have any fancy Ethernet cables or isolators, just BJC Cat 6a.

 

I've found those little myrtle wood blocks that Ayre or Cardas sell work well to support these devices, but you can certainly use something simpler.

[MisterRogers]

I've reached out to Alex about this, but my unit doesn't work. When feeding an SU-1, I get crackling noise. When I switch it to my other system (feeding an MC-3+) I can't get a signal lock. 

 

Can you all please confirm successful use feeding either SU-1 or MC-3+?