Proper Grounding a system

[Ralf11]

6 hours ago, marce said:

... you have to work within the known laws of physics and electronics...

 

what a drag, man!!

 

 

[jabbr]

10 hours ago, marce said:

Trouble is being an engineer means you have to work within the known laws of physics and electronics..

You don't have the right kind of SPICE man  

[mansr]

12 minutes ago, jabbr said:

You don't have the right kind of SPICE man  

The spice must flow.

[marce]

[YashN]

On 5/20/2017 at 0:15 AM, MikeyFresh said:

 

+1 on that, total trolls whose entire aim is to fight about things rather than discuss them.

 

These trolls always have the last word, because they are always 100% right and anyone with a contrary opinion, or even an inquisitive approach is mocked.

 

Funny how Daudio, who doesn't know what a 1n Capacitor is, tries to put down a serious thread, which he also tried to derail unsuccessfully.

 

Good luck getting any help from that guy. He was put on my Ignore List a long time ago. I'm only seeing his badmouthing because he was quoted. He obviously has nothing of value to add as usual.

 

The threads were full of serious discussion from cool people and have a lot of papers referenced so you can make your own mind by your own examination and experiments.

[Trainleader]

On 2017-06-07 at 4:33 PM, michaelD said:

Ok so I got some news to report.  

 

First off I got a Q1, Q3 and Q6 late last week.  However the Q6 was damaged in shipping so I could not test with that unit.  Its too bad as that is the one I really wanted to test since I could connect all my components to it. However I proceeded to move ahead using the Q1& 3.

 

Here are the combo's I used with my system:

 

1. Entreq Silver Tellus w/Everest, Apollo wire and earth ground both connected to the QB8 ground lug.  This has been my base setup for a few years now.

2. Q1 and earth ground connected to the QB8 lug.

3. Same as 2 except adding Q3 and connecting two more cables one each to M28 mono amp RCA's.

4. 1, 2 and 3 all together

5. Same as 3 but removing earth ground

 

Conclusion:

1 &2 not much difference at all.  If pushed hard I would give it to the Entreq box.  However the Entreq box was on an aluminum pan with spikes to my basement floor through carpeting.  The Q1 was on carpet in front of my amps. The reason being the 2M cables that come with the units were a little short to place it on the Aluminum pan with spikes.  I believe that may have been why the Nordost came up a little short.  Either way regardless its a plus sonically to have either connected.

 

3 was the best setup by far!  Its hard to say which is better Nordost or Entreq as its over a week ago but I had a similar setup with Entreq when I has 2 Silver minimus with Everest connected to the negative speaker output on each M28.  In addition at the time I also had my two digital components - Aurender N10 and Bricasti M1 DAC connected to the Silver Tellus. This sounded really good but can't test the Nordost solution until I get a working Q6.

 

4 did not help. Can't say it hurt but why add more items and extra cost with little gain.

 

5 by removing the earth ground this took away from the sound.  I have tried this in the past with the Entreq box alone and found that adding a earth ground did improve the effect.  So same with Nordost.

 

So what did I hear?

Bass was the big story in my opinion.  The Bass was deeper also being more solid or crisp. Over all the sound was just more engaging with some soundstage particularly 3D improvement.

 

I did finally move the Q1 and Q3 in a space that was close enough so their 2M cables would work so I could stack them on top of one another.  In addition I put TC sort kones under the Q1 and then the Q3 on top of that then placed this stack on my aluminum pan but replaced the spike feet with Sort Fut.  Boy this really made a big improvement.  The effect was even greater in all aspects nothing new just a much more noticeable total effect.

 

Entreq Vs Nordost - I do like the immediate effect that the Nordost product does.  It takes about 24 hours for the Entreq and doing a AB compare gets complicated and difficult.  I will have more to say once I connect the Q6 up.

 

So what is left is to get a new Q6 hopefully will be here by the weekend and then connect it to everything thing including the two digital components.  I think this will be the best but need to listen first. 

 

 

 

 

Michael you say nr5.. adding a earth ground improves the effect. How do you add earth ground? I live on 6th floor in an apartment so I cant hammer a pole to the ground in my garden. Do you go from ground in wall outlet to QB8 ground pin or do you go from the radiator to QB8? Sorry if my questions are stupid.. I dont know much about this.. but it seems to have a very good effect with good grounding conditions for my system.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I don't like babysitting adults. Stop the insults. 

[YashN]

Not sure where my post about trying a simple form of 'signal grounding' went (took the shield from a satellite cable and flattened it, and then connected that to my iMac frame + my iFi + my SS amp through an unused port to a simple copper tube - easy enough to try for yourself in your rig), but suffices to say I heard an effect immediately in my system at the time (as opposed to the reports of people using Entreq where the effect can take time - I don't doubt these reports though).

 

On the other hand, there is no guarantee I will still hear something if I try it again since I've since worked on isolating the USB connection from the iMac to my iFi DAC, as well as injecting clean power with a DIY Linear Regulated PSU, as well as putting back my DIY AC Filter box in use, all three having significant effects on SQ.

 

This is certainly something I will try again, but it could be a while until I get to it (mostly mechanical work remaining for the AC Filter Box).

[michaelD]

19 hours ago, Trainleader said:

Michael you say nr5.. adding a earth ground improves the effect. How do you add earth ground? I live on 6th floor in an apartment so I cant hammer a pole to the ground in my garden. Do you go from ground in wall outlet to QB8 ground pin or do you go from the radiator to QB8? Sorry if my questions are stupid.. I dont know much about this.. but it seems to have a very good effect with good grounding conditions for my system.

 

Yes I did say that adding an additional ground if you can does help.  In your case the nice thing about either the Nordost or Entreq solution is that someone in an apartment can enjoy the benefits of grounding without an earth ground.  Either solution works well. 

[Trainleader]

3 hours ago, michaelD said:

 

Yes I did say that adding an additional ground if you can does help.  In your case the nice thing about either the Nordost or Entreq solution is that someone in an apartment can enjoy the benefits of grounding without an earth ground.  Either solution works well. 

I am planning to try out a Entreq box. I guess I will start with connecting it to the grounding pin of the QB8. I am very qureious about the outcome. Adding external ground will be difficult I guess.. but there is of course a radiator in the room... ?

[michaelD]

Which Entreq box and why?  Also are you going to try the QKore box?

[Trainleader]

1 hour ago, michaelD said:

Which Entreq box and why?  Also are you going to try the QKore box?

QKore is new to me.. I guess it would be very nice. Why Entreq.. well I was thinking of trying a Silver Tellus, its about £1300 in Sweden. The QKore1 is more expensive.. like £2125 in Sweden... so.. Do you think the QKore1 is worth the extra money in your system?

[michaelD]

May be prices in Sweden but a Silver Tellus and Q1 are about $2500 here in the states.  Are you talking a Silver Tellus minimus?   If the Silver Tellus is that much less in Sweden then yes go for if.  

[Trainleader]

40 minutes ago, michaelD said:

May be prices in Sweden but a Silver Tellus and Q1 are about $2500 here in the states.  Are you talking a Silver Tellus minimus?   If the Silver Tellus is that much less in Sweden then yes go for if.  

Thanks Michael. No.. im thinking about Silver Tellus. I have a friend who knows the guys at Entreq, they are located pretty close to where I live and I guess the price is better in Sweden.. maybe $1800-1900. Perhaps I can get a nice deal as well.. who knows.. I hope to try it out in a few weeks. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Speedskater]

On 6/19/2017 at 2:57 PM, Trainleader said:

Michael you say nr5.. adding a earth ground improves the effect. How do you add earth ground? I live on 6th floor in an apartment so I cant hammer a pole to the ground in my garden.

Almost all 6 story apartments have a metal framework which is connected to Mother earth. The Safety Ground/Protective Earth darn well better be bonded to the metal framework.

But it doesn't matter, the connection to Mother earth doesn't add anything in day-to-say AC power quality.

[Trainleader]

1 hour ago, Speedskater said:

Almost all 6 story apartments have a metal framework which is connected to Mother earth. The Safety Ground/Protective Earth darn well better be bonded to the metal framework.

But it doesn't matter, the connection to Mother earth doesn't add anything in day-to-say AC power quality.

I have installed safety and protective earth in all of the apartment and residual-current circuit breaker as well by licenced electrician and I will not change my safety and protective earth to another arrangement. I have to settle with the earth cleaning devices.

[Speedskater]

The noise, interference and leakage currents on the Safety Ground/Protective Earth, are just trying to get back to their voltage source. The voltage source is the power company Neutral in the main breaker box.

Don't know how an earth cleaning device could help.

[audio.bill]

1 hour ago, Speedskater said:

The noise, interference and leakage currents on the Safety Ground/Protective Earth, are just trying to get back to their voltage source. The voltage source is the power company Neutral in the main breaker box.

Don't know how an earth cleaning device could help.

Speedskater - I thought as you did, but then I heard the effect of the Nordost QKORE system and couldn't believe the improvement it made. I can't explain technically how or why it makes the improvement that it does but would respectfully suggest that those interested give it a listen before condemning it as audiophile snake oil.

[Speedskater]

Most likely it's adding a small amount of background noise/interference which is sometimes perceived as added definition or sparkle.

[audio.bill]

2 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Most likely it's adding a small amount of background noise/interference which is sometimes perceived as added definition or sparkle.

Sorry but that's not at all what I heard, have you actually auditioned these products yourself in a familiar system?

[Speedskater]

1 hour ago, audio.bill said:

Sorry but that's not at all what I heard, have you actually auditioned these products yourself in a familiar system?

Of course not. My old ears aren't what the used to be. With all unconventional products, I wait for someone to demonstrate that they can hear a significant difference.

 

[Cornan]

53 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Of course not. My old ears aren't what the used to be. With all unconventional products, I wait for someone to demonstrate that they can hear a significant difference.

 

 

If you Google around you'll have no problem to find  out that a lot of people hear a significant difference with grounding boxes. I'm 50 year old and have no problem to hear that they do make a great improvement to sq. In fact it is one of the few sq improvements I would'nt trade. I cannot tell you exactly why and therefore share your curiousity to find out why? ?

 

[audio.bill]

I'm getting up there myself at 58 and counting, and didn't expect to hear much if any difference from the Nordost QKORE grounding system. Unfortunately that's not the way it turned out and I was really shocked at how big a difference it made. It wasn't a subjective difference either, it was just obviously that much better with the QKORE connected than without is. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear it for myself, that's why I suggest giving it an audition if you have the opportunity. Now trying to figure out how to justify the expense is another question entirely!

[monteverdi]

I was at this year's HighEnd in Munich and wanted to listen to Boenicke speakers. They were teamed up with CAD and they demonstrated their ground control devices http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/gc1-ground-control/.

I was very skeptical to all these devices and was not interested but just the +/- effect was very obvious. Likely that pricing is not very correlated to production costs.

[Speedskater]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

If you Google around you'll have no problem to find  out that a lot of people hear a significant difference with grounding boxes. I'm 50 year old and have no problem to hear that they do make a great improvement to sq. In fact it is one of the few sq improvements I would'nt trade. I cannot tell you exactly why and therefore share your curiousity to find out why? ?

 

Please list some proctored demonstrations.

 

Audio enthusiasts are given to reporting any number of things.

Art Dudley :: Stereophile Magazine