Proper Grounding a system

[Solstice380]

New discoveries will always be made.  The problem I see is you guys think you are the ones making them!

[pkane2001]

17 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

@marce, are there ways noise in the MHz frequency range might adversely affect audio that you know of?

MHz noise will have very little effect on analog components, as these usually operate under 100Khz and often under 20Khz.

 

MHz noise can affect digital circuits. My quad DSD feed is running at 22.5Mhz. The clock in my DAC is at 100Mhz. One can easily imagine that noise at or near these frequencies might have a direct effect on timing and accuracy of these signals.

[Jud]

15 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

Please don't feed the trolls.

 

Yashn's thread is a more welcome place for Objectionist concerns and mocking.

 

 

It was a perfectly serious question, to which pkane gave an answer that told me something I didn't already know (which is why I asked, and why, in general, I'm here - to learn).  I look forward to additional information that I hopefully can understand from anyone who cares to provide it.

[Speedskater]

30 minutes ago, Jud said:

are there ways noise in the MHz frequency range might adversely affect audio that you know of?

Yes! To a high frequency interference signal there are sneak paths for it to enter the circuit. Once inside it can change the bias on an analog stage. Best example might be a cell-phone operating in the GHz range, sending info packets 217 times a second.

[Jud]

7 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

MHz noise will have very little effect on analog components, as these usually operate under 100Khz and often under 20Khz.

 

Would you think there's any possibility of causing noise due to intermodulation, or very likely too low in amplitude if detectable at all given the difference in frequency?

[Jud]

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

Yes! To a high frequency interference signal there are sneak paths for it to enter the circuit. Once inside it can change the bias on an analog stage. Best example might be a cell-phone operating in the GHz range, sending info packets 217 times a second.

 

Thanks!  Another possibility I hadn't thought of.

[Speedskater]

Just now, Jud said:

 

Would you think there's any possibility of causing noise due to intermodulation, or very likely too low in amplitude if detectable at all given the difference in frequency?

Yes!

But that would be for lower frequency noise (well under 100 kHz).

[pkane2001]

8 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Yes! To a high frequency interference signal there are sneak paths for it to enter the circuit. Once inside it can change the bias on an analog stage. Best example might be a cell-phone operating in the GHz range, sending info packets 217 times a second.

 

Not fair -- you are modulating a GHz signal with 217Hz tone 

 

[Speedskater]

4 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Not fair -- you are modulating a GHz signal with 217Hz tone 

 

Nope.

It only transmits a packet 217 times a second. the remainder of the time it's not transmitting. (it's receiving)

[pkane2001]

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

Nope.

It only transmits a packet 217 times a second. the remainder of the time it's not transmitting. (it's receiving)

Sure, but the result is noise consisting of a GHz carrier modulated by 217Hz signal, even if that signal is a square wave.

[Speedskater]

3 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Sure, but the result is noise consisting of a GHz carrier modulated by 217Hz signal, even if that signal is a square wave.

No.

It's very very different.

[pkane2001]

Just now, Speedskater said:

No.

It's very very different.

If you say so.

[Daudio]

31 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Not fair -- you are modulating a GHz signal with 217Hz tone 

 

 

Off-topic thread pollution. Please take it to another thread.

Thank you.

[michaelD]

WOW - we have gone off course big time here.  My original post did not ask about theory of operation it was just  a way for others to express their results with grounding boxes.  In particular Entreq boxes and soon the new Nordost QKore that was just introduced at the Munich show.  Some may even have the Telos boxes that would be interesting also.  Somehow we got way off tangent with this subject.  I you have no experience with these or other grounding boxes please save your comments as they are not being helpful.  If you do by all means lets hear how you got started and why you continue to use them.  

 

Personally I've been listening to my demo more enhanced Entreq setup and I really like what it does.  The note attacks are much crisper, particularity noticeable in the bass and the overall the music is more engaging and real. The other aspect is the darkness of the background.  I already had that with my initial setup with the Silver Tellus connected to the QB8 ground lug and at least for me adding the demo boxes did not enhance that but it really wasy excellant already.

Admittedly there is time needed about a day needed initially and once you disconnect it takes some time for the effect to diminish.  So a good AB is not all that possible and my memory is not as good as it used to be.  However what I'm told about the QKore is that it is immediate on and off so a much better idea of how it effects the overall sound will be much more noticeable.  I have all the models coming so hopefully late next week or over Memorial day weekend I will be having some fun testing.     

[Cornan]

7 minutes ago, michaelD said:

WOW - we have gone off course big time here.  My original post did not ask about theory of operation it was just  a way for others to express their results with grounding boxes.  In particular Entreq boxes and soon the new Nordost QKore that was just introduced at the Munich show.  Some may even have the Telos boxes that would be interesting also.  Somehow we got way off tangent with this subject.  I you have no experience with these or other grounding boxes please save your comments as they are not being helpful.  If you do by all means lets hear how you got started and why you continue to use them.  

 

Personally I've been listening to my demo more enhanced Entreq setup and I really like what it does.  The note attacks are much crisper, particularity noticeable in the bass and the overall the music is more engaging and real. The other aspect is the darkness of the background.  I already had that with my initial setup with the Silver Tellus connected to the QB8 ground lug and at least for me adding the demo boxes did not enhance that but it really wasy excellant already.

Admittedly there is time needed about a day needed initially and once you disconnect it takes some time for the effect to diminish.  So a good AB is not all that possible and my memory is not as good as it used to be.  However what I'm told about the QKore is that it is immediate on and off so a much better idea of how it effects the overall sound will be much more noticeable.  I have all the models coming so hopefully late next week or over Memorial day weekend I will be having some fun testing.     

 

Great to hear that you are enjoying your Entreq setup! ? This is what it is all about. Forget about theories & forget about other people's assumptions. It is your own ears that tells the truth in your setup. I have experiance of Entreqs products and know exactly what you mean. I know what a great improvement it can bring to the table despite what other people say or think about it.

I for one are looking forward to read about your impressions of all the other models! ?

[Speedskater]

1 hour ago, michaelD said:

WOW - we have gone off course big time here.  My original post did not ask about theory of operation it was just  a way for others to express their results with grounding boxes.  In particular Entreq boxes and soon the new Nordost QKore that was just introduced at the Munich show.  Some may even have the Telos boxes that would be interesting also.  Somehow we got way off tangent with this subject.  I you have no experience with these or other grounding boxes please save your comments as they are not being helpful.  If you do by all means lets hear how you got started and why you continue to use them. 

So posts that do not validate or vindicate your opinion or purchase are not permitted?

Theory of operation is a big part of any product.

[Cornan]

10 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Theory of operation is a big part of any product.

 

I like theory's, but they can never beats real life experiance! ?

[Jud]

1 hour ago, michaelD said:

WOW - we have gone off course big time here.  My original post did not ask about theory of operation it was just  a way for others to express their results with grounding boxes.  In particular Entreq boxes and soon the new Nordost QKore that was just introduced at the Munich show.  Some may even have the Telos boxes that would be interesting also.  Somehow we got way off tangent with this subject.  I you have no experience with these or other grounding boxes please save your comments as they are not being helpful.  If you do by all means lets hear how you got started and why you continue to use them.  

 

Personally I've been listening to my demo more enhanced Entreq setup and I really like what it does.  The note attacks are much crisper, particularity noticeable in the bass and the overall the music is more engaging and real. The other aspect is the darkness of the background.  I already had that with my initial setup with the Silver Tellus connected to the QB8 ground lug and at least for me adding the demo boxes did not enhance that but it really wasy excellant already.

Admittedly there is time needed about a day needed initially and once you disconnect it takes some time for the effect to diminish.  So a good AB is not all that possible and my memory is not as good as it used to be.  However what I'm told about the QKore is that it is immediate on and off so a much better idea of how it effects the overall sound will be much more noticeable.  I have all the models coming so hopefully late next week or over Memorial day weekend I will be having some fun testing.     

 

My apologies.  I was curious whether any grounding setups that might have some action with regard to MHz-frequency noise could have some effect in the audible range, and it appears from the responses that they could.

 

But you would like responses from people who actually own these, and I don't, so again, my apologies.

[semente]

23 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

• A box of rocks with just one wire can capture and store excess dollars from the pockets of the gullible audiophile.

 

I wonder how my double insulated CD player and amplifier sound when connected to such a box... 

[Jud]

3 hours ago, Speedskater said:

So posts that do not validate or vindicate your opinion or purchase are not permitted?

Theory of operation is a big part of any product.

 

It's not that he doesn't want conversation that doesn't disagree with his experience, it's that he'd like to chat with folks who've tried or listened to a system with one of these products.  That's the level of friendly conversation he'd like to have.  Nothing wrong with that.

 

If we're interested in having a thread about theory and practice informed by that theory, we can - it's a big forum!

[jabbr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

If we're interested in having a thread about theory and practice informed by that theory, we can - it's a big forum!

 

Best to title a thread appropriately -- the title is provocative -- "Proper grounding " means we agree?? 

[Jud]

56 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Best to title a thread appropriately -- the title is provocative -- "Proper grounding " means we agree?? 

 

So do you want to start a thread called "*Really* Properly Grounding A System"?

[Speedskater]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

It's not that he doesn't want conversation that doesn't disagree with his experience, it's that he'd like to chat with folks who've tried or listened to a system with one of these products.  That's the level of friendly conversation he'd like to have.  Nothing wrong with that.

So posts that validate or vindicate his opinion or purchase are encouraged?

[Speedskater]

6 hours ago, Cornan said:

I like theory's, but they can never beats real life experiance! ?

You're thinking of detective theory rather than scientific theory.

 

Real life experience better follow scientific theory.

[Ralf11]

the issues arose when someone spoke of deviations from 'theory'

 

there are in fact some deviations for the classical electromagnetic theory but they are limited to QED, QCD -- AFAIK

 

 

BTW, did anybody see that new magnetic monopole amplifier at the Munich Show?