Proper Grounding a system

[89reksal]

20 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

No, didn't miss it. What it takes you to is this:

http://www.audiosensibility.com/products/groundingdevices.htm#OriginOfDevices

 Ok. I'll assume you're sincere and are unable to follow along.

 

Step 1: Click on that link in the above quote. 

Step 2: Read the first sentence that comes up under the heading "Origin of the Devices" Please read right to the END of the sentence.

Step 3: Left click on the link at the end of that sentence, which is: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/102180-groundside-electrons.html

Step 4: Begin reading

 

Good luck.

[Speedskater]

1 minute ago, YashN said:

Which form of electricity?

That would be all forms of real world electricity.

[Speedskater]

2 minutes ago, YashN said:

 You're not taught everything in class though.

But for this subject, everything you need to know is in the first few chapters of the first year basic electricity course.

[YashN]

Just now, Speedskater said:

That would be all forms of real world electricity.

 

You're mostly taught about one of them though and that's what most of your thinking is based around. NB: I'm not saying the explanation of these 'grounding boxes' is to be found there. What I'm, saying is be careful of your textbook knowledge, especially if your justification of them is that they've been describing 'rules' and 'laws' that have held for decades or centuries. You might be wrong about these for some reasons.

 

Now, I did make a post of those odd 'grounding' boxes, especially regarding the Entreq and the Tripoint ones. Someone looking for more info should check it out as we did have a lot of interesting discussion about it and there were a lot of reference work in the thread too (should be reachable from my Profile -> Threads started, but since the forum design has changed, I'm not sure.

[Daudio]

23 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

That would be almost two centuries of science and engineering reality.

 

Oh, and you speak for all true Scientists and Engineers for the last 200 years ??

 

What I meant was that you have your 'reality', and I have mine. Each of us has our very own private 'reality' composed of all of ones learning, experiences, mistakes, biases, prejudices, expectations, hopes, dreams, etc. And each and every one of these little realities has little-to-maybe-some connection to the big, unknowable, 'Reality' (sometimes called 'objective' reality)

 

I respect John Swenson's and Alex Crispi's 'reality' a lot more then my own, or your seemingly absolutist one.

 

This exchange reminds me of: "Woe be to those of little Imagination" (or something like that...)

 

Get my point ?

 

[YashN]

3 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

But for this subject, everything you need to know is in the first few chapters of the first year basic electricity course.

 

You're still not explaining how these external boxes make the sound better for the people who reported this though.

 

By your own claim above, you should be able to do that easily.

 

So what's your easy technical explanation?

[Speedskater]

6 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

 Ok. I'll assume you're sincere and are unable to follow along.

Step 1: Click on that link in the above quote. 

Step 2: Read the first sentence that comes up under the heading "Origin of the Devices" Please read right to the END of the sentence.

Step 3: Left click on the link at the end of that sentence, which is: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/102180-groundside-electrons.html

Step 4: Begin reading

Good luck.

I first read that thread in May of 2007.  The first post is OK although it has nothing to do with audio circuits. It's the second post from BudP that's totally nuts.

[YashN]

Found the thread and the way to find it definitely has changed with the new forum design (go to profile, click on rightmost 'Content' icon, then on the left bar go down to 'Topic'):

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/24275-ac-filtering-grounding-boxes-linear-psu-and-balanced-power/

 

Quote

During my recent readings, I was reminded of the importance of the Ground Plane in DIY Ham radio circuits. In equipment which has not been designed properly, this is not well implemented. Thus, we often find ourselves with a mix of properly and improperly designed equipment, each with their own grounding scheme, each with either a two-prong power cable or a 3-pronged one.

 

Could this be the explanation why some people report getting much better results using grounding boxes? Take for example two commercial products which are very expensive and out of my budget:

-----

Are our power lines, grounding schemes, power supply units compromised in various ways and greatly spoiling our enjoyment of music?

 

 

[89reksal]

11 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

I first read that thread in May of 2007.  The first post is OK although it has nothing to do with audio circuits. It's the second post from BudP that's totally nuts.

During the intervening seven or so years, have you tried this for yourself? (I also saw some of your posts in a similar vein from four or so years ago on the linked "thousands of posts" Entreq thread. They didn't go over so well there either I see ).

[Speedskater]

3 minutes ago, YashN said:

You're still not explaining how these external boxes make the sound better for the people who reported this though.

By your own claim above, you should be able to do that easily.

So what's your easy technical explanation?

Uncontrolled variables.

Good imagination.

Self-fulling expectations.

Lack of controlled testing.

 

Technical explanation

In most cases they don't do anything, but in a few cases the wires to the box acts as a noise/interference antenna.

[Speedskater]

4 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

During the intervening seven or so years, have you tried this for yourself? .............................

I don't try anything until someone demonstrates a real reason for doing so.

[marce]

1 hour ago, lasker98 said:

Perhaps you missed the second sentence of that paragraph? The one that reads "For more explanation go here."? Where actually clicking on the "here" (which is commonly referred to as a link) takes you to this 54 page discussion:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/102180-groundside-electrons.html

 

As well, some may have missed the link linked to from one of the links in my original post linking to a 2,346 page discussion on the Entreq grounding:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11995-Entreq-Tellus-grounding

 

Lots of reading between those two links that should give you some information. Also for $35.00 Canadian, with a 45 day money back guarantee, you could buy a pair of grounding devices from Audio Sensibility and actually try, risk free, for yourself whether there may be something to this. I realize trying something for yourselves instead of just posting about something you have zero experience with may be too much for some but I'd say $35.00, even without the money back guarantee, is a cheap way to dip your toes in.

 

I dont have zero experience in all this I do EMC and noise reduction every day so I am not just posting. Have also played with similar devices hence my reference to dipoles... 

[89reksal]

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

I don't try anything until someone demonstrates a real reason for doing so.

Wow. That's a very telling response. But at the same time, you have no issues making multiple posts over the years disputing what others have experienced? Even though you have no first hand experience yourself? I'm pretty much at a loss for words, although I'm not surprised.

[marce]

1 hour ago, Daudio said:

 

Obviously you are not able to suspend dis-belief enough to look for any possible causes of this effect. Nor do you credit the existing listening reports. I've been an audiophile long enough to see crazy stuff like we see here to actually develop into some quite real in theory and equipment. Maybe this will, maybe it won't, but In think it deserves a chance, not a blanket dismissal.

 

So, I ask you to please bow out of this discussion If you can't try and dig deeper into the phenomena.  You have made your points and they are noted.

 

 

 

Just the kind of thing that polarizes, shuts down useful discussion, and leads to thread-irrelevance and then thread-death

 

Thanks, and Bye for now.

 

Just because what I say dosen't fit in with your view of reality I don't have to bow out. How rude of you, I have studied this far more than you have over the years, so my comments are as (if not more so) relevant than yours. I've also been an audiophile long enough to learn there is a lot of rubbish promoted and sold to the gullible.

[pkane2001]

22 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

 Ok. I'll assume you're sincere and are unable to follow along.

Sorry, no explanation found at either one of those links. A lot of conjecture and opinions from others on DYIAudio link, and zero explanation on the audiosensibility site. Please try again.

[Speedskater]

3 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

Wow. That's a very telling response. But at the same time, you have no issues making multiple posts over the years disputing what others have experienced? Even though you have no first hand experience yourself? I'm pretty much at a loss for words, although I'm not surprised.

I have yet to see any supportable posts about listening experiences.

[89reksal]

2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Sorry, no explanation found at either one of those links. A lot of conjecture and opinions from others on DYIAudio link, and zero explanation on the audiosensibility site. Please try again.

"You can lead a horse to water...."

You're on your own from here.

[Speedskater]

17 minutes ago, YashN said:

Found the thread and the way to find it definitely has changed with the new forum design (go to profile, click on rightmost 'Content' icon, then on the left bar go down to 'Topic'):

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/24275-ac-filtering-grounding-boxes-linear-psu-and-balanced-power/

There are about 1400 posts in that thread. Which post # might that be?

[Daudio]

9 minutes ago, marce said:

How rude of you

 

How rude is it to repeatedly attempt to shut down any discussion into possible explanations for this possible phenomena ? And not even politely, as I tried with you.

 

You have made your points and aren't adding anything more to advance the discussion. How about just moving on ?  You have achieved your goal, as the non-scientific, foolish believers, have been properly chastised   

 

[marce]

8 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

How rude is it to repeatedly attempt to shut down any discussion into possible explanations for this possible phenomena ?

 

You have made your points and aren't adding anything more to advance the discussion. How about just moving on ?  You have achieved your goal, as the non-scientific, foolish believers, have been properly chastised   

I have tried to bring some reality and links to basic understanding of how these things work, are you responding in kind with any scientific or engineering input, NO, just asking me to butt out because you don't like (or have not read) the facts I am presenting. If you don't discuss it from a standpoint based on known physics how can you ever discuss it. There is no explanation for how its works it dose not as stated, where are some measurements from the designer, there are none just the usual head in the sand audiophile reply, measurements don't matter. Sorry but when it comes to noise measurements do matter, it how we know its working. If you come up with an explanation of how you think it works I and others will revue it then post our views and comments backed up by further science based information to either prove or disprove your theory, that's how this sort of thing works once you get outside the playground. Just because reality does not fit your viewpoint you cannot dismiss it.

[Speedskater]

24 minutes ago, Daudio said:

How rude is it to repeatedly attempt to shut down any discussion into possible explanations for this possible phenomena ? And not even politely, as I tried with you.

.................................

And the possible explanations might be?

[Daudio]

1 minute ago, marce said:

There is no explanation for how its works it dose not as stated

 

Exactly. I do do accept the 'given explanation' as (only) implied by the label "Grounding Box", and am looking for better ones, explanations that may be amenable to some form of testing (including listening tests)

 

That is my point, and to be frank, IMO you can either help with that, or butt out (and wait for any possible explanations to be developed, before returning to criticize)

 

If you have the imagination, and maybe a broader technical knowledge then your specific, narrow, field implies, you could help advance our knowledge here.

 

But, if you cannot possible see any 'reality' here, why waste your valuable time ?

 

You have already mentioned possible 'antenna' effects involved. We might couple that with some interesting shielding configurations discussed by JS recently, and perhaps that might lead somewhere. But any discussion like that has been drowned out by stupid, boilerplate, objective/subjective posturing and noise posts.

 

You want to help, or hurt ?

 

[Cornan]

53 minutes ago, YashN said:

Found the thread and the way to find it definitely has changed with the new forum design (go to profile, click on rightmost 'Content' icon, then on the left bar go down to 'Topic'):

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/24275-ac-filtering-grounding-boxes-linear-psu-and-balanced-power/

 

 

 

Yeah, that was a great thread @YashN!

Well worth reading from start to finish! ? Nice to see you around btw. I almost started a thread "Where did YashN go?" ?

[Daudio]

5 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

And the possible explanations might be?

 

See above post for a start. And what do you have to contribute ??

 

Do we need a formal Brainstorming session here ? Or do we have enough smart, educated folks to set aside the critical side of their brain for a moment, and look for serious alternate theory's ?

 

[Speedskater]

2 minutes ago, Daudio said:

See above post for a start. And what do you have to contribute ??

Which post has possible explanations?

 

I answered that about an hour ago.

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

just noticed that posts don't have a post number.