Barton Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 * This may not be the best forum for this topic, it involves LPS-1 but not exclusively so no problem if moved* I know a big component of LPS-1 design is mains noise suppression. Due to the increased resolution of the mR i've noticed a significant change in sound quality when my heating circuit is on. First background- I have a teddy pardo system (DAC, Pre, and mono blocks). Teddy's PS circuit is know for noise rejection (I think). I wired my entire house myself. There are 2 dedicated 20A circuits for the stereo, the Dac and pre are on one and the monobocks the other. A laptop, the LPS-1, and a sonictransporter are on a third general room circuit. I made sure motors and the rooms with switching power supplies are on the opposite split phase as the audio circuits. My house is super insulated and despite being in Montana and 3,000 sq/ft has only 5,800 watts of resistive matt heating circuits in a concrete floor for all heating. The foundation does not touch earth so there is no ufer but there are 4 ground rods and two bondings to the buried copper water line. Anyhow when the heat is on there is a significant degradation in sound quality, Subjectively taking 50% of the sound improvement of the mR away (compared to computer usb to DAC). I don't know which component or if all are being affected by the noise. The primary heating circuit is 3,200 watts which means 1,600 on the same bus as the audio circuits. I've read all resistors make noise but have no way to quantify this. I doubt there is much in the way of voltage drop, every circuit is overbuilt to the meter. I'm more curious than anything about what is going on. If this is affecting my setup it probably is others perhaps unknowingly. Anything that heats with electricity could work the same way; water heaters, light bulbs, dishwashers, snow melters, etc. I'm wondering if any sort of filtering device can be put on the heating circuit as I'm skeptical about power conditioners on the audio circuit. Any insights/ ideas? Link to comment
JohnSwenson Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Barton said: * This may not be the best forum for this topic, it involves LPS-1 but not exclusively so no problem if moved* I know a big component of LPS-1 design is mains noise suppression. Due to the increased resolution of the mR i've noticed a significant change in sound quality when my heating circuit is on. First background- I have a teddy pardo system (DAC, Pre, and mono blocks). Teddy's PS circuit is know for noise rejection (I think). I wired my entire house myself. There are 2 dedicated 20A circuits for the stereo, the Dac and pre are on one and the monobocks the other. A laptop, the LPS-1, and a sonictransporter are on a third general room circuit. I made sure motors and the rooms with switching power supplies are on the opposite split phase as the audio circuits. My house is super insulated and despite being in Montana and 3,000 sq/ft has only 5,800 watts of resistive matt heating circuits in a concrete floor for all heating. The foundation does not touch earth so there is no ufer but there are 4 ground rods and two bondings to the buried copper water line. Anyhow when the heat is on there is a significant degradation in sound quality, Subjectively taking 50% of the sound improvement of the mR away (compared to computer usb to DAC). I don't know which component or if all are being affected by the noise. The primary heating circuit is 3,200 watts which means 1,600 on the same bus as the audio circuits. I've read all resistors make noise but have no way to quantify this. I doubt there is much in the way of voltage drop, every circuit is overbuilt to the meter. I'm more curious than anything about what is going on. I'm wondering if any sort of filtering device can be put on the heating circuit as I'm skeptical about power conditioners on the audio circuit. Any insights/ ideas? Does your resistive heating system have proportional control? If it does it is probably using a circuit similar to a lighting dimmer, these can generate a huge amount of noise on the AC line. If you don't know if yours is, can you find a manufacturer and model number of your system? we can look it up and see what might be happening. John S. Link to comment
Barton Posted April 28, 2017 Author Share Posted April 28, 2017 No, it definitely does not. There is a simple dumb thermostat switch, not even a relay. There is so much latency because of thermal mass that it typically switches on for at least 6 hours at a time. These are the mats (not exact wattage) http://www.warmyourfloor.com/suntouch-tapemat-240v-36-x-16-8-24001636.html Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 well, whenever it turn on there will still be emf and the wiring network could be acting like a big, bit antenna are there any zones you could turn off to test? in not maybe a 60 Hz choke would help Link to comment
Barton Posted April 28, 2017 Author Share Posted April 28, 2017 Hmm, it is easy to turn off any zone. That's interesting the other circuits could be picking up emf from the heating circuits. Makes me worried for my balls! Anyway how do you propose testing short of an oscilloscope? There are two zones, and no other circuits in the floors. this? http://www.q-tran.com/products/power-supply/q6s Link to comment
Daudio Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 57 minutes ago, Barton said: emf from the heating circuits... Anyway how do you propose testing short of an oscilloscope? Yeah, I was thinking radiated EMF too Here is an EMF Meter that might do the job, unless you need something more sensitive ? Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 easiest thing is to turn off various zones and listen Link to comment
Speedskater Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 If the heating system is wired correctly (that is the Hot and Neutral are in close proximity to each other for the entire run) there won't be an EMF problem more that 3 inches from the run. Try running all your audio components from one wall outlet, you may have to turn units on one at a time and full volume may trip the breaker but this is just a test. A "Kill-a-Watt" AC line meter may have interesting changes with the heating on & off. If you feel safe, measuring Neutral to Safety Ground voltage at all the wall outlets may also be interesting. Link to comment
Speedskater Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Thinking about it more. A mat heating system very well could have a large EMF field. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 yes, depending on the orientation, it will not act like a point source or even a line source but can approximate a plane source of EMF - so will be hard to attenuate by distance but maybe a zone or 2 can be turned off for good effect another idea is to heat things up and then rely on the thermal "mass" to keep the house warm during the listening period Link to comment
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