Blue Jeans Cable Cat 6a

[asdf1000]

Hi all

 

I know scattered across many threads is comment that the BJC Cat 6a has a floating shield design, so there should be no groundloops through this ethernet cable at all.

 

From those posts around the forum, my understanding is the shields are physically and electrically disconnected from the end connectors.

 

I've sent an email to BJC themselves asking this but haven't got a reply.

 

A question for the cable experts here: has anyone been able to verify that the shielding is disconnected at the ends?

 

And has anyone tried to do a little test to introduce a groundloop through the cable and measure that groundloops are completely broken with this Cat 6a cable (if that's easy enough to measure)?

 

Thanks in advance !

 

 

[plissken]

According to BJC they fully float the shield. They make a great cable enjoy.

[asdf1000]

Just now, plissken said:

According to BJC they fully float the shield. They make a great cable enjoy.

 

Hi yes I've seen that comment a lot around here ("BJC said"....).

 

No reason to not believe it of course, but just wanted to ask if anyone has verified

 

[asdf1000]

I know their Cat 6a cable is from Belden's bonded-pair 10GX series

 

I've had a look at Belden's spec for this cable but don't understand anything well enough to look at the design details to say "yep, no groundloops possible with this cable"

 

There are plenty of experts here though and I'm guessing someone's looked at Beldens papers and has a much better understanding of this cable than me

 

Thanks again in advance

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi yes I've seen that comment a lot around here ("BJC said"....).

 

No reason to not believe it of course, but just wanted to ask if anyone has verified

 

 

This isn't hear-say. According to Mr. Denke, they float the shield.

[sockpit]

Somewhere buried in the threads about Ethernet cables is also testimony to the effect that someone at BJC recommended their cat 6 over their cat 6a cables.  

 

I forget who posted it, but they included the BJC employee's reasons why plain 6 is better.  I doubt it matters that much, but as long as we are splitting hairs I just thought I'd remind us of this little "controversy".

[rickca]

3 minutes ago, sockpit said:

Somewhere buried in the threads about Ethernet cables is also testimony to the effect that someone at BJC recommended their cat 6 over their cat 6a cables.  

 

I forget who posted it, but they included the BJC employee's reasons why plain 6 is better.  I doubt it matters that much, but as long as we are splitting hairs I just thought I'd remind us of this little "controversy".

That was @jtwrace.  

[asdf1000]

Thanks gents. Definitely splitting hairs but it would be interesting to get the reason why they recommend Cat 6 over Cat 6a - at least it will be in an easy to find thread later for newcomers to BJC ethernet cables.

 

EDIT: I just found this after some extensive searching:

Blue Jeans Cables response

It’s a bit complicated- basically 6A has to meet certain requirements unrelated to signal transfer that don’t really apply to anyone other than large data centers, and those requirements lead to changes that have a negative impact on signal transfer. So a good CAT6 will actually pass higher frequencies then equivalent 6A, but cannot be named as such.

-Jeff (BJC)

 

Cheers again in advance

 

[plissken]

Honestly it doesn't matter. I still run a lot of 5e. It's good for GB Ethernet, it certifies out a lot easier.

 

6A is pretty much a data center cable and indeed it's not intended for home use.

 

In my test of 315 foot of $0.30 / foot CAT 5e vs 12 foot of $27.50 foot WireWorld Starlight CAT8 both had Ping times of less than 1ms averaged over 500 pings and both reached sustained, direct workstation to workstation, transfers of 107MB / Second.

 

The 315 foot was just a huge pile on the floor.

 

Next I captured tracks in realtime to my ADC and posted them here and not one member here could tell the difference.

[asdf1000]

33 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Thanks gents. Definitely splitting hairs but it would be interesting to get the reason why they recommend Cat 6 over Cat 6a - at least it will be in an easy to find thread later for newcomers to BJC ethernet cables.

 

EDIT: I just found this after some extensive searching:

Blue Jeans Cables response

It’s a bit complicated- basically 6A has to meet certain requirements unrelated to signal transfer that don’t really apply to anyone other than large data centers, and those requirements lead to changes that have a negative impact on signal transfer. So a good CAT6 will actually pass higher frequencies then equivalent 6A, but cannot be named as such.

-Jeff (BJC)

 

Cheers again in advance

 

 

In addition to the above, I also have been PM'ing a bit of a guru about this and they think the shielding of the Cat 6a Belden (and most ethernet cables) isn't done correctly, and that it may actually negatively affect the signal. Although they also mention there is a semi-simple modification you can do to the Belden Cat 6a (BJC Cat 6a) that makes the shielding more effective without negatively affecting the signal.

 

I don't want to name them but will invite them to participate here if they wish.

 

Without this modification to the Cat 6a cable, their recommendation is also Blue Jean Cable's unshielded Cat 6, not 6a

 

 

[plissken]

8 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

In addition to the above, I also have been PM'ing a bit of a guru about this and they think the shielding of the Cat 6a Belden (and most ethernet cables) isn't done correctly, and that it may actually negatively affect the signal. Although they also mention there is a semi-simple modification you can do to the Belden Cat 6a (BJC Cat 6a) that makes the shielding more effective without negatively affecting the signal.

 

I would want to ask your source what about it isn't correct since they way you shield depends as there are a few ways of doing this for certain scenarios. Not one shield type serves all needs.

 

8 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

I don't want to name them but will invite them to participate here if they wish.

 

Without this modification to the Cat 6a cable, their recommendation is also Blue Jean Cable's unshielded Cat 6, not 6a

 

 

 

UTP CAT6 is extremely noise resistant above 30Mhz and noise immune below according to Siemons "The Antenna Myth"

[Speedskater]

I would think that Kurt Danke at Blue Jeans Cable is the go-to expert on digital cables.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-your-cat6-a-dog.htm

http://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2011/mar_lampen/

 

Steve Lampen at Belden Cable is also very knowledgeable.

http://www.belden.com/blog/searchresults.cfm?authorID=1000035&postedby=Steve Lampen&blogID=0

[mikey8811]

Hi am due to get some patch cables in a few days and am wondering about whether to get CAT6a or CAT6 from BJC.

 

Is there anyone here who has compared them?

 

Thanks

[plissken]

7 minutes ago, mikey8811 said:

Hi am due to get some patch cables in a few days and am wondering about whether to get CAT6a or CAT6 from BJC.

 

Is there anyone here who has compared them?

 

Thanks

 

Get CAT6. It will be a bit cheaper and the cable is more flexible. What is meant by comparison?

[WXY]

Without resorting to the expensive ethernet cables or going optical, I have recently replaced all my 'short' Leviton Cat6 patch cables with Belden Cat6+ bonded-pair ones:

 

https://www.belden.com/docs/upload/NP279.pdf

 

I think these are similar to the BJC Bonded-pair Cat6. They are very well made (assembled in Mexico vs Made in China like most), they are more expensive than the regular non-bonded Belden, around $6 vs $15 on ebay for 7ft.

 

Here is the video that got me thinking:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7QEuD0Xb6I

 

I guess the key is the short length between your router/switches to your equipment, and that the damage is done even in a stasis state as long as the cable is bent.

 

Anyone else have tried these or the BJC vs the regular stuff?

[Speedskater]

Many types of cable have a minimum turn radius. But it might not be easy to find that spec.

By bent, do you mean a very small radius turn?

* * * * * * * * * *

The spec for the first Belden Cat6a cable that I found.

Min. Bend Radius/Minor Axis:1.100 in.

Min. Bend/Installation: 2.500 in

Min. Ben.

[WXY]

Right, we are really just talking about patch cables here and I doubt even Belden will publish min. turning radius. The point is as stated on the video - Bonded Pair vs. Non Bonded.

 

If you watch that video from Belden, you can see the distortion even without squeezing the cables. The radius of the non-bonded patch cable in the video doesn't look ridiculously small, looks just like anything I've seen at home or office.

 

I didn't know there is a difference between bonded vs non-bonded pair until this video. I guess there is no sense of buying non-bonded if we need to buy some patch cables, at least not for the short ones according to the video. I am thinking about replacing my long 50' one as well with BJC Cat6, a small price relative to everything else in this hobby.

 

I just want to see if anyone could share his/her experience with these Belden or BJC bonded pair.

[Speedskater]

Luckily Cat6 is way over-kill for digital audio cables, but in any case would stay with Belden and BJC.

But these are digital cables, ether they work or they don't (moment by moment). If two cables sound different, then one is defective.

[WXY]

Skater, no offense. But another causal statement taunting the use of quality digital cables? So you are saying the idea of Bonded-pair vs Non Bonded is flawed? Doesn't that video prove otherwise? That not all digital cables are created equal?

 

I think there is misconception with non-believers out there regarding the quality of digital cables (and similarly for power cords). SQ (in this case) is not just about transferring the binary code from point A to point B correctly. It's also important that the signal being transferred with as little pollution or distortion as possible. I think Belden has done a convincing job demonstrating just that in the video. It may or may not be audible at this level, perhaps depending on the proximity of your network equipment to your main system.

 

There is a long thread spanning years of discussion on optical network on this site, which still serves the same fundamental purpose of transferring binary data through network. Are you saying these people are all wrong?

 

I digress, not here to debate. Anyone else have tried using Bonded-pair vs. Non-Bonded?

 

[WXY]

There is a good deal on eBay for 3' Belden Bonded-Pair Cat6+ Patch, only $3 each and free shipping! BJC charges $9.75 for 3'. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322544795823

 

 

 

 

 

[Speedskater]

3 hours ago, WXY said:

Skater, no offense. But another causal statement taunting the use of quality digital cables? So you are saying the idea of Bonded-pair vs Non Bonded is flawed? Doesn't that video prove otherwise? That not all digital cables are created equal?

Where would you get that idea? Of course not, Belden has the best cable engineering.

What I wrote is:

Digital audio doesn't need a high speed cable like that.

[KingRex]

I have not compared Belden to Belden, but I can easily hear the improvements from 5E to 6.  Enough so with cheap Home D wire that I am going to order some BJC cat 6.  Why not.  It's the least expensive piece of anything in my audio chain, and it has shown to make a very audible difference.  At least from 5E to 6.  

[plissken]

I challenge you to a blind evaluation. Both 5e and 6 are far more capable than anything audio needs. Both can do 10GBe (1200 MB/s).

[KingRex]

A few wise people have told me "trust your ears".  I have tuned my system to a point where I return from listening to $300k, $500k and up systems and find I like mine as much if not better than others.  It's not as huge, but goodness it sings well.   I know it has a lot to do with all the little changes and small gains I get from tweeks such as a little better cat cable and less connection points.  No thanks to a blind test.  I'm going to continue to digest tips I get from others, decide which to try and keep those that I find a betterment.  We all pick our paths.  

[jabbr]

Belden makes bonded copper Ethernet cable which maintains constant impedance despite twists and turns in the cable.

The so-called benefits for audio of Cat 6 over Cat 6a are not for audio over Ethernet, rather using the "mediatwist" bonded 100 ohm cable to carry audio signals i.e. an interconnect.

Use whichever you like.

The new REVConnect connector system is really state of the art.