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ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)


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For all the people wanting to use an ISO REGEN with a SU-1 and an LPS-1, I just talked to Alex about this. He has done it, the recipe is:

 

Set the LPS-1 to 5V, use a Y-cable to power both at 5V. (see the DIY DC Cable thread on how to make your own) The VBUS output regulator will be undervolted so it won't actually be regulating (but the regulator in the LPS-1 is the same as in the ISO REGEN). The measured voltage is 4.95 V on the VBUS coming out of the ISO REGEN, this is fine to drive the upstream side of the SU-1.

 

This will preclude the isolation in the SU-1, but the isolation in the ISO REGEN will still be working.

 

If it were me I would get the external power kit from the manufacturer and cut off the internal cable, leaving pigtails on the both connectors. Then use a piece of 4S6 starquad to replace the cable you just cut off.

 

John S.

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12 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

For all the people wanting to use an ISO REGEN with a SU-1 and an LPS-1, I just talked to Alex about this. He has done it, the recipe is:

 

Set the LPS-1 to 5V, use a Y-cable to power both at 5V. (see the DIY DC Cable thread on how to make your own) The VBUS output regulator will be undervolted so it won't actually be regulating (but the regulator in the LPS-1 is the same as in the ISO REGEN). The measured voltage is 4.95 V on the VBUS coming out of the ISO REGEN, this is fine to drive the upstream side of the SU-1.

 

This will preclude the isolation in the SU-1, but the isolation in the ISO REGEN will still be working.

 

If it were me I would get the external power kit from the manufacturer and cut off the internal cable, leaving pigtails on the both connectors. Then use a piece of 4S6 starquad to replace the cable you just cut off.

 

John S.

 

 

Hi John,

 

What "power kit from manufacturer", where can i find it?

 

Best

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11 hours ago, Indydan said:

 

Will Audiostream and Digital audio review (Darko) be getting review units in this first batch? :D

 

No reviewer will get an ISO REGEN sooner than any of today's first-batch buyers.  While we have all seen manufacturers make big press review and advertising campaigns in advance of the public getting the product, that is the antithesis of our approach.

 

What all of you users--with all your various systems--have to say is far more important to us than what magazine reviewers write.  And frankly, the word-of- keyboard among you is more effective for sales.  9_9

 

The truth is, a good review here or there, while effective for exposure (it's like having a one week free advertisement on a home page), reviews rarely move the needle on sales unless a series of raves all come out around the same time.

How do I know this?  Well, at Hovland Comany we received over a dozen full-color, full-cover print reviews in the biggest audio magazines in the world with massive praise (the cover photos were because of the sexy industrial design--see some pics here:)

 

But rarely did those great reviews result in any surge in sales.  

Conversly, and more recently, the times when trusted "influencers" Paul McGowan (PS Audio) and Jim Smith (getbettersound.com) mentioned praised the USB REGEN, we saw the biggest single sales days since that product's launch.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I certainly understand from the buyers' perspective the desire to read reviews of a prospective product before purchase.  And indeed those will come.  We just prefer to have a base of happy users to amplify whatever the press writes.

By the way, I've already received review unit requests from six web/print mags. And 3 reviewers were smart enough to just jump in and order an ISO REGEN with the rest of today.

 

Lastly, there are a lot of cynics out there who think audio manufacturers pay for reviews.  I can assure you, that is total BS.  And we don't give products away for free.  We do however offer an "industry accommodation discount" to reviewers who wish to keep the device for use in their own system after the review.  That is standard practice and should not be construed as unethical.  Virtually no audio reviewer makes their living writing reviews.  Without some accommodations most reviewer reference systems would be pretty weak. (BTW, Michael Lavorgna of Audiostream obtained an UltraCap LPS-1 via full price web order and then after his review declined my offer for a discount!  I had a nice bottle of bourbon shipped to him.)

 

Anyway, back to tech talk.

Thanks to John for pitching in today as I battle my e-mail and logistics and get things moving for both first and second batch production.

 

And of course another big thanks to all who put their trust--and their money--in UpTone Audio products.  This will be a fun and musical ride for us all! :D

 

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10 hours ago, jos said:

 

I am very sure they will get one for a review, because both sites are very important selling points for Uptone Audio. I wonder why other magazines don't write about this device. Perhaps Uptone Audio is not a company with enough money to advertise in those magazines, like HiFi News, Audio, Stereoplay and so on. Or am I wrong?

 

Please see my above reply regarding rewiews.  Advertising money has nothing to do with them.

 

And on the topic of advertising, while we certainly could pour some cash into some print or web ads, to-date we have yet to spend a dime on advertising, with the sole exception being the $3K/year we pay to sponsor this forum here at Computer Audiophile (where I personally have been a member since just about three months after its founding; CA is coming up on 10 years--wow!).

 

That may change this summer after the first couple of batches of ISO REGENs are shipped out.  Both the UltraCap LPS-1 and the ISO REGEN are stellar pieces that lend themselves to be promoted together. And while we will probably advertise at the high-traffic Head-Fi (their metrics are higher than several of the next biggest audio sites COMBINED), I can promise @The Computer Audiophilethat here at CA is where we will place our first ads.  I'm going to "dance with the one that brung me" as they say! B|

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Alex,

HeadFi throws a lot of Head Gear promotiotional materials and products, which arguably keeps people coming back? Would it be possible for you to do the same in CA and make CA this new pit stop for other non CAS people too? 

Qnap NAS (LPS) >UA ETHER REGEN (BG7TBL Master Clock) > Grimm MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui /Meridian 808.3> Wavac EC300B >Tannoy Canterbury SE

 

HP Rig ++ >Woo WES/ > Stax SR-009, Audeze LCD2

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Just ordered my ISO Regen/LPS-1 bundle from Vortexbox UK.  Also ordered the 2.5 software upgrade for my microRendu.  The mR is currently sharing power from an LPS-1 with my downstream fmc, so I thought it best to get a second LPS-1 for the ISO Regen.  I still expect to get a Paul Hynes PS (probably multi-rail SR7) at some point but want first to settle on my components before committing to that.  I'll be looking closely at how well received the SOtM sMS-200 Ultra is once that it is out.

Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se

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2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Please see my above reply regarding rewiews.  Advertising money has nothing to do with them.

 

And on the topic of advertising, while we certainly could pour some cash into some print or web ads, to-date we have yet to spend a dime on advertising, with the sole exception being the $3K/year we pay to sponsor this forum here at Computer Audiophile (where I personally have been a member since just about three months after its founding; CA is coming up on 10 years--wow!).

 

That may change this summer after the first couple of batches of ISO REGENs are shipped out.  Both the UltraCap LPS-1 and the ISO REGEN are stellar pieces that lend themselves to be promoted together. And while we will probably advertise at the high-traffic Head-Fi (their metrics are higher than several of the next biggest audio sites COMBINED), I can promise @The Computer Audiophilethat here at CA is where we will place our first ads.  I'm going to "dance with the one that brung me" as they say! B|

 

Hypothetical question for Alex or John, IF I had $300+ to spend, which would I be better off buying, a $380 LPS-1 for my present day USB Regen/Meanwell or a $310  ISO Regen to go with my Meanwell SMPS? Just curious,,, just in case something changes in my life.

 

Cheers,

Robin

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Hi Alex @Superdad (or John @JohnSwenson)

 

I asked about eye pattern measurements of the ISO REGEN vs original USB REGEN. Completely understand if you're not yet ready to publish measurements but it would be nice.

 

But in the meantime you've mentioned that the ISO REGEN has much better USB signal integrity than the USB REGEN (and everything else).

 

How about output jitter performance? Is ISO REGEN's output jitter performance better than USB REGEN? You did mention jitter issues during the design phase associated with this new jittery isolator chip I recall.

 

If USB signal integrity is better and output jitter is lower and output noise is lower (maybe related to jitter) than the original USB REGEN and leakage currents are blocked (like an Intona) then this is the holy grail.

 

Appreciate if you can share some technical stuff on the above, not really in comparison to any other products (I was naughty for mentioning Intona there) but specifically against the original USB REGEN.

 

Cheers, Sean.

 

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10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

If it were me I would get the external power kit from the manufacturer and cut off the internal cable, leaving pigtails on the both connectors. Then use a piece of 4S6 starquad to replace the cable you just cut off.

 

John S.

This exactly what I am going to do.  Man I need to brush up on my soldering skills.  Maybe I will just use some caps instead.  Much easier though not has pretty looking.

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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5 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Please see my above reply regarding rewiews.  Advertising money has nothing to do with them.

 

And on the topic of advertising, while we certainly could pour some cash into some print or web ads, to-date we have yet to spend a dime on advertising, with the sole exception being the $3K/year we pay to sponsor this forum here at Computer Audiophile (where I personally have been a member since just about three months after its founding; CA is coming up on 10 years--wow!).

 

That may change this summer after the first couple of batches of ISO REGENs are shipped out.  Both the UltraCap LPS-1 and the ISO REGEN are stellar pieces that lend themselves to be promoted together. And while we will probably advertise at the high-traffic Head-Fi (their metrics are higher than several of the next biggest audio sites COMBINED), I can promise @The Computer Audiophilethat here at CA is where we will place our first ads.  I'm going to "dance with the one that brung me" as they say! B|

Thanks for your answer. CA is a great place to be for our hobby and early adapters, but a good review in, for example, HiFi News, like the JitterBug got, will be a game changer for your company. And I hope this will happen!

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20 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

Did anyone take delivery of the ISO Regen yet?

 

from the very first post in this thread:

The first 250 units will ship May 16th–May 19th.

Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2  > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3  power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

 

headphones system:

Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones

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14 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

Wonder how the ISO Regen will fare against the new iFi iGalvanic3.0... would be good to see some reviews and direct comparisons.

 

Did anyone take delivery of the ISO Regen yet?

 

I do have the same question, which only time will tell,

Based on past performances, would say the Isoregen may be better? I have had the Ipurifier, the IUSB, etc. In the past and still respect them very much.

 

On a physical part,if you are using the ISO with Rendu, they can be more easily tethered via fixed connecters, which will perhaps be a bit better with the Ifi as they seems to be physically bigger.

 

The IsoRegen only ships in May. Maybe?

Qnap NAS (LPS) >UA ETHER REGEN (BG7TBL Master Clock) > Grimm MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui /Meridian 808.3> Wavac EC300B >Tannoy Canterbury SE

 

HP Rig ++ >Woo WES/ > Stax SR-009, Audeze LCD2

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1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

Hi Alex @Superdad (or John @JohnSwenson)

 

I asked about eye pattern measurements of the ISO REGEN vs original USB REGEN. Completely understand if you're not yet ready to publish measurements but it would be nice.

 

John did not do captures of eye pattern tests during development.  It was a busy time back then (he was still working full time at the big ASIC chip company), and as everyone knows has since been moving and his lab is completely packed up.

 

Quote

But in the meantime you've mentioned that the ISO REGEN has much better USB signal integrity than the USB REGEN (and everything else).

 

Indeed our use of both the Crystek 575, and the particular USB 3.1 hub chip we chose, have improved SI.  More importantly the SQ impacts of this were very audible to us.  And not just to us:. Both @Jud and @lmitche here received pairs of very early beta units where the only difference between them was that one used the USB 2.0 USB chip of the original REGEN, and the other version had the 3.1 chip we had already selected--partially for compatibility--from among the major brands.  The pieces they received we marked only as "M" and "G", and we told them nothing else.  Within moments of separately playing them, they both chose as sounding much better the lettered box that had the 3.1 hub chip.

And by the way, none of the units we had sent them had the Crystek 575 clock as we had only 3 samples of the 575 (a special order in the required 24.0/25.0MHz rates), and we had a small run of 5 each of two board types so an apples-to-apples comparison could,be made. 

 

Quote

How about output jitter performance? Is ISO REGEN's output jitter performance better than USB REGEN?

 

John can correct me if I am wrong, but for high speed USB (and Ethernet), jitter is just a component of signal integrity (as is amplitude, slew/edge rate, and noise) and is seen as part of an eye-pattern test.  I do not think traditional jitter measurements apply (as if there is such thing--I laugh when I see the designed-for-S/PDIF J-test applied to USB devices).

Besides, the really serious hardware for measuring clock and DAC jittter the right way is crazy expensive, though one of John's first projects once he gets resettled is to finish the design of an affordable replica of the famous John Miles Time Pod (known also as from first Symmeticom, and now from Microsemi for about $30K).  It is a project he has been anxious to complete for some time--along with another innovative measurement box.  There is a more than decent chance that UpTone Audio will someday offer some audio engineer targeted test equipment, since we have discussed buildability/useability considerations for these projects since the beginning.

 

Quote

You did mention jitter issues during the design phase associated with this new jittery isolator chip I recall.

 

Yes, the Silanna isolator chip adds amounts of jitter quite similar to what all traditional digital isolator chips do (the sort from TI, SilLabs, NVE, etc.) as used AFTER the USB input stages in many DACs/DDCs.  About 500ps as I recall.

 

 

Quote

 

If USB signal integrity is better and output jitter is lower and output noise is lower (maybe related to jitter) than the original USB REGEN and leakage currents are blocked (like an Intona) then this is the holy grail.

 

That's what we think, but we will leave references to the "grail", fancy coined names for circuits, and flashy graphics to the marketing departments of others.  

 

Quote

Appreciate if you can share some technical stuff on the above, not really in comparison to any other products (I was naughty for mentioning Intona there) but specifically against the original USB REGEN.

 

Cheers, Sean.

 

While I know we will never satisfy your insatiable appetite for product information and gossip Sean,  I hope that my above disclosures keep your belly full for a little while.  The next step is for you to hear the ISO REGEN for yourself.  Did you get an order into the first batch yesterday?9_9 

 

Well, time for me to put the iPad down and get out of bed to start a busy day.

Cheers,

--Alex C.

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3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

John did not do captures of eye pattern tests during development.  It was a busy time back then (he was still working full time at the big ASIC chip company), and as everyone knows has since been moving and his lab is completely packed up.

 

Indeed our use of both the Crystek 575, and the particular USB 3.1 hub chip we chose, have improved SI.  More importantly the SQ impacts of this were very audible to us.  And not just to us:. Both @Jud and @lmitche here received pairs of very early beta units where the only difference between them was that one used the USB 2.0 USB chip of the original REGEN, and the other version had the 3.1 chip we had already selected--partially for compatibility--from among the major brands.  The pieces they received we marked only as "M" and "G", and we told them nothing else.  Within moments of separately playing them, they both chose as sounding much better the lettered box that had the 3.1 hub chip.

And by the way, none of the units we had sent them had the Crystek 575 clock as we had only 3 samples of the 575 (a special order in the required 24.0/25.0MHz rates), and we had a small run of 5 each of two board types so an apples-to-apples comparison could,be made. 

 

 

John can correct me if I am wrong, but for high speed USB (and Ethernet), jitter is just a component of signal integrity (as is amplitude, slew/edge rate, and noise) and is seen as part of an eye-pattern test.  I do not think traditional jitter measurements apply (as if there is such thing--I laugh when I see the designed-for-S/PDIF J-test applied to USB devices).

Besides, the really serious hardware for measuring clock and DAC jittter the right way is crazy expensive, though one of John's first projects once he gets resettled is to finish the design of an affordable replica of the famous John Miles Time Pod (known also as from first Symmeticom, and now from Microsemi for about $30K).  It is a project he has been anxious to complete for some time--along with another innovative measurement box.  There is a more than decent chance that UpTone Audio will someday offer some audio engineer targeted test equipment, since we have discussed buildability/useability considerations for these projects since the beginning.

 

 

Yes, the Silanna isolator chip adds amounts of jitter quite similar to what all traditional digital isolator chips do (the sort from TI, SilLabs, NVE, etc.) as used AFTER the USB input stages in many DACs/DDCs.  About 500ps as I recall.

 

 

 

That's what we think, but we will leave references to the "grail", fancy coined names for circuits, and flashy graphics to the marketing departments of others.  

 

 

While I know we will never satisfy your insatiable appetite for product information and gossip Sean,  I hope that my above disclosures keep your belly full for a little while.  The next step is for you to hear the ISO REGEN for yourself.  Did you get an order into the first batch yesterday?9_9 

 

Well, time for me to put the iPad down and get out of bed to start a busy day.

Cheers,

--Alex C.

 

Wowza, epic reply Alex. Thank you!

 

The only thing that may not have been asked or covered, is how effective did you and John find the isolation function of the new isolator chip. Apart from being jittery does this new chip do it's primary function (isolation) really well and completely block groundloops and leakage currents? I'm guessing that's a big yes otherwise you wouldn't have selected it. It's sad I know but I like reading about this stuff.

 

I was fast asleep at 2am here in Australia unfortunately (there were a few Aussies on here and on Head-Fi and elsewhere that got their order in though) but I think it's definitely a case of when, not if, I get my order in :-)

 

Cheers again and thanks for the continued honesty and transparency here on the CA forum. There are a lot of shy people that just read and don't comment, that greatly appreciate all yours and John's contributions on here.

 

Cheers, Sean.

 

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14 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Wowza, epic reply Alex. Thank you!

 

The only thing that may not have been asked or covered, is how effective did you and John find the isolation function of the new isolator chip. Apart from being jittery does this new chip do it's primary function (isolation) really well and completely block groundloops and leakage currents? I'm guessing that's a big yes otherwise you wouldn't have selected it. It's sad I know but I like reading about this stuff.

 

Amazingly, there was something I meant to say but left out. xD

 

There are a few devices that out there (Coolgear, AllDAQ, and a cheap one from Hong Kong) which use the same Silanna isolator chip we do (we've had the chip since December 2015, but it's use can be problematic for audio--and not just because of the jitter).

Those products use only the isolator (plus a switching regulator across the moat to bus power both sides), and the jitter is super easy to hear!  Actually they are a good lesson in what excess jitter in a USB chain sounds like.

 

 Our hub chip, great clocking, and superior power network design take care of the jitter from the isolator.

 

In other respects, the Silanna chips works very well!

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Such is best practice and part of my business and personal ethic.

And this is precisely why I trust Uptone and am willing to buy their products without any sort of audition.  Business ethics is not an oxymoron.

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Amazingly, there was something I meant to say but left out. xD

 

There are a few devices that out there (Coolgear, AllDAQ, and a cheap one from Hong Kong) which use the same Silanna isolator chip we do (we've had the chip since December 2015, but it's use can be problematic for audio--and not just because of the jitter).

Those products use only the isolator (plus a switching regulator across the moat to bus power both sides), and the jitter is super easy to hear!  Actually they are a good lesson in what excess jitter in a USB chain sounds like.

 

 Our hub chip, great clocking, and superior power network design take care of the jitter from the isolator.

 

 

 

 

Great stuff. Thanks again.

 

PS: when you mentioned my "insatiable appetite for product information and gossip"

 

Production information (in the form facts) = yes, I have an insatiable appetite in understanding what my hard earned dollars are buying - understanding but ultimately trying of course.

 

If by gossip you mean a couple of our PM's, then my appetite is only equal to yours ;-) All said in good fun of course :D

 

Cheers again mate

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12 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

For all the people wanting to use an ISO REGEN with a SU-1 and an LPS-1, I just talked to Alex about this. He has done it, the recipe is:

 

Set the LPS-1 to 5V, use a Y-cable to power both at 5V. (see the DIY DC Cable thread on how to make your own) The VBUS output regulator will be undervolted so it won't actually be regulating (but the regulator in the LPS-1 is the same as in the ISO REGEN). The measured voltage is 4.95 V on the VBUS coming out of the ISO REGEN, this is fine to drive the upstream side of the SU-1.

 

This will preclude the isolation in the SU-1, but the isolation in the ISO REGEN will still be working.

 

If it were me I would get the external power kit from the manufacturer and cut off the internal cable, leaving pigtails on the both connectors. Then use a piece of 4S6 starquad to replace the cable you just cut off.

 

John S.

John, why don't you unsolder the wires from the female DC Chassis plug itself instead of soldering to the wire pigtail?

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

Great stuff. Thanks again.

 

PS: when you mentioned my "insatiable appetite for product information and gossip"

 

Production information (in the form facts) = yes, I have an insatiable appetite in understanding what my hard earned dollars are buying - understanding but ultimately trying of course.

 

If by gossip you mean a couple of our PM's, then my appetite is only equal to yours ;-) All said in good fun of course :D

 

 

Of course Sean! xD

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7 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi Alex @Superdad (or John @JohnSwenson)

 

I asked about eye pattern measurements of the ISO REGEN vs original USB REGEN. Completely understand if you're not yet ready to publish measurements but it would be nice.

 

But in the meantime you've mentioned that the ISO REGEN has much better USB signal integrity than the USB REGEN (and everything else).

 

How about output jitter performance? Is ISO REGEN's output jitter performance better than USB REGEN? You did mention jitter issues during the design phase associated with this new jittery isolator chip I recall.

 

If USB signal integrity is better and output jitter is lower and output noise is lower (maybe related to jitter) than the original USB REGEN and leakage currents are blocked (like an Intona) then this is the holy grail.

 

Appreciate if you can share some technical stuff on the above, not really in comparison to any other products (I was naughty for mentioning Intona there) but specifically against the original USB REGEN.

 

Cheers, Sean.

 

This one is tough. In order to try and measure this sort of thing I bought some older (then) top of the line test equipment from ebay, I can get great eye patterns with this, it is good for looking at the waveforms but useless for jitter measurement. The jitter from any of our devices is lower than what these devices can measure. The waveforms from the ISO REGEN look REALLY good. Unfortunately getting screen dumps is quite a complex task and very time consuming so I don't do it very often. I don't have any saved eye patterns so I'm not going to be able to post anything for quite some time. None of this equipment has USB interfaces that would make it easy, they work off of GPIB interfaces, or in the case of one of my scopes, a floppy! The scope take FOREVER to write an image file to the floppy, then I have to put it in a USB floppy drive to get it into my lab computer. BUT the image format is very old so none of the current programs will read it, so I have to run a series of conversion programs to get it into something that a modern browser can handle. Its a lot of work.

 

As for jitter measurements I have been looking for test equipment that can actually measure the jitter on actual USB data streams and have not found any that will get us into the area that our stuff works at - for any price. The ones that exist are designed for standards compliance not characterization at very low jitter levels.  So I'm designing my own. Unfortunately I can't start working on that until the new lab is set up, and then I will have lots of things to work on, so realistically it is most likely going to be a year before I have that device up and running. THEN I can actually measure the USB jitter. Oh yeah, the existing differential probes aren't good enough for this so I will have to build my own as well!

 

John S.

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