ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)

[ElviaCaprice]

1 hour ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Agreed.  But I do think I've provided an answer to some driving their DAC via a Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 > USB cable > ISO REGEN. Would a microRendu improve upon this?  At this point I'd have to say "hell yes! run out and get one now - along with a second USPCB - and your mind will be blown".

But what we really wanted to know.  Does a computer with just an ISO Regen and two USPCB's on each side to a DAC sound as good, better or worse than a mR added to the system? 

[rajacat]

5 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

But what we really wanted to know.  Does a computer with just an ISO Regen and two USPCB's on each side to a DAC sound as good, better or worse than a mR added to the stream? 

+1   Yes! That's the really interesting question. 

[austinpop]

42 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

But what we really wanted to know.  Does a computer with just an ISO Regen and two USPCB's on each side to a DAC sound as good, better or worse than a mR added to the system? 

 

You guys keep asking this question, but what if he says it's still worse? Then next you'll be questioning whether his computer is an "optimized server." And on and on.

 

My point is - first establish an experimental environment where you agree beforehand that the result will actually be meaningful to you, before asking people to go off and spend their valuable time to run comparisons for you. In this particular instance, perhaps you should first be asking @kennyb123 about his computer to determine if it meets the bar for you.

[R1200CL]

15 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

So maybe the buying decision comes down to first assessing whether one can connect their computer directly to their DAC using a USPC

 

Dissagree a bit. If a cable is needed purchase the Ghent Audio USB JSSG cable. It's very good. 

 

You sound in any case be able to use the uspcb between your ISO regen and DAC. 

Unless you need a mini USB. 

Then again Ghent will rescue you ?

 

I've asked Alex several times to make a USPCB with a USB mini interface. 

 

Time will tell 

[ted_b]

My take (only 2 weeks old) is that the double USPCB approach, that which removes a classic high end USB cable from the path (in my case a TotalDac cable), is possibly an upgrade, but so far I give it a tie...which is an enormous value win at $40 vs $650. 

 

That being said, Kenny's comparison leads me to believe he has already proven the microRendu is the missing piece for him, not the USPCB vs cable.   Also, in his use case, the server/computer (a Mac) is a weak direct source, something a renderer like the microRendu shows as a real benefit of renderers.  In my case, lugging my HQPlayer server (i7 6700k, 32GB RAM, optimized OS, hdd, etc, CUDA offloading) might show the microRendu to be unnecessary, given all other things...but I don;t even know if my server will play in my listening room.  It might be too physically noisy, etc., let alone able to line up correctly to try double USPCBs.  So in my case the NAA approach (whether microRendu or my CAPS Carbon JCAT NAA) is most likely the winner just out of logistical needs.  I will test this over the next few days.

[ElviaCaprice]

15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

You guys keep asking this question, but what if he says it's still worse? Then next you'll be questioning whether his computer is an "optimized server." And on and on.

 

My point is - first establish an experimental environment where you agree beforehand that the result will actually be meaningful to you, before asking people to go off and spend their valuable time to run comparisons for you. In this particular instance, perhaps you should first be asking @kennyb123 about his computer to determine if it meets the bar for you.

I agree, but we're not the ones trying to make it sound like the experiment doesn't need to be performed and that using the USB cable is conclusive enough.  Especially after Kenny made the big stink on how the USPCB trounced his high end cable on the other thread. 

Just would like to hear from anybody, regardless of computer optimization in regards to this comparison.  Obviously, it could be system dependent.

But what if it sounds the same or better without the mR?  Wouldn't someone using the mR and Iso Regen like to know this?  Could save big $$$ on having an mR and PS.  Let alone the simplification of software and format capabilities.

[R1200CL]

59 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

But what we really wanted to know.  Does a computer with just an ISO Regen and two USPCB's on each side to a DAC sound as good, better or worse than a mR added to the system? 

 

Now, interesting and correct question, but let me add with no Roon brigde installed on that PC. Only Roon core. Agree ?

 

That is if you're using Roon ?

 

Otherwice tell me how your MicroRendu was running. 

[kennyb123]

15 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I agree, but we're not the ones trying to make it sound like the experiment doesn't need to be performed and that using the USB cable is conclusive enough.  Especially after Kenny made the big stink on how the USPCB trounced his high end cable on the other thread. 

Just would like to hear from anybody, regardless of computer optimization in regards to this comparison.  Obviously, it could be system dependent.

But what if it sounds the same or better without the mR?  Wouldn't someone using the mR and Iso Regen like to know this?  Could save big $$$ on having an mR and PS.  Let alone the simplification of software and format capabilities.

 

I think maybe with a 90 degree USPCB that I'll be able to go straight from Mac Mini to my DAC.  Assuming that's what it will take, if someone wants to mail one to me, I'll try it.

 

I actually suspect that the Mac Mini is the cause of degradation I hear relative to the microRendu.  Swapping my USB cable for a USPCB is very likely to make the harm my Mac Mini is causing even easier to hear.  Why would I want a more transparent view of the harm this is doing?

 

Certainly the ISO REGEN is cleaning up some of the harm.  But to my ears, throwing in a microRendu may be one of the easiest upgrade decisions one can make.  

 

One thing I really came to appreciate previously was how incisive things were in the time domain.  Acoustic guitar strings realistically  energized the air, percussion was more naturally percussive, etc.  This has been the case for many months such that I thought it was the best I ever heard from any system.  There were further improvements in this after adding the ISO REGEN, and it improved a bit more when eliminating my USB cable.  But now - that particular quality has gone to mush.  The Mac Mini is clearly no match for the microRendu in timing incisiveness.  I can't see how swapping my USB cable for the USPCB has any chance of restoring this quality.

[ElviaCaprice]

7 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

 I can't see how swapping my USB cable for the USPCB has any chance of restoring this quality.

Understandable as I'm sure you probably thought the same when replacing the USB cable with the USPCB in the mR chain. 

I thought the same when replacing my usb cable from my NUC to the ISO Regen.  Wow, but what a change.  So much so, that I dropped the idea of changing out clocks on my motherboard with SoTM SCLK EX.  In fact, any audiophile USB card I add to my NUC, PCIE mini adapter, adds nothing, just best to run direct from the mobo usb port. 

[kennyb123]

7 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Understandable as I'm sure you probably thought the same when replacing the USB cable with the USPCB in the mR chain. 

I thought the same when replacing my usb cable from my NUC to the ISO Regen.  Wow, but what a change.  So much so, that I dropped the idea of changing out clocks on my motherboard with SoTM SCLK EX.  In fact, any audiophile USB card I add to my NUC, PCIE mini adapter, adds nothing, just best to run direct from the mobo usb port. 

 

You and I are very close to being on the same page.  I'm guessing we'd be even more in synch if I had the same server.

 

We both have Chord DACs but you gain the advantage of a better driver that speaks more directly to the hardware.  Roon speaks to my DAC through Core Audio.

[esmit]

53 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

You and I are very close to being on the same page.  I'm guessing we'd be even more in synch if I had the same server.

 

We both have Chord DACs but you gain the advantage of a better driver that speaks more directly to the hardware.  Roon speaks to my DAC through Core Audio.

Which Chord dacs are we talking about?  Hugo, Dave. TT or mojo?

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, esmit said:

Which Chord dacs are we talking about?  Hugo, Dave. TT or mojo?

 

2Qute and TT

[ElviaCaprice]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

You and I are very close to being on the same page.  I'm guessing we'd be even more in synch if I had the same server.

 

We both have Chord DACs but you gain the advantage of a better driver that speaks more directly to the hardware.  Roon speaks to my DAC through Core Audio.

I don't know Kenny.  Playing bit perfect, shouldn't matter between Roon or JRiver from a single server streaming direct USB.  Shall be interesting to hear how Ted's go at it turns out. 

[jaaptina]

14 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

The removal of the microRendu has to be responsible for the most of the degradation.

MicroRendu is a very good streamer. When I started streaming I used an old pc but bought a Pioneer N-30 soon after. In my room using a streamer is much more convenient. It didn't do anything for sound quality. For 2 years I didn't believe a streamer had an impact on sound quality worth 1000 dollars or more. Then Aries Mini happened. Bought it with SBooster. Major difference in music separation. Than the microRendu reviews hit. I had to know and bought one. With iFi it sounded comparable to Aries Mini with SBooster. With LPS-1 it's a major step forward again. So in my experience microRendu is a very good streamer. 

After summer I'll decide between IsoRegen and ultraRendu for the next step. I see IsoRegen is a proven upgrade. But adding one adds a psu again. That's making me hesitate. 

[rickca]

Alex and John, can you explain the difference between doing galvanic isolation in the ISO REGEN (using a Silanna chip and USB hub) vs the transformer coupling approach in the new Schitt Gen 5 USB?  

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Alex and John, can you explain the difference between doing galvanic isolation in the ISO REGEN (using a Silanna chip and USB hub) vs the transformer coupling approach in the new Schitt Gen 5 USB?  

 

Transformers?  On high-speed USB?  DC does not pass through transformers so they must be doing something fancy to achieve that.  Will wait to see pics and explanations.

[rickca]

33 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Will wait to see pics and explanations.

Here's a picture of the G5 board.  It may not be high enough resolution for you to see what on it.

http://schiit.com/products/gen-5-usb

[Superdad]

31 minutes ago, rickca said:

Here's a picture of the G5 board.  It may not be high enough resolution for you to see what on it.

http://schiit.com/products/gen-5-usb

 

Oh okay, pulse transformers driving transistor gates!  Clever. Simple and elegant.  Good for a DAC input (or an S/PDIF converter) as it feeds the protocol engine/processor directly.  Probably not workable for an external USB>USB device.

[Jeremy Anderson]

Funky. Those are, if I found the right parts, LAN Transformers (up to 10 Gbit/s). 

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Oh okay, pulse transformers driving transistor gates!  Clever. Simple and elegant.  Good for a DAC input (or an S/PDIF converter) as it feeds the protocol engine/processor directly.  Probably not workable for an external USB>USB device.

Alas, still no DSD solution (well that's not really surprising from Schiit). So where's the power for a USB device that would need 20-300mA draw like any DAC.

 

I'm kinda over S/PDIF and its limitations, 1982 digital technology doesn't cut it any more to extract the last detail from a digital signal. Let alone any software/hardware conversions from DSD to PCM, just has whiskers on it.

 

The Schiit Gen 5 still doesn't solve the leakage problems of a differential design. The transformers with stray capacitance would still allow leakage current to flourish.

 

Anyway, there's more to admire the marketing approach  Technically, still a few holes.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Alas, still no DSD solution (well that's not really surprising from Schiit). So where's the power for a USB device that would need 20-300mA draw like any DAC.

...

 

Not sure I follow that.  Theirs is a USB input board for their DACs (as well as a stand-alone version where they added an S/PDIF out to that USB>I2S design.  Assume they power it internally.

 

In any case gents, it is not appropriate for us to have this sort of discussion of other brands within the UpTone forum.  Decorum, respect, etc.--for both Schiit (whom I admire as a company) and UpTone.

 

Thanks!

--Alex C.

[rickca]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Oh okay, pulse transformers driving transistor gates!  Clever. Simple and elegant.  Good for a DAC input (or an S/PDIF converter) as it feeds the protocol engine/processor directly.  Probably not workable for an external USB>USB device.

Thanks, Alex.  This is exactly what I wanted to understand.  I didn't intend to turn this into a discussion about Schiit products.  Any innovation by DAC designers to improve the quality of their inputs is a welcome development.

[octaviars]

If you put the ISO REGEN directly behind the DAC with the USPCB how many millimeters will there be between the DAC case and the case of the ISO REGEN @Superdad 

I have some plans to place my endpoint with a USPCB behind the ISO REGEN but need to know how much the USPCB builds to see if I got the place behind my DAC.

[Superdad]

20 minutes ago, octaviars said:

If you put the ISO REGEN directly behind the DAC with the USPCB how many millimeters will there be between the DAC case and the case of the ISO REGEN?

 

Exactly 45 mm.  

[octaviars]

10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Exactly 45 mm.  

 

Thanks for the answer.

 

The ISO REGEN is that also around 45mm long?