ISO REGEN launch thread! (product web page up; photos, etc.)

[Quadman]

I got the IR about 10 days ago and have noted some behavior issues that I did not have with the amber regen.  I run a win 10 pro PC direct connected to the dac in this manner.  PC-AQ jitterbug- 2M USB cable-Isoregen- My DIY custom 6" Silver USB cable-T+A Dac8DSD.  Roon and HQP both installed on my PC.  The issue is when I stop playing music by hitting pause in roon, the intent is to stop playing for the evening but leave everything running overnight (music still paused in roon).  I notice in a couple of hours the T+A goes into standby mode rather then staying on as it does with the regen in the chain.  The next day when I attempt to play music again HQP says it cannot connect to dac, usually I can fix by closing HQP, dis-connect USB cable from PC back wait 15 seconds, plug back in and re-open HQP, most times this works and all is good.

 

Now when I compare different configs such as IR vs regen or USBPC vs my custom 6" silver USB I sometimes can not get HQP to see the dac when the IR is in the chain, no matter what I do.  When the regen is in the chain I never have an issue with HQP seeing the dac.  It seems as a USB hub the IR is way more finicky than the regen and sometimes just will not play nice in my chain.  Now while music is playing everything is fine when the IR is in the chain it never drops the stream.  The issue happens with the IR in the chain when music is paused or when switching IR with regen.  Looking into device manager when the "cannot connect to dac" message appears everything looks good no yellow or red warnings.

[Daudio]

54 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I stop playing music by hitting pause in roon, the intent is to stop playing for the evening but leave everything running overnight (music still paused in roon).

 

Could you just leave it playing at a very low level ? (or muted, depending on where you control volume) At least temporarily, until you have a fix, to cut the hassle.

 

I usually leave my system running 24/7 with a streaming www radio station. More for my convenience, but there are reports of better SQ with a continuously playing system.

 

 

[Quadman]

7 minutes ago, Daudio said:

Could you just leave it playing at a very low level ?

I upsample to DSD512 so I am not a fan of having the CPU and GPU running at over 20% 24/7.  I could drop the sample rate to PCM and have almost no CPU or GPU usage then.  My Q was more of a could this be normal behavior?  With the amber regen I never experienced these issues described, it started with the IR in the chain, but when playing music the IR is just fine no crackles, breakups or other issue, so far.  Just the paused connection issue.

[Superdad]

47 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I got the IR about 10 days ago and have noted some behavior issues that I did not have with the amber regen.

 

Hi Quadman:

I am going to ask John Swenson to explain a bit about how the ISO REGEN differs from the USB REGEN when it coms to USB connectivity.  Because as it happens, the ISO REGEN hews to the USB standards much more closely than the USB REGEN did.  I am speaking mostly about VBUS states, but also we (well, he) worked very hard to improve hot-swappability and compatibility with Linux and some older Windows systems.

All USB hosts and devices (so computers, DACs, the hub in the REGENs, etc.) have different wake/suspend states, partially based on VBUS status, but also based--I think--on if data is moving.

 

Anyway, while it is remotely possible you have a fussy ISO REGEN unit sample (which we could of course exchange), it is likely that your set up--possibly even your DIY USB is exacerbating the situation.  Also, please try taking the Jitterbug out of the chain.  Had someone last month tell me they had connection problems with the ISO REGEN that went away when they removed the Jitterbug (and he said it sounded better too).

 

Thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. Other than your standby disconnects, how are you liking the SQ with the ISO REGEN into your T+A DAC? 

[pl_svn]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

All USB hosts and devices (so computers, DACs, the hub in the REGENs, etc.) have different wake/suspend states, partially based on VBUS status, but also based--I think--on if data is moving.

 

definitely!

just found my Chord 2Qute's "bitrate light" finally turns off, when playback stops, if the ISO Regen is in the queue

did not with the "amber" Regen. did when using s/pdif instead

 

[Quadman]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Anyway, while it is remotely possible you have a fussy ISO REGEN unit sample (which we could of course exchange), it is likely that your set up--possibly even your DIY USB is exacerbating the situation.  Also, please try taking the Jitterbug out of the chain.  Had someone last month tell me they had connection problems with the ISO REGEN that went away when they removed the Jitterbug (and he said it sounded better too).

 

Alex, thanks.  I will remove the AQ Jitterbug tonight.  That custom homemade 6" usb cable with very high quality pure silver data lines and separately shielded voltage lines has been in my system for over 1 year, with the regen and no issue ever occurred with it.  In fact when I compared it to the USBPC adaptor you sent with IR I definitely preferred my custom cable, music was more alive (not bright)  the usbpc seemed to lose dynamics and life compared to my cable, kind of like what @swl3600 reported on the other thread.

 

As to the IR and the T+A the T+A does some pretty good isolation of the USB and digital signal from analog signal, I think they use the same chip as you at least in separating digital from analog.  The regen or isoregen does not make a huge change with the T+A as it did say with my Chinese dac the Gustard x20 or my NAD M51 that was a OMG moment when the regen was inserted.  That said the IR does offer some additional improvement over just straight USB connection to the T+A.  Images focus a bit better, separation is noticeably better and bass tightened up just a touch, subtle but improvements.  Now I need to listen more with the usbpc vs. my cable once the disconnect issue is sorted out.  Last session was when the IR would not connect when I inserted the usbpc, I pulled it (IR) and inserted the amber regen and music played.  Switching with regular regen does not cause this behavior.

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, Quadman said:

Alex, thanks.  I will remove the AQ Jitterbug tonight.  That custom homemade 6" usb cable with very high quality pure silver data lines and separately shielded voltage lines has been in my system for over 1 year, with the regen and no issue ever occurred with it.  In fact when I compared it to the USBPC adaptor you sent with IR I definitely preferred my custom cable, music was more alive (not bright)  the usbpc seemed to lose dynamics and life compared to my cable, kind of like what @swl3600 reported on the other thread.

 

As to the IR and the T+A the T+A does some pretty good isolation of the USB and digital signal from analog signal, I think they use the same chip as you at least in separating digital from analog.  The regen or isoregen does not make a huge change with the T+A as it did say with my Chinese dac the Gustard x20 or my NAD M51 that was a OMG moment when the regen was inserted.  That said the IR does offer some additional improvement over just straight USB connection to the T+A.  Images focus a bit better, separation is noticeably better and bass tightened up just a touch, subtle but improvements.  Now I need to listen more with the usbpc vs. my cable once the disconnect issue is sorted out.  Last session was when the IR would not connect when I inserted the usbpc, I pulled it (IR) and inserted the amber regen and music played.  Switching with regular regen does not cause this behavior.

The ISO REGEN and USB REGEN handle VBUS differently. The USB REGEN has the downstream VBUS always on so even if the hub chip is in suspend mode the VBUS will still be applied to the DAC.

 

The ISO REGEN uses a VBUS switch controlled by the hub chip, this was necessary to make proper connections when using the USB isolator in the path. But that also means that the VBUS gets turned off when the hub  is in suspend mode. The solution is to prevent the computer from suspending the hub chip. I know how to do this for windows, but not for other OSs.

 

For Windows open up the device manager, click on the "Universal Serial Bus controllers". This brings up a list which should contain the line:

USB2.0 MTT Hub

This will be the ISO REGEN.

 

Right click on the line, click on Properties, this brings up a properties window. Click on the "Power Management" tab, make sure the line "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" is un-checked. (if it is checked click on the check to un-check). Click on OK.

 

This should prevent the computer from suspending the hub when it has been inactive for a long time, thus keeping the connection to the DAC alive.

 

Let us know how this goes.

 

Thanks,

 

John S.

 

 

[Quadman]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

For Windows open up the device manager, click on the "Universal Serial Bus controllers". This brings up a list which should contain the line:

USB2.0 MTT Hub

This will be the ISO REGEN.

 

Right click on the line, click on Properties, this brings up a properties window. Click on the "Power Management" tab, make sure the line "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" is un-checked. (if it is checked click on the check to un-check). Click on OK.

 

John, Thank you for the explanation.  I run windows 10 pro 64 bit, creators update.  I just fired up the PC, before doing so installed the USPCB adaptor.  Went into device manager clicked on Universal serial bus controllers and the image below is what I see The name USB2.0 MTT Hub does not appear.  I believe the IR is the top "Generic USB hub", I checked the pwr mgnt tab and the box you refer to was unchecked.  I did check all listings and only 2 others had a pwr mgnt tab, the bottom two (usb root hub) I unchecked the box next to "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power".  Any reason why device manager does not show the IR as USB2.0 MTT Hub?

 

 

[lmitche]

43 minutes ago, Quadman said:

 

John, Thank you for the explanation.  I run windows 10 pro 64 bit, creators update.  I just fired up the PC, before doing so installed the USPCB adaptor.  Went into device manager clicked on Universal serial bus controllers and the image below is what I see The name USB2.0 MTT Hub does not appear.  I believe the IR is the top "Generic USB hub", I checked the pwr mgnt tab and the box you refer to was unchecked.  I did check all listings and only 2 others had a pwr mgnt tab, the bottom two (usb root hub) I unchecked the box next to "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power".  Any reason why device manager does not show the IR as USB2.0 MTT Hub?

 

 

 

Same behavior here on win 10.

[Superdad]

46 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I believe the IR is the top "Generic USB hub"

 

Yes, that is correct on Windows 10.  I just checked on my new Windows 10 laptop, and the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" box was checked by default.  Guess it was not for your system.

[Quadman]

Just noticed my image of the device manager did not up load, can we upload photos, PNG from our PC's?  I'll try again.  Even tho Alex pretty much answered it above.

 

 

 

It worked, I need to pay more attention.

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, Quadman said:

 

John, Thank you for the explanation.  I run windows 10 pro 64 bit, creators update.  I just fired up the PC, before doing so installed the USPCB adaptor.  Went into device manager clicked on Universal serial bus controllers and the image below is what I see The name USB2.0 MTT Hub does not appear.  I believe the IR is the top "Generic USB hub", I checked the pwr mgnt tab and the box you refer to was unchecked.  I did check all listings and only 2 others had a pwr mgnt tab, the bottom two (usb root hub) I unchecked the box next to "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power".  Any reason why device manager does not show the IR as USB2.0 MTT Hub?

 

 

 

Hmm, on Windows 7 it shows up as USB2.0 MTT Hub. You should be able to leave the device manager open and plug and unplug the ISO REGEN and see which line changes.

 

If it is unchecked and you still have the disconnection with long term non-use then we will have to do some more detective work. 

 

John S.

[rickca]

Alex and John, now that the ISO REGEN is shipping, can you please tell us which USB hub you selected for it?

[satfrat]

Alex, has all first run production of the Iso Regen been shipped out yet? Just patiently waiting for that "Add to cart" button for the USPCB A>B adapter, when you're ready in due course, of course.

 

Robin

[Quadman]

11 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Hmm, on Windows 7 it shows up as USB2.0 MTT Hub. You should be able to leave the device manager open and plug and unplug the ISO REGEN and see which line changes.

I did not unplug and replug the regen while looking at DM, I did check properties of all listed USB devices and made sure the box next to "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" was unchecked on all that offered that option.  This mourning my T+A dac is still awake and showing the last signal sent to it 22M6.  I did no swapping last night and music played perfectly thru the regen.  I make a road trip next week and I am bringing the IR to a friends so there will be a far amount of swapping so I'll get an idea if the dis-connect issues are solved.  Crap I forgot to remove the AQJ last night.

[rogerdn]

Alex or anyone who knows, sorry if I missed it, how close are we to being able to order the USPCB adapter ?

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, rogerdn said:

Alex or anyone who knows, sorry if I missed it, how close are we to being able to order the USPCB adapter ?

 

Hi Roger:

 

I am behind on a lot of things.  One of which is figuring out the worldwide postage costs to charge for people who want to order the USPCB A>B Adapter by itself (USA is easy, but international for small packets is a headache; nobody is going to want to pay Priority Mail Intl. Flat Rate of $34 postage for a $35 adapter).  That’s about the only reason why the AddToCart button is not yet on the page.

 

If you are in the USA and would like one, just shoot $38 ($35 + $3 postage) via PayPal to www.paypal.me/uptone

If you do so, please let me know (via our web site contact page) as the daily PayPal notices get filtered into an e-mail box that I do not regularly look at.

 

Also tell me which orientation of the USPCB Adapter you wish to receive.

 

Thanks,

ALEX

[watercourse]

Just ordered the ISO REGEN! 

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, watercourse said:

Just ordered the ISO REGEN! 

 

Awesome, thanks!  And so now at last I know @watercourse's real name...

[rogerdn]

11 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Roger:

 

I am behind on a lot of things.  One of which is figuring out the worldwide postage costs to charge for people who want to order the USPCB A>B Adapter by itself (USA is easy, but international for small packets is a headache; nobody is going to want to pay Priority Mail Intl. Flat Rate of $34 postage for a $35 adapter).  That’s about the only reason why the AddToCart button is not yet on the page.

 

If you are in the USA and would like one, just shoot $38 ($35 + $3 postage) via PayPal to www.paypal.me/uptone

If you do so, please let me know (via our web site contact page) as the daily PayPal notices get filtered into an e-mail box that I do not regularly look at.

 

Also tell me which orientation of the USPCB Adapter you wish to receive.

 

Thanks,

ALEX

Thks will do.

[satfrat]

15 minutes ago, rogerdn said:

Thks will do.

Thks will do 2.   

[rogerdn]

10 minutes ago, satfrat said:

Thks will do 2.   

too ?

[ElviaCaprice]

Do 2 what???  humm

Speaking of doing 2.  Just received my 2nd ISO Regen the other day.  Testing out the combo and see if I can detect a difference, definitely doesn't hurt the SQ.  Been making a few changes to the system/testing.  Sounding darn good. 

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, satfrat said:

Thks will do 2.   

I'll do 2 too (1x of each orientation).

[seeteeyou]

I'm assuming that IR would be compatible with USB Mass Storage and not just limited to USB Audio. Hopefully someone could correct me if I were mistaken.

 

Let's say this SSD is bootable and compatible with Windows To Go

 

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=42196&PageId=1

 

Does it make sense to add IR #2 for the sake of signal integrity when we're talking about storage devices? We're getting RAVE reviews for USB DDCs/DACs already, it's hard to imagine what would happen if we're running Windows off USB drives that are also blessed by the magic of IR.