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DIY DC power cables


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6 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

The open open shield at one end is NOT the right way to do it. The last time I tried to bring this up...

John,

 

I, for one, would be interested. I don't recall getting a clear grasp of the issue from your previous attempt. And I have been using one-end grounded, shielded, star-quad config, Mogami 2534, DIY interconnect cables for a looong time now. Not that my analog source was that challenging, but it was a best practice from that time. So I'm still very curious about the theory, measurements, and/or listening experiences around this issue.

 

 

P.S. (to All, not just John) why has this thread page expanded its width beyond my normal viewport ??  Makes it hard to read !

 

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1 minute ago, Daudio said:

P.S. (to All, not just John) why has this thread page expanded its width beyond my normal viewport ??  Makes it hard to read !

 

happened yesterday here too :|

closed browser's window, reloaded CA main page and all was back to normal

Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2  > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3  power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

 

headphones system:

Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones

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1 hour ago, Middy said:

I cant find it.. can you link it please Jud.

Why I've been nagging Mr S but I didn't realise people threw a fit over a theory...

 

 

It'll be a while, Dave - going out shortly, may not get back in front of a keyboard until tomorrow.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

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1 hour ago, Daudio said:

And I have been using one-end grounded, shielded, star-quad config, Mogami 2534, DIY interconnect cables for a looong time now. Not that my analog source was that challenging, but it was a best practice from that time. So I'm still very curious about the theory, measurements, and/or listening experiences around this issue.

 

 

I'm not trying to answer for John S. in any way, but what you are describing above with W2534 and an analog interconnect cable is a different thing.

 

So while I agree it would be interesting to know the theory behind why this is not the best way to do a DC cable, John S. did specifically state in his last post :  "At least for the DC cables an unshielded starquad is better than one with improper shield."

 

I also concur with @Jud that this good news for me as I neither have to try to source shielded cable nor be concerned with connecting it at one end only and then marking the cable's directionality, it's easier not to have to bother with any of that.

 

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

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2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The open open shield at one end is NOT the right way to do it. The last time I tried to bring this up I was thrashed by a large number of very angry people (I had no idea shield connection was such an emotional topic for so many people) so I am loath to bring it up again. Part of the problem is that I have no test equipment  right now so I can't PROVE it.

 

At least for the DC cables an unshielded starquad  is better than one with improper shield.

 

I have to make up my mind whether I want to talk about proper shielding at this time or not.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John for your expert feedback. I would very much like if you could talk about proper shielding. I wold love to hear your advice. I was hoping for your comment on my post. 

 

And I agree it's not as simple as I said, cause shielding has to be part of the whole loop, so you need to use shielded cables the whole way, which means that you most likely would have to use a shielded open end USB cable as well, and probably not on the DC power cable. Unless the USB is only signal ?

 

And this can probably can only be verified by measuring, as you are saying but:

 

My reason for bringing this up is that as a designer of low voltage control systems in the Oil & Gas industry, the rule for as long as I've been in the business is a signal loop from the I/O (input/output) control system card, we use shielded cables. They all in the end has the same ground (on an offshore platform), but the screen / shield was always floating in the end. End is where the field instrumentation is. 

 

This is related to 4-20 mA systems with 24 VDC where signal is analog. Digital is on/of (well it is a bit more actually), but still 24 VDC. 

 

I was thinking this way of designing control systems loops, could be transferred to our way of powering things in the audio world. But I could be wrong. I should also mention that the minus of these signal cables is NOT the same as ground.

But some control systems offers a common minus. I think those engineers some times will have callanges ? 

 

So the conclusion is that you have to look at your whole system, and how everything is connected up. This may not be so easy, as we, (or at lest me), hasn't got a clue how my earth and signals (and power) is done between the various devices in my setup. 

 

And I think John has chosen not to use eart, except for his amplifier. 

 

Also to to fully understand all these things, we need some sketches. And they can only cover the design principles. 

 

John your advices is mostly welcome. 

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6 hours ago, Daudio said:

 

Yes, I know, and am curious partly as to the why of the difference between applications.

 

That, and I made an external LPSU cable for my UTA MMK equipped Mac Mini, from that same W2534*, in a star-quad config and, yes, one-end shield grounding. So I'm curious on that score too !

 

BTW, the Mogami Microphone cable works wonderfully with the Oyaide barrel connector. No problem soldering the paired wires, and the jacket slips freely through the back of the cover. The two paired 24 gauge conductors, result in only about a total 21 gauge capacity, but this is not an arc welder. Is a heavier gauge necessary ? Or more importantly, audible ? I don't know, but would love to find out. In the meantime I'm happy with my cable, except that is, for the recent cloud over the shielding technique :S

 

Here is a pix of my 12vdc cable for my Mini music server:

Mogami 2534 LPSU pwr cable.jpg

 

 

* I still have about 60' of that stuff left !

 

 

Very nice looking cable!

 

I too have a bunch of W2534 I could use for this application, and while the aggregate 21 gauge conductors should be ok up to 1.2 amps, I decided to just go unshielded and ordered some of the 4S6 instead, as I managed to worry myself that the X-PE insulation on the microphone cable wasn't necessarily intended for use in higher current applications like a speaker cable would be.

 

Are those worries unfounded? Probably.

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Boycott HDtracks

Boycott Lenbrook

Boycott Warner Music Group

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On 5/3/2017 at 11:44 AM, Michael-Elijah Audio said:

Michael, what dc plug is that?  Seems it'd be ideal for the Canare 4SG which is only 6.4mm.

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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45 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

Michael, what dc plug is that?  Seems it'd be ideal for the Canare 4SG which is only 6.4mm.

 

 

If you read back thru Michael's (very welcome !) previous posts in this thread, you will find the links to this French connector.

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I'm talking to the French Elec. Got an offer. Not to bad. 

Have asked them to ship a couple plugs to the Chinese guy. Offered to pay. No feedback yet. 

 

I personally think the Elec is as good as Qyaide. 

 

 But since I believe people like to have Oyaide, I suppose that what has to be first priority. 

 

What I don't know yet, is if used on ISO regen, such huge plugs as Elec, may become in conflict with the uspcb. 

Maybe perfect for use with an Y-split. (In the LPS-1 connection). 

 

 

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Humm, his plug doesn't look like the french/Elac plug

http://www.elecaudio.com/en/hi-fi-connectors/285-elecaudio-dc-21g-jack-dc-connector-5521mm-gold-plated.html

 

R1200cl, please let us know when you get a price?  Thx

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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Ok, cool then.  Just wasn't sure ;)

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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2 hours ago, austinpop said:

@The Computer Audiophile

 

Could you please go in and change John Swenson's designation from "Junior Member" to "Audio Pioneer?" Or something similar that is more fitting?

 

Junior Member, indeed. Hah!

 

We'll let John decide what he wants to change it to, under Account Settings > Edit Profile.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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4 hours ago, Michael-Elijah Audio said:

Don't think that will be a problem - modified Elec and screw type plug

 

I think you misunderstood. 

 

If you use the new UpTone USPCB between MicroRendu and ISO regen, then you may have a challange. 

 

@Superdad have not put any measurements on his website yet, and in any case I suppose we have to wait until it ships in order to verify.  

 

I may inventing issus here, as I suppose the uspcb is primary meant to be downstream between the ISO regen and a DAC. Not on the upstream/ input side.

 

Although my plan is to have one uspcb both upstream and downstream together with my MicroRendu. 

 

The 90 degree version of the uspcb may solve this potential issue. 

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15 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

I think you misunderstood. 

 

If you use the new UpTone USPCB between MicroRendu and ISO regen, then you may have a challange. 

 

@Superdad have not put any measurements on his website yet, and in any case I suppose we have to wait until it ships in order to verify.  

 

I may inventing issus here, as I suppose the uspcb is primary meant to be downstream between the ISO regen and a DAC. Not on the upstream/ input side.

 

Although my plan is to have one uspcb both upstream and downstream together with my MicroRendu. 

 

I agree, the current USPCB will be a challenge in many cases, sure wish Uptone would make one longer.  For me, it will also be a challenge on the DAC side with the ISO Regen. 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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8 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

So how come nobody does this?

 

actually there is a well known manufacturer using this kind of shielding in their most expensive cables ;)

but as far as I understand it... they're also applying some "current" (using a dedicated battery, I believe) to the "shielding wire"

Qnap HS-264 NAS (powered by an HD-Plex 100w LPS) > Cirrus7 Nimbini v2.5 Media Edition i7-8559U/32/512 running Roon ROCK (powered by a Keces P8 LPS) > Lumin U2  > Metrum Acoustics Adagio NOS digital preamplifier > First Watt SIT 3  power amplifier (or Don Garber Fi "Y" 6922 tube preamplifier + Don Garber Fi "X" 2A3 SET power amplifier, both powered from an Alpha-Core BP-30 Isolated Symmetrical Power Transformer) > Klipsch Cornwall III

 

headphones system:

Cirrus 7 > Lumin U2 > Metrum Acoustics Adagio > Pathos Aurium amplifier (powered by an UpTone Audio JS-2 LPS) > Focal Clear headphones

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