DIY DC power cables

[octaviars]

On 2018-01-29 at 4:40 PM, jcn3 said:

Just wondering if you've ever tried bi-wiring those TADs -- wonder if there would be a benefit.

 

Nope, not tried bi-wiring.

[hytechrednek]

In my experience, the barrel connectors on a Mac Mini outboard power supply, are a huge sonic liability.  Has anyone ever tried to bypass the barrel connectors on the DC power cable of a MicroRendu?  If so, what were the SQ results?

[Ryelands]

On 27/01/2018 at 7:52 PM, JohnSwenson said:

. . . going with the starquad is probably better than the twisted pairs.

 

I've been using two-core Supra speaker cables for several years. In light of discussions here and elsewhere and as Supra describes quad-core as "probably the best speaker cable we make", I thought I'd try it.

 

Then I saw the price. Eventually, however, I DIY'd by buying more two-core cable and making up the QC runs manually, i.e. by "upgrading" the old cable. I wrapped the runs with PTFE tape to keep them tightly twisted, fitted a JSSG-style braided-copper sleeve (mostly for mechancial protection) and finished off with the usual poly-whatever braided sleeve.

 

If you want to learn what wrestling with a bad-tempered cobra is like, the procedure will give you a fair idea BUT the difference between the two-core and the quad-core runs was very marked. True, the resistance of the new cable is half that of the old but trials on a different system suggest that the improvement is mostly, if not entirely, down to the altered geometry. (Ditto for power cables BTW but that's a story for another time.)

 

So many thanks to John for the idea which I can confirm works very well.

 

Dave

 

 

 

[ambre]

On 25-9-2017 at 1:01 AM, JohnSwenson said:

Canare microphone cable did not sound so great, BUT Belden 1804A sounds fantastic! This is very thin, very flexible shielded starquad with silver plated copper strands with polypropylene insulation and a braided shield. 

 

The cable takes quite a while to burn in, I would give it a week of constant playing before assessing sonic qualities. It sounds fantastic, is super flexible and inexpensive to make.

John S.

Dear John, 

 

I made form the Belden 1804A my USB cables too.

With the 4x conductor Starquad  (D+ & D-). And a separate  4x conductor Starquad  5v & GND.  All  ends of the two braided shields are  soldered to a J(ohn) S(wenson) SG drain wire. 

 

It sounds great ( more open =air and a better stage)  than my  USB cables made from the Canare 4S6 microphone cable. Ps. The wires are indeed very thin and much easier to solder and to assemble than the thicker Canare wires. 

 

But it remains a fiddle. Especially if you want to make the very short A> B Adapter for the Uptone Regen too.

 

Thanks again, John Swenson, for your insights. Unlike a lot of people who blather on and argue endlessly in the CA forums about audio science, your work and advices actually makes our systems sound better. 

 

Best regards, Andreas

[sima66]

Will Belden 1804A be enough for a DC cable......since is only 28 AWG?!

[d_elm]

1 hour ago, sima66 said:

Will Belden 1804A be enough for a DC cable......since is only 28 AWG?!

Belden 9418 is a starquad and is 18 awg. Lower resistance is better for  DC cables.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, d_elm said:

Belden 9418 is a starquad and is 18 awg. Lower resistance is better for  DC cables.

 

Right.  That's the wire we use for the cables we offer:

 

A bit hard to work with as pairing two 18awg conductors results in a heavy 15awg.  That's why we had to push Oyaide to do a special 1,000 piece production run for us of their original style DC plugs (their new style are too short to be able to use our big wire).

[sima66]

Thank you guys!

 

Also if you have any link where to buy by foot?

[look&listen]

19 minutes ago, sima66 said:

Also if you have any link where to buy by foot?

 

https://www.showmecables.com/belden-9418-4-conductors-18-awg-shielded-pvc-audio-control-and-instrumentation-cable

 

[tims]

Apologies if this has been asked before but on a coax cable where the outer shield is the return path of the signal would adding another shield to the coax cable (ala JSSG) be a worthwhile exercise in reducing leakage current?

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, tims said:

Apologies if this has been asked before but on a coax cable where the outer shield is the return path of the signal would adding another shield to the coax cable (ala JSSG) be a worthwhile exercise in reducing leakage current?

Proper shielding does not reduce leakage current, it can reduce the radiated field produced by the leakage current, but the leakage current is still there.

 

With a standard coax you have two options for doing the shielding, cut some outer insulation off at both ends and solder a wire between them, OR add a separate braid sleeve around the whole cable and solder a wire from one end to the other. The sleeve is not connected to anything else.  Both work just as well.

 

If your shield on the coax is foil it can be very difficult to make a connection to it, in which case the separate sleeve may be easier.

 

John S.

[asdf1000]

7 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

OR add a separate braid sleeve around the whole cable and solder a wire from one end to the other. The sleeve is not connected to anything else.  Both work just as well.

 

If your shield on the coax is foil it can be very difficult to make a connection to it, in which case the separate sleeve may be easier.

 

Hi John

 

Can you recommend a braid sleeve that you've used and would work well with soldering the 'external' wire to it?

 

[JohnSwenson]

I have no idea, I have not actually done it myself, others here have been using it a lot. I hadn't even thought of doing it that way, after my explanation of this someone else figured out the external sleeve variant, but I don't remember who first came up with it.

 

The braid sleeve can be compressed which causes it to expand (like the Chinese finger puzzle), so you generally want a size that when compressed will fit over the connectors but fit snugly over the existing cable when un-compressed.

 

John S.

[mozes]

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

I know this thread is for DC cables, but I am interested in your view regarding the shielding of AC cables. 

Thanks in advance!

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, mozes said:

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

I know this thread is for DC cables, but I am interested in your view regarding the shielding of AC cables. 

Thanks in advance!

My shielding techniques are very effective at preventing AC cables from radiating noise. The problem is that even "shielded" cables don't do it right. You need to have the external wire from end to end to make it effective.

 

An intermediate approach is starquad AC cables, they cut down a lot on the radiated noise, but are not as good as a full JSSG.

 

John S.

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

My shielding techniques are very effective at preventing AC cables from radiating noise. The problem is that even "shielded" cables don't do it right. You need to have the external wire from end to end to make it effective.

 

An intermediate approach is starquad AC cables, they cut down a lot on the radiated noise, but are not as good as a full JSSG.

 

John S.

Thanks John, my AC cables are not shielded, so will try the JSSG on a

couple of cables.

[jamesg11]

18 hours ago, mozes said:

Thanks John, my AC cables are not shielded, so will try the JSSG on a

couple of cables.

/& of course, provide pics with descriptions!

[MarceloEduardo]

Hello everyone!

I am thinking about upgrade a DC cable between two 12V 7A batteries that feeds my Graham Slee Reflex phono stage with 24V in series. Currently I am using a 20 awg (or perhaps 18awg.. I do not remember!) silver plated copper from "navships" eBay seller. The material is fine and took some weeks to burn-in:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25-feet-18-AWG-Silver-Plated-PTFE-teflon-Wire-Gray-Solid-1-Strand-made-in-USA/380927049734?hash=item58b1058006:g:0VQAAOSw8lBTmkKE

 

In the positive pole between batteries and the amp stage there is a small 5x20 AMR gold fuse to protect amp from overload.

 

Initally I was decided to purchase some runs of Neotech 16awg solid UPOCC copper and a Switchcraft 2.5 plug to be build in twisted pair configuration, but here in Computer Audiophile I could see another alternative by using the Canare / Mogami material in star quad configuration, plus JSSG method of shelding.

 

I do not need longer lenghts, about 4 ft / 1,5m would be fine. As my amp already are fed by batteries I suppose energy comes clean in the  amp.

 

Which should be the most relevant question to consider?
  -> The quality of the material applyied used in a less critical configuration (twisted pair) 
  -> The ultmost  configuration (star quad), leaving off the worry concerning the use of a not-so-perfect material (considering those star quad does not use so pure copper as Neotech claims).

 

Finally (sorry about this argually off-topic)... Do you think a fuse is really necessary since I am using a direct connection from the batteries, which already supply stable/regulated current?

Thanks in advance.

Marcelo

[d_elm]

17 hours ago, MarceloEduardo said:

Hello everyone!

I am thinking about upgrade a DC cable between two 12V 7A batteries that feeds my Graham Slee Reflex phono stage with 24V in series. Currently I am using a 20 awg (or perhaps 18awg.. I do not remember!) silver plated copper from "navships" eBay seller. The material is fine and took some weeks to burn-in:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25-feet-18-AWG-Silver-Plated-PTFE-teflon-Wire-Gray-Solid-1-Strand-made-in-USA/380927049734?hash=item58b1058006:g:0VQAAOSw8lBTmkKE

 

In the positive pole between batteries and the amp stage there is a small 5x20 AMR gold fuse to protect amp from overload.

 

Initally I was decided to purchase some runs of Neotech 16awg solid UPOCC copper and a Switchcraft 2.5 plug to be build in twisted pair configuration, but here in Computer Audiophile I could see another alternative by using the Canare / Mogami material in star quad configuration, plus JSSG method of shelding.

 

I do not need longer lenghts, about 4 ft / 1,5m would be fine. As my amp already are fed by batteries I suppose energy comes clean in the  amp.

 

Which should be the most relevant question to consider?
  -> The quality of the material applyied used in a less critical configuration (twisted pair) 
  -> The ultmost  configuration (star quad), leaving off the worry concerning the use of a not-so-perfect material (considering those star quad does not use so pure copper as Neotech claims).

 

Finally (sorry about this argually off-topic)... Do you think a fuse is really necessary since I am using a direct connection from the batteries, which already supply stable/regulated current?

Thanks in advance.

Marcelo

Perhaps you could make a starquad cable using Neotech UP-OCC 18 AWG copper and Oyaide DC-2.1G[L] connectors with JSSG.  I can post pictures of such a project if interested.  I am not sure if the cable leads to better sound but at least I will not think about DC cables again.

[MarceloEduardo]

23 minutes ago, d_elm said:

Perhaps you could make a starquad cable using Neotech UP-OCC 18 AWG copper and Oyaide DC-2.1G[L] connectors with JSSG.  I can post pictures of such a project if interested.  I am not sure if the cable leads to better sound but at least I will not think about DC cables again.

Hello.. yes, please! Pictures will be truly appreciated and very helpful, since I have no idea how to make a proper star quad.

 

I also thought in Duelund 16 awg tinned copper wire that is very well regarded for IC but I am afraid inits use for power cable. Is it safety to feed 24V through a cotton insulated wire?

 

Best regards.

 

Marcelo 

 

[d_elm]

1 hour ago, MarceloEduardo said:

Hello.. yes, please! Pictures will be truly appreciated and very helpful, since I have no idea how to make a proper star quad.

 

I also thought in Duelund 16 awg tinned copper wire that is very well regarded for IC but I am afraid inits use for power cable. Is it safety to feed 24V through a cotton insulated wire?

 

Best regards.

 

Marcelo 

 

Belden 9418, 4x18 AWG implementing a starquad, + JSSG is likely all that is needed for a DC cable.  The starquad pattern is for lowest inductance and 18 AWG is for lowest resistance with wires that will fit into an Oyaide connector.  Silver conducts only 6% better than

copper and silver wire is very expensive so I did not consider it for building a cable.

 

Connectors can make a large contribution to the resistance of a cable.  Low cost connectors ($0.50 each) I measured were about 5.0 milliOhm and Oyaide DC-2.1G[L] connectors were less than 0.5 milliOhm.  The 80cm DC cables I made had a resistance on each line, including Oyaide connectors, of 8.0 milliOhm.  I do not have a working signal generator to determine the inductance.

 

To make a starquad I purchased Neotech hook-up wire, 18 AWG stranded with PVC insulation.  This wire with silver insulation is 2.76 mm OD and with red insulation is 2.83 mm.  The same wire with PTFE insulation, much more expensive, I have read is 2.2 mm OD, perhaps a bit easier to work with.

 

I started with soldering two red wires to a DC-2.1GL.  The wires are horizontal in connector.

 

 

The insulation is too thick for four wires to go through the Oyaide connector barrel so I replaced insulation on the silver wires with heat shrink tubing.

 

Ensure the heat shrink tubing is long enough to clear the end of the connector barrel.

 

There is a temporary piece of heat shrink tubing to aid in connecting the silver pair to the connector.

 

Remove after soldering as there is little room inside the barrel.

 

I used 1/4" pieces of 3/8" 2:1 heat shrink, about every 1.5",  to hold the four wires in a starquad pattern.

 

I covered the starquad with 1/4" braided shield before the second connector was attached.  If the second connector is attached

first 3/8" braided shield is needed, to get over the connector.

 

 

The other connector I used is an Oyaide DC-2.1G and the red wires are soldered in the vertical position.

 

And the final assembly of the straight connector.

 

I covered the cable with 1/4" Techflex clean cut pet expandable tubing and held it in place with 3/8" heat shrink tubing.

 

Have fun !

 

 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, d_elm said:

Belden 9418, 4x18 AWG implementing a starquad, + JSSG is likely all that is needed for a DC cable.  The starquad pattern is for lowest inductance and 18 AWG is for lowest resistance with wires that will fit into an Oyaide connector.  Silver conducts only 6% better than

copper and silver wire is very expensive so I did not consider it for building a cable.

 

Connectors can make a large contribution to the resistance of a cable.  Low cost connectors ($0.50 each) I measured were about 5.0 milliOhm and Oyaide DC-2.1G[L] connectors were less than 0.5 milliOhm.  The 80cm DC cables I made had a resistance on each line, including Oyaide connectors, of 8.0 milliOhm.  I do not have a working signal generator to determine the inductance.

 

To make a starquad I purchased Neotech hook-up wire, 18 AWG stranded with PVC insulation.  This wire with silver insulation is 2.76 mm OD and with red insulation is 2.83 mm.  The same wire with PTFE insulation, much more expensive, I have read is 2.2 mm OD, perhaps a bit easier to work with.

 

I started with soldering two red wires to a DC-2.1GL.  The wires are horizontal in connector.

 

 

The insulation is too thick for four wires to go through the Oyaide connector barrel so I replaced insulation on the silver wires with heat shrink tubing.

 

Ensure the heat shrink tubing is long enough to clear the end of the connector barrel.

 

There is a temporary piece of heat shrink tubing to aid in connecting the silver pair to the connector.

 

Remove after soldering as there is little room inside the barrel.

 

I used 1/4" pieces of 3/8" 2:1 heat shrink, about every 1.5",  to hold the four wires in a starquad pattern.

 

I covered the starquad with 1/4" braided shield before the second connector was attached.  If the second connector is attached

first 3/8" braided shield is needed, to get over the connector.

 

 

The other connector I used is an Oyaide DC-2.1G and the red wires are soldered in the vertical position.

 

And the final assembly of the straight connector.

 

I covered the cable with 1/4" Techflex clean cut pet expandable tubing and held it in place with 3/8" heat shrink tubing.

 

Have fun !

 

 

Awesome post, especially for those who are beginners to DIY.

[tims]

I'm going to use starquad Van Damme microphone cable here: http://www.van-damme.com/_pdf/13 Tour Grade Classic XKE Starquad microphone cable.pdf where it states the individual wire size is 7 x 0.08mm (7 strands) which (when doubled) is around 18awg if I understand correctly. 

If this is right will my cable handle currents up to 6 amps with a length of around 500mm?

 

Thanks.

[d_elm]

1 hour ago, tims said:

I'm going to use starquad Van Damme microphone cable here: http://www.van-damme.com/_pdf/13 Tour Grade Classic XKE Starquad microphone cable.pdf where it states the individual wire size is 7 x 0.08mm (7 strands) which (when doubled) is around 18awg if I understand correctly. 

If this is right will my cable handle currents up to 6 amps with a length of around 500mm?

 

Thanks.

I calculate there will be a 0.06V drop at 6 amps, assuming Oyaide connectors,  but I do not know if that is ok or bad. The current draw likely changes and so does the voltage drop.  The suggestions are to use the largest AWG practical and that is probably around 17 when altering the insulation thickness to fit the wires into a connector.

[BigGuy]

Questions re DIY USB...

 

Planning on doing starquad for the 5+/GND with JSSG.

 

Does it make sense to use starquad for the D+/D- or is twisted pair with JSSG more than adequate?

 

Planning on bundling signal and power separately.

 

Has the issue of cable lengths <1/2m or >1m been resolved to any extent?  I have read that 1m is really not a good choice.