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DAVE vs. ?


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My Esoteric K07x SACD player has also been my DAC for the last couple of years.  With the advent of reliable SACD ripping, I rarely use it now for disc duties.  I've been wondering for a while just how it would stack up against a SOTA DAC and managed to borrow a Chord DAVE over the weekend.  I wasn't looking in particular at the DAVE, just wanted to try something available and representative of DACS broadly considered to be in division 1 at the moment.  

 

In terms of my bank balance at least, I was hoping that DAVE would be maybe a little better than the Esoteric, but not enough to justify a change.  Unfortunately what I'm hearing is way better than I'm used to,  a big 3D sound with masses of subtle texture and detail previously unheard, not least  on RBCD and 24/96.

 

DAVE is also a lot of money and  I haven't yet had the opportunity of hearing much else besides.  My question, to those who have been able to spend quality time with DAVE vs others in their own system, is whether you have found anything that betters DAVE  at the price or alternatively comes close but  at a significantly lower price point?  Preferably across both PCM and DSD and up to 384/ DSDx4  but would also be interested in competitors with standout strengths or value in just one or the other.  Thanks.

 

 

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17 hours ago, skatbelt said:

The only downside is it's internal headphone amp. It certainly is not bad but with more difficult to drive headphones like my LCD-3 you are better of with a good quality dedicated headphone amp. The combination DAVE and my Bakoon HPA-21 is the best I ever heard in terms of headphone listening.

 

 

 

Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, Audirvana 3.5.19) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

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I have to admit I have not heard the Chord "Dave" yet in my system but I just did audition the new Metrum Acoustics "Adagio" NOS DAC (or the equivalent Metrum Acoustics "Pavane" Level 3 DAC without volume control). In combination with my Bakoon "HPA-21" and my Sennheiser "HD800" headphone this is by far the most revealing and natural sounding DAC I have ever listened to!

Compared to other OS DACs (e.g. T+A "DAC 8", PS Audio "DirectStream") there are more and finer details, more black background, deeper and wider soundstage, simply more connection to the music. You sometimes feel as you are part of the musicians and singers on the stage and hear what only they hear when playing so much holograpic, 3D like sound is coming to your ears.

I can only explain this with the NOS principles of the DAC and the already very natural sounding Bakoon and Sennheiser in my chain. This to me is a whole new level of connectedness to music and the way the music initially was recorded in the studio or live on stage.

Best Regards,

Raimund

Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, Audirvana 3.5.19) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

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Thanks to all who have replied and especially to Skatbelt  for precisely the kind of hands-on comparison  I was looking for.

 

If anyone has compared DAVE  in their own system with Lampizator Atlantic, the "cheaper" Totaldac or MSB offerings,  Hugo TT or 2,  Yggdrasil for PCM, or T&A 8 for DSD please  feel free to contribute...

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5 hours ago, Raimund Heubel said:

I have to admit I have not heard the Chord "Dave" yet in my system but I just did audition the new Metrum Acoustics "Adagio" NOS DAC (or the equivalent Metrum Acoustics "Pavane" Level 3 DAC without volume control). In combination with my Bakoon "HPA-21" and my Sennheiser "HD800" headphone this is by far the most revealing and natural sounding DAC I have ever listened to!

Compared to other OS DACs (e.g. T+A "DAC 8", PS Audio "DirectStream") there are more and finer details, more black background, deeper and wider soundstage, simply more connection to the music. You sometimes feel as you are part of the musicians and singers on the stage and hear what only they hear when playing so much holograpic, 3D like sound is coming to your ears.

I can only explain this with the NOS principles of the DAC and the already very natural sounding Bakoon and Sennheiser in my chain. This to me is a whole new level of connectedness to music and the way the music initially was recorded in the studio or live on stage.

Best Regards,

Raimund

 

For me the Pavane was the best of the rest. It came a bit short in soundstage accurateness and depth and also in timbre and the ability to unravel complex material compared to DAVE but as you said, natural, smooth (rounded?) and very musical. Good bass control as well! A side note: the Pavane only shined after I switched from it's USB-input to it's AES/EBU-input (and a Mutec MC-3+ USB added to the chain). Later on the dealer told me that the USB-implementation of Metrum is not SOTA at the moment on all products but they seem to work on that.

 

I would characterise the Pavane as a DAC for music lovers and the others I listed more as DAC's for audiophiles. Analytical and sterile, the one more than the other. The beautiful thing about DAVE is that it delivers the same musicality but without sacrifices on other parameters.

 

You should audition DAVE with your Bakoon/HD800 combo. You will be amazed!

Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz

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47 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

@Norton

 

You may want to look at the two Focal Utopia threads over at Head-Fi. There are a number of DAVE owners who love the combination, and settled on the DAVE after using some of the DACs mentioned in your post above.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

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13 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

I'd love to see a Dave 2 option that was only a DAC.  Simplify maybe reduce the price a bit.

Agreed.  I don't actually need the preamp or headphone features either, although whether removing them would actually affect pricing I'm not so sure.  Based on material value, and even given the nice if slightly quirky build, my immediate impression was that there was absolutely no way DAVE was worth £8k+; after listening, I guess the price is really simply an  admission charge to that level of sound quality.

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29 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

For me the Pavane was the best of the rest. It came a bit short in soundstage accurateness and depth and also in timbre and the ability to unravel complex material compared to DAVE but as you said, natural, smooth (rounded?) and very musical. Good bass control as well! A side note: the Pavane only shined after I switched from it's USB-input to it's AES/EBU-input (and a Mutec MC-3+ USB added to the chain). Later on the dealer told me that the USB-implementation of Metrum is not SOTA at the moment on all products but they seem to work on that.

 

I would characterise the Pavane as a DAC for music lovers and the others I listed more as DAC's for audiophiles. Analytical and sterile, the one more than the other. The beautiful thing about DAVE is that it delivers the same musicality but without sacrifices on other parameters.

 

You should audition DAVE with your Bakoon/HD800 combo. You will be amazed!

I also always listened to the Adagio via AES/EBU input with the Artistic Fidelity "Afi USB" DDC in between my source and the "Adagio". The "Adagio" or the "Pavane Level 3" features 8(!) of the new DAC Two modules with each containing 2 Ladder DACs and an FPGA integrated into one module. There is definitely an improvement in details and sound over the original "Pavane" (= Pavane Level 1) with the DAC One modules and one single FPGA.

I cannot believe a Chord "Dave" at its price point of twice the price of an "Adagio" is twice as good, to me the "Adagio" already is the 'End-Game-DAC'. I am more than ever convinced that Oversampling as a technique and concept - how well it may be executed in the "Dave" or any other OS DACs - is not the way forward to bring music to life, it cannot be right.

 

Best Regards,

Raimund

Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, Audirvana 3.5.19) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

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I don't own a Dave, but I do own an Atlantic. For my entire life I've preferred vinyl over digital, but after listening to DSD files with the Atlantic I've now put the equivalent vinyl LP's onto Discogs for sale.

TT VPI Prime Signature/Benz Micro LP-S DACs Lampizator Golden Atlantic, Lampizator Euforia DSD Preamps Mac C500T, Mac MX121 Amps Mac MC75 60th Ann. (*2), Mac MC205, Glenn 300B Speakers Dynaudio C1 Platinum, B&W 804S Headphones LCD-3, LCD-4
Mobile: AK240, Shure 846
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29 minutes ago, Raimund Heubel said:

I also always listened to the Adagio via AES/EBU input with the Artistic Fidelity "Afi USB" DDC in between my source and the "Adagio". The "Adagio" or the "Pavane Level 3" features 8(!) of the new DAC Two modules with each containing 2 Ladder DACs and an FPGA integrated into one module. There is definitely an improvement in details and sound over the original "Pavane" (= Pavane Level 1) with the DAC One modules and one single FPGA.

I cannot believe a Chord "Dave" at its price point of twice the price of an "Adagio" is twice as good, to me the "Adagio" already is the 'End-Game-DAC'. I am more than ever convinced that Oversampling as a technique and concept - how well it may be executed in the "Dave" or any other OS DACs - is not the way forward to bring music to life, it cannot be right.

 

Best Regards,

Raimund

 

I auditioned a Pavane (level 2), so with the new DAC two modules as well. Your statement on OS DAC's is kind of bold but I don't want to get into a NOS vs OS discussion. I am open to everything and I follow my ears and the things I value when listening to music. And I did not say that DAVE is twice as good. Unfortunately is this hobby, you have to pay twice to get 10 or 20 percent more.

Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz

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8 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

I auditioned a Pavane (level 2), so with the new DAC two modules as well. Your statement on OS DAC's is kind of bold but I don't want to get into a NOS vs OS discussion. I am open to everything and I follow my ears and the things I value when listening to music. And I did not say that DAVE is twice as good. Unfortunately is this hobby, you have to pay twice to get 10 or 20 percent more.

I agree it is a bold statement and I also agree that I did not quote you when making the point about the twice as high price of the "Dave" vs. the "Adagio".

For me personnally the price-performance-ratio of the 6k priced "Adagio" is just about acceptable for the improvement in sound you get compared to the let's say $2 - $3k league of DACs. I am simply not willing to pay another extra $6k for the "Dave" to potentially get an even futher refined sound. I am not convinced at all.

And yes it would lead to an almost philosophical discussion about the NOS vs. OS technics and principles.

 

Best Regards,

Raimund

Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, Audirvana 3.5.19) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

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