Article: Audio Research DAC 9 Review

[miguelito]

8 hours ago, Doak said:

Apparently the ONLY reason someone would buy this item is because it has the AR name on it. 

Oh cmon... The name means sound quality. Obviously they screwed up on the USB interface, how they sort that out will be testament to whether they are a great company or not. 

[Doak]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

Oh cmon... The name means sound quality. Obviously they screwed up on the USB interface, how they sort that out will be testament to whether they are a great company or not. 

Scary AR would push a product out that they KNEW had problems with the hope that they could fix it down the line.  Unconscionable IMO. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Doak said:

Scary AR would push a product out that they KNEW had problems with the hope that they could fix it down the line.  Unconscionable IMO. 

 

Perhaps I have a different idea of what unconscionable means. Dropping sarin gas on one's own people = unconscionable. Releasing a product with a less than great USB interface = not the best move. 

[Doak]

OK>.. a it strong, but when a company charges $7500 for a supposedly premium product this type of thing IMO is unacceptable.

[satbox]

21 hours ago, Doak said:

OK>.. a it strong, but when a company charges $7500 for a supposedly premium product this type of thing IMO is unacceptable.

+1000.  For this type of high end product, users can not be beta testers

[Miko]

At this price point, those shortcoming are unacceptable.... way too many DAC's that can offer none of these problems. ARC is not the same company. Trading on name recognition will not get the new owners very far. 

 

Too bad...ARC was once a very respectful American brand. It died...along with the purple pill popper.....

[james45974]

7 hours ago, Miko said:

Too bad...ARC was once a very respectful American brand. It died...along with the purple pill popper.....

Although I can't put my finger on anything specific I personally feel that the brands in the holding company have lost their mojo in some way, not only AR.

 

Too bad there were no internal pictures, wonder how much empty space is there in order to conform to the pretty rigid corporate product identity.

 

And, by the way, the 80's called, they want their faux rack handles back!

[The Computer Audiophile]

[austinpop]

Chris, nice review.

 

One question though - do you have a policy of not making product comparisons? You, probably more than most of us, must have access to a bigger suite of products on hand at any given time.

 

With products like these, and at price points like these, the information I want is not - does it sound wonderful? It had better damn do so! No - I want to know how it sounds relative to something else. That something else could be at a comparable price point, which would assess the review piece with its direct competition. And/or, it could be at a lower price point - for example, something well-known, like the Yggy- to answer the question: what does buying up gets you?

 

That is, after all, what we discuss on these forums on a daily basis!

 

Bus perhaps you're going after a different audience in these reviews?

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Chris, nice review.

 

One question though - do you have a policy of not making product comparisons? You, probably more than most of us, must have access to a bigger suite of products on hand at any given time.

 

With products like these, and at price points like these, the information I want is not - does it sound wonderful? It had better damn do so! No - I want to know how it sounds relative to something else. That something else could be at a comparable price point, which would assess the review piece with its direct competition. And/or, it could be at a lower price point - for example, something well-known, like the Yggy- to answer the question: what does buying up gets you?

 

That is, after all, what we discuss on these forums on a daily basis!

 

Bus perhaps you're going after a different audience in these reviews?

 

Hi austinpop - Thanks for the comment. I have no such policy with respect to comparisons. Comparing components sounds like the answer to cancer, but in reality it's much different. I do it on occasion when I'm inspired to compare some products. for example in the Yggdrasil review I compared some of the sonic qualities to the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC RS.

 

For the most part, these comparisons cause more problems than they solve. Publishing articles like Top 10 USB DACs or DAC Shootout are terrific clickbait for search engine traffic and lead people to believe they are getting the real answers they need / want, but in reality these kinds of articles are a disservice and are solely for the publisher looking to boost the bottom line. 

 

In this context specifically, there is no end to what could be compared. For example, below is a list of DACs on the CASH List right now. What would it mean if I compared the DAC 9 to one of them. What about two of them? Who would that comparison really help? These are somewhat rhetorical questions. 

 

A couple other points; the length of a review is unlimited in theory but very limited in reality. Nobody wants to read a 6,000 word review. In fact, many people read the first paragraph and the conclusion. It's (modern) human nature I guess. In addition, it's a tricky situation for manufacturers that send me gear. Not necessarily those sending me gear for the review at hand. Would a manufacturer want to send me gear for review, knowing that a couple weeks after the review I may use it in several comparisons (without sending the comparisons to them for fact checking or further manufacturer's comments, etc...)? I doubt it. It's not that most manufacturers don't have confidence in their products, it's more of the subjective nature of this hobby that worries them and the system dependencies that can throw off reviews big time. Some manufacturers won't let me review the component unless they personally visit my listening room for setup. They are careful and know how strange things happen that lead to unnecessary negative reviews. If I do a comparison of three DACs, it's just not feasible to have three manufacturers present for the comparison. 

 

Can you think of a comparison involving the DAC 9 that would really benefit readers? I'm honestly open to the discussion. Perhaps we should start a separate forum thread to discuss the issue.

 

 

Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC / Preamp & PS-5 Power Supply $1,995 & $595

AudioQuest DragonFly Red & DragonFly Black $199 & $99

Auralic Vega $3,500

Ayre Acoustics QB-9DSD DAC $3,250

Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC $5,000 (Replaced by Alpha DAC Series 2 in 2011)

Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 2 $19,500

Chord Electronics QBD76HD / QBD76HDSD $7,000 / $8,500

EMM Labs DAC2X $15,500

exaSound e12 $1,999

exaSound e28 (Multichannel) $3,299

Hegel Music Systems HD30 $4,800

Lumin Network Music Player $7,200

Luxman DA-06 $6,000

Meitner Audio MA-1 $7,000

Meridian Explorer $299

MOON by Simaudio Neo 380D DSD $5,500 with MiND, $6,100 with MiND and variable analog outputs

Mytek Brooklyn DAC $1,995

Schiit Audio Yggdrasil $2,299

T+A Elektroakustik Music Player Balanced $4,500 ($310 for optional preamp module)
 

[Account Closed]

Without getting into 6000 words, I will say that your reviews are usually very good and I look forward to reading them. But, they do mostly exist in a bubble of sorts. They float without being connected to the reality of the reader. So I do agree that some comparisons that would anchor them would be most welcome from my perspective as well.

[Ralf11]

Yes, a comparison involving the DAC 9 and the Yggy would really benefit readers - even if the Yggy "loses" it costs a lot less

 

personally, I'd really like to know what "extra" I get when I move from say $500 to $2,000 to $5,000 etc.  (not gonna buy a $30,000 DAC)

[The Computer Audiophile]

16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Yes, a comparison involving the DAC 9 and the Yggy would really benefit readers - even if the Yggy "loses" it costs a lot less

 

personally, I'd really like to know what "extra" I get when I move from say $500 to $2,000 to $5,000 etc.  (not gonna buy a $30,000 DAC)

 

There's the rub. Where do the comparisons start and stop? Not only for you, but the next guy who wants a comparison to something else. 

[miguelito]

15 hours ago, Miko said:

purple pill popper.....

Hey! Prince was a genius.  Respect!

[miguelito]

7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ok so it's not an ifi nano in a big case. Good to know...

 

Come to think of it, it would've not had any USB issues if it had been a nano! BADAM!!!

 

[miguelito]

I would like a few comparisons as well. I think those are pretty hard to do to be honest - I certainly have trouble describing in words what I hear, but I do know what I like.

 

For example, I would like to know sound comps between the following DACs:

 

Group A - the 5 figs fam

Nagra HD/EMM Labs DA2/dCS Rossini (with and without ext clock)/TotalDAC D12/MSB Analog DAC/Lampizator Golden Gate + DSD

(dCS Vivaldi and MSB's top of the line interesting as well)

 

Group B - the 4 figs fam

T+A DAC8/Ayre QB-9DSD/Auralic Vega/ARC DAC9/Yggy

 

Group C - the 3 figs fam

iFi micro black/Dragonfly Red/others...

 

And in all these cases I would like to know comps with HQPlayer upsampling both to PCM384 and DSD128 as well as not upsampled.

 

Get to work!

 

[Miko]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

Hey! Prince was a genius.  Respect!

 

I have zero respect for junkies.. how many of these talented people have had their lives cut short because of addition?

 

How many of these same addicts without the financial means to support their habit have killed innocent people?

 

Mother Nature will separate the Wheat from the Chaff.... Just another statistic.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Miko said:

 

I have zero respect for junkies.. how many of these talented people have had their lives cut short because of addition?

 

How many of these same addicts without the financial means to support their habit have killed innocent people?

 

Mother Nature will separate the Wheat from the Chaff.... Just another statistic.

 

Wow, the guy was prescribed opiates by a physician for pain after joint replacement. He got physiologically addicted to them and accidentally died. 

 

I have tons of respect for his work and feel sorry for him and his family. 

[Miko]

The real players just have a Doctor/Drug Dealer on hand 24/7... like M.J....

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

There's the rub. Where do the comparisons start and stop? Not only for you, but the next guy who wants a comparison to something else. 

 

Sure.  But any comparison ought to be better than no comparison.

 

I'd love to see you compare the DAC in the forthcoming Oppo disc player to the yggy.

 

While waiting to get an Oppo unit you could compare the Yggy to a well-reviewed $5,000 DAC.  There is certainly a lot of ... um.... interest in the yggy vs. others.

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

There's the rub. Where do the comparisons start and stop? Not only for you, but the next guy who wants a comparison to something else. 

 

Chris, I appreciate your dilemma, as mentioned in your previous response and this one. And I appreciate the logistical and political realities you have to deal with as a reviewer. These are precisely the same realities that reviewers at "the stereo magazines" must deal with, and you know how highly those are regarded in this forum. 

 

But with that said, I guess the question to ask is - what are you trying to achieve with a formal review with all these limitations? Does it help drive eyeballs and revenue to your site? If so, that's good to know. I'm all for that, if it helps fund the forums, for example.

 

Perhaps the ideal reviewer is someone who's independently wealthy, incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about high-end computer audio, and who has the leisure time to write truly critical, comparative reviews with equipment they purchased outright, with no strings attached. Incredibly enough, I know more than 1 or 2 CA'ers who would fit that description!

 

And that takes me to my final point. Like a lot of CA'ers, I've come to rely, far more than reviews, on the expertise of some truly outstanding participants in the forums, whose advice has consistently paid off, and who give so unselfishly of their time and expertise. 

 

Maybe instead of writing formal reviews, you might consider applying all that time and effort to do it informally in a discussion thread on the forum, where you don't feel constrained in the way you described? Just wondering.

[miguelito]

3 hours ago, Miko said:

I have zero respect for junkies.. how many of these talented people have had their lives cut short because of addition?

Damn... You must be listening to Christian Rock all day... Not even... Nothing else is drug free.

[Miko]

Layne from Alice In Chains...that really disappointed me. No, I don't listen to any Religious music (that is topic I'm not even getting involved in).

 

And I have done my share and a few other people's worth of drugs in my life. I know what it does and I know what it's like to lose friends that way. Hence my disdain for an artist I would have not figured to be so hooked into it that he kills himself. 

 

So so please don't get the wrong impression. I didn't say his music sucked, quite the contrary. I have enjoyed his music for many years. I just was saying that anyone who allows themselves to get to that point, with all the resources at their disposal is sad and I cannot empathize.

 

This is my last statement on that as I'm not a hijacker by nature. 

[james45974]

Wow, tough crowd!

[LarryMagoo]

I hope the Yggdrasil messes up the entire High End pricing paradigm....$7500 when the Yggy will at the very least, keep up with it....for less than a 1/3 of the price!