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SOTM tX-USBultra impressions


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4 hours ago, moussaobeid said:

Although I am happy with the sound I got, I am still not 100% content with the fact that I lost two isolation devices in my system, LPS-1 and intona. These two isolation tweaks gave me a big boost in sound in my previous setup, and now that I have a better sound without these isolation devices in the chain, I am wondering whether I am getting the full potential of the super clock in the tX. 

In other words the gain from the tX is bigger than the loss of 2 isolation units, what if the isolation is still there?

 

I hear you, and have the same question. Well, let's break it down:

  1. Inline isolation on the USB chain (like the Intona) - this is a classic tradeoff between signal integrity and isolation. Both Uptone, SOtM, and others, have said that galvanic isolation on USB is hard to do without compromising jitter. The Intona is said to have subpar clocks. So the net effect of an isolation device is the benefit of leakage loop removal, but also the loss of signal integrity due to poor clocks. So the net benefit here is questionable, and in some cases, could be a net loss in SQ, like you saw. Of course, you could add an ISO-Regen (powered by LPS-1) upstream of the tX-USBultra! :D Only half-joking - it may actually sound rather good, but at a significant cost.
     
  2. Isolation from AC (a la LPS-1): here, there is very likely a gain to be had, but at a cost of another ultracapacitor supply, i.e. another VR Mini, i.e. another $1k. Cha-ching!
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@austinpop

you could add an ISO-Regen (powered by LPS-1) upstream of the tX-USBultra! :D Only half-joking - it may actually sound rather good, but at a significant cost.

 

I follow your logic and agree, what about an tX in series as well ? isolation +super clocking twice :)

 

Isolation from AC (a la LPS-1): here, there is very likely a gain to be had, but at a cost of another ultracapacitor supply, i.e. another VR Mini, i.e. another $1k. Cha-ching!

 

I think so too, I may end up selling my two LPS-1s to finance that

 

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I think you need some kind of galvanic isolation in your system, I take it your DAC doesn't have any.  Getting rid of the Intona with it's poor clocks is a good move.  I would add the ISO Regen with an LPS-1 and go with their new adapters.  This would work great in your chain having the best clock in the tX-USBUltra preceding your DAC.  Drop the 5Vbus in the adapter between the ISO Regen and tX-USBUltra. 

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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27 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I think you need some kind of galvanic isolation in your system, I take it your DAC doesn't have any.  Getting rid of the Intona with it's poor clocks is a good move.  I would add the ISO Regen with an LPS-1 and go with their new adapters.  This would work great in your chain having the best clock in the tX-USBUltra preceding your DAC.  Drop the 5Vbus in the adapter between the ISO Regen and tX-USBUltra. 

 

 

Lol, and I thought that I will simplify my chain, and now something new pops up

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10 minutes ago, mozes said:

 

Lol, and I thought that I will simplify my chain, and now something new pops up

 

It never ends.  Actually I have an ulterior motive also, I want to add the ISO Regen or tX USBUltra to my chain, but I have galvanic isolation in my DAC and really don't want to add it twice with the ISO Regen, thus I'm leaning towards the SOTM component, especially if an LPS-1 can power it.  I need your impression, testing.  LOL, but really I think your chain lends more credence to having both.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Just now, ElviaCaprice said:

 

It never ends.  Actually I have an ulterior motive also, I want to add the ISO Regen or tX USBUltra to my chain, but I have galvanic isolation in my DAC and really don't want to add it twice with the ISO Regen, thus I'm leaning towards the SOTM component.  I need your impression, testing.  LOL, but really I think your chain lends more credence to having both.

I already have an LPS-1 so it is becoming more tempting :)

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A quick summary of my impressions on the intona which is more relevant here now.

 

I disconnected my intona so my chain now looks like this:

Nimitra>>tX USBultra>>Brooklyn

 

I have to say that I hardly noticed any difference in sound, maybe a bit more dynamics but a notch brighter. I put it back but again hard to detect differences, if any it has to be subtle.  I feel that it is redundant in my chain now, it doesn't give the big boost that I used to get from it like before.

 

I removed it and soon will be going to the resale market. It seems that the tX is excellent on its own.

I also tried the battery on the tX, but I didn't like it made it softer and lost microdynamics. Then I used a Y adapter to power both the Brooklyn and tX from the VR MINI, but I didn't like it at all, sounded harsh and musicality was lost. I also tried the 3rd option which is to swap the pwoer supplies to I put the JS-2 on the Brooklyn and the VR on the tX, I prefered the original setup as I felt some magic was lost.

So now the best configuration to my ears is:

NImitra (JS-2)>>tX (JS-2)>>Brooklyn (VR MINI)

 

My learning is that it may not be a good idea to share the same power supply through Y adapters, but this is only in my system and keep in mind that the Y adapter is a cheapo from ebay not my OCC copper wire with Oyaide connectors.

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19 hours ago, mozes said:

I have to say that I hardly noticed any difference in sound, maybe a bit more dynamics but a notch brighter. I put it back but again hard to detect differences, if any it has to be subtle. 

That's also my impression in my chain (SOtM sMS-200 -> Intona Industrial -> AFI-USB (DDC) -> DAC). It's just that tonal difference (brighter vs. darker/warmer). My preference tends to the warmer sound. All other sonic parameters remains the same with/without Intona, so it stays in my chain.

 

To return to topic: thank you for sharing your impressions regarding tx-USBultra. I think the new sMS-200 Ultra will be the synthesis of sMS-200 plus the tx-USBultra.

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13 minutes ago, Fujak said:

I think the new sMS-200 Ultra will be the synthesis of sMS-200 plus the tx-USBultra.

 

Yes, same super clock board but a big difference in format capabilities, software etc., considering one can bypass the ethernet renderer, as long as there is good USB galvanic isolation.   For those without galvanic isolation and even with, it will be interesting to compare all the different configurations with all these devices once released.  Big question, still is, does USB streaming from server, no NAA/renderer, with correct configuration of components, equal or excel the need for a renderer for best SQ?

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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12 minutes ago, Fujak said:

That's also my impression in my chain (SOtM sMS-200 -> Intona Industrial -> AFI-USB (DDC) -> DAC). It's just that tonal difference (brighter vs. darker/warmer). My preference tends to the warmer sound. All other sonic parameters remains the same with/without Intona, so it stays in my chain.

 

To return to topic: thank you for sharing your impressions regarding tx-USBultra. I think the new sMS-200 Ultra will be the synthesis of sMS-200 plus the tx-USBultra.

You just reminded me about the warmer sound with the intona, I also felt the same but again a subtle one

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4 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

 Big question, still is, does complete USB streaming from server now, with correct configuration of components, equal or excel the need for a renderer for best SQ?

Exactly, that is also my key question. I am working on optimizing my USB chain straight to the DAC, but I also ask myself what If I also add an SMS-200ultra in front it

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52 minutes ago, mozes said:

Exactly, that is also my key question. I am working on optimizing my USB chain straight to the DAC, but I also ask myself what If I also add an SMS-200ultra in front it

I do understand your question, but still Nimitra is a truly great streamer. Personally I think it is time for you to seattle down and enjoy the ride for a little while. Some upgrades do not come easy. At a certain level you will have to keep calm and wait for it. I strongly believe that you have reached this point! Stay calm and and you will see it coming! ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, mozes said:

Wise words @Cornan 

 

I also feel that I am almost there where I should stop and let my system relax and gel together. 

 

You should!  With your optimized setup with a truly dedicated mains separated into a separate ananolue and digital domains I have a hard time finding anything at all to complain about. Maybe just to add an unshielded USB path? I am not even sure that will improve sq in your perticular setup! ? You might be left with PSU upgrades only, but just minor ones. Damn you! ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

You should!  With your optimized setup with a truly dedicated mains separated into a separate ananolue and digital domains I have a hard time finding anything at all to complain about. Maybe just to add an unshielded USB path? I am not even sure that will improve sq in your perticular setup! ? You might be left with PSU upgrades only, but just minor ones. Damn you! ?

My new VR mini will be delivered soon to go with the tX and then the JS-2 will be dedicated to Nimitra only, and then I am done :) (of course the iso regen doesn't count :) )

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4 hours ago, mozes said:

My new VR mini will be delivered soon to go with the tX and then the JS-2 will be dedicated to Nimitra only, and then I am done :) (of course the iso regen doesn't count :) )

Do you feel that the VR Mini is better than the LPS-1 or JS-2, sound wise ?

Could you (or others) rank the best LPSs from purely a sonic perspective ? it would be very useful, thank you.

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9 minutes ago, mozes said:

I can't rank the 3 against each other, but this is what I have done.

I have compared JS-2   and LPS-1 with the RUR and I preferred the LPS-1.

 

I have also compared the VR Mini and JS-2 with the Brooklyn and I preferred the VR.

 

This is system dependent and the order of each device in the chain also matters. For example, I didn't detect any difference between the VR and JS-2 with the Nimitra when I had the Intona  and RUR in the chain.

 

my chain at the time of those tests looked like this:

Nimitra>intona>RUR>Brooklyn

 

If I will have to pick one PSU, It will be the JS-2 as this is the most versatile and offers the best value for money (relative to many PSUs)

the differences are very small, to my ears all of these PSUs are excellent and within 5% of each other, I hate to quantify but you get the idea.

 

That all makes sense when you dig deep into it.  Its largely about mapping and blocking the various leakage loops in your system.  Only the LPS-1 and VR mini are able to 100% block those.  And with the Intona (or our almost shipping ISO REGEN) in place, keeping the DAC isolated--both galvanically and leakage-wise--from the computer end will definitely be best. 

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10 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

That all makes sense when you dig deep into it.  Its largely about mapping and blocking the various leakage loops in your system.  Only the LPS-1 and VR mini are able to 100% block those.  And with the Intona (or our almost shipping ISO REGEN) in place, keeping the DAC isolated--both galvanically and leakage-wise--from the computer end will definitely be best. 

Alex, waiting for it!

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On 2017/4/15 at 3:53 AM, mozes said:

Exactly, that is also my key question. I am working on optimizing my USB chain straight to the DAC, but I also ask myself what If I also add an SMS-200ultra in front it

I have the fear that the SQ can be further improved.

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