Popular Post mozes Posted April 12, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 12, 2017 Hi Everyone, I recently delivery of the SOTM tX-USBultra and posted my impressions on another thread, but here it is again for those interested in this device. Initial impressions of SOTM tX-USBultra: I got delivery of my unit yesterday, then I plugged it in my system in the evening. What I did is to critically listen to 3 or tracks on my system with configuration (1): (1) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>RUR (LPS-1)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC. The system simply sounded fabulous, music just flows with a sense of realism and 3D especially after installing my two dedicated circuits (one for digital and another for analogue) Here I would like to mention that I upgraded my AO from version 2.0 to 2.10 and it made a significant improvement, then I upgraded to the beta AO 2.20 and the sound went to another level (more transparent, wide soundstage and better separation). Then I removed the RUR+LPS-1 and replaced them with the SOTM tX-USBultra powered by the second rail of the JS-2 at 12V (my unit has the 12v option) so configuration (2) is as follows: (2) Nimitra (JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Intona>>Curious 20cm link>>SOTM tX-USBultra(JS-2)>>Curious 20cm link>>Brooklyn DAC. just out of the box without any burn-in, configuration 2 clearly elevated the sound of my system in all directions, most importantly to me, a sense of feeling that the music is so real and so clear you feel that the notes are sharper and more defined in the soundstage, a veil taken off the music! (a cliche but it accurately describes my experience) I didn't try to power it with the VR MINI because I use it on the Brooklyn and if I change this configuration, then it won't be A/B comparison anymore. My logic now is that I can improve it by freeing the JS-2 from feeding two units and keep it only to Nimitra and get a dedicated PSU to power the SOTM tX-USBultra, but too early now to make any decisions before I get my DC ammeter working. So (RUR+LPS-1) will be staying with me for a short time to do some A/B comparisons after 1 or 2 weeks when the SOTM tX-USBultra has settled in my system and most probably will be listed for sale. My learning is that isolation by ultra-capacitors is important but super clock with a good LPS can be more important. I hope this helps others on a similar path rawhit, austinpop, Cornan and 2 others 5 Link to comment
austinpop Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 4 hours ago, moussaobeid said: Although I am happy with the sound I got, I am still not 100% content with the fact that I lost two isolation devices in my system, LPS-1 and intona. These two isolation tweaks gave me a big boost in sound in my previous setup, and now that I have a better sound without these isolation devices in the chain, I am wondering whether I am getting the full potential of the super clock in the tX. In other words the gain from the tX is bigger than the loss of 2 isolation units, what if the isolation is still there? I hear you, and have the same question. Well, let's break it down: Inline isolation on the USB chain (like the Intona) - this is a classic tradeoff between signal integrity and isolation. Both Uptone, SOtM, and others, have said that galvanic isolation on USB is hard to do without compromising jitter. The Intona is said to have subpar clocks. So the net effect of an isolation device is the benefit of leakage loop removal, but also the loss of signal integrity due to poor clocks. So the net benefit here is questionable, and in some cases, could be a net loss in SQ, like you saw. Of course, you could add an ISO-Regen (powered by LPS-1) upstream of the tX-USBultra! Only half-joking - it may actually sound rather good, but at a significant cost. Isolation from AC (a la LPS-1): here, there is very likely a gain to be had, but at a cost of another ultracapacitor supply, i.e. another VR Mini, i.e. another $1k. Cha-ching! My Audio Setup Link to comment
mozes Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 @austinpop you could add an ISO-Regen (powered by LPS-1) upstream of the tX-USBultra! Only half-joking - it may actually sound rather good, but at a significant cost. I follow your logic and agree, what about an tX in series as well ? isolation +super clocking twice Isolation from AC (a la LPS-1): here, there is very likely a gain to be had, but at a cost of another ultracapacitor supply, i.e. another VR Mini, i.e. another $1k. Cha-ching! I think so too, I may end up selling my two LPS-1s to finance that MayfromSOtM 1 Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I think you need some kind of galvanic isolation in your system, I take it your DAC doesn't have any. Getting rid of the Intona with it's poor clocks is a good move. I would add the ISO Regen with an LPS-1 and go with their new adapters. This would work great in your chain having the best clock in the tX-USBUltra preceding your DAC. Drop the 5Vbus in the adapter between the ISO Regen and tX-USBUltra. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
mozes Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 27 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said: I think you need some kind of galvanic isolation in your system, I take it your DAC doesn't have any. Getting rid of the Intona with it's poor clocks is a good move. I would add the ISO Regen with an LPS-1 and go with their new adapters. This would work great in your chain having the best clock in the tX-USBUltra preceding your DAC. Drop the 5Vbus in the adapter between the ISO Regen and tX-USBUltra. Lol, and I thought that I will simplify my chain, and now something new pops up Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, mozes said: Lol, and I thought that I will simplify my chain, and now something new pops up It never ends. Actually I have an ulterior motive also, I want to add the ISO Regen or tX USBUltra to my chain, but I have galvanic isolation in my DAC and really don't want to add it twice with the ISO Regen, thus I'm leaning towards the SOTM component, especially if an LPS-1 can power it. I need your impression, testing. LOL, but really I think your chain lends more credence to having both. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
mozes Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Just now, ElviaCaprice said: It never ends. Actually I have an ulterior motive also, I want to add the ISO Regen or tX USBUltra to my chain, but I have galvanic isolation in my DAC and really don't want to add it twice with the ISO Regen, thus I'm leaning towards the SOTM component. I need your impression, testing. LOL, but really I think your chain lends more credence to having both. I already have an LPS-1 so it is becoming more tempting Link to comment
mozes Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 A quick summary of my impressions on the intona which is more relevant here now. I disconnected my intona so my chain now looks like this: Nimitra>>tX USBultra>>Brooklyn I have to say that I hardly noticed any difference in sound, maybe a bit more dynamics but a notch brighter. I put it back but again hard to detect differences, if any it has to be subtle. I feel that it is redundant in my chain now, it doesn't give the big boost that I used to get from it like before. I removed it and soon will be going to the resale market. It seems that the tX is excellent on its own. I also tried the battery on the tX, but I didn't like it made it softer and lost microdynamics. Then I used a Y adapter to power both the Brooklyn and tX from the VR MINI, but I didn't like it at all, sounded harsh and musicality was lost. I also tried the 3rd option which is to swap the pwoer supplies to I put the JS-2 on the Brooklyn and the VR on the tX, I prefered the original setup as I felt some magic was lost. So now the best configuration to my ears is: NImitra (JS-2)>>tX (JS-2)>>Brooklyn (VR MINI) My learning is that it may not be a good idea to share the same power supply through Y adapters, but this is only in my system and keep in mind that the Y adapter is a cheapo from ebay not my OCC copper wire with Oyaide connectors. Link to comment
Fujak Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 19 hours ago, mozes said: I have to say that I hardly noticed any difference in sound, maybe a bit more dynamics but a notch brighter. I put it back but again hard to detect differences, if any it has to be subtle. That's also my impression in my chain (SOtM sMS-200 -> Intona Industrial -> AFI-USB (DDC) -> DAC). It's just that tonal difference (brighter vs. darker/warmer). My preference tends to the warmer sound. All other sonic parameters remains the same with/without Intona, so it stays in my chain. To return to topic: thank you for sharing your impressions regarding tx-USBultra. I think the new sMS-200 Ultra will be the synthesis of sMS-200 plus the tx-USBultra. Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, Fujak said: I think the new sMS-200 Ultra will be the synthesis of sMS-200 plus the tx-USBultra. Yes, same super clock board but a big difference in format capabilities, software etc., considering one can bypass the ethernet renderer, as long as there is good USB galvanic isolation. For those without galvanic isolation and even with, it will be interesting to compare all the different configurations with all these devices once released. Big question, still is, does USB streaming from server, no NAA/renderer, with correct configuration of components, equal or excel the need for a renderer for best SQ? (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
mozes Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, Fujak said: That's also my impression in my chain (SOtM sMS-200 -> Intona Industrial -> AFI-USB (DDC) -> DAC). It's just that tonal difference (brighter vs. darker/warmer). My preference tends to the warmer sound. All other sonic parameters remains the same with/without Intona, so it stays in my chain. To return to topic: thank you for sharing your impressions regarding tx-USBultra. I think the new sMS-200 Ultra will be the synthesis of sMS-200 plus the tx-USBultra. You just reminded me about the warmer sound with the intona, I also felt the same but again a subtle one Link to comment
mozes Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said: Big question, still is, does complete USB streaming from server now, with correct configuration of components, equal or excel the need for a renderer for best SQ? Exactly, that is also my key question. I am working on optimizing my USB chain straight to the DAC, but I also ask myself what If I also add an SMS-200ultra in front it Cornan 1 Link to comment
Cornan Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 52 minutes ago, mozes said: Exactly, that is also my key question. I am working on optimizing my USB chain straight to the DAC, but I also ask myself what If I also add an SMS-200ultra in front it I do understand your question, but still Nimitra is a truly great streamer. Personally I think it is time for you to seattle down and enjoy the ride for a little while. Some upgrades do not come easy. At a certain level you will have to keep calm and wait for it. I strongly believe that you have reached this point! Stay calm and and you will see it coming! ? Link to comment
mozes Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 Wise words @Cornan I also feel that I am almost there where I should stop and let my system relax and gel together. Cornan 1 Link to comment
Cornan Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 2 hours ago, mozes said: Wise words @Cornan I also feel that I am almost there where I should stop and let my system relax and gel together. You should! With your optimized setup with a truly dedicated mains separated into a separate ananolue and digital domains I have a hard time finding anything at all to complain about. Maybe just to add an unshielded USB path? I am not even sure that will improve sq in your perticular setup! ? You might be left with PSU upgrades only, but just minor ones. Damn you! ? Link to comment
mozes Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Cornan said: You should! With your optimized setup with a truly dedicated mains separated into a separate ananolue and digital domains I have a hard time finding anything at all to complain about. Maybe just to add an unshielded USB path? I am not even sure that will improve sq in your perticular setup! ? You might be left with PSU upgrades only, but just minor ones. Damn you! ? My new VR mini will be delivered soon to go with the tX and then the JS-2 will be dedicated to Nimitra only, and then I am done (of course the iso regen doesn't count ) Link to comment
sbilotta Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 4 hours ago, mozes said: My new VR mini will be delivered soon to go with the tX and then the JS-2 will be dedicated to Nimitra only, and then I am done (of course the iso regen doesn't count ) Do you feel that the VR Mini is better than the LPS-1 or JS-2, sound wise ? Could you (or others) rank the best LPSs from purely a sonic perspective ? it would be very useful, thank you. Link to comment
Popular Post mozes Posted April 15, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2017 I can't rank the 3 against each other, but this is what I have done. I have compared JS-2 and LPS-1 with the RUR and I preferred the LPS-1. I have also compared the VR Mini and JS-2 with the Brooklyn and I preferred the VR. This is system dependent and the order of each device in the chain also matters. For example, I didn't detect any difference between the VR and JS-2 with the Nimitra when I had the Intona and RUR in the chain. my chain at the time of those tests looked like this: Nimitra>intona>RUR>Brooklyn If I will have to pick one PSU, It will be the JS-2 as this is the most versatile and offers the best value for money (relative to many PSUs) the differences are very small, to my ears all of these PSUs are excellent and within 5% of each other, I hate to quantify but you get the idea. Superdad, Cornan and austinpop 3 Link to comment
Superdad Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, mozes said: I can't rank the 3 against each other, but this is what I have done. I have compared JS-2 and LPS-1 with the RUR and I preferred the LPS-1. I have also compared the VR Mini and JS-2 with the Brooklyn and I preferred the VR. This is system dependent and the order of each device in the chain also matters. For example, I didn't detect any difference between the VR and JS-2 with the Nimitra when I had the Intona and RUR in the chain. my chain at the time of those tests looked like this: Nimitra>intona>RUR>Brooklyn If I will have to pick one PSU, It will be the JS-2 as this is the most versatile and offers the best value for money (relative to many PSUs) the differences are very small, to my ears all of these PSUs are excellent and within 5% of each other, I hate to quantify but you get the idea. That all makes sense when you dig deep into it. Its largely about mapping and blocking the various leakage loops in your system. Only the LPS-1 and VR mini are able to 100% block those. And with the Intona (or our almost shipping ISO REGEN) in place, keeping the DAC isolated--both galvanically and leakage-wise--from the computer end will definitely be best. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
mozes Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Superdad said: That all makes sense when you dig deep into it. Its largely about mapping and blocking the various leakage loops in your system. Only the LPS-1 and VR mini are able to 100% block those. And with the Intona (or our almost shipping ISO REGEN) in place, keeping the DAC isolated--both galvanically and leakage-wise--from the computer end will definitely be best. Alex, waiting for it! Link to comment
greenleo Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 2017/4/15 at 3:53 AM, mozes said: Exactly, that is also my key question. I am working on optimizing my USB chain straight to the DAC, but I also ask myself what If I also add an SMS-200ultra in front it I have the fear that the SQ can be further improved. Link to comment
mozes Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, greenleo said: I have the fear that the SQ can be further improved. I can't imagine how it can be better. It already sounds majestic to my ears Link to comment
greenleo Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Only sky is the limit-Audiophile's dream. You never know☺ Link to comment
mozes Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 I am in the stratosphere then Link to comment
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