What are the best passive speakers with $20000-$30000 budget

[Silly goose]

16 minutes ago, peabreu said:

Raidho, cant go wrong with those. Most perfect highs ever and simply amazing...but I think they are Danish as my beloved Audiovectors.

No doubt they are very attractive speakers. I wonder how they compete cost vs performance wise vs the Salk's?

[peabreu]

Not familiar with the Salk's. Also in that price range if you have the space Avantgard horns are amazing.

[TubeLover]

23 hours ago, Silly goose said:

Yes I've been researching his work heavily over the last couple days. I'm extremely impressed with what I've read and seen pictures of. Seems like a genuine salt of the earth guy, running a solid business to me. 

You're dead on. Jim is a great guy. Your trip there will not be wasted. Even beyond the quality of the speakers, the cabinet work alone will astound you. No one offers anything like it.

 

JC 

[TubeLover]

10 hours ago, peabreu said:

Not familiar with the Salk's. Also in that price range if you have the space Avantgard horns are amazing.

You're right about the Avantgarde's being amazing, however, they are a very different animal. You noted the potential size issue (they are about the size of refrigerators). In addition, these are ultra high efficiency speakers that require very high quality SET, or other low voltage amplifiers (also a major expense). I'm not sure if the OP wishes to build an entirely new system simply due to specialty speakers?

 

JC

[Silly goose]

Thanks guys. I'm kinda a fan of slim floor-standers. Dual 7's or 8's for woofers, with an incredible mid range and tweeter. I'm not a big ported speaker fan either. I  prefer passive radiator, transmission line or sealed. Jim Salk seems to be on the same page in that department as well. 

[Ralf11]

if 'slim' is important, do not listen to the Maggies - you'll be torn apart with angst

[Silly goose]

8 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

if 'slim' is important, do not listen to the Maggies - you'll be torn apart with angst

I like the Maggie's but I was referring to the slim width, not depth. My listening room is just going to be a casual place where family and friends hang out. I'm not going to be using room treatment or anything besides an area rug and plants. All I want for audio gear in the room is 2 speakers and an Ipad for control. 

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Silly goose said:

Thanks guys. I'm kinda a fan of slim floor-standers. Dual 7's or 8's for woofers, with an incredible mid range and tweeter. I'm not a big ported speaker fan either. I  prefer passive radiator, transmission line or sealed. Jim Salk seems to be on the same page in that department as well. 

Your description sounds like PMC floorstanders. Passives and actives. Excellent speakers. Check them out.

[Silly goose]

6 hours ago, firedog said:

Your description sounds like PMC floorstanders. Passives and actives. Excellent speakers. Check them out.

Yeah I've heard PMC's and great speakers.

 

I think in order to get my dream speakers, it's going to need to be a custom build. I think Salk could probably build at least as good of active speakers as these other guys who want $40000, for much cheaper. I'm going to see if they can build me active speakers with Ravenna inputs. I'm thinking of a 4 way with all Accuton drivers, a very slim front baffle with dual 5" midwoofers, with diamond mid and tweeter. Then dual side firing 8" woofers in a sealed enclosure. 

[audio.bill]

3 hours ago, Silly goose said:

Yeah I've heard PMC's and great speakers.

 

I think in order to get my dream speakers, it's going to need to be a custom build. I think Salk could probably build at least as good of active speakers as these other guys who want $40000, for much cheaper. I'm going to see if they can build me active speakers with Ravenna inputs. I'm thinking of a 4 way with all Accuton drivers, a very slim front baffle with dual 5" midwoofers, with diamond mid and tweeter. Then dual side firing 8" woofers in a sealed enclosure. 

It seems like an easy decision from a financial perspective to select a set of top shelf drivers and crossover parts and have a solid cabinet built for them. Of course the latest software can be used to select the crossover points and slopes to integrate everything by the book. The result will cost a fraction of the price of the top speaker brands. However after having heard numerous examples of such designs over many years I've found it extremely rare to end up with a speaker that is truly competitive with the more costly target. There's a lot more than 'by the book' science that goes into loudspeaker design, most exceptional designs involve hundreds of hours of time in tedious listening sessions and endlessly tweaking design parameters to achieve their desired sound characteristics. There's a lot of art in speaker design beyond the science. An analogy would be comparing a meal that I might make with the same ingredients as a master chef, but my results would pale in comparison to what was achieved by a professional. You can certainly end up with a fine sounding speaker having one custom built for you as described, but it's highly unlikely you'll have one that reproduces the magic which some of the finest and best engineered speakers provide. Just my perspective based on many years of experience as an audiophile and an engineer, take it for what it's worth but I hope that some may find it helpful.

[Silly goose]

Building custom speakers is what Salk does. They are no stranger to building speaker cabinets properly. Accuton drivers are made to work together in perfect synergy. As long as the cabinets are built to the proper volume, have substantial rigidity, and the drivers are placed properly on a well designed baffle, the DSP crossover will do the rest. I understand back in the days of passive crossovers, it was very limiting for custom designs. This is because like you said it  can take months tuning the passive networks to get them just right. But with the latest active technology, You can continue tuning without any hardware change at all. This is how Dynaudio can make significant model upgrades with firmware alone. For me this system topology makes much more sense, and is much less limiting than the old way to do things. 

[Ralf11]

13 hours ago, Silly goose said:

I like the Maggie's but I was referring to the slim width, not depth. My listening room is just going to be a casual place where family and friends hang out. I'm not going to be using room treatment or anything besides an area rug and plants. All I want for audio gear in the room is 2 speakers and an Ipad for control. 

 

the angst will come from the high SQ banging against the very wide & tall panel sitting there like an omnious black monolith

 

[Ralf11]

OTOH, if you want your guests to feel like they are about to be eaten by a predatory alien monster, Wilson has something for you

[Silly goose]

Accuton even has their own DSP crossover system now:

 

http://www.accuton.com/en/products/elektronik/

 

Seeing how Accuton is so anal about perfection, I can't see it being too horrible. They also work together with Marten, so they know what their drivers sound like in the top passive systems. 

 

 

Sorry folks but I think it's time to face the facts that this is the future of high end audio. Not cable and box systems. 

[Silly goose]

More info on this Accuton DSP here:

 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/digital-signal-processors-dsp/accuton-dsp-192-4-111-module/

 

Wow looks awesome!

[beetlemania]

On 4/6/2017 at 11:02 PM, sedest said:

Vandersteen

Models in the OP's price range have powered subwoofers - does that qualify as "passive"?

 

I prefer Vandersteen over Wilson. Wilson's are great but I think they are a bit colored (mid-bass bump) and are a poor value relative to others, especially Vandersteen. I have mixed feelings about the powered subwoofers on the pricier Vandersteens but have to admit the 7s are among the very best speakers I've heard at any price. At a lower price point, I could happily live with the fully-passive Treo CTs and never look back.

 

The Thiel 3.7 was a great speaker but has sadly been discontinued. I've lost track of the Avalon line-up but they probably have something worth considering in this price category.

 

The OP specified US-built but I would consider Vivid in this price category.

 

 

[semente]

1 hour ago, Silly goose said:

Accuton even has their own DSP crossover system now:

 

http://www.accuton.com/en/products/elektronik/

 

Seeing how Accuton is so anal about perfection, I can't see it being too horrible. They also work together with Marten, so they know what their drivers sound like in the top passive systems. 

 

 

Sorry folks but I think it's time to face the facts that this is the future of high end audio. Not cable and box systems. 

 

The Accuton midrange produces some nasty breakup resonances (as all "hard" cones do) and should be used with care, not with a first-order crossover à la Marten:

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/marten-coltrane-3-loudspeaker-measurements

 

http://www.accuton.com/en/products/speakersystem/ceramic-driver/c168-6-990-neu-erstellen/

[Silly goose]

6 minutes ago, semente said:

 

The Accuton midrange produces some nasty breakup resonances (as all "hard" cones do) and should be used with care, not with a first-order crossover à la Marten:

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/marten-coltrane-3-loudspeaker-measurements

 

http://www.accuton.com/en/products/speakersystem/ceramic-driver/c168-6-990-neu-erstellen/

That won't be a problem with advanced DSP. All of that can be handled with perfect phase response, and nothing extra in the signal path. 

[speavler]

Von Schweikert Audio. 

[Silly goose]

8 minutes ago, speavler said:

Von Schweikert Audio. 

Seems like only their lines targeted at peasant's are within this price range these days. For the VR series, $45000 gets you a floorstander with budget drivers. $60000 to start if you want Accuton's. That's one company who know's their market. 

[speavler]

8 minutes ago, Silly goose said:

Seems like only their lines targeted at peasant's are within this price range these days. For the VR series, $45000 gets you a floorstander with budget drivers. $60000 to start if you want Accuton's. 

 

yes they went ultra high-end some years ago.  I used to own a pair of their VR-4.5's.  But...made in America!  Other American-made speaker companies I have some experience with are Zu Audio, Tekton Design, and Spatial Audio.  These are more value-based offerings, though. 

[Silly goose]

Just now, speavler said:

 

yes they went ultra high-end some years ago.  I used to own a pair of their VR-4.5's.  But...made in America!  Other American-made speaker companies I have some experience with are Zu Audio, Tekton Design, and Spatial Audio.  These are more value-based offerings, though. 

The cabinets may be. But $45000 gets you Chinese drivers that cost under $800 for the entire lot at retail pricing! Wholesale probably half that. 

 

https://www.vonschweikert.com/vr-44-aktive

[davide256]

On 4/6/2017 at 7:00 PM, Silly goose said:

I'm looking to audition a pile of top full range floor-standing speakers between the $20000-$30000 price range. They must be made in the USA. Any suggestions?

Yes... don't expect them to be amp independent for sound quality unless you also plan on auditioning with amps that cost more than the speaker.

[Ralf11]

how much do the Sound Labs cost?

 

and I'd definitely try out a set of Maggie 20's to see how they stack up...

[TubeLover]

On 4/11/2017 at 1:26 AM, Ralf11 said:

if 'slim' is important, do not listen to the Maggies - you'll be torn apart with angst

I know I was when they wouldn't work in my room! 

 

JC