Lindemann and Microrendu question

[MichaelHiFi]

I bought the Lindemann and really loving what I'm hearing. It's Music Server interface is slow. I really wish to use Roon with this music player. So I'm thinking of getting the Microrendu.

 

My concern is that the MB DSD works best as an upsampler to DSD. They have no experience using the Microrendu. 

 

Might there be problems sending upsampled DSD to the Musicbook which already upsamples DSD? Maybe I use a different stream? Is it even worth getting the Microrendu given the excellent quality of the Musicbook we are experiencing other than of course, lack of Roon?

 

Also, I have an old Power Supply built by Welborne Labs called the Sonore  It's an 8 volt supply. Any reason why I should buy the iFi? I have a high end PS on the shelf but its 12volts. May look into changing voltage but may not be that easy.

 

Sorry I posted this on another area here that I noted was old. 

[Cebolla]

My understanding is that LindeMann Musicbook 20 & 25 are UPnP supporting network audio file renderers (aka streamers), so their Music Server sources are UPnP/DLNA media servers. If the slow 'interface' you are referring to is the Musicbook's own iOS or Android controller app, do you realise that as a UPnP renderer, you can use any UPnP controller app with the Musicbook to network stream your music files from the Music Server? So you don't have to use the Musicbook controller app with the Musicbook to access and play the music files from Music Server!

 

What network device (eg computer, NAS, etc) are your music files stored on?

Do you know what UPnP/DLNA media server you are using as the Music Server on that network device to provide the music files for the Musicbook?

What exactly is the reason for you wanting to use Roon, ie, is it more than just the Musicbook controller app being slow?

[mevdinc]

I have also recently purchased LindeMann Musicbook 20 DSD and it really is a little box of tricks with excellent sound, preamp and network streamer.
I agree their iOS/Android app is very poor in comparison to the excellent capability of the DAC.

I'm using my Musicbook via its USB connection with my MacMini running Audirvana + V3.0 and I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting.
I haven't really done a serious comparison between LindeMann doing the upsampling vs sending upsampled DSD to the DAC but it works well both ways.
You can also turn the upsampling on the DAC on and off and also select between different rates.


As @cabolla pointed out one can always use 3rd party UPnP controller app to stream network music.

[MichaelHiFi]

On 4/4/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cebolla said:

What network device (eg computer, NAS, etc) are your music files stored on?

I have a Synology 216j attached to the local network switch.

 

On 4/4/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cebolla said:

Do you know what UPnP/DLNA media server you are using as the Music Server on that network device to provide the music files for the

I believe I'm using Lindemann's native server, but I can run minimserver or Lumin server as well. The bottleneck I experienced was with crappy network cables. I ran some tested cables and brought home a $10K Fluke network cable tester. Most of my cables failed the test. Now the app is fast.

 

On 4/4/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cebolla said:

What exactly is the reason for you wanting to use Roon, ie, is it more than just the Musicbook controller app being slow?

I'm hopeful that Roon will be my go to app into music. I'm tired of learning other device apps, most are finicky, most are not intuitive (to me anyway). Don't even get me started on LiTunes.

 

2 hours ago, mevdinc said:

I have also recently purchased LindeMann Musicbook 20 DSD and it really is a little box of tricks with excellent sound, preamp and network streamer.
I agree their iOS/Android app is very poor in comparison to the excellent capability of the DAC.

I'm using my Musicbook via its USB connection with my MacMini running Audirvana + V3.0 and I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting.
I haven't really done a serious comparison between LindeMann doing the upsampling vs sending upsampled DSD to the DAC but it works well both ways.
You can also turn the upsampling on the DAC on and off and also select between different rates.


As @cabolla pointed out one can always use 3rd party UPnP controller app to stream network music.

 

Last night I sat with my dealer listening to the Musicbook. It's still a bit raw with around 100 hours on it and too, I have some newly installed caps in my speakers that are similar in burn-in time.  Comparing Lindemann server vs Sonic Transport/Microrendu we found the following. 

 

The Musicbook by itself is simply amazing. I mean I can't be happier with the sound of this unit. Even though the music server source isn't its best source it's just so damn good one would not notice or feel the need to switch sources due to sound quality. The soundstage is pretty amazing, the amount of information it retrieves is startling and what it does even with old recordings is.. don't have words. It just figures out the song and portrays it in not just an audiophile sense, but in a musical sense, if that means anything to anyone. 

Then I added the ST/MU combo. 9 volt supply on the microrendu and stock supply on the Sonic Transporter (waiting on a connector end for my big a$$ 12V power supply. I set the streamer to upsample DSD. (You know, I need to try it as cabolla pointed out). That brought the soundstage forward on wider beyond the width of the speakers. It also brought a great deal more air to the recordings. The amount of depth too increased where it was already good, it reached nearly the level of whn we had a pair of Gradient Revolution speakers, the imaging champions of the planet. It sounded a bit cooler in tone although the vocals didn't seem to suffer from it. Going back and forth one could live easily with or without the microrendu/transporter combo but, you would't have Roon and, to be honest, I haven't tested all the capabilities of this newly acquired combo. I'll just say the at this point FWIW, The Lindemann by itself sound more analog and speaking of analog, my VPI Scoutmaster/Dynavector XX2 going through Rogue Audio Ares using the Lindemann as a volume control? Again, the Lindemann shows its pedigree. I was amazed at how much better my vinyl setup sounded. Formerly, it used an Usher preamp, which was extremely neutral to the source and the Emotiva XMC-1. The Lindemann was so many levels better. 

 

Sorry, getting carried away. Thanks for your responses, I really appreciate it.

 

 

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, MichaelHiFi said:

I have a Synology 216j attached to the local network switch.

 

I believe I'm using Lindemann's native server, but I can run minimserver or Lumin server as well. The bottleneck I experienced was with crappy network cables.

 

Ok, I think I know what you mean by the Lindemann's "native server", the built-in UPnP network audio file player (aka renderer aka streamer). The Lindemann's network player requires a UPnP/DLNA media server to supply it with music files on the network. The Lindemann itself doesn't have a UPnP/DLNA media server, so its network player will need to obtain the music files from one on a networked device. The UPnP/DLNA media server software usually runs on the same network device that contains the music files it is supplying, eg, a computer or a NAS.

 

The Synology NAS you are using has a default UPnP/DLNA media server that comes with its DiskStation Manager software. This is likely to be the UPnP/DLNA media server you are using to supply the music files to the Lindemann from the Synology NAS, if you are not using a third party UPnP/DLNA media server on the NAS (such as the MinimServer UPnP media server you mentioned).

 

Not sure what you mean by "Lumin server". There's no such thing as a Lumin UPnP/DLNA media server. There are of course the Lumin network audio player devices (so devices similar to the Lindemann) or the Lumin controller iOS & Android apps - were you referring to one of these?

[Cebolla]

3 hours ago, MichaelHiFi said:

Last night I sat with my dealer listening to the Musicbook. It's still a bit raw with around 100 hours on it and too, I have some newly installed caps in my speakers that are similar in burn-in time.  Comparing Lindemann server vs Sonic Transport/Microrendu we found the following. 

 

The Musicbook by itself is simply amazing. I mean I can't be happier with the sound of this unit. Even though the music server source isn't its best source it's just so damn good one would not notice or feel the need to switch sources due to sound quality. The soundstage is pretty amazing, the amount of information it retrieves is startling and what it does even with old recordings is.. don't have words. It just figures out the song and portrays it in not just an audiophile sense, but in a musical sense, if that means anything to anyone. 

Then I added the ST/MU combo. 9 volt supply on the microrendu and stock supply on the Sonic Transporter (waiting on a connector end for my big a$$ 12V power supply. I set the streamer to upsample DSD. (You know, I need to try it as cabolla pointed out). That brought the soundstage forward on wider beyond the width of the speakers. It also brought a great deal more air to the recordings. The amount of depth too increased where it was already good, it reached nearly the level of whn we had a pair of Gradient Revolution speakers, the imaging champions of the planet. It sounded a bit cooler in tone although the vocals didn't seem to suffer from it. Going back and forth one could live easily with or without the microrendu/transporter combo but, you would't have Roon and, to be honest, I haven't tested all the capabilities of this newly acquired combo. I'll just say the at this point FWIW, The Lindemann by itself sound more analog and speaking of analog, my VPI Scoutmaster/Dynavector XX2 going through Rogue Audio Ares using the Lindemann as a volume control? Again, the Lindemann shows its pedigree. I was amazed at how much better my vinyl setup sounded. Formerly, it used an Usher preamp, which was extremely neutral to the source and the Emotiva XMC-1. The Lindemann was so many levels better. 

 

Sorry, getting carried away. Thanks for your responses, I really appreciate it.

In your Roon setup, the digital audio signal originates at the Sonic Transporter by the Roon Server decoding and playing the music files, is carried by the network to the microRendu with its Roon EndPoint and finally arrives at the Lindemann being used as a USB DAC.

 

Contrast this with the Lindemann being used as a network audio file player, where all the decoding & playing of the music files occurs inside the Lindemann itself and the resulting digital audio signal output arrives directly at its internally connected DAC, ie, via the shortest possible route (with no involvement of the network, USB audio and any associated devices & software). With the Lindeman as a network player, the network is being used to supply the Lindemann with music files (from the UPnP/DLNA media server), not the digital audio signal.

[MichaelHiFi]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Most helpful.

 

So the files residing in the NAS get outputted either to the Lindemann directly which performs all of the decoding or, The Transporter takes the NAS files using the Roon brain which can decode files while add whatever flavor app one wishes to further process the file, then to the Microrendu which I believe reclocks the data and scrubs the power which is why I also believe why a quality external power supply is so beneficial. The audio file journey continues with it's new makeover to the Lindemann via network cable. If I got this right, this is where it gets interesting. 

 

The Lindemann has all the decoding solutions built-in. I would have not been surprised to hear little difference between the Lindemann/NAS vs the Microrendu except for Lindemann's USB Audio source allowing for higher DSD sampling. But there was a significant difference. And that difference maybe in the way I'm decoding the files.

 

Having the MR perform the decoding vs the Lindemann. That will be the first thing I'll try when I get home. I'm guessing I just output PCM to the Lindemann. I think in all my fiddling around with the settings I may be sending DSD through DoP from the MR. 

 

Lindemann audio has no knowledge regarding the use of the MR/Transporter feeding their Musicbook. So I thought I would be the beta tester on this setup. but I need to get this right. 

 

It would be cool to get the HQplayer involved as I'd like to room correct the lower registers of my woofers. 

 

For as long as I'd been doing computer audio, I'm amazed at what I still don't know. 

[MichaelHiFi]

I replaced another old network cable to CAT7. Unfortunately, I failed to reconnect to the Lindemann. I now realize that the first connection concerning the Microrendu/Transporter to Lindemann was pure luck. The day after, yesterday, I'd spent 1.5 hours with my IT buddy attempting to reconnect and only seemed to accidently reconnect after we'd given up. Today, I'm into now another 1.5 hours of rebooting, settings, more reboots, disconnecting connecting, prayers and again failed to gain a handshake.

 

Maybe I'll sleep on it but it shouldn't be this difficult. I'd rather just listen to music...