What server to choose?! Any experience?

[Stijngv]

Hello, I am going to buy a music server in the near future but can't decide between 2 options.

Either way it's going to be a Aurender N100H or a Innuos Zenith.

Does anybody here have experience soundwise with these systems?

 

Purely on design and parts I would go for the Aurender because the Innuos uses of the shelve parts like for example the motherboard that only costs 160 dollars on Amazon. "low noise usb" output is the same output that comes factory installed on the motherboard, which I find weird. (because sound quality is the most important here).

 

Only advantage on paper is that Innuos supports Roon, but I can adapt to the "Aurender way".

 

So share me your real world experiences!

Oh yes btw I can't audition these devices in my country, so don't tell me to go and audition them lol.

 

thanks!

[Bones13]

 

You can add the lifetime Roon cost, microRendu, and the i5 sonic transporter, and still be cheaper.

 

I am a Roon devotee, so take my comments with a grain of salt. Those 2 turnkey devices look great, the Aurender units all review well, look great, and seem to be solid. Also has music storage included. The Innuos OS looks good, with several streaming possibilities, and promising Roon integration. An addition for that unit is the ripping capacity via the included CD drive.

 

Both are currently only controlled with iPad or phone.

 

The sonictransporter will need music storage - either a NAS, USB drive, or pay extra for internal storage.

[chauphuong]

On 3/18/2017 at 6:51 AM, Stijngv said:

Hello, I am going to buy a music server in the near future but can't decide between 2 options.

Either way it's going to be a Aurender N100H or a Innuos Zenith.

Does anybody here have experience soundwise with these systems?

 

Purely on design and parts I would go for the Aurender because the Innuos uses of the shelve parts like for example the motherboard that only costs 160 dollars on Amazon. "low noise usb" output is the same output that comes factory installed on the motherboard, which I find weird. (because sound quality is the most important here).

 

Only advantage on paper is that Innuos supports Roon, but I can adapt to the "Aurender way".

 

So share me your real world experiences!

Oh yes btw I can't audition these devices in my country, so don't tell me to go and audition them lol.

 

thanks!

Could you please share the name of the mentioned 160$ motherboard?

[pam1975]

I can recommend Nimitra, amazing value for money.

 

I suggest you speak to Innuos first re Zenith. They claim they will be roonready, but I spoke to them directly and that's not the case anymore which is very confusing because on the site it says otherwise. Probably a really nice device, but didn't in the end respond to my needs. 

[nvitorino]

On 22/03/2017 at 7:37 AM, pam1975 said:

I can recommend Nimitra, amazing value for money.

 

I suggest you speak to Innuos first re Zenith. They claim they will be roonready, but I spoke to them directly and that's not the case anymore which is very confusing because on the site it says otherwise. Probably a really nice device, but didn't in the end respond to my needs. 

 

Hi pam1975,

 

I'm the R&D Director for Innuos. Just jumping in to clarify that our Zen Mk.II series will be integrating Roon Core as of innuOS version 1.2 which will be released within 2 weeks. This means you can use the Zen mk.II server as both a Roon Server and as a Player when connecting a DAC through USB. We're in touch with Roon to be listed in the Partners section so that should be updated soon.

 

I don't know who you contacted within Innuos but there is some confusion about what Roon-Ready means. Roon-Ready is a partner program for network players (aka streamers). They integrate just Roon Bridge to act as Roon Player devices. Our system is a Roon Core server, meaning it acts as both a server and a player (connecting to a USB DAC). This is branded as a Roon Core Server. So perhaps the (confusing) message you got about Innuos not being "Roon-Ready" is because were in fact a Roon Core Server device.

 

You can find the information about the Roon Partner programs here.

 

Nuno

[nvitorino]

On 17/03/2017 at 11:51 PM, Stijngv said:

Hello, I am going to buy a music server in the near future but can't decide between 2 options.

Either way it's going to be a Aurender N100H or a Innuos Zenith.

Does anybody here have experience soundwise with these systems?

 

Purely on design and parts I would go for the Aurender because the Innuos uses of the shelve parts like for example the motherboard that only costs 160 dollars on Amazon. "low noise usb" output is the same output that comes factory installed on the motherboard, which I find weird. (because sound quality is the most important here).

 

Only advantage on paper is that Innuos supports Roon, but I can adapt to the "Aurender way".

 

So share me your real world experiences!

Oh yes btw I can't audition these devices in my country, so don't tell me to go and audition them lol.

 

thanks!

Hi,

 

Just to clarify a couple of things. Without going into too much detail, let me just tell that how you power the different parts of the system, how you configure the firmware and how you configure the kernel of the system makes a huge difference in sound quality. These things make or break your sound. We measured through the oscilloscope dozens of USB outputs from all kinds of boards. The results depend on the combination of all of the things above, not just the hardware per se. It's all about synergy.

 

You can PM me for details on where you live and eventually a dealer you work with so we can potentially get them a Zenith for you to audition. You do have to listen first to make an informed decision.

 

Nuno

[pam1975]

41 minutes ago, nvitorino said:

 

Hi pam1975,

 

I'm the R&D Director for Innuos. Just jumping in to clarify that our Zen Mk.II series will be integrating Roon Core as of innuOS version 1.2 which will be released within 2 weeks. This means you can use the Zen mk.II server as both a Roon Server and as a Player when connecting a DAC through USB. We're in touch with Roon to be listed in the Partners section so that should be updated soon.

 

I don't know who you contacted within Innuos but there is some confusion about what Roon-Ready means. Roon-Ready is a partner program for network players (aka streamers). They integrate just Roon Bridge to act as Roon Player devices. Our system is a Roon Core server, meaning it acts as both a server and a player (connecting to a USB DAC). This is branded as a Roon Core Server. So perhaps the (confusing) message you got about Innuos not being "Roon-Ready" is because were in fact a Roon Core Server device.

 

You can find the information about the Roon Partner programs here.

 

Nuno

thanks for clarifying, a pity that I didn't get the right info then. Wish you lots of success with the Zenith!

[nvitorino]

No problem. It's our bad too as we were mentioning "Roon-Ready Player" on our website... It should read "Roon Player" instead so not to get confused with the Roon-Ready Partner program. This has now been updated - thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

Nuno

[Indydan]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎23 at 5:44 AM, nvitorino said:

 

Hi pam1975,

 

I'm the R&D Director for Innuos. Just jumping in to clarify that our Zen Mk.II series will be integrating Roon Core as of innuOS version 1.2 which will be released within 2 weeks. This means you can use the Zen mk.II server as both a Roon Server and as a Player when connecting a DAC through USB. We're in touch with Roon to be listed in the Partners section so that should be updated soon.

 

I don't know who you contacted within Innuos but there is some confusion about what Roon-Ready means. Roon-Ready is a partner program for network players (aka streamers). They integrate just Roon Bridge to act as Roon Player devices. Our system is a Roon Core server, meaning it acts as both a server and a player (connecting to a USB DAC). This is branded as a Roon Core Server. So perhaps the (confusing) message you got about Innuos not being "Roon-Ready" is because were in fact a Roon Core Server device.

 

You can find the information about the Roon Partner programs here.

 

Nuno

 

Hello. I am interested in buying the Zen Mini MKII. It has 2GB RAM memory. Roon suggests at least 4 GB RAM for computers. Will the Mini still run Roon properly? Maybe it is different for computers and dedicated machines?

 

I use a 2014 Mac Mini with the 1,4 GHZ processor and 4GB RAM. It is dedicated to only playing music. Can I expect better sound quality with the Zen Mini? The Mac is used with a USB straight into the DAC. The Zen MIni would be used the same way.

[nvitorino]

16 hours ago, Indydan said:

 

Hello. I am interested in buying the Zen Mini MKII. It has 2GB RAM memory. Roon suggests at least 4 GB RAM for computers. Will the Mini still run Roon properly? Maybe it is different for computers and dedicated machines?

 

I use a 2014 Mac Mini with the 1,4 GHZ processor and 4GB RAM. It is dedicated to only playing music. Can I expect better sound quality with the Zen Mini? The Mac is used with a USB straight into the DAC. The Zen MIni would be used the same way.

 

Hi Indydan,

 

We've discussed technical requirements with Roon and 2Gb will be fine for Roon. Of course, more memory will likely make things a bit speedier, particularly when accessing the database. We don't feel it compromises a good Roon experience though.

 

With regards to sound quality, that's very relative and only you can really be the judge of that. All we can say is that our dealers have been very impressed with the Mini when compared to their existing computer-based sources. If you have a dealer nearby, you should be able to test at home with your system.

 

Nuno

[ctsooner]

Why aren't you considering the Melco server?  Not saying you would like it more, but it should be in this discussion. There will be a new one coming out soon I believe.  I personally like it better than the N100 as it's got better detail and a better sound stage. Don't know about the Zenith.  Lot's of talk on the boards, but haven't seen it for sale in the US yet.   

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, ctsooner said:

Why aren't you considering the Melco server?  Not saying you would like it more, but it should be in this discussion. There will be a new one coming out soon I believe.  I personally like it better than the N100 as it's got better detail and a better sound stage. Don't know about the Zenith.  Lot's of talk on the boards, but haven't seen it for sale in the US yet.   

 

I was considering the Melco N1/A. But, I would prefer to have a half width component like the Zen Mini ( I am also looking at the Aurender N100H and the Naim Uniti Core). 

 

I had a good discussion with a dealer yesterday who sells both Innuos and Melco servers (as well as a few others, Naim, Antipodes, etc). He prefers the Zen Mini over the Melco N1/A  for sound quality and ease of use. 

 

It is his opinion that some internet reviews of music servers, exaggerate the sound quality improvements over a dedicated Mac Mini. He says the Innuos products (especially the Zen Mini) really surprised him with their sound quality, especially for the price. That it beats a Mac Mini. He sells many more expensive servers, so he could easily have steered me towards a more expensive one. 

 

The Zen Mini would be perfect for me and the price is more than reasonable. It is 1700$ with 2TB of storage, compared to 3650$ for the Aurender N100H, 3800$ for the Naim Uniti Core, and 3300$ for the version 2 of the Melco N1/A (those are all canadian prices). 

 

I currently have a 2014 Mac Mini 1.4 GHZ. I have the Intona industrial filter between it and the DAC. I also use it with a Shunyata Venom Digital power cord. Both the Shunyata power cord and Intona significantly improved the Mac Mini. So my Mac Mini sounds better than a stock Mac Mini.

 

I want to get a server, because I don't want to rely on Apple for my music server forever (Mac Mini has not been updated in 2.5 years, certain DACs don't work with the new Sierra OS and Apple does not seem to care). The thing is, if I am going to spend money on a server, I want at least as good sound quality, but preferably better. 

[audioblazer]

Used to own Aurender w20 . Sold it . Bought Nimitra . For the price & the support , it's fantastic . Just bought nikola psu to compare with HDplex 

[ctsooner]

If a Mac Mini is done correctly, it will be as good or better than any of the servers being discussed and that include the N10 and Antipodes DX latest gen.  I have one that Steve Nugent built with a Paul Hynes LPS and a bunch of other changes. I don't worry about any upgrades as it's optimized for audio only. Bluetooth is on, but that's about it.  I use Amarra and it's the older version.  Sounds better to me than the newer one.

 

As for SQ of the ones you mention, personally there are only a couple of reviewers who I like and go with IRT recommendations.  I know they have a similar ear to mine as I either know them or they have the same components that I do.  As long as you trust your dealer then that's what matter most.

 

I personally like the Melco better than the N100 for many reasons, but mostly it has much more detail and slam.  It presents what's recorded.  I may get one just to use as the NAS only.  For me, that's flexibility that no one ever talks about.  If you ever want a better server in years to come, you can just keep the Melco as a NAS only device on the network.  It also has ethernet connections.  Aurender doesn't offer that.  

 

Nuno, please get in touch with me.  Thanks.

[ctsooner]

IRT the Zenith MKII XL, can you hook it up to the DAC via ethernet and are they galvanically isolated?  Also, is the MQA only the first unfold or does it unfold it all?  Does it connect to an online ripping software like dbPoweramp?  Thanks.

[pam1975]

7 hours ago, audioblazer said:

Used to own Aurender w20 . Sold it . Bought Nimitra . For the price & the support , it's fantastic . Just bought nikola psu to compare with HDplex 

I agree. Nimitra is fantastic value for money.

[pam1975]

19 hours ago, ctsooner said:

If a Mac Mini is done correctly, it will be as good or better than any of the servers being discussed and that include the N10 and Antipodes DX latest gen.  I have one that Steve Nugent built with a Paul Hynes LPS and a bunch of other changes. I don't worry about any upgrades as it's optimized for audio only. Bluetooth is on, but that's about it.  I use Amarra and it's the older version.  Sounds better to me than the newer one.

 

As for SQ of the ones you mention, personally there are only a couple of reviewers who I like and go with IRT recommendations.  I know they have a similar ear to mine as I either know them or they have the same components that I do.  As long as you trust your dealer then that's what matter most.

 

I personally like the Melco better than the N100 for many reasons, but mostly it has much more detail and slam.  It presents what's recorded.  I may get one just to use as the NAS only.  For me, that's flexibility that no one ever talks about.  If you ever want a better server in years to come, you can just keep the Melco as a NAS only device on the network.  It also has ethernet connections.  Aurender doesn't offer that.  

 

Nuno, please get in touch with me.  Thanks.

@ctsoonerI was fascinated by this post, never though a mac mini could be optimized to be on par with a N10 or Antipodes DX!!!

[Ralf11]

5 hours ago, pam1975 said:

@ctsoonerI was fascinated by this post, never though a mac mini could be optimized to be on par with a N10 or Antipodes DX!!!

 

All you need to do is to deliver all the bits to the DAC correctly (including timing).  I f anyone thinks otherwise, I'd like ot hear what they think is going on.

[Indydan]

23 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

All you need to do is to deliver all the bits to the DAC correctly (including timing).  I f anyone thinks otherwise, I'd like ot hear what they think is going on.

Are you saying "bits are bits"? Power supply noise does not matter? A cheap computer clock can send a perfectly timed flow of bits, as good as a quality clock?

 

I am not looking to start a fight. But, how can devices like the Regen and Intona improve the sound from a computer, but a dedicated music server with quality components cannot?

[nvitorino]

On 01/04/2017 at 7:29 PM, ctsooner said:

IRT the Zenith MKII XL, can you hook it up to the DAC via ethernet and are they galvanically isolated?  Also, is the MQA only the first unfold or does it unfold it all?  Does it connect to an online ripping software like dbPoweramp?  Thanks.

DACs are usually connected via USB or SPDIF (Optical/Coaxial) although the Zenith only uses an USB output. In most cases (the NADAC is a notable exception) you don't connect via ethernet to a DAC, you connect via ethernet to a streamer which tipically has an UPnP renderer (aka the software that decodes and plays music) built-in and can use the Zenith as the UPnP Server. The Zenith does have a dedicated streamer port with an isolation transformer on each ethernet pair (there are 4 pairs of cables on an ethernet connection).

 

With regards to MQA, the Zenith does not decode MQA through the software player. It requires a MQA-compatible DAC to decode it otherwise it will play MQA at CD-Quality.

 

dbPoweramp is a ripping software that accesses a number of online databases. The Zenith uses OneMusicAPI that aggregates data from a number of databases such a Discogs, MusicBrainz, FreeDB and Wikipedia.

 

Nuno

[Ralf11]

On 4/2/2017 at 11:41 AM, Indydan said:

Are you saying "bits are bits"? Power supply noise does not matter? A cheap computer clock can send a perfectly timed flow of bits, as good as a quality clock?

 

I am not looking to start a fight. But, how can devices like the Regen and Intona improve the sound from a computer, but a dedicated music server with quality components cannot?

 

don't you think those things will affect delivering all the bits to the DAC correctly (including timing)??

[ctsooner]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:12 AM, pam1975 said:

@ctsoonerI was fascinated by this post, never though a mac mini could be optimized to be on par with a N10 or Antipodes DX!!!

It can if done correctly.  Steve Nugent basically ripped it down and built it up.  The Paul Hynes LPS is by far the quietest and best LPS I've ever heard.  Steve only has a few programs running and I don't have it hooked up to the net, although I could if I wanted to.

 

As for connecting the server via ethernet instead of USB, many DAC's are now made this way as many feel it's a better connection as it asks for new packets if they are sent incorrectly, which USB can't (I'm not a tech and may not have said that the right way, but techs know what I'm saying I'm sure).  Yes, my Mac Mini is as good as the DX or the N10.  It's close, but it's better.  The biggest reason I tend to lean towards getting a Melco is that I can use it's ethernet output directly into the Ayre or put it on the net and use it as a NAS.  

 

I am loving the flexibility of the Ayre DAC because it has a streamer built into it and it's as good a streamer as I've heard so far.  It's the clock in the DAC that puts it in the top tier of DACs I auditioned before purchase.  It's not like I wasn't out listening to the DAVE, DCS, Trinity, Brinkmann and so many others.  

 

Yes Pam, a properly built Mac Mini can and in my case does sound THAT good.  He even put a decent size SSD in (one that is optimized for sound quality.  I'd have to ask him which one he used as I forgot).  I know that he also rebuilt the USB port on port 2 to be of the highest quality.  The other ports are the stock usb ports and don't sound nearly as good.

[PeterG]

On 4/1/2017 at 12:40 AM, Indydan said:

I was considering the Melco N1/A. But, I would prefer to have a half width component like the Zen Mini ( I am also looking at the Aurender N100H and the Naim Uniti Core). 

 

 

ID--have you made a decision or done a real comparison yet?  My Mac Mini is fading and I'm considering both the Aurender and Naim.  Please advise.  Thanks!

[Indydan]

Edit

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, PeterG said:

 

ID--have you made a decision or done a real comparison yet?  My Mac Mini is fading and I'm considering both the Aurender and Naim.  Please advise.  Thanks!

I went in a different direction. I bought a Naim ND5 XS network player-streamer with built in DAC. I kept my Mac Mini as a network music store only.

 

I had done a good amount of research before purchasing the Naim ND5 XS though (but no listening tests). I would not buy the Naim Uniti core at this moment. It seems it took a while for Naim to get it properly sorted with firmware upgrades. The Aurender N100H has been around longer and is a well sorted machine that performs well. The dealer who sells both both Naim and Aurender said they are similar, and there is no clear cut winner for sound quality.

 

But, the Innuous Zen MIni seems to be the best buy. It is less than half the price of the Aurender and Naim Uniti Core, and is almost as good. I was basically told by a dealer who sells both the Naim Uniti Core and Zen Mini, that it was not worth paying more and the Zen Mini was a great machine.

 

If money was no object, I would buy the Aurender. If I had a smaller budget, I would happily have bought the Zen Mini.