JackAC Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Hi there, Owning MSB Analog DAC with Quad USB Input. Able to play DSD's in native mode and DoP as well ( 64, 128, 256). I upgraded my foobar on PC , Win 8.1 with last versions of plug-ins , especialy foo_input_SACD 1.05. It seams it lost it's ability to play DSD in native mode, or I just don't know how to set-up. This is translated in the fact that DSD 256 is not posible to be reproduced, due to the fact that in DoP you need 700k samplerate, thing not posible with AD. "Downgrade-ing" to foo_input_SACD 0.73, DSD 256 is again available , due to native mode of palying DSD's available. Does anybody know what's happening? With the new versions of FOOBAR, does it lost it's ability to play DSD's in native mode or I don't know how to set-up? If there's a set-up, what is it? Please help! Best regards, JacKAC P.S. Secondary question, do you consider better alternatives than foobar, of course, by sonical point of view. I'm accustomed with Foobar, I ran all bit-perfect tests succesfully, I'm satisfied about the sound, I'dd not cahnge it if there wouldn't be a significant step over regarding performance..... Link to comment
audiventory Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 If old version of plugin work properly, why you don't want to use it? AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
JackAC Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 If old version of plugin work properly, why you don't want to use it? Well, I thought that the upgrades ( new versions ) are not for nothing, they should be translated in a (performance) gain....Am I wrong? Link to comment
Synfreak Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yepp ... I also use an older version of the "foo_input_SACD" plugin because of that. No problems so far, so "don't change a running system" ;-) Esoterc SA-60 / Foobar2000 -> Mytek Stereo 192 DSD / Audio-GD NFB 28.38 -> MEG RL922K / AKG K500 / AKG K1000 / Audioquest Nighthawk / OPPO PM-2 / Sennheiser HD800 / Sennheiser Surrounder / Sony MA900 / STAX SR-303+SRM-323II Link to comment
audiventory Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Update may fix old bugs and create new ones Unfortunatelly, it is not so rare, because impossibly give 100% warranty of absence of bugs, despite wide and deep tests. In any software kind. Even in space rocket software may be bugs. If you, as end user have issues with new version, but havn't issues with old one, better way use the old version until next release. Also you may try ask tech support, if it provided. Our enterprise, as example, prefer get feedback (especially) about bugs as faster as possibly (from users of any versions including free). I suppose, other projects also prefer get bug report than don't know about it, as rule. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
orangem Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 For same reason, I am still using foo_input_sacd 0.8.4, but together with the latest version ASIO Proxy 0.9.4. Link to comment
JavierS Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 For those wanting to fiddle a bit and have the best of both families (0.9.x and 1.0.x): https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/ Link to comment
JackAC Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thank you for your advices. It seams that it still doesn't work (DSD256 native) , in spite of following the instructions from the previous link.I don't understand clear, but there is some proces like DSD->DoP->DSD, and somwhere the need of 700k samplerate occures. The MSB Analog DAC doesn't have this sample rate. The last version for foo_input_sacd to work stable is 0.7.8 . Asio Proxy 0.9.4. ..... It seams I have to choice between 2 compromises: to play everything, including 256DSD, but the latest version (1.0.6. ) sounds better but with the cost of loosing 256DSD... Do you know a better alternative to foobar to be able to play DSD256 native and overall better sound quality? Thank you in advance! Link to comment
bogi Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 You need additionally to install and configure foo_dsd_asio proxy to get native DSD output. See for example here https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/ “standard” DoP being the only available output so it may limit sample rate choice options for those using DACs that perform better with “native DSD” e.g. Amanero adapter based DACs or the iFi iDSD micro. Both of these are capable of accepting up to DSD512 in native mode but are limited to DSD128 (Amanero) or DSD256 (iDSD micro) in DoP mode. If you are interested in “native DSD” output jump or have a dCS or exD based DAC please jump straight to Mode #3 below.... Mode 3: upsampling with the plugin and the “foo_dsd_asio” proxy Note: In order to use this mode requires your DAC needs to have ASIO drivers Since the plugin is not included any longer in the plugin zip file, it needs to be downloaded separately from here ( version 0.9.4 is strongly recommended), decompressed to a folder and installed separately as a any other program. The advantages of using this Mode 3 over Mode 2 are: Three selectable DoP modes instead of one: Standard DoP – 0x05/0xFA, dCS – 0xAA and eXD Native DSD output available Mixed output modes depending on input, useful in case your DAC supports different sampling rates depending on base frquency like most XMOS based DACs which do not support native DSD if it is 48K based but accept 48K based DoP Selectable transition silence between formats Trace file creation for error debugging i7 11850H + RTX A2000 Win11 HQPlayer ► Topping HS02 ► 2x iFi iSilencer ► SMSL D300 ► DIY headamp DHA1 ► HiFiMan HE-500 Link to comment
JackAC Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 DSD -> Native DSD output, if supported by your DAC it is the most bandwidth efficient mode. This is a very convenient way to convert DoP from the SACD plugin to native DSD. Recommended whenever possible. DoP -> standard DSD over PCM (0x05/0xFA) marker. If your DAC supports DoP only it is most likely you will need to select this one. Also very convenient for XMOS based DACs that don’t support 48KHz based DSD through native DSD like iFi DACs. Is the one I use to upsample 48, 96 or 192KHz PCM to DoP DSD256 for my iDSD micro as can be seen in the screen capture. dCS AA-> DoP marker for dCS DACs (0xAA) exD AA/BB -> DoP marker for exD DACs Note: Since the SACD plugin outputs DSD in DoP format, foo_asio_proxy will process incoming DSD as per the configuration set for the incomming PCM sample rate: Incoming DSD64 in DoP format will use the upsampling configuration for 176400 Incoming DSD128 in DoP format will use the upsampling configuration for 352800 Incoming DSD256 in DoP format will use the upsampling configuration for 705600 Incoming DSD512 in DoP format will use the upsampling configuration for 1411200 So should you want to leave DSD unprocessed make sure you have all these PCM rates with no up/downsampling configured like in the shown screen capture. This may be a little of a nuisance if you have plenty 176.4 or 352.8K PCM music you want to convert to DSD but presently there is no alternative solution other than resampling these files with SOX to a 48KHz base, e.g. 176.4K->192K and 352.8->384K. Link to comment
JavierS Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I'm afraid the 176.4 and 352.2 problem can't be fixed, if you have many albums in those sample rates it is a real bummer. Fortunately neither is too common... Link to comment
JackAC Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 10 hours ago, JavierS said: I'm afraid the 176.4 and 352.2 problem can't be fixed, if you have many albums in those sample rates it is a real bummer. Fortunately neither is too common... I don't have any problem with 176 or 352 PCM native files. They work flawless. When I try to play DSD256 with the new foobar setup , any it would be, I get the message " You device not support sample rates of 700kHz" ( or something like this ). Link to comment
JavierS Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, JackAC said: I don't have any problem with 176 or 352 PCM native files. They work flawless. When I try to play DSD256 with the new foobar setup , any it would be, I get the message " You device not support sample rates of 700kHz" ( or something like this ). With XMOS drivers uou should use Mode 4. DSD256 DoP is see by the XMOS driver as 705.6 or 768KHz PCM hence the error message. As your DAC doesn't support DSD256 DoP, In the above pic you'll need to change in the 2nd column DSD256 to DSD128 for all 48KHz based sample rates: 48, 96, 192 and 384KHz. BTW, there is an error with 352.8 configured to DSD128 when it should be DSD256. The screen capture was done quite a while back and it also shows V. 0.9.2 proxy. Link to comment
koupa Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I followed the instructions but my device control panel reports PCM sample rates. Roon from the other side shows DSD sample rates. Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I am also having trouble playing native DSD 256 on Foobar. I get a "could not start Asio playback error". Did you guys manage to have it sorted? Link to comment
JavierS Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Have you tried the new DSDTranscoder component? unbalanced output 1 Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Thanks. I have tried but didn't seem to help and I ended up uninstalling it. I may have created some conflict with other components though. Will try again tonight and report back. Link to comment
JavierS Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 The guide in this link has been updated to show how to configure it: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/ unbalanced output 1 Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 hours ago, JavierS said: The guide in this link has been updated to show how to configure it: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/foobar-2000-for-dummies-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/ Thanks. I had followed this guide and that's how I ended up where I am now. So: First method (bit perfect with SACD and foo_dsd_asio) doesn't work for DSD 256. I've reinstalled DSDTranscoder and - surprise surprise - now the 256 file plays (no errors), however I don't get any sound neither over DSD nor PCM. Third method: DSD Processor over foo_dsd_asio doesn't seem to work if DSDTranscoder is installed. as in the first method (i.e. crashes on DSD 256). Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 DSD Transcoder Asio device was by default set to null output (duh). The two options I have are ASIO Combo384 driver and foo_dsd_asio. Both options have the same behavior, exactly as before (will play up to DSD 128). The native DSD 256 mode should work, however I tried both DSD and Dop combinations with no success. I'm using examples from http://www.2l.no/hires/, I suppose they should work... Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Follow up: tried HQPlayer and worked smoothly with Combo384. Initially, it didn't work in DSDTranscoder nor foo_dsd_asio modes. Having confirmed it works, I rolled back foo_input_SACD to 0.7.3 as suggested and now it works in all modes. In native mode, HQPlayer and Foobar sound very similar (perhaps not identical though). Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Eureka! The good people from NativeDSD suggested to delete the foo_dsd_processor bit from foo_input_SACD component. It worked! Now I can run directly from the latest version (1.0.9). It is not enough to deactivate the processor - the component has to be completely removed! Works wonderfully now. Link to comment
JavierS Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I have not used my Combo384 since I got the iDSD micro but I had no problems with it running native DSD through foo_dsd_asio up to DSD512 into a Buffalo III DAC. I can't see why it wouldn't work with DSDTranscoder if properly configured. As the plugin by itself outputs DoP it is limited to DSD128 on the Amanero which is fine if you don't want to upsample to higher rates. Link to comment
unbalanced output Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 DSD Transcoder can output directly in DSD, no need for DOP. Now works in all modes - Combo384, Transcoder and foo_dsd_asio which works on both of the previous. Agree that should work except that... it didn't Link to comment
JavierS Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Sorry, I don't quite follow what you are trying to say. Since version 0.9.7 SACD plugin only outputs DoP so either foo_dsd_asio or DSDTranscoder are necessary to output native DSD. For native DSD with DSDTranscoder it is necessary to have SACD plugin (with or without DSD Processor which also outputs DoP) "output mode" set to DSD (or DSD+PCM) --> Playback/Output/Device set to DSD:ASIO:DSDTranscoder (DoP/Native) --> Output/ASIO/ASIO Drivers/DSDTranscoder set to Combo384 and the desired sample rates set to DSD. Link to comment
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