iFi Audio iGalvanic3.0 - The Holy Grail of Computer Audio

[asdf1000]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:28 AM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

On a transport layer level one might call any A/V distribution system using RTP or UDP "streaming mode", as with these streams there is no guarantee that data will arrive and be decoded without corruption and error concealment must be used.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_Transport_Protocol
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Datagram_Protocol

A list of audio network protocols with their respective features can be found on Wikipedia:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_network_protocols

Any item marked as "isochronous" or "synchronous" in this table is subject to the same problems as USB and SPDIF in terms of not having any guarantee of delivery.

 

Isochronous/synchronous protocols guarantee bandwidth availability at the cost of reliable transmission and hence generally used for real time transmission of Audio & Video. 

 

Only systems marked as "asynchronous" will guarantee uncorrupted data.

 

One might call these isochronous/synchronous systems "convenience focused" and question their absolute suitability for high quality transmission on the grounds that in principle they can easily transmit corrupt data and have no option to recover it uncorrupted.

 

Also a question on this:

 

If the USB DAC is asynchronous (like the iFi iDSD) does it matter if the ethernet streaming is only isochronous, since the USB DAC will be in complete control and will guarantee uncorrupted data?

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 20.04.2017 at 4:05 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks gents! When you say isochronous is subject to the same problems as USB, a lot of USB these days is asynchronous, so not all USB has these potential corrupt data issues, no?

 

 

There is some inconsistency in the use of the term 'asynchronous'.

 

Asynchronous USB (audio) is a marketing term that was coined by a company that introduced the first practical implementation of the asynchronous mode of USB audio class and has gone into widespread use, though strictly speaking the terminology is somewhat questionable.

 

For USB A/V class devices the streaming is ALWAYS isochronous, no matter if they are called asynchronous or adaptive or synchronous. 

 

We discussed this in our paper over at Audiostream:

• http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-audio-gremlins-exposed-beyond-1s-and-0s-ifi-audio

Almost all ethernet based protocols for audio distribution are also isochronous. For ethernet, "asynchronous" is a formal term implying that data packets may be sent in nonlinear order, at no fixed timing etc.

 

To illustrate this better, when playing a music track from a network disk share, you are using asynchronous ethernet, the player device must handle buffering of data to make sure there is no stuttering due to delayed data, as there is no guaranteed stream bandwidth, however data corruption will result in data re-transmission so the music track will always be bit-perfect.

 

When playing a music track from any "server" device that uses isochronous ethernet streaming, it is guaranteed that the bandwidth required for the stream is reserved (though network contention/collision/interruption may still occur). However if any data packet is corrupted error concealment must be used as there is no way to recover corrupt data. So 

 

On 20.04.2017 at 4:05 AM, Em2016 said:

 

I have to assume that table is correct and up to date.

 

Wikipedia tends to be reasonably well curated. We would probably recommend to fact-check before making purchasing decisions based on information posted on Wikipedia, seeing as we live in the "post truth" age, but usually said site's content "checks out".
 

On 20.04.2017 at 4:05 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Where does Roon's RAAT protocol fit in that table?

 

 

This question is best asked of and answered by the vendor, Roon (they are really nice btw.) and not by us, as we are just a third party.

 

At any extent, company policy is to not comment directly on specific products or vendors but to stick to the general underlying principles.

[juanitox]

wake up the Iso-regen is out , do you want to miss the train?! 

[thuandb]

I'll wait for the iGalvanic3.0, as I believe in iFi Audio.

[Miracle1980]

I have an sbooster vbus isolator  that basically cuts the 5V from the usb of my mini-pc. Then from the vbus isolator i go via usb (without 5v) to my digital interface that is powered by linear psu.

Do i still need one of these gadget? 

 

Thanks

[AMR/iFi audio]

USB is in the AMR/iFi DNA - part #4

Over a decade of development

 

2012. The iUSB Power. A new sector is born.

With the launch of AMR’s baby-brand ‘iFi audio’ at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, the iUSB Power was in the first iFi wave. Audiostream was one of the first to review this new iFi product.

 

 

 

http://www.audiostream.com/content/i-fi

 

We realised back then that:

 

1. Clean USB power

 

and

 

2. Good ground isolation

 

....had a huge impact on the sound quality.

 

The iUSB Power was one of, if not the very first, USB audio improvement devices to offer sonic benefits to the growing market of US$1,000 USB DACs that were USB-powered (hence VERY sensitive to USB power quality). Including the iDAC, they all benefitted greatly from the iUSB Power.

 

 

One of our first reviews was organized with Stereophile.  We took the iDAC and iUSB to Art Dudley. While the visit went fine, we most fondly remember Art’s dog, Chatter (though many including us kept calling him ‘Jitter’) who was quite a hyper-active dog jumping around and about as mad as a box of frogs. 

 

 

2013. The iPurifier. REBalance the USB signal.

The USB signal is balanced. Few consider it important to balance the signal that becomes unbalanced along the transmission process.

 

The REbalance technology was developed specifically to address this. This gave us the impetus to a new chassis around which to develop the active range in the next generation and to use different connectors for different applications.

 

 

Here is a picture of the iPurifier used in a setup by recording engineer Francesco Campbell in Italy.

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/iFiAudio/photos/?tab=album&album_id=651774948191584

[AMR/iFi audio]

Anyone suspects what this critter might be all about?

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

Anyone suspects what this critter might be all about?

 

 

Cutting edge? ?

 

BTW. Any news regarding iGalvanic 3.0 price and/or release date yet?

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 4.05.2017 at 11:29 PM, Cornan said:

 

Cutting edge? ?

 

BTW. Any news regarding iGalvanic 3.0 price and/or release date yet?

 

Early June.  It’ll be worth the wait.

[rickca]

What about the iDSD Pro?  Is that still even a thing?

[AMR/iFi audio]

8 hours ago, rickca said:

What about the iDSD Pro?  Is that still even a thing?

 

Of course it is. 

[miksu8]

Is iGalvanic 3.0 only Ifi product that provides real ground isolation on USB 2.0 (not 3.0)?

[AMR/iFi audio]

USB is in the AMR/iFi DNA - part #5
Over a decade of development

 

2013. The Great USB 3.0 Crisis.

 

 

It was not all smooth sailing. In 2013 we started to receive reports that the iDSD nano was not working correctly with the latest Mac laptops. After much hair pulling, cussing and copious amounts of black coffee, working closely with XMOS, we were able to pin down the problem.

 

It turned out that that the latest Intel chipset's USB3.0 hardware was actually not 100% backwards compatible with the USB2.0 standard. How these chips ever passed validation and formal USB testing - well, one has to email Intel. Now in theory, Intel and Apple should have gone and fixed this mess. But they just shrugged and replied "You want us to recall millions of laptops and computers – don’t think so."

 

The bottom line was that there were millions of machines out there and more coming by the day, with USB systems that had USB2.0 broken on the (often only) USB3.0 ports and not only our products, but every product using XMOS Audio ended up not working. Ohhh my.

 

https://superuser.com/questions/482179/usb-3-0-ports-backwards-compatibility-problems-with-2-0-devices

 

There was a workaround in disabling the USB3.0 hardware in the BIOS for Windows and a by far more involved sequence of actions on Apple Macs. In practice, it proved difficult to convince our customers that the fault lay with Intel and that they needed to disable USB3.0 (even if they were not using any USB3.0 devices).

 

Thus, it was clear we had to fix the XMOS firmware, in such a way that would not only work well with the new Macs & PCs but remain fully USB standard compliant. It took many nights burning the midnight oil by both software teams (XMOS and our own) before suitable firmware updates could be made available.

 

If we learned anything from this episode (other than more about the inner workings of the XMOS USB Audio solution than we ever wanted to know, though it came in handy later), USB3.0 was here to stay and to ignore it would be pure folly.

 

We learned a great deal from this incident. The lesson was that Apple and other PC makers were moving to USB3.0. As the old adage goes, “the trend is your friend.”

 

To us, back then, we saw USB2.0 in the same light as the Nokia3310 (original) well, kinda old.

 

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2823091/oldest-mobile-phone-uk/

[agladstone]

It is now early June, any update on when this will be available in the USA?

Also, what iPower does this come with and what are the power requirements ?

[thuandb]

I'm waiting to.  I don't think it'd come with an iPower, as it takes power from USB port.

[AMR/iFi audio]

5 hours ago, agladstone said:

It is now early June, any update on when this will be available in the USA?

Also, what iPower does this come with and what are the power requirements ?

 

It's going to be available soon, just a little more time to wait. iGalvanic is USB powered.

[agladstone]

Thanks for the update.

So if it is USB powered does it not require any external power supply? Where does it draw its power from (The computer / media player going in OR the DAC going out?

Just so I understand correctly, The iGalvonic does everything the micro iUSB 3.0 does PLUS Galvonic isolation, is this correct, or would you still need to use a micro iUSB 3.0 along with the iGalvonic ?

Thanks

[AMR/iFi audio]

18 hours ago, agladstone said:

Thanks for the update.

So if it is USB powered does it not require any external power supply? Where does it draw its power from (The computer / media player going in OR the DAC going out?

Just so I understand correctly, The iGalvonic does everything the micro iUSB 3.0 does PLUS Galvonic isolation, is this correct, or would you still need to use a micro iUSB 3.0 along with the iGalvonic ?

Thanks

 

iGalvanic is powered from a USB port. Ideally, our TOTL USB solution is iGalvanic + iUSB3.0. iGalvanic can do some things iUSB3.0 does, but won't be as good in these as iUSB3.0. Its major feature is galvanic isolation and it can be used easily on its own. Yet if one is in search for the best USB treatment there is, iGalvanic + iUSB3.0 is the way to go.

[agladstone]

Thanks, so where does the micro iUSB go within the chain, before the iGalvonic or after? 

What would be the ideal chain specifically (using iGalvonic and micro iUSB )? 

Also, I use an Aurender N100H dedicated server, so I would prefer to power the IGalvonic from an external source, would the Micro IUSB 3.0 work as the power source so the power does not need to draw from the Aurender's USB out port? 

[AMR/iFi audio]

17 hours ago, agladstone said:

Thanks, so where does the micro iUSB go within the chain, before the iGalvonic or after? 

What would be the ideal chain specifically (using iGalvonic and micro iUSB )? 

Also, I use an Aurender N100H dedicated server, so I would prefer to power the IGalvonic from an external source, would the Micro IUSB 3.0 work as the power source so the power does not need to draw from the Aurender's USB out port? 

 

iGalvanic goes before iUSB3.0. The ideal setup is as above: iGalvanic + iUSB3.0. Let me double check powering iG from external source.

[agladstone]

Thank you! 

Also what would the USB cable chain look like in this set up? (How many USB cables would I need and what input and output in and out of the micro iUSB 3.0)?

Also, does the Micro iUSB 3.0 require external power? What Voltage (USA) and is it a 5.5 / 2.1 plug into the Micro i USB? 

[AMR/iFi audio]

2 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Also, does the Micro iUSB 3.0 require external power? What Voltage (USA) and is it a 5.5 / 2.1 plug into the Micro i USB? 

 

Please take a look two posts above, we already gave an answer to that one.

[agladstone]

Thanks for all your help!! 

I am currently upgrading my Linear power supply, so trying to plan ahead in anticipation of the iGalvonic. 

I cuirently have a Wyred4sound Recovery USB Reclocker and I'm trying to decide between:

iGalvonic + Micro iUSB 3.0

iGalvonic + W4S Recovery

ISO Regen 

ISO Regen + W4S Recovery OR Micro iUSB 

[AMR/iFi audio]

1 hour ago, agladstone said:

Thanks for all your help!! 

I am currently upgrading my Linear power supply, so trying to plan ahead in anticipation of the iGalvonic. 

I cuirently have a Wyred4sound Recovery USB Reclocker and I'm trying to decide between:

iGalvonic + Micro iUSB 3.0

iGalvonic + W4S Recovery

ISO Regen 

ISO Regen + W4S Recovery OR Micro iUSB 

 

Our company policy restrains us from any comments on other manufacturers products, hence we can't say a word here. It's for the best to simply try our product, our distributors and dealers have generous return policy. Simply let your ears to be the judge and good luck!

[elan120]

@AMR/iFi audio, does iGalvanic provide isolation from AC leakage current or does it only do isolation from USB input?

 

By placing iGalvanic in front of Micro iUSB3, will SQ improve if power to Micro iUSB is isolated from AC leakage current?

 

Thank you