iFi Audio iGalvanic3.0 - The Holy Grail of Computer Audio

[thyname]

So if Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated and it does not need an isolator, why do I need to put the iGalvanic3.0 between mRendu and Singxer SU-1? mRendu gets the signal via ethernet, and has built in USB cleaning stuff.

 

1 hour ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

And iGalvanic3.0 wouldn't replace any of your components as what it mainly provides is a USB galvanic isolation. Its place in your setup would be past MR and before SU-1.

 

1 hour ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

 

Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated. So it does not need an isolator.

 

 

 

[Silly goose]

49 minutes ago, thyname said:

So if Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated and it does not need an isolator, why do I need to put the iGalvanic3.0 between mRendu and Singxer SU-1? mRendu gets the signal via ethernet, and has built in USB cleaning stuff.

 

 

 

Because the more boxes the better. it's the journey not the destination. It's what makes this hobby so fun!!

[thyname]

16 minutes ago, Silly goose said:

it's the journey not the destination. 

 

You should trademark this!

[Silly goose]

19 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

You should trademark this!

I updated my sig

[wgscott]

You quack me up.

[tedwoods]

12 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated. So it does not need an isolator

I am not sure my terminology is spot on, but I am referring to products like these:

http://www.artistic-fidelity.de/index.php/en/giso-isolator

https://www.highend-audiopc.com/shop/en/accessories/sotm-iso-cat6

https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/pcaudio/lan_isolator.html 

http://pinkfaun.com/index.php/nieuws/pink-faun-lan-isolator.html

[AMR/iFi audio]

23 hours ago, Silly goose said:

There's no bandwidth limitations to Ravenna, only the bandwidth of the network. . Here's details on the latest board going into dozen's of DAC's and active speakers this year. 

 

 

 

We will see the outcome. We have seen so far at least five different network audio protocols that have all been promoted heavily as the "full solution" and have remained very limited in adoption. 

If AES67 changes that and leads to widespread software & hardware support, that can only be a good thing. If that happens, then we can debate Ethernet gizmos (probably a dedicated AV switch with optimized routing for AV and other features).

 

          

23 hours ago, Silly goose said:

 

• All PCM sampling frequencies from 44.1 to 192 kHz plus DXD and 384kHz supported. DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 supported.

 

 

So PCM 768 kHz & DSD512 are not supported. 

[AMR/iFi audio]

22 hours ago, thyname said:

So if Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated and it does not need an isolator, why do I need to put the iGalvanic3.0 between mRendu and Singxer SU-1? mRendu gets the signal via ethernet, and has built in USB cleaning stuff.

 

 

 

 

You don't need to put an iGalvanic in the above situation. For long cable length, a non-isolated USB repeater device without isolation will do just as well, or nothing will do if your USB cable is very short and of quality high enough.

[Silly goose]

13 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

So PCM 768 kHz & DSD512 are not supported. 

With a simple firmware update up to DSD 1024 could easily be supported. But after extensive testing the developers came to the conclusion that the higher jitter clocks, or PLL generated clock required to support above DSD 256, was far more detrimental to the sound than the lower jitter clocks necessary for DSD 256. However if mediocre clocks are used anyways, there may be an edge going higher. But since there's no source material above 256, really only computer geeks who care about that. And only because they haven't heard the same DAC with the better clocks they could of had if the engineers made the decision to max out at 256. 

[thyname]

1 minute ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

You don't need to put an iGalvanic in the above situation. For long cable length, a non-isolated USB repeater device without isolation will do just as well, or nothing will do if your USB cable is very short and of quality high enough.

 

But you told me to do so previously (see your post as a reply to me below). Am I missing something?

 

23 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Most retailers have 30-day (or longer) trial. So you can try it. Perhaps tweaking and hassle is worth the effort?

 

And iGalvanic3.0 wouldn't replace any of your components as what it mainly provides is a USB galvanic isolation. Its place in your setup would be past MR and before SU-1.

 

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, thyname said:

 

But you told me to do so previously (see your post as a reply to me below). Am I missing something?

 

 

 

Hi mate, I think they were saying if you were to add it in your chain, then between the mR and SU-1 is where it would go.

 

But best to try it out (free trial costs nothing) as to whether you really need it (as they suggested too).

 

[Krutsch]

On 4/13/2017 at 2:43 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

 

Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated. So it does not need an isolator.

 

...

 

1. DLNA, AVB, Dante, Ravenna to name the more mainstream audio ones

2. Streaming mode Ethernet is subject to the same problems as isochronous USB, namely guarantedd bandwidth but no re-transmission on error

 

Right on, man. Most refreshing CA post I've seen in weeks.

 

And streaming mode Ethernet needs to die a savage death. People are trying to reinvent the wheel, for obvious marketing reasons, when TCP and UDP have shown themselves to scale to infinity, with quality and simplicity of implementation. Look at what the Roon guys have done with IP ... 'nuff said.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, Krutsch said:

 

Right on, man. Most refreshing CA post I've seen in weeks.

 

And streaming mode Ethernet needs to die a savage death. People are trying to reinvent the wheel, for obvious marketing reasons, when TCP and UDP have shown themselves to scale to infinity, with quality and simplicity of implementation. Look at what the Roon guys have done with IP ... 'nuff said.

 

Hi mate, what are some examples of 'streaming mode Ethernet'?

 

[juanitox]

On 14/04/2017 at 9:29 PM, Silly goose said:

With a simple firmware update up to DSD 1024 could easily be supported. But after extensive testing the developers came to the conclusion that the higher jitter clocks, or PLL generated clock required to support above DSD 256, was far more detrimental to the sound than the lower jitter clocks necessary for DSD 256. However if mediocre clocks are used anyways, there may be an edge going higher. But since there's no source material above 256, really only computer geeks who care about that. And only because they haven't heard the same DAC with the better clocks they could of had if the engineers made the decision to max out at 256. 

 

i like their sense of humor ! 

[lmitche]

On 4/13/2017 at 3:43 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

Ethernet is inherently galvanically isolated. So it does not need an isolator.

While theoretical true, the addition of isolation has been proven to enhance ethernet sound quality time and time again.  Just read the network isolation or fiber network threads here on CA.

 

I have two ethernet isolators in serial here.  The second one makes a huge difference in SQ. So much for theory!

[Foggie]

On 4/13/2017 at 2:46 PM, Silly goose said:

There's no bandwidth limitations to Ravenna, only the bandwidth of the network. . Here's details on the latest board going into dozen's of DAC's and active speakers this year.

 

Care to share what dozen's of DAC's will have this Ethernet?

[Silly goose]

3 hours ago, Foggie said:

 

Care to share what dozen's of DAC's will have this Ethernet?

You'll find out when they're released. 

[agladstone]

10 hours ago, lmitche said:

While theoretical true, the addition of isolation has been proven to enhance ethernet sound quality time and time again.  Just read the network isolation or fiber network threads here on CA.

 

I have two ethernet isolators in serial here.  The second one makes a huge difference in SQ. So much for theory!

How do you have them in serial in your system ? One right after the other, or one before the router (or switch) and one after ? 

I have a total of 3 Ethernet isolators in my chain now (1 from cable modem to wireless router w/ Ethernet switch built in, 1 from router to my Aurender server, and one between my router and my desktop (I did not know where to best use the 3rd one and I thought perhaps this would help isolate any noise from my desktop???)

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, agladstone said:

How do you have them in serial in your system ? One right after the other, or one before the router (or switch) and one after ? 

I have a total of 3 Ethernet isolators in my chain now (1 from cable modem to wireless router w/ Ethernet switch built in, 1 from router to my Aurender server, and one between my router and my desktop (I did not know where to best use the 3rd one and I thought perhaps this would help isolate any noise from my desktop???)

I have an Asus ean66 wired wireless adapter powered by a LPS to a three foot bjc cat 6a, an emosystems EN70HD, 1foot bjc cat6a, another emosystems EN70HD, and lastly another 1 foot bjc cat6a into an Intel server nic card pt100/1000.

[agladstone]

13 minutes ago, lmitche said:

I have an Asus ean66 wired wireless adapter powered by a LPS to a three foot bjc cat 6a, an emosystems EN70HD, 1foot bjc cat6a, another emosystems EN70HD, and lastly another 1 foot bjc cat6a into an Intel server nic card pt100/1000.

Interesting, and you are saying that adding that second Ethernet Isolator in a series gives you a sonic / sound quality upgrade vs just one? I will have to try it!! I have the same BJC Cat 6a cables. Have you tried one before the asus adapter and one after to test differences? 

I will "pull" my third Ethernet isolator going to my desktop and experiment with two in a series prior to entering my Aurender N100H to see if it has any benefit! 

[lmitche]

17 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Interesting, and you are saying that adding that second Ethernet Isolator in a series gives you a sonic / sound quality upgrade vs just one? I will have to try it!! I have the same BJC Cat 6a cables. Have you tried one before the asus adapter and one after to test differences? 

I will "pull" my third Ethernet isolator going to my desktop and experiment with two in a series prior to entering my Aurender N100H to see if it has any benefit! 

Yes 1+1 =3.  There is no before the wireless adapter, just air.

[agladstone]

Just now, lmitche said:

Yes 1+1 =3.  There is no before the wireless adapter, just air.

Ahh , got it, I don't k ow why I was thinking "adapter" was referring to "router" or "switch". 

My router/switch combo (Netgear Nighthawk I think - their current top of line model) is connected via Ethernet to an external cable modem (Ethernet isolator in between) and then second Ethernet isolator between router and Aurender. 

I will report back if a second isolator in series gives me any added sound quality benefit as you have found in your chain. 

[Krutsch]

16 hours ago, lmitche said:

While theoretical true, the addition of isolation has been proven to enhance ethernet sound quality time and time again.  Just read the network isolation or fiber network threads here on CA.

 

I have two ethernet isolators in serial here.  The second one makes a huge difference in SQ. So much for theory!

 

Proven. Really? I am generally sympathetic to subjectivist opinions, but I've not seen anything on this topic, other than reviewer commentary that is without measurement or non-sighted listening tests.

[mozes]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

I have an Asus ean66 wired wireless adapter powered by a LPS to a three foot bjc cat 6a, an emosystems EN70HD, 1foot bjc cat6a, another emosystems EN70HD, and lastly another 1 foot bjc cat6a into an Intel server nic card pt100/1000.

@lmitche I can confirm your results. After reading your post, I removed the Baaske that I have on my main router and plugged it in front of my , so the chain now looks like this:

TP-Link 802n bridge>1 foot BJC Cat6>Baaske>1 foot BJC Cat 6a>RLI-1>Nimitra

 

I got a nice boost in sound when streaming Tidal, It seems I was wasting the Baaske all this time on my main router, it was doing nothing over there

 

Thanks for sharing this tip!

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, mozes said:

@lmitche I can confirm your results. After reading your post, I removed the Baaske that I have on my main router and plugged it in front of my , so the chain now looks like this:

TP-Link 802n bridge>1 foot BJC Cat6>Baaske>1 foot BJC Cat 6a>RLI-1>Nimitra

 

I got a nice boost in sound when streaming Tidal, It seems I was wasting the Baaske all this time on my main router, it was doing nothing over there

 

Thanks for sharing this tip!

 

I think that you have just discovered a good place to experiment with your grounding box. The TP-Link bridge! ?