HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, shadowlight said:

@Miska and @Em2016, your feedback has been incorporated.  Please review and let me know if I missed anything.

 

I would like to include the CUDA configuration under Ubuntu but I have not tested the configuration to see if I have all the steps correct.  The guide will be updated once I have completedly tested the configuration by following the steps :).

 

Miska, the libgmpris package versions for Bionic and Stretch are different version.  I am not sure if that makes a difference in the grand scheme but something to report.

 

HQPlayer Embedded Install Guide v.0.7.pdf

 

Thanks for adding this extra stuff! Greatly appreciated.

 

One question. Once someone has HQPe installed per your document, what's the cleanest and simplest way to update HQPe version when Jussi releases the next version. Can you include that in the document too?

 

Is it a one line command to update HQPe version? Or all steps need to be executed again?

 

[shadowlight]

10 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Thanks for adding this extra stuff! Greatly appreciated.

 

One question. Once someone has HQPe installed per your document, what's the cleanest and simplest way to update HQPe version when Jussi releases the next version. Can you include that in the document too?

 

Is it a one line command to update HQPe version? Or all steps need to be executed again?

 

Document updated to include options for updating the embedded package once a newer version is released.  I also added commands to update the OS packages if someone wants to update in the future.  I run the command once a month to make sure that I have the latest packages installed, especially security updates.

 

HQPlayer Embedded Install Guide v.0.7a.pdf

[Holzohr]

On 11/21/2018 at 3:23 PM, Johnseye said:

 

I tested the NAA with ramroot.  It loads extremely fast.  I pulled out the USB and everything functioned as expected.  SQ is great at first listen.  Thank you very much Jussi.  Are there complexities in adding a similar capability to Embedded in one way shape or form?

 

Thank you John for been that persistent convincing Miska to create a NAA/ramroot image.. ?

It indeed loads very fast compared to the (much bigger) Audiolinux mini image. My Windows server with HQPlayer and my "magic" NUC 7CJYH start to boot at the same time and with the Audiolinux headless image booting into RAM the HQPlayer always had problems to find the NAA. This is solved by the NAA/ramroot image. 

 

Now I am trying to get a direct connection via ipv6 between the Windows server and the NAA-NUC but without success so far. With Audiolinux as server it was working but I am back to Windows due to my HQPlayer Windows license key.

 

Of course, thanks to Miska for the NAA/ramroot image too.

[hifi25nl]

About Audiolinux Network configuration and ipv6, Audiolinux headless 0.5 has an automatic configuration that will permit to connect immediately after booting the first time.

However, for a more stable network configuration,  follow the little guide below.

---> if you have more than one card, add a second configuration file in  /etc/systemd/network/

---> if you are using Network bridge you must have DHCP=yes in your .network file

 

Look for your  network name with

networkctl

Example:

[audiolinux@archlinux ~]$ networkctl 
IDX LINK             TYPE               OPERATIONAL SETUP      
 1 lo               loopback           carrier     unmanaged  
 2 enp3s0           ether              routable    configured

If, for example, your network is enp3s0 (yours will be most probably different)  change as root  /etc/systemd/network/en.network from

 

[Match]
Name=en*

 

[Network]
DHCP=yes

 

to

 

[Match]
Name=enp3s0

 

[Network]
DHCP=yes

  

Delete (as root)  /etc/systemd/network/eth.network with

rm /etc/systemd/network/eth.network

and reboot

 

DHCP=yes

will allow both ipv4 and ipv6

See wiki at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd-networkd

[Holzohr]

Thank you Piero! I will try this the next days with the headless Audiolinux version. With the lxqt version I got the ipv6 connection to the NAA-NUC via the NetworkManager.

 

Btw, I gave up to boot the BBB image.. lol (Mario here). 

 

Grazie again!

[Miska]

Note that if you run HQPlayer Embedded and have system using NetworkManager vs systemd-networkd you need to have the hqplayerd.service modified accordingly. Otherwise you will have trouble...

 

If you run graphical desktop with NetworkManager and have hqplayerd started at boot, the system won't behave correctly anyway because things happen in wrong order by definition.

[acatala]

I have been running a few tests this afternoon with HQPlayer Embedded deployment. I am running Roon Core and HQPlayer Embedded over Debian Linux 9.6 on a Intel NUC7I7BNH. 

 

The Intel NUC is not located in the same room as the DAC (Rotel RC-1590 preamp. with integrated DAC), so I am using a Raspberri Pi 3 with DietPi and RoonBridge. I can stream over FastEthernet from Roon Core at DSD128 rate without problems. While Roon Core is upsampling from PCM (RedBook) to DSD128, "top" command shows a use of processor of 40%-50%.

 

I also have a Raspberri Pi 3 B+ that I would like to use as NAA for HQPlayer Embedded, but @Miska said me that the Raspberry could not work fine as NAA for streams at upper rates (PCM192, DSD64, DSD128, etc). I have configure HQPlayer Embedded to upsample to DSD64, DSD128, PCM384, PCM192 and PCM96. I only can hear the music without pops at PCM96.

 

Allo USBridge could be a nice alternative but I find it pricey. Would Asus Tinker Board be a valid alternative to Raspberry Pi 3 B+ as hardware for running NAA?

 

I could use in the future another Intel NUC in order to run HQPlayer Embedded directly attached to the DAC as suggested by @Miska, but when I upsample to DSD128 using poly-sinc-xtr-mp-2s filter with HQPlayer Embedded the NUC7I7BNH reaches a CPU use close to 100%, is that a normal value for that CPU/upsample combo?

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[shadowlight]

I have not researched this at all or tried it myself so I could be completely wrong about this, but have you thought about using the USB DAC and WiFi on on the RPi 3?  As Miska has mentioned the ethernet and USB share resources but I believe the WiFi is completely set of bus.

 

Personally, if I was in your shoes I would just get another low powered Intel NUC type of device and install Linux if your system supports it or Windows if Linux support is not available.

[acatala]

3 hours ago, shadowlight said:

I have not researched this at all or tried it myself so I could be completely wrong about this, but have you thought about using the USB DAC and WiFi on on the RPi 3?  As Miska has mentioned the ethernet and USB share resources but I believe the WiFi is completely set of bus.

 

Actually, I have. Yesterday, I installed DietPi and networkaudiod. When I was configuring DietPi, I went to the Wi-Fi config menu and it told that Wi-Fi interface was on, but it was unable to find drivers for it. I will try again tomorrow. Perharps there is a problem with this RPi 3 B+ unit. It would be a solution for me because the RPi 3 B+ is going to stay a couple of feet from the AP.

 

3 hours ago, shadowlight said:

 

Personally, if I was in your shoes I would just get another low powered Intel NUC type of device and install Linux if your system supports it or Windows if Linux support is not available.

 

That is another option I was thinking about: Using a low cost NUC (I3, Celeron, previous generation, etc) that would run networkd daemon on Linux. But as "an alternative to this alternartive" I thought of using a "full" NUC that would run HQPlayer Embedded directly attached to the DAC, as far as there were no problems with fan noise. That's why I was thinking of an NUC I5 with fanless case, but I was worried about the CPU use with the NUC7I7 when upsampling to DSD128.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, acatala said:

That is another option I was thinking about: Using a low cost NUC (I3, Celeron, previous generation, etc) that would run networkd daemon on Linux. But as "an alternative to this alternartive" I thought of using a "full" NUC that would run HQPlayer Embedded directly attached to the DAC, as far as there were no problems with fan noise. That's why I was thinking of an NUC I5 with fanless case, but I was worried about the CPU use with the NUC7I7 when upsampling to DSD128.

 

This is what I use as a NAA with my bootable image:

https://up-shop.org/home/81-up-gws01w4g-memory32g-emmc-boardwo-vesa-plate.html

I have listed also some other recommended NAA hardware on the web page. It has also WiFi available, but it is USB-connected, so if you need WiFi, something else may be better suited where WiFi is attached to mPCIe, like:

https://www.logicsupply.com/eu-en/cl100/

https://www.logicsupply.com/eu-en/cl200g-10/

These have the DHXA-222 wireless card available:

https://www.logicsupply.com/dhxa-222/

I have not personally tested these with WiFi, only the CL-100 through Ethernet. But that wireless is supposed to work with ath9k driver on Linux too. Probably corresponding Intel wireless cards would work too.

 

I consider any Core-based NUC overpowered for a NAA... I think Atoms, or the low power Celeron/Pentium branded models are better suited for the purpose.

 

NUC7i7 is just ultra-book category low power dual core CPU. With it, you can turn off "Multicore DSP" in HQPlayer settings. I have one for running my measurement rig, but I have not done practically any testing with it for HQPlayer use because it has too loud fan for my taste (NUC7i7BNH model to be exact). I purchased it just because it is small and supports 4k through HDMI 2.0.

 

[acatala]

53 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

This is what I use as a NAA with my bootable image:

https://up-shop.org/home/81-up-gws01w4g-memory32g-emmc-boardwo-vesa-plate.html

I have listed also some other recommended NAA hardware on the web page. It has also WiFi available, but it is USB-connected, so if you need WiFi, something else may be better suited where WiFi is attached to mPCIe, like:

https://www.logicsupply.com/eu-en/cl100/

https://www.logicsupply.com/eu-en/cl200g-10/

These have the DHXA-222 wireless card available:

https://www.logicsupply.com/dhxa-222/

I have not personally tested these with WiFi, only the CL-100 through Ethernet. But that wireless is supposed to work with ath9k driver on Linux too. Probably corresponding Intel wireless cards would work too.

 

I did look at them yesterday. UP Gateway could be a candidate for me too. The other NAA devices from your recomended hardware list are too pricey for my needs, I mean Sonore and SOtm devices. You don't tell in your web anything about Asus Tinker. I don't know if it isn't recommended or just it hasn't been tested.

 

53 minutes ago, Miska said:

I consider any Core-based NUC overpowered for a NAA... I think Atoms, or the low power Celeron/Pentium branded models are better suited for the purpose.

 

I also consider it overpowered for a NAA. Because of that I thought that in case to use a Intel NUC, I would choose one that could run HQPlayer Embedded like you do. It is a more expensive alternative, but an alternative after all.

 

53 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

NUC7i7 is just ultra-book category low power dual core CPU. With it, you can turn off "Multicore DSP" in HQPlayer settings. I have one for running my measurement rig, but I have not done practically any testing with it for HQPlayer use because it has too loud fan for my taste (NUC7i7BNH model to be exact). I purchased it just because it is small and supports 4k through HDMI 2.0.

 

 

I have updated multicore parameter from "auto" to "0". I am not at home, I did it with the SSH client. I will test it tomorrow.

[Crom]

On 7/19/2018 at 4:15 AM, jabbr said:

The Xavier is calling me ... need a reason to get

 

 

Now the Xavier does look interesting:

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems-dev-kits-modules/

 

Could it be the answer to upsampling to 512 DSD with HQP (using one of Miska's more intensive algorithms) without having to live with an Intel monster CPU, fans etc?

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Crom said:

Now the Xavier does look interesting:

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems-dev-kits-modules/

 

Could it be the answer to upsampling to 512 DSD with HQP (using one of Miska's more intensive algorithms) without having to live with an Intel monster CPU, fans etc?

 

I doubt it will be answer to such given it's 30W TDP, and that now RTX 2080 can do such things. Price tag at 2500+ EUR is not particularly cheap either. Probably more like alternative to Intel's low-TDP CPUs...

 

[Crom]

Yep, good point...but it would be great to find a platform that could run HQP effectively and be powered by a quiet power supply. Clearly that graphics card is going to need a beast of an ATX psu. I previously ran a xeon-based supermicro board with a set of DIY linear power supplies. It didn't have the horsepower needed for HQP so I've replaced it with a more powerful desktop system as an interim solution. Comparing the two platorms using HQP with v limited upsampling demonstrated that the better power supply was the way to go but that the more intensive algorithms and higher upsampling able to be processed by HQP on the desktop system won the day overall...I just want my cake and eat it!

 

1350 euro (ex VAT/sales tax) with a nvidia developer account which doesn't seem too arduous to get.

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems-dev-kits-modules/

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Crom said:

Comparing the two platorms using HQP with v limited upsampling demonstrated that the better power supply was the way to go but that the more intensive algorithms and higher upsampling able to be processed by HQP on the desktop system won the day overall...I just want my cake and eat it!

 

I think best way to approach both simultaneously is to use NAA.

 

I'm running my i7-7700K + RTX2080 from a fanless PSU (IIRC 650W), but not much to spare anymore.

 

[asdf1000]

On 10/7/2018 at 9:40 AM, shadowlight said:

In case anyone is interested on how Estelon Lynx leverages HQPlayer in their design -

 

 

Only just seen this video now. Great technology.

 

@Miska have you had a chance to hear these yourself? And any idea what DSD rate and filter settings they use?

 

Not that I'd be disappointed with any particular answer - only out of interest.

 

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

@Miska have you had a chance to hear these yourself? And any idea what DSD rate and filter settings they use?

 

 

Yes, I have heard it several times...  Those have been on listen also at Munich High-End show I think at least twice.

 

No comments about technical details...

 

[asdf1000]

8 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, I have heard it several times...  Those have been on listen also at Munich High-End show I think at least twice.

 

No comments about technical details...

 

 

Ha nice! I've just seen it up-samples to DSD64...

 

"On the technical front, the LYNX is built on Estelon’s ‘Intelligent Audio’ technology, which at its core is the HQPlayer from Signalyst. That converts every file played through it to a DSD64 stream."

 

https://www.whathifi.com/news/estelon-introduces-intelligent-lynx-speaker-system

 

I know you probably can't answer publicly but I wonder why they couldn't go up to DSD128 (at least). Gentler analogue filtering.

 

I assume it's a CPU thing, assuming all the heavy lifting is done in one of the speakers it's then 6 channels (3 per speaker)

 

I might ask them.

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

Hi @Miska @shadowlight

 

 

For the correct firmware for miniDSP USBStreamer, over on the sonicTransporter thread, JR wrote:

 

"Step 1: Install stereo i2s/Toslink firmware on the MiniDSP Streamer."

 

I'm confused - which of these two folders is the correct firmware? 

 

One has "I2S" in the folder name and one has "stereo" in the folder name - neither has both stereo and i2s in the folder name.... clear as mud ?

 

 

Manual doesn't help either, with no mention of stereo firmware:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi @Miska @shadowlight

 

For the correct firmware for miniDSP USBStreamer, over on the sonicTransporter thread, JR wrote:

 

"Step 1: Install stereo i2s/Toslink firmware on the MiniDSP Streamer."

 

I'm confused - which of these two folders is the correct firmware? 

 

One has "I2S" in the folder name and one has "stereo" in the folder name - neither has both stereo and i2s in the folder name.... clear as mud ?

 

 

Manual doesn't help either, with no mention of stereo firmware:

 

 

 

Stereo Toslink IN/OUT... The board inside has also I2S connectors, but those are useless for this purpose and just expose unnecessary extra channels...

 

[acatala]

@Miska, this afternoon I have been playing with the Raspberry Pi 3 B+ again. I was trying to find out why the wireless interface was unavailable. Finally I have disabled and enabled back the interface and it started working. After that I have configured it.

 

The NAA now worked wireless and the sound quality has improved. Now there are very very few pops (almost no pops). My buffer configuration was set to 0 ms (default). I don't know if setting 50 or 100 ms would be better.

 

The NAA is very close to the AP, less then 2 feet, so the signal strength is high. I need to test the wireless link reliability, but definitely the Raspberry Pi 3 B+ as NAA must work wirelessly.

 

By the way, I was streaming in DSD128 format and the Raspberry Pi 3 B+ running Diet Pi.

 

Definitely I will need another NAA if I want to go wired. I find interesting the UP Bridge that you recommend .

[asdf1000]

23 minutes ago, acatala said:

I find interesting the UP Bridge that you recommend

 

I have the brilliant Jussi recommended Up Board Gateway (they've given it a new name now) running as NAA - works brilliantly. 

 

https://up-shop.org/home/81-up-gws01w4g-memory32g-emmc-boardwo-vesa-plate.html

 

It is very low in power consumption... I can power it with a 5Vdc 900mA USB3.0 port (just non bus powered USB DAC and ethernet connected, no other devices). For critical listening I can take it 'off the grid' with my 5Vdc 1A USB powerbank and this DC power cable:

 

https://www.lindy.com.au/usb-to-dc-cable-2-1mm-inner-5-5mm-outer-1-5m

 

I haven't tried wireless though - I use it wired.

 

There's a WiFi antenna connection on the UpBoard Gateway case but I don't know what accessories are needed for that.

 

I may try wireless (via USB adapter) this weekend, just out of curiosity. I'm running DietPi x86_64 version on my Up Board Gateway (installed on the internal eMMC but boots to ramdisk) and it may allow USB-WiFi adapter. I'll find out.

 

Of course for simple wired connection, you can use Jussi's USB bootable images (either the standalone NAA image or HQPe image works fine as NAA too).

 

There's no shared USB and ethernet bus power issues of the Pi'3 here - PCM768kHz and DSD512 is no issue with the Up Board Gateway.

[diecaster]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

I have the brilliant Jussi recommended Up Board Gateway (they've given it a new name now) running as NAA - works brilliantly. 

 

https://up-shop.org/home/81-up-gws01w4g-memory32g-emmc-boardwo-vesa-plate.html

 

It is very low in power consumption... I can power it with a 5Vdc 900mA USB3.0 port (just non bus powered USB DAC and ethernet connected, no other devices). For critical listening I can take it 'off the grid' with my 5Vdc 1A USB powerbank and this DC power cable:

 

https://www.lindy.com.au/usb-to-dc-cable-2-1mm-inner-5-5mm-outer-1-5m

 

I haven't tried wireless though - I use it wired.

 

There's a WiFi antenna connection on the UpBoard Gateway case but I don't know what accessories are needed for that.

 

I may try wireless (via USB adapter) this weekend, just out of curiosity. I'm running DietPi x86_64 version on my Up Board Gateway (installed on the internal eMMC but boots to ramdisk) and it may allow USB-WiFi adapter. I'll find out.

 

Of course for simple wired connection, you can use Jussi's USB bootable images (either the standalone NAA image or HQPe image works fine as NAA too).

 

There's no shared USB and ethernet bus power issues of the Pi'3 here - PCM768kHz and DSD512 is no issue with the Up Board Gateway.

 

Have you compared the Up Board Gateway to something like the ultraRendu?

[asdf1000]

23 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

Have you compared the Up Board Gateway to something like the ultraRendu?

 

Ya, it’s very good for the price. It won’t replace my Rendu in my main setup for critical listening but the gap (to my ears, not expertise) isn’t as large as the price difference, that’s for sure (to my ears).  The Rendu is a little bit smoother , warmer for me. I prefer tbe Rendu over longer listening sessions.

 

It’s incredibly low power consuming (therefore I assume low noise generating). Happily powered by 5Vdc 900mA. 

[acatala]

6 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

Have you compared the Up Board Gateway to something like the ultraRendu?

 

At the first glance, there is an obvious difference: Up Board costs $189 and ultraRendu costs $875. Besides, I have not an oscilloscope in my ears. I am having a hard time to justify the difference in price.