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Reference 2 Channel Speaker Recommendations


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it sounds like you vary the length of time on each speaker from a passage, up to a track and including extended listening time

 

are all these known by brand, or have you made any attempt to use blinded tests?

 

also, a technique some have used is described in another thread, and uses a different speaker (or amp) in each channel (pre-amp set to mono) - I think we should call this the "The Jud"

 

I've done it by walking back and forth from one speaker to another (but I use panels, which make stand up listening easy)

 

yes it was me that noted your avatar, as a Fan of the Band it stood out for me

 

Unfortunately no blind test. I'd know the difference in a second as it relates to the speakers and amps. Those differences are so profound there's no question as to which mfg it is. With them it comes down to what the differences actually are. What are the characteristics that define that company and model, and is it what I want to listen to. When it comes to the cabling, or even the DAC, endpoint devices, server software or upsampling then a blind test would make a difference. The subtleties between those choices are sometimes so minute that I wouldn't know without more extensive listening what the sound signature was.

 

Unfortunately the DPA-1 can not be set to mono. I would have to audition the mono version of that amp as they are separate. The Benchmark has the ability to be mono or stereo, another great feature, so I could do it with that. That's a great recommendation I'll use in the future.

 

I do also walk around, and I'll go right up in front of one speaker and listen intently.

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I agree the large differences between most speakers, and it's very difficult to set them up for blind testing.

 

I did find a lot of similarity between Maggie 3.7 and 1.7 on some material.

 

Right, good point. When comparing speakers from the same mfg a blind test can be more helpful. I listened to the 3.7i and 1.7i in the store. The rooms were different in size, but I found the soundstage on the 3.7i to be much bigger than the 1.7i. It could have just been the room. The sound signature was the same however. Those are planar and the difference may not be as noticeable when you're listening to a speaker line where additional drivers or a different technology is added.

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Right, good point. When comparing speakers from the same mfg a blind test can be more helpful. I listened to the 3.7i and 1.7i in the store. The rooms were different in size, but I found the soundstage on the 3.7i to be much bigger than the 1.7i. It could have just been the room. The sound signature was the same however. Those are planar and the difference may not be as noticeable when you're listening to a speaker line where additional drivers or a different technology is added.

My experience with the Magneplanars is quite different, as I find the true ribbon tweeter of the 3.7i to sound significantly more open, airy, and effortless in its high frequency presentation than the lower models with a quasi-ribbon tweeter. Not at all a subtle difference particularly when listening to acoustic jazz with well recorded cymbals.

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My experience with the Magneplanars is quite different, as I find the true ribbon tweeter of the 3.7i to sound significantly more open, airy, and effortless in its high frequency presentation than the lower models with a quasi-ribbon tweeter. Not at all a subtle difference particularly when listening to acoustic jazz with well recorded cymbals.

Not sure where our differences lie. I said "I found the soundstage on the 3.7i to be much bigger than the 1.7i" which sounds similar to you stating it is "more open, airy and effortless". That tells me it wasn't the rooms I was listening that influenced the differences I heard.

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Not sure where our differences lie. I said "I found the soundstage on the 3.7i to be much bigger than the 1.7i" which sounds similar to you stating it is "more open, airy and effortless". That tells me it wasn't the rooms I was listening that influenced the differences I heard.

I didn't intend to question your experience or perception, rather just tried (but apparently not very effectively) to explain the differences I heard. With the true ribbon tweeter models in the Magnepan line I hear a much more refined and subtle quality to their high frequency reproduction, with a degree of shimmer and decay which performs on an entirely different level than their quasi-ribbon designs.

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I didn't intend to question your experience or perception, rather just tried (but apparently not very effectively) to explain the differences I heard. With the true ribbon tweeter models in the Magnepan line I hear a much more refined and subtle quality to their high frequency reproduction, with a degree of shimmer and decay which performs on an entirely different level than their quasi-ribbon designs.

You explained it better than I could.

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I hadn't realized you'd listened to the 3.7i's (tho maybe I missed it above). I'm now curious of your listening impressions of them vs. others you head, such as the Persona

 

 

also, if the thread title can be changed, then "under $10,000" could be added to help others find this thread easily - (we have $2,500 and $6,000 threads already)

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I hadn't realized you'd listened to the 3.7i's (tho maybe I missed it above). I'm now curious of your listening impressions of them vs. others you head, such as the Persona

 

 

also, if the thread title can be changed, then "under $10,000" could be added to help others find this thread easily - (we have $2,500 and $6,000 threads already)

I very briefly shared my experience with the Maggies in my first post. I listened to them alongside the Aerial 7T and B&W 802D. The equipment used to play and drive everything but the Maggies was Ayre. If I had the space they need I would have brought them home to audition. There's also the wife factor because they're big speakers. For the money they are a great value. What I liked most was how big the soundstage became without making thing sound out of proportion. By contrast, when I listened to Martin Logins I didn't get that exact sense of balance. Vocals sounded like they were coming from a person much bigger and more ominous than possible. To be fair I didn't give the Logans more than a two song listen.

 

But the Maggies, and the 3.7i specifically, is a unique speaker and it offered that difference I was looking for. I think if you put it side by side blind with any other speaker and you'd know which one it is. I don't know how well it does producing low end but it's rated at 35hz and they do offer assistance based on room size. The sensitivity at 86 will need a little juice. The imaging with them was very good, especially considering the size of the sound stage. The detail and clarity was very good as well. Not quite to the level of the Personas, but still very, very good. Those opinions are based on listening to them in a dedicated listening area, with very good amps at a local audio store. I listened to multiple tracks from my usual list, some a few times, rotating between the Aerial, Maggies and B&W. I stopped short of putting on vinyl, which I planned on, because I ran out of time. Of the three the 3.7i stood out, and again I already had the B&W "sound" and those are $20k, so that wasn't an option.

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On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 2:08 PM, ecrimjr said:

I disagree regarding the comment on spending the money on an amplifier. Which is not to say they aren't important but making sure your speakers have the transparency to her changes up stream is a priority.

I've had the chance to do several demos between the new B&W 800 series speakers and the Persona line. These were for customers. The personas are beautiful and sound detailed. Bass is nice and tight. The last demo was for a Canadian couple that wanted to her the personas we have the 3f , 5 f and 7 f in the store. For B&W we have the new 805 3D and the 802 D3 .They and I were blown away by the B&Ws. Greater clarity, deeper and cleaner bass and just more involving in the very way. The upgrades made to the new line are not judge st cosmetic but very substantive and well worth a listen. They are a legitimate sign I ant even improvement over every previous B&W speaker and I think they have solved some of the things they have been criticized for the past. I also love Maggie's and I would suggest the 1.7s would be worth listening to as well. Of the electronics the preamp is ultimately more important than the amp. It needs to be s transparent as possible.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

I have heard the 800 D3's, 802 D3's, 803 D3's and 804 D3. I felt they were all stunning. Just amazing speakers. I listened to the 804' D3 and Wilson Yvette side by side. The Wilsons did go deeper in bass but the cohesiveness and clarity of the B&W along with their balance was amazing. I felt the 804 D3 was just a better designed speaker and cheaper too.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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On 3/11/2017 at 7:58 AM, Johnseye said:

 

Did you get the WE cable?

Finally got the cable and made up two bi-wired runs for my Sonus Fabers. I've had two extended listening sessions, and I can see why they coined the phrase "natural sound". That's exactly how I would describe my impressions of the cable. Everything seems to sound a bit more natural and real. These cables have that as an edge over my existing (and not cheap) speaker cables. For the $163.00 I paid, including shipping, for the Western Electric cable, I'm thrilled with the performance. I did not hear any diminishing of high frequencies with the cable in my system, and I was listening very carefully to see if that happened.

 

JC

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If people ask me about Maggies and there has not been a pair I have heard that I have ever liked at all. In fact, two years ago, I heard a pair at a dealer. He was playing a  high res song I know well and the song sounded off as there were some of the harmonics missing.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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10 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Finally got the cable and made up two bi-wired runs for my Sonus Fabers. I've had two extended listening sessions, and I can see why they coined the phrase "natural sound". That's exactly how I would describe my impressions of the cable. Everything seems to sound a bit more natural and real. These cables have that as an edge over my existing (and not cheap) speaker cables. For the $163.00 I paid, including shipping, for the Western Electric cable, I'm thrilled with the performance. I did not hear any diminishing of high frequencies with the cable in my system, and I was listening very carefully to see if that happened.

 

JC

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I got a chance to listen to a pair of Fabers side by side with the Sopras.  Same amp, a McIntosh.  A smoother, flatter sound than the Sopras, a lot like my B&Ws.  I think you hit it with "natural".  Very organic.  The WE cables are a good match for those speakers.  If you run tubes or a McIntosh SS I think that would match up nicely as well.

 

I think a lot in this hobby depends on how you match up your components, whether they be speakers, amp or cables.  Mixing different sounds can have an unappealing effect while combining like sound characteristics can have a great effect.  I'm sure a good blend can be found, but if someone's looking for natural and relaxed then why introduce anything that's mechanical and forward.  I say mechanical in the best way possible, as I look for a term to describe that other sound I hear.  After all these are musicians playing instruments, which are mechanical in nature.  They aren't making music with a tree branch and a pile of dirt.

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9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I got a chance to listen to a pair of Fabers side by side with the Sopras.  Same amp, a McIntosh.  A smoother, flatter sound than the Sopras, a lot like my B&Ws.  I think you hit it with "natural".  Very organic.  The WE cables are a good match for those speakers.  If you run tubes or a McIntosh SS I think that would match up nicely as well.

 

I think a lot in this hobby depends on how you match up your components, whether they be speakers, amp or cables.  Mixing different sounds can have an unappealing effect while combining like sound characteristics can have a great effect.  I'm sure a good blend can be found, but if someone's looking for natural and relaxed then why introduce anything that's mechanical and forward.  I say mechanical in the best way possible, as I look for a term to describe that other sound I hear.  After all these are musicians playing instruments, which are mechanical in nature.  They aren't making music with a tree branch and a pile of dirt.

 

Just remember that Mac, S-F, and Audio Research are from the same company. So, you would think that SF and Mac would play well together.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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1 minute ago, botrytis said:

 

Just remember that Mac, S-F, and Audio Research are from the same company. So, you would think that SF and Mac would play well together.

They don't.  It's just a holding company and it's fairly recent considering.  Personally, I never understood the Mac thing.  It's ok gear to my ears, but there are so many other products that sound better.  More open etc... Honestly, I know a few Mac dealers who have it only because it sells good, but they don't own one single piece and never have ;).....AR is very good stuff and sounds good on most anything.  It's built to drive most speakers out there.  I like a few more companies like Aesthetix's as much if not better for the similar price points, but that's just me.   Never been fan of the newer SF speakers. I loved the older stuff.  Very romantic, but not that the sound has changed, it's not as dynamic as some other gear and the staging has always seemed a bit off no matter where I've heard it. Again, this is just my deal and I'm sure those of you who have SF speaker or Mac amps are in love and that's what it's all about.  

 

It always comes down to synergy and that's why I finally stopped chasing my tail and bought systems.  Then my upgrades usually end up being within that eco system if you would.  It's worked for the first time in my life. I'm rarely looking for the next big thing.  

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12 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

They don't.  It's just a holding company and it's fairly recent considering.  Personally, I never understood the Mac thing.  It's ok gear to my ears, but there are so many other products that sound better.  More open etc... Honestly, I know a few Mac dealers who have it only because it sells good, but they don't own one single piece and never have ;).....AR is very good stuff and sounds good on most anything.  It's built to drive most speakers out there.  I like a few more companies like Aesthetix's as much if not better for the similar price points, but that's just me.   Never been fan of the newer SF speakers. I loved the older stuff.  Very romantic, but not that the sound has changed, it's not as dynamic as some other gear and the staging has always seemed a bit off no matter where I've heard it. Again, this is just my deal and I'm sure those of you who have SF speaker or Mac amps are in love and that's what it's all about.  

 

It always comes down to synergy and that's why I finally stopped chasing my tail and bought systems.  Then my upgrades usually end up being within that eco system if you would.  It's worked for the first time in my life. I'm rarely looking for the next big thing.  

 

I actually did talk to one of the S-F designers and they use both Mac and AR during the design and testing of their speakers. So yes, they are designed to work together.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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7 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

I actually did talk to one of the S-F designers and they use both Mac and AR during the design and testing of their speakers. So yes, they are designed to work together.

I get the they use both amps etc...., but the amps are totally different amps. My personal though as I stated above is that Mac just isn't one of the great tube amps sound wise.  Built like a tank and has a great name.  I bought my second system from Nick Sr who's brother helped start Mac and then Tributaries.  My grew up in Binghamton with the guys and as a kid I got to see the factory over on Front street. I'm supposed to like their gear, but I don't.  I thin Jadis, AR, CJ and many others over the years were much much better.  Maybe not a pretty, but better sounding. Again, that's just my set of ears.  

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Well I've been listening to the Felix Carbon VIIs for several days now. My 845 SET finally sounds like I thought it should: holographic, detailed, wide and harmonically rich. I had to pull them pretty far from my walls to defeat some bad bass gain, but these are a keeper IMO. 

 

Just one caveat: this performance really relies on my system and the recording. Replacing my Audio Sensibility Testament speaker cables (7N OCC, Teflon, dampened) with cheap OFC cables from Amazon crushes the soundstage and eliminates some micro-detail. Had to upgrade all of my tubes. My 5V battery died so I had to use a LPS to run my PPS USB card and sub in my 110V i2s interface which causes a reduction of air/space and overall more hash. A Mapleshade recording displays a huge level of spatial detail, whereas many of my orchestra and ensemble DSDs are all mic'd up like crazy and have no soundstage to speak of. Bluesound Node 2 was no competition against my DAC and dedicated audio PC. Carpet and reflection points had to be treated to make any speakers listenable. A pair of GIK 4A diffuser panels on the front wall to fix unacceptable amounts of glare...and it honestly needs more. Audio circuit with nothing but amp and dac on it using a Furutech outlet. DAC loses clarity without the LessLoss cable.

 

The only part of my system which I'm not sure has had an impact was a Mapleshade isolation setup (Mapleshade footers and isoblocks with a 3" maple butcher block) for my 845. It did eliminate microphonic noise from footfalls but moving that heavy space heater called an amp and disturbing the footers to test it is not very appealing...

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21 minutes ago, fbee said:

Maggies shouldn t sound "without harmonics". Has there been something wrong in the setup?

 

Quite some insights can be found here:

 

THE MAGIC IN 2-CHANNEL SOUND REPRODUCTION - WHY IS IT SO RARELY HEARD?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/The_Magic/The Magic in-Edit-SL.pdf

 

The man has been selling Maggies for 25+ years, He swears by them. So, I can't tell you. Just an observation.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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Aren´t missing harmonics rather a malfuction than a flavour?

 

Just talking about overtones in instruments and voices.

Of course, you don't want your system to add harmonics to the signal path (except, if  you prefere listenung to tube amps)

 

 

 

 

 

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