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microRendu and MQA


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Will the microRendu pass MQA encoded music? Tidal now has a "Master" section with about 100 MQA encoded albums, sound great, tighter base, cleaner, wide and deep sound stage. Right now.

iMac-- Tidal--Uptone USB regen--Meridian Explorer 2-- Schiit Jotunheim--balanced HiFiMan mod "X"

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No reason why it should not. Assuming you use LMS tidal plugin or Roon server wth Tidal. Only if you use NAA then it will change datastream unless there is capability for NAA to recognise MQA and then not dobthe usual upslampling/filters etc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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"Master Quality" Audio sort of reminds me of iTunes saying "CD Quality" downloads:) Has anyone compared MQA to up sampling to the same MQA rate or up sampling to DSD?

 

Anyway, MQA streaming is supported because we support FLAC. MQA decoding is not supported. The best place IMO to support MQA decoding is at the server or DAC allowing us to do what we do best between the two.

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"Master Quality" Audio sort of reminds me of iTunes saying "CD Quality" downloads:) Has anyone compared MQA to up sampling to the same MQA rate or up sampling to DSD?

 

Anyway, MQA streaming is supported because we support FLAC. MQA decoding is not supported. The best place IMO to support MQA decoding is at the server or DAC allowing us to do what we do best between the two.

 

Kudos for stating your position clearly.

 

MQA has clearly decided, for business reasons - also clearly, driven by Tidal - to license a SW decoder that does a partial unfold of their origami, to double the container sample rate. This tops out at 88.2 or 96, and is NOT full MQA decoding in SW. However, it IS a step up in SQ, and enables access to high-er resolution than was ever possible before with Tidal.

 

This has been licensed by Tidal, Audirvana, not sure who else.

 

Having invested $$$ in a non-MQA DAC I really like, I take the opposite view - you guys should license this, because a large fraction of your customers are like me.

 

Now, whether it makes business sense, is it cost-effective, will it even run on your HW - these are your decisions. And I respect your right to make them.

 

But as someone who has been eyeing an mR for a while, MQA on Tidal has changed my parameters. My next NAA/endpoint/renderer needs to do MQA decoding.

 

Not criticizing or judging - just providing customer input.

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Kudos for stating your position clearly.

 

MQA has clearly decided, for business reasons - also clearly, driven by Tidal - to license a SW decoder that does a partial unfold of their origami, to double the container sample rate. This tops out at 88.2 or 96, and is NOT full MQA decoding in SW. However, it IS a step up in SQ, and enables access to high-er resolution than was ever possible before with Tidal.

 

This has been licensed by Tidal, Audirvana, not sure who else.

 

Having invested $$$ in a non-MQA DAC I really like, I take the opposite view - you guys should license this, because a large fraction of your customers are like me.

 

Now, whether it makes business sense, is it cost-effective, will it even run on your HW - these are your decisions. And I respect your right to make them.

 

But as someone who has been eyeing an mR for a while, MQA on Tidal has changed my parameters. My next NAA/endpoint/renderer needs to do MQA decoding.

 

Not criticizing or judging - just providing customer input.

 

There is currently support for play through to devices that support it and there will be support via music player / servers that will decode it for devices that do not.

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Kudos for stating your position clearly.

 

MQA has clearly decided, for business reasons - also clearly, driven by Tidal - to license a SW decoder that does a partial unfold of their origami, to double the container sample rate. This tops out at 88.2 or 96, and is NOT full MQA decoding in SW. However, it IS a step up in SQ, and enables access to high-er resolution than was ever possible before with Tidal.

 

This has been licensed by Tidal, Audirvana, not sure who else.

 

Having invested $$$ in a non-MQA DAC I really like, I take the opposite view - you guys should license this, because a large fraction of your customers are like me.

 

Now, whether it makes business sense, is it cost-effective, will it even run on your HW - these are your decisions. And I respect your right to make them.

 

But as someone who has been eyeing an mR for a while, MQA on Tidal has changed my parameters. My next NAA/endpoint/renderer needs to do MQA decoding.

 

Not criticizing or judging - just providing customer input.

 

I take the opposite view. I won't support any component or service that licenses MQA on principle of my non support of DRM.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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@jesus

 

I've tried playing Tidal Master streaming in 2 different configurations.

 

1. Linn Kazoo (4.10.173) on Windows 10 PC -> MicroRendu (MPD/DLNA w BubbleUPnPServer running) -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled).

2. Tidal Desktop (MQA Passthrough) -> USB cable -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled)

 

In Configuration 1, MyTek Brooklyn can not detect MQA but displays 44.1KHz/16 bit all the time.In Configuration 2, MyTek Brooklyn MQA lights up right away and displays either 88.2KHz/24 Bit or 96KHz/24 Bit.

There are no options to set Linn Kazoo or Openhome renderer to behave differently on MQA stream.

What might be misconfigured to cause the MQA stream not to be detected in Configuration 1? Any help will be much appreciated.

 

Here is the DAC Diagnostics:

DAC description: Brooklyn DAC 25ce:001f

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Mytek Digital Brooklyn DAC at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1.2, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 63

Momentary freq = 44094 Hz (0x5.8300)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 2

Altset 2

Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

 

Capture:

Status: Stop

Interface 1

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 4

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 2

Format: S32_LE DSD_U32_BE

Channels: 8

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 3

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 8

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 4

Format: SPECIAL

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 usaccess: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 44100 (44100/1)

period_size: 5513

buffer_size: 22050amixer: Mixer hw:0 load error: Broken pipe

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@jesus

 

I've tried playing Tidal Master streaming in 2 different configurations.

 

1. Linn Kazoo (4.10.173) on Windows 10 PC -> MicroRendu (MPD/DLNA w BubbleUPnPServer running) -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled).

2. Tidal Desktop (MQA Passthrough) -> USB cable -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled)

 

In Configuration 1, MyTek Brooklyn can not detect MQA but displays 44.1KHz/16 bit all the time.In Configuration 2, MyTek Brooklyn MQA lights up right away and displays either 88.2KHz/24 Bit or 96KHz/24 Bit.

There are no options to set Linn Kazoo or Openhome renderer to behave differently on MQA stream.

What might be misconfigured to cause the MQA stream not to be detected in Configuration 1? Any help will be much appreciated.

 

Here is the DAC Diagnostics:

DAC description: Brooklyn DAC 25ce:001f

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Mytek Digital Brooklyn DAC at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1.2, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 63

Momentary freq = 44094 Hz (0x5.8300)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 2

Altset 2

Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

 

Capture:

Status: Stop

Interface 1

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 4

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 2

Format: S32_LE DSD_U32_BE

Channels: 8

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 3

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 8

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 4

Format: SPECIAL

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 usaccess: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 44100 (44100/1)

period_size: 5513

buffer_size: 22050amixer: Mixer hw:0 load error: Broken pipe

 

No clue what is going on. It's just a flac file so I don't see what the issue could be except maybe your not streaming a MQA embedded file. Can you tell which ones are MQA in Kazoo?

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N

No reason why it should not. Assuming you use LMS tidal plugin or Roon server wth Tidal. Only if you use NAA then it will change datastream unless there is capability for NAA to recognise MQA and then not dobthe usual upslampling/filters etc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HQPlayer can be set to not upsample at all. This should work. However, there's no way to not upsample MQA but upsample everything else. If playing an MQA file directly on HQP, HQP can recognize this by metadata and Miska could add a feature to leave the file untouched in such case. But if streamed by Roon, the metadata is lost and your only option is to never upsample.

 

 

just thought of one workaround - not great but better than fiddling with HQP settings all the time: when you want to play an MQA file, switch the microRendu to RoonReady and set a speaker in Roon to that. Then play Roon to the RoonReady mR. You must defeat volume to not change the file obviously. This is the slickest I can think of. If controlling from an iPad, you can put a shortcut on your apps to the mR app switch.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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I use Tidal desktop to create a playlist by adding some of the albums under Master listing. Then, played the same playlist via Tidal desktop app to make sure they are recognized as MQA encoded. Then, I swapped out the dirnect USB connection with microRendu and played the same playlist via Linn Kazoo. But, now MQA is not detected.

 

Also, I played the downloaded MQA files from 2L using JRiver with output format set Original for the microRendu. Those files are not not recognized as MQA encoded either. They are recognized as MQA encoded once I swap out microRendu with direct USB connection to MyTeK Brooklyn.

 

I am not sure what might cause this discrepancy. It might be as simple as configuration. But, please help.

 

Thanks and regards

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I use Tidal desktop to create a playlist by adding some of the albums under Master listing. Then, played the same playlist via Tidal desktop app to make sure they are recognized as MQA encoded. Then, I swapped out the dirnect USB connection with microRendu and played the same playlist via Linn Kazoo. But, now MQA is not detected.

 

Also, I played the downloaded MQA files from 2L using JRiver with output format set Original for the microRendu. Those files are not not recognized as MQA encoded either. They are recognized as MQA encoded once I swap out microRendu with direct USB connection to MyTeK Brooklyn.

 

I am not sure what might cause this discrepancy. It might be as simple as configuration. But, please help.

 

Thanks and regards

 

The DLNA setup for JRiver is found here:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-digital-living-network-alliance-mpd-output-mode-27265/

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According to Hans' Youtube video (advance to 12:13 minutes in the video) he was advised my Merdian that MQA did not use DRM.

 

 

There seems to be a segment of folks here on CA and on other audiophile forums who have convinced themselves that MQA == DRM. The only thing I could say is - do your own research. The facts do not support that conclusion.

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There seems to be a segment of folks here on CA and on other audiophile forums who have convinced themselves that MQA == DRM. The only thing I could say is - do your own research. The facts do not support that conclusion.

 

This would depend on how you define DRM. MQA encoded files deliver below CD quality who played back without MQA decoding, and MQA decoding is closed source requiring a licensed decoder only available in certain products. Because it is closed source, if you purchase MQA files, and you do not have an MQA decoder, you cannot access the content (excepting with sound quality loss). Sounds like DRM to me...

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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This would depend on how you define DRM. MQA encoded files deliver below CD quality who played back without MQA decoding, and MQA decoding is closed source requiring a licensed decoder only available in certain products. Because it is closed source, if you purchase MQA files, and you do not have an MQA decoder, you cannot access the content (excepting with sound quality loss). Sounds like DRM to me...

 

I think it would not be a good idea to buy MQA files. MQA is a fig leaf for the music industry. It gives them a way to offer, thru streaming, something like hi-res and do it using something like DRM. They can say that they are offering listeners a true hi-res experience without exposing the real high resolution master file to the stream of commerce where it would certainly be abused. They learned their lesson after the file sharing debacle and will not make that mistake again. They will never offer a real hi-res file of any commercially viable music. Maybe classical music recorded in an old church in Norway but not any artist that they can count on to sell in large numbers.

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I think it would not be a good idea to buy MQA files. MQA is a fig leaf for the music industry. It gives them a way to offer, thru streaming, something like hi-res and do it using something like DRM. They can say that they are offering listeners a true hi-res experience without exposing the real high resolution master file to the stream of commerce where it would certainly be abused. They learned their lesson after the file sharing debacle and will not make that mistake again. They will never offer a real hi-res file of any commercially viable music. Maybe classical music recorded in an old church in Norway but not any artist that they can count on to sell in large numbers.

 

What! There already are hi res downloads available of lots of commercially viable music with no DRM.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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It appears to me that there are two things in parallel going on here:

 

- Hi-rez STREAMING - this is a non-existent or rapidly declining problem (at least where most of the revenue is generated US, Western Europe, etc). Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, the Cable/Internet providers are already delivering much higher bandwidth content without piracy/abuse so I don't think that bandwidth/piracy while STREAMING are the big concerns for studios. MQA's value add in this context seems to be mainly the "origami" stuff i.e. folding/unfolding.

 

- Hi-rez DOWNLOADS; this is what I think studios are concerned about - giving up the "crown jewels" as someone from MQA had described it. Once they make a high quality master in hi-rez available for download, they have nothing more to peddle later. For this, MQA could help (not currently but after widespread adoption if that ever happens) by adding DRM/copy protection.

 

- For consumers, MQA's value add seems to be about de-smearing of the original ADC and downstream DAC. No clear A/B of this exists or where an improvement/degradation is perceived, we can't tell whether it's because of a new master or because of the MQA coding/de-coding. Mansr's data from another thread, however, clearly shows something amiss about "improved" fidelity.

 

Happy to be corrected if you have other thoughts about the motivation in this for the studios (though it's only Warner right now).

 

What! There already are hi res downloads available of lots of commercially viable music with no DRM.
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- Hi-rez STREAMING - this is a non-existent or rapidly declining problem (at least where most of the revenue is generated US, Western Europe, etc). Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, the Cable/Internet providers are already delivering much higher bandwidth content without piracy/abuse so I don't think that bandwidth/piracy while STREAMING are the big concerns for studios. MQA's value add in this context seems to be mainly the "origami" stuff i.e. folding/unfolding.

Right.

 

- Hi-rez DOWNLOADS; this is what I think studios are concerned about - giving up the "crown jewels" as someone from MQA had described it. Once they make a high quality master in hi-rez available for download, they have nothing more to peddle later. For this, MQA could help (not currently but after widespread adoption if that ever happens) by adding DRM/copy protection.

High res downloads are already available. They might be eyeing this as a way to incentivize people to repurchase as they did with CDs. I might buy a few albums (like Joni Mitchell's "Blue") but they won't be many, not anymore, unless streaming disappears from the face of the earth.

 

 

 

No clear A/B of this exists or where an improvement/degradation is perceived, we can't tell whether it's because of a new master or because of the MQA coding/de-coding. Mansr's data from another thread, however, clearly shows something amiss about "improved" fidelity.
I don't think the technology per-se is likely to improve the sound of recordings. However, if MQA results in mastering people paying more attention to careful mastering, then by all means.

NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono 

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono

Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul

system pics

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It appears to me that there are two things in parallel going on here:

 

- Hi-rez STREAMING - this is a non-existent or rapidly declining problem (at least where most of the revenue is generated US, Western Europe, etc). Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, the Cable/Internet providers are already delivering much higher bandwidth content without piracy/abuse so I don't think that bandwidth/piracy while STREAMING are the big concerns for studios. MQA's value add in this context seems to be mainly the "origami" stuff i.e. folding/unfolding.

 

- Hi-rez DOWNLOADS; this is what I think studios are concerned about - giving up the "crown jewels" as someone from MQA had described it. Once they make a high quality master in hi-rez available for download, they have nothing more to peddle later. For this, MQA could help (not currently but after widespread adoption if that ever happens) by adding DRM/copy protection.

 

- For consumers, MQA's value add seems to be about de-smearing of the original ADC and downstream DAC. No clear A/B of this exists or where an improvement/degradation is perceived, we can't tell whether it's because of a new master or because of the MQA coding/de-coding. Mansr's data from another thread, however, clearly shows something amiss about "improved" fidelity.

 

Happy to be corrected if you have other thoughts about the motivation in this for the studios (though it's only Warner right now).

 

I have no issue with DRM on subscription streaming. As long as the service exists, they'll provide software to decode it. If the service goes away, I'll no longer be paying so nothing will be lost. The trouble with DRM on downloads is that if the provider vanishes, you're left with unplayable content even though you've paid for it. This has happened several times already.

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You're absolutely right. I hope that the other streaming guys forget about MQA considering they have successful streaming models (Netflix, etc) that prove it can be done in a commercially feasible and an abuse free (almost) way. The studios can keep doing MQA for hi-res downloads if they want, especially if it prompts them to release better masters or re-master for streaming purposes than they otherwise would have; no one will buy the closed-format MQA stuff and it'll eventually die but leave behind a library of better masters in hi-res for streaming.

 

I have no issue with DRM on subscription streaming. As long as the service exists, they'll provide software to decode it. If the service goes away, I'll no longer be paying so nothing will be lost. The trouble with DRM on downloads is that if the provider vanishes, you're left with unplayable content even though you've paid for it. This has happened several times already.
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@jesus

 

I've tried playing Tidal Master streaming in 2 different configurations.

 

1. Linn Kazoo (4.10.173) on Windows 10 PC -> MicroRendu (MPD/DLNA w BubbleUPnPServer running) -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled).

2. Tidal Desktop (MQA Passthrough) -> USB cable -> MyTek Brooklyn (MQA enabled)

 

In Configuration 1, MyTek Brooklyn can not detect MQA but displays 44.1KHz/16 bit all the time.In Configuration 2, MyTek Brooklyn MQA lights up right away and displays either 88.2KHz/24 Bit or 96KHz/24 Bit.

There are no options to set Linn Kazoo or Openhome renderer to behave differently on MQA stream.

What might be misconfigured to cause the MQA stream not to be detected in Configuration 1? Any help will be much appreciated.

 

Here is the DAC Diagnostics:

DAC description: Brooklyn DAC 25ce:001f

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Mytek Digital Brooklyn DAC at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1.2, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 63

Momentary freq = 44094 Hz (0x5.8300)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 2

Altset 2

Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

 

Capture:

Status: Stop

Interface 1

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 4

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 2

Format: S32_LE DSD_U32_BE

Channels: 8

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 3

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 8

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us

Interface 1

Altset 4

Format: SPECIAL

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 1 IN (ASYNC)

Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 usaccess: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 44100 (44100/1)

period_size: 5513

buffer_size: 22050amixer: Mixer hw:0 load error: Broken pipe

 

I also have a similar problem. I created a Master playlist in Tidal PC desktop app and then I played it by streaming it from bubbleupnp to Jplaystreamer on my PC connected via USB to my brooklyn dac but it only shows as a flac 16bit 44.1khz file.

 

I sent an email to bubbleupnp developers to ask them about MQA support but no answer till now

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

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