Norton Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Following on from advice in a previous thread, I downloaded a demo copy of Vinyl Studio, hooked up my pre amp (with phono) tape out to PC motherboard audio in and, perhaps surprisingly to me, got not half bad results, although in the opposite of the old cliche, I was certainly aware of a veil descending on the music at replay compared to the original LP. I'm now looking to buy an ADC to get the best possible results from vinyl rips via what I think of as a moderately high end system. I'm really looking for the most cost effective solution, whether that means paying a few hundred or a few thousand for an ADC. 24/96 as a minimum, higher res PCM or DSD preferred. What would you recommend? From reading so far, I get the impression that there may be less correlation between price and performance among ADCs compared to some other components. Ta. Link to comment
android Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'm using 2 ADCs right now. For ripping vinyl, I've got a AudioTechnica LP120 USB that has a built in 48/16. After ripping I run a high pass filter at 20Hz and normalize to -1 dB. If the album is noisy, I'll do a NR pass and fix individual pops and clicks. I'm using Audacity which works pretty good for free. I save back out as 48/16 flac and V0 MP3. I also a ADC called a Roland UA-1G that is 96/24 I am using to rip 1/4" reel to reel. In theory, I could hook that up to my TT and bypass its internal ADC, but I don't really see the need. They don't make them anymore, but I bought one on eBay for $50. There are Windows 10 and back drivers for it. Also, I can't compare to using a computer sound card because I figured they would be noisy being inside the computer and mine is only low quality ADC anyway. Link to comment
jzahr Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Does it have to be a usb audio interface? There are many exellent portable digital recorders equipped with line inputs which you can connect to your phono preamp, from Tascam, Zoom, M-Audio and Sony, among others. These record usually to SD cards, but can also connect to a PC for usb transfer via cable. The sony pcm D-100 even records to DSD (in adition to all the common pcm rates). This (and many others as well) has also suppossedly good built-in microphones in case you want to record a musician friend, so use is not limited to record vinyl. I'm sure you could find good units in price range fron 100 to 1000 us dolars. Regards Jorge Sent from my E2303 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Link to comment
mansr Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 RME and Tascam seem to get generally favourable reviews. Both have models in the $500 vicinity. Beware, however, that if ASIO drivers are required, Audacity may have limited functionality. For example, with the Tascam UH-7000, the AES/SPDIF interfaces are inaccessible. Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Having spent the last 15 years or so capturing vinyl, I've moved through the pro-sumer field (M-Audio, Apogee Duet) and recently got a great deal on an Antelope Audio Pure2. My motivation was the acquisition of a Schiit Yggdrasil. It seemed like that "multibit magic" just didn't happen on my digital vinyl captures until I got the Pure2. I'm more than willing to admit that $2k (I paid a little less) is likely absurd to most people for something that is clearly a hobby. But with the Pure2, the results co-mingle with the rest of my digital library (mostly ripped CDs) and I no longer get that "meh" feeling when one of the vinyl captures comes on. The Pure2 has a very solid clock and can be used as the primary word clock source in a studio environment. One of the counterintuitive things I've discovered is that with any ADC I've used, 96kHz always sounds better than 176.4 or 192. The quality of those top sample rates improved quite a bit with the Pure2, but 96kHz is still king (haven't tried 88.2kHz). Link to comment
barrows Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Perhaps more $ than you want to spend, but Ayre makes a superb ADC. John Atkinson could not tell the difference between the vinyl and the rip in a very high end system context. Perhaps this would be a good component to share amongst some audiophile friends? SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Maldur Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 DSD capable interface for computer: RME ADI-2 Pro. I went to computerless route with Tascam DA-3000, modded in and outs, no electrolyts in signal path. RME: https://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2-pro.php Tascam: http://tascam.com/product/da-3000/ Sorry, english is not my native language. Fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts. Link to comment
GUTB Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I found an amazing item on eBay last night, a USB audio interface with i2s, AES and SPDIF-3 AND WCLOCK!! And you can chose between Amanero or XMOS. Needless to say I bought it instantly. http://m.ebay.com/itm/Digital-interface-XMOS-USB-or-Amanero-USB-Module-Supports-DSD-R98-/122209728498?nav=SEARCH Sent from my LG-H820 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Link to comment
cjf Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Another option to look at would be the Benchmark ADC1-USB (at about $1800) which seems to have many good reviews. I dont own one but have considered it on multiple occasions, in addition to the Ayre previously mentioned. https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-adc1-usb-audio-converter I've read a few reports that the ultimate setup is using one of these boxes in combination with the Tascam DA-3000 mentioned earlier. This setup allows you to do AD conversion via the higher end/better quality units like the Benchmark/Ayre but with the added bonus of recording straight to Compact Flash within the Tascam. Doing it this way allows one to bypass the computer hardware/software inter dependencies that are present when using these products by themselves (ie..needing to use third party software on the PC to make a listen-able file). Certainly not cheap but for around $3K total assuming the use of the Benchmark product and the Tascam you could have a very good setup that would be hard to beat. My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
bmoura Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Another options is the excellent Playback Design Pinot ADC. Listeners at AXPONA - including Michael Bishop from 5/4 Productions, Chad Kassem from Acoustic Sounds and David Robinson from Positive Feedback - had a hard time telling its DSD 256 recordings from the Analog original. The output of the PR99 was sent to the analog input of the Playback Designs Pinot A/D, where it was converted on the fly to Quad DSD as the output format. The Quad DSD output was sent to the Merlot DSD DAC's digital input, where it was converted from Quad DSD back into analog, and played back via the IPS-3/NOLA system. The results were, in a word, outstanding! The A/B comparison of the tape original vs. the Quad DSD playback showed that Quad DSD was able to deliver the master tape experience itself. A separate demo was also done using the Revox B791 turntable with Sonus Blue-Gold via the Simaudio 310LP phono preamp to the Pinto. The results were amazing: The Quad DSD playback was actually chosen as the analog master source…that is, as "better"…by several very well-known industry sources. That number included myself, I confess. But it's as I've been saying for a few years now…Quad DSD is quite capable of delivering the master goods when it comes to our precious analog sources. Or, for that matter, our microphone feeds. Why would we compromise with lesser formats like PCM? Damned good question, that. No surprise at all here. Once again, Andreas Koch of Playback Designs put together a room that synergized amazingly well, and showed what DSD could do. Congratulations to him, Carl, and Brian for exceptional work. And a richly deserved Audio Oasis! Award for them all. Impressions:*AXPONA 2016 and my Audio Oasis! Awards, Part 1 - Positive Feedback http://www.playbackdesigns.com/docs/productsheets/playback-designs-PinotAdc.pdf http://www.nativedsd.com/database http://blog.nativedsd.com/recording-music-analog-tape-lps-dsd/ Link to comment
GUTB Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The Pinot is pretty compelling -- but that price though. The DA-3000 is a lesser machine, but fully balanced native DSD128 recording AND decoding via SDIF-3 for less than $800 used? Sent from my LG-H820 using Computer Audiophile mobile app Link to comment
Norton Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm quite taken with the RME ADI 2 Pro suggested by Maldur. Looks like a lot of kit for £1300 including DSD256 ADC and DAC. Not sure what software records in 256 though? But also interested in Samuel's findings re 24/96 being optimum PCM format for vinyl rips. I've also had good feeback on the KORG 10R from previous thread - any other owner comments? Interested to know if you are tied to Audiogate with the Korg or could use Vinyl Studio, Audacity etc? At moment the KORG, RME and DA3000 would be on my shortlist. Link to comment
r_w Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 DA-3000 is very good quality and VFM. Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm quite taken with the RME ADI 2 Pro suggested by Maldur. Looks like a lot of kit for £1300 including DSD256 ADC and DAC. Not sure what software records in 256 though? But also interested in Samuel's findings re 24/96 being optimum PCM format for vinyl rips. I've also had good feeback on the KORG 10R from previous thread - any other owner comments? Interested to know if you are tied to Audiogate with the Korg or could use Vinyl Studio, Audacity etc? At moment the KORG, RME and DA3000 would be on my shortlist. Source: *Aurender N100 (no internal disk : LAN optically isolated via FMC with *LPS) > DIY 5cm USB link (5v rail removed / ground lift switch - split for *LPS) > Intona Industrial (injected *LPS / internally shielded with copper tape) > DIY 5cm USB link (5v rail removed / ground lift switch) > W4S Recovery (*LPS) > DIY 2cm USB adaptor (5v rail removed / ground lift switch) > *Auralic VEGA (EXACT : balanced) Control: *Jeff Rowland CAPRI S2 (balanced) Playback: 2 x Revel B15a subs (balanced) > ATC SCM 50 ASL (balanced - 80Hz HPF from subs) Misc: *Via Power Inspired AG1500 AC Regenerator LPS: 3 x Swagman Lab Audiophile Signature Edition (W4S, Intona & FMC) Storage: QNAP TS-253Pro 2x 3Tb, 8Gb RAM Cables: DIY heavy gauge solid silver (balanced) Mains: dedicated distribution board with 5 x 2 socket ring mains, all mains cables: Mark Grant Black Series DSP 2.5 Dual Screen Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm quite taken with the RME ADI 2 Pro suggested by Maldur. Looks like a lot of kit for £1300 including DSD256 ADC and DAC. Not sure what software records in 256 though? But also interested in Samuel's findings re 24/96 being optimum PCM format for vinyl rips. I've also had good feeback on the KORG 10R from previous thread - any other owner comments? Interested to know if you are tied to Audiogate with the Korg or could use Vinyl Studio, Audacity etc? At moment the KORG, RME and DA3000 would be on my shortlist. I was not aware of the RME unit. It looks to be more of a top of the line pro-sumer unit. It will likely have a significant impact on that segment of the market. As far as I know, it's the only unit that captures DSD at or near that price point. But I'm not seeing anywhere that one can be purchased in the U.S. The usual suspects (like Sweetwater) don't seem to have them at all. They're not even saying "coming soon". And regarding 96kHz being the "optimum" capture rate, there are ADCs that perform well above 96, I just can't afford/justify them :-) Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 One thing you need to consider (IMO) is if you are happy with analogue transcription or if you are planning on any digital processing. If the latter, then you probably want to look for the best PCM ADC you can; if the former (no processing) then DSD can give better results. To add another device to your list for consideration ... Lynx Hilo. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
bmoura Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Not sure what software records in 256 though? You'd want to get an ADC that includes recording software with DSD 256 to do Analog (LP and Tape) to DSD 256 recording. The Mytek Brooklyn ADC ($1,995) and the Playback Designs Pinot ($7,500) include DSD 256 recording software at no added cost. I'd guess that some of the other ADCs out there may as well. https://mytekdigital.com/brooklyn-adc/ Playback Designs | the finest audio playback in the world http://www.nativedsd.com/database Link to comment
TarnishedEars Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I've been using a Mytek 24/96 ADC for years. I absolutely love the sound out of the needle-drops which come out of it. The only problem with this unit is that it has a SP/DIF output, rather than a USB output. But you can insert a cheap ADC unit from companies like M-Audio which will happy convert a super high quality SP/DIF signal to its digital input into a USB output which every piece of audio software will recognize. Link to comment
blownsi Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I still find it very hard to believe that there isn't some cheaper alternative out there. You can buy a chinese DSD dac for a hundred bucks but the cheapest DSD ADC is a $1k Tascam standalone unit? Why isn't there something made by Gustard for $150? Link to comment
james45974 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I still find it very hard to believe that there isn't some cheaper alternative out there. You can buy a chinese DSD dac for a hundred bucks but the cheapest DSD ADC is a $1k Tascam standalone unit? Why isn't there something made by Gustard for $150? what about some of the portable digital recorders that have analog in, even balanced in? I could take balanced out of my phono preamp and record to an SD card, no USB involved. Tascam DR-05 can record up to 96/24 wave files for around $80 (RCA) or Tascam DR-40 for $135 (XLR & RCA). Jim Link to comment
Norton Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread, lots of good ideas to consider. Good to hear from anyone else using the KORG 10R which (re. above posts) I think is the cheapest DSD ADC at the moment. Link to comment
Maldur Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Maybe cheapest but more limited by software. DAC side is limited only to Korg software, Audiogate. This is one cause why I use Tascam - no limitation to some OS or software, no computer PSU noises (Tascam has linear PSU built-in). Sorry, english is not my native language. Fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts. Link to comment
blownsi Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 what about some of the portable digital recorders that have analog in, even balanced in? I could take balanced out of my phono preamp and record to an SD card, no USB involved. Tascam DR-05 can record up to 96/24 wave files for around $80 (RCA) or Tascam DR-40 for $135 (XLR & RCA). Those only record in PCM. Nearly any PC can also record in PCM. The claim is that only DSD can truly capture vinyl. I've tried PCM numerous times and it just pales in comparison to vinyl. I'm not saying it can't be done but I'm done trying it. Link to comment
boneman Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I use VinylStudio for ripping software and have a PCI card RME Hammerfell 9632 which does A to D and can do D to A although I've never used the latter. Purchased it on EBay for about $300USD including the needed breakout cables. WIN7 OEM Pro was the initial OS and now WIN10 Pro. The RME drivers for the latter are much more user friendly. I ripped about 2,400 and counting lps mostly at 192/24. Hey, storage is not that expensive depending on your collection size. Obviously a PCI card by default is a bit dated but worth looking at their other offerings. Also worth looking any AtoD or DAC kit used. Personally, I would not buy anything directly from China. Getting something updated, repaired, serviced, etc. can be hard never mind the language issue. I lived and worked there. I can be great but it can be bad. Which is better in playback, the ripped files (FLAC) or lp playback? It depends but for me and most listening sessions, good enough. Most of my newer medium, 1988 onwards is on red book CD although I have bought some newer releases in vinyl which has been a hit or miss experience. A lot of this will also depend on the resolution and balance of the rest of your system. Following on from advice in a previous thread, I downloaded a demo copy of Vinyl Studio, hooked up my pre amp (with phono) tape out to PC motherboard audio in and, perhaps surprisingly to me, got not half bad results, although in the opposite of the old cliche, I was certainly aware of a veil descending on the music at replay compared to the original LP. I'm now looking to buy an ADC to get the best possible results from vinyl rips via what I think of as a moderately high end system. I'm really looking for the most cost effective solution, whether that means paying a few hundred or a few thousand for an ADC. 24/96 as a minimum, higher res PCM or DSD preferred. What would you recommend? From reading so far, I get the impression that there may be less correlation between price and performance among ADCs compared to some other components. Ta. FLAC and AIF files mainly 192/24 and lower on Synology DS412 4x4Tb WD Red in SHR2>direct ethernet to NUC>Intel NUC5PPYH w/JR Media 20 Akasa Newton P fanless case and DIY o11 LPS>Straightwire USB cable>W4S Recovery w/LPS>W4S DAC2DSD V2 w/Femto clock>Kimber Silver Streak balanced>Balanced Audio Technology VK3000SE>Kimber Monocle XL>Sonus Faber Cremona floorstanders Link to comment
Miska Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 DSD capable interface for computer: RME ADI-2 Pro. This is a very nice device! I have one running here: It is based on the new AKM chips. Very good as a DAC too, and awesome price-performance ratio. Can do 768k PCM and DSD256. Exposes the AKM DAC chip functionality through menus, so Direct DSD mode (disables primary headphone output due to lack of volume control) and the 50/150 kHz filter options (just like TEAC UD-503/NT-503 too). Has pretty much all bells and whistles you can think of for very competitive price. Can't wait for them to add the same converter chips and DSD256 functionality to their multichannel UFX-series too! Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
bmoura Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Can't wait for them to add the same converter chips and DSD256 functionality to their multichannel UFX-series too! That does sound like an interesting prospect! Link to comment
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