MQA is Vaporware

[sandyk]

54 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

many, many people have seen that screenshot

 

Perhaps, but it is the first time it has happened to me with C.A. , and it didn't go away immediately.

 The initial waning can be seen to be saved at 9.29AM today, Sydney Au. time.

 

[MikeyFresh]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

Perhaps, but it is the first time it has happened to me with C.A. , and it didn't go away immediately.

 

Norton has been known over the years to generate a false positive from time to time, I wouldn't worry too much about It unless you were visiting a site with questionable pedigree.

[tmtomh]

21 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 I said in THIS forum, where he IS a member, and in particular, THIS thread or another applicable C.A. thread.

 

He posted it here at CA. It was its own article, so it would be available as a centrally located, easily retrieved reference.

 

I would say that effectively addresses your prior comment that:

22 hours ago, sandyk said:

Perhaps his [Archimago's] time in this forum would be better spent posting REAL measurements that support the title of this thread ? 

 

In other words, Arch already has done what you claim he should be doing, yes?

[Ralf11]

20 hours ago, Mordikai said:

I wasn't trying to prove anything, just a data point. Why so aggressive?

 

you haven't been around here long, so just recognize that he has the episodic fits - you can however rely on his knowledge of analog circuits to (potentially) good effect

[sullis02]

On 12/11/2018 at 4:41 PM, sandyk said:

 

Japanese Audiophiles are a pretty discerning lot, and will hopefully soon see right through MQA.

 

 

LOL!  Good one!  Thanks, I needed a laugh.    

[mevdinc]

Here's a good description of MQA which is very much in line with mine.
By Audio Bacon:
"The MQA version off Tidal sounded a bit too thin and elevated. Like something I would hear from some oversampling done with software. Once I swapped for the 44.1kHz/16-bit, all was good in the hood. The warmth and density come back. Much improved timbre as well. "

The rest of the article's here for those interested. (Not a bad album either  )
https://audiobacon.net/2018/12/17/music-mondays-chlara-evo-sessions/

[sullis02]

*Negative* audiophile fluff about MQA like that Audiobacon piece are about as credible as MQA marketing fluff.   There's no solid evidence I know of that indicates MQA will either impart or remove 'warmth' or 'density'...or any clearly audible difference at all, for that matter.   (Same for 'oversampling done with software', a pretty broad brush category)  

[wdw]

For Absolute Sound and J. Valin's review of the MSB Reference DAC

 

"...as we’re talking about streaming and MQA, let me take a moment to voice an amateur opinion. A lot of folks (including some who make DACs) seem to think that MQA is a bamboozle of sorts—a new compression scheme in sheep’s clothing. All I can say is that if it is a compression scheme, it’s the best one of all time..."

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, wdw said:

For Absolute Sound and J. Valin's review of the MSB Reference DAC

 

"...as we’re talking about streaming and MQA, let me take a moment to voice an amateur opinion. A lot of folks (including some who make DACs) seem to think that MQA is a bamboozle of sorts—a new compression scheme in sheep’s clothing. All I can say is that if it is a compression scheme, it’s the best one of all time..."

If? Nobody ever said it wasn't a compression scheme.

[Sonicularity]

43 minutes ago, sullis02 said:

*Negative* audiophile fluff about MQA like that Audiobacon piece are about as credible as MQA marketing fluff.   There's no solid evidence I know of that indicates MQA will either impart or remove 'warmth' or 'density'...or any clearly audible difference at all, for that matter.   (Same for 'oversampling done with software', a pretty broad brush category)  

 

I agree though it is entirely possible a different master was used for the MQA version,  and that could be responsible for the apparent differences.   I remember playing Gorf at the local arcade and "Highway to Hell" from AC/DC started up and the sound nearly immobilized me as I was just mesmerized by the beat.  I have not heard any recent mastering of AC/DC from streaming services or a CD that match the album's outstanding intensity from back then.   There may have been drugs and/or alcohol involved.

[kumakuma]

6 minutes ago, mansr said:

If? Nobody ever said it wasn't a compression scheme.

 

He said he was voicing an "amateur opinion".

 

[Sal1950]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:30 PM, Sonicularity said:

 

I  I have not heard any recent mastering of AC/DC from streaming services or a CD that match the album's outstanding intensity from back then.   There may have been drugs and/or alcohol involved.

Better hearing thru chemistry is what Dupont used to tell us.

Or something close to that.

[FredericV]

Today an android based player was updated, and this part of the message is interesting:

 

So the MQA decoder retails for € 3.49 while other companies are asking 50$ to enable MQA.
I would not be surprised that the MQA licensing cost is probably 1 or 2 euro per node.

[Rt66indierock]

4 hours ago, FredericV said:

Today an android based player was updated, and this part of the message is interesting:

 

So the MQA decoder retails for € 3.49 while other companies are asking 50$ to enable MQA.
I would not be surprised that the MQA licensing cost is probably 1 or 2 euro per node.

 

Fascinating thanks. 

[firedog]

On 12/19/2018 at 1:27 AM, mansr said:

If? Nobody ever said it wasn't a compression scheme.

I think Valin was just being sloppy and meant to say "lossy" compression scheme. And of course, MQA marketing material did falsely call it "lossless" at first.

[miguelito]

6 hours ago, FredericV said:

Today an android based player was updated, and this part of the message is interesting:

 

So the MQA decoder retails for € 3.49 while other companies are asking 50$ to enable MQA.
I would not be surprised that the MQA licensing cost is probably 1 or 2 euro per node.

I think you need to differentiate between the licensing cost and implementing unfolding (prob around a few EUR) and the cost of implementation of rendering - which requires actual work on the filter selection side, and might have additional licensing costs as well. Given for example the amount of work dCS has invested in getting MQA implemented properly in their DACs, $50 seems a bargain!

 

BTW... dCS implemented this without an additional charge.

[FredericV]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

$50 seems a bargain!

 

$50 applies to a music server vendor who integrated MQA into the open source MPD 0.17 package, which can't be good for open source

they are in the same boat as the android player, as they do the first unfold in software

but that's all there is to MQA: a 17/96 compression scheme encoded into a 24/48 file format with crypto & DRM
the renderer is nothing more than an upsampler, where it already has been proven that dac specific tuning is not happening

[mansr]

3 hours ago, miguelito said:

I think you need to differentiate between the licensing cost and implementing unfolding (prob around a few EUR) and the cost of implementation of rendering - which requires actual work on the filter selection side, and might have additional licensing costs as well.

The renderer is quite simple. In terms of code size, it is less than 10% of the "core" decoder.

[miguelito]

3 hours ago, mansr said:

The renderer is quite simple. In terms of code size, it is less than 10% of the "core" decoder.

Understood, but the core decoder (if I understand correctly) is a binary provided by MQA for the appropriate platform, whereas you’re on your own coding the rendering. Is this not the case?

[mansr]

16 hours ago, miguelito said:

Understood, but the core decoder (if I understand correctly) is a binary provided by MQA for the appropriate platform, whereas you’re on your own coding the rendering. Is this not the case?

I'm pretty sure they provide both for common platforms. If you're using something exotic, you may need to do some more work.

[AMR/iFi audio]

 Folks, this might be interesting for you. This MQA + Pro iDSD setup guide in Tidal is actually valid for all MQA decoding DACs. Enjoy!

 

 

[crenca]

20 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 Folks, this might be interesting for you. This MQA + Pro iDSD setup guide in Tidal is actually valid for all MQA decoding DACs. Enjoy!

 

 

 

I did not play the video, but the still image showing "MQA" and "352kHz" is interesting because MQA does not actually sample that high (topping out at 96kHz), it rather upsamples to it...

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, crenca said:

I did not play the video, but the still image showing "MQA" and "352kHz" is interesting because MQA does not actually sample that high (topping out at 96kHz), it rather upsamples to it...

We know that, yet they persist in pretending otherwise. It's like selling CDs with a "352 kHz" badge on them and defending it by saying they were created from a master recording at that rate.

[KeenObserver]

Is MQA dead yet?

[Jud]

7 minutes ago, mansr said:

We know that, yet they persist in pretending otherwise. It's like selling CDs with a "352 kHz" badge on them and defending it by saying they were created from a master recording at that rate.

 

I'm still displeased at being suckered into buying a "96kHz" Jefferson Airplane disc I thought was a DVD (at a Hot Tuna concert), which of course turned out to be a CD created from a 96kHz master - and not the best master I've heard either.