MQA is Vaporware

[Lee Scoggins]

54 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

You're really stretching it.

 

If this is the case, yes banning is appropriate. I don't have any evidence to suggest this is the case, other than extremely circumstantial work hours.

 

Thanks Chris.  For all the abuse I am getting here, I sometimes wish I was getting paid.  I need to fund those Alexia 2s somehow.

[semente]

On 1/16/2018 at 4:26 AM, Lee Scoggins said:

 

We will see.  The Cheskys have a solid record of innovation in music and some street smarts in business.  HDTracks has been very successful.  I have known them since the early 90s and they are good people.

 

Didn't you work with/for them?

 

How's your connection with the industry nowadays?

[Shadders]

3 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

The longer-term problem revolved around how the artists gets paid.  It seems that artists getting paid peanuts by streaming services like they are under the current scenario is untenable for the long term.

Hi Lee,

Q1. How does MQA assist the artists getting paid more ?

Q2. If current streaming companies are not making much profit (or are they) - how does MQA help here ?

Regards,

Shadders.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Lee Scoggins said:

For all the abuse I am getting here, I sometimes wish I was getting paid.

Feel free to leave any time.

[knickerhawk]

20 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

The other day I realized I was listening to a CD I bought used about 10 years ago.  I bet you the labels hate that. 

 

It's not just the big-bad-corporate labels that "hate" it. It's also the brave little independent labels and, of course, the musicians, but somehow it just doesn't feel so satisfying when you have to lump the good guys in with the greedy corporate hogs...

 

20 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

And they want to do something about it - better for them to have you paying for life for the music - and losing access if you don't.  They rather I paid every month for that music. They know that physical media in addition to the problems of inventory, distribution, etc is also affected by that pesky first sale principle - once I bought it, I don't have to pay for it again.  Unfortunately millennials are going along - yes, there is the vinyl revival, but however impressive is in terms of growth, in absolute terms is not that significant; streaming is where is at.

 

Well, I'm no millennial (far from it, alas), but I'm happily going along with the new model. For me, the freedom and flexibility of virtually unlimited access to whatever music tickles my fancy at the moment is incredibly liberating and motivating. I love it and consider the $20 per month price tag for CD level playback (and beyond that with MQA as my happy ears tell me) to be an incredible bargain. Maybe...just maybe...those clever millennials are on to something.

 

The fundamental problem here is that it's not simply the payment model that's changed from ownership to rental. If that's all that it were about, I'd be screaming bloody murder too. But it's not - it's what you're receiving in exchange for the payment that has radically changed. In the purchase model, what you pay for allows you to listen to the same piece of music over and over and over...forever. It's very narrow/specific in terms of content but virtually unlimited in terms of access. The streaming/rental model is flipped: very broad in terms of content and very temporary in terms of access. Of course, this distinction is obvious to everyone, but it is often conveniently ignored by my fellow old-farts here with statements about having to pay for music "again" (often attended by an insinuation of corporate greed from extracting payment for the same thing over and over...)

 

20 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

Gosh - as a business they have the right to do whatever they want. We also have the right to reject their offerings.  Specially if the deal is stacked against the consumer.

 

Your statement implies that the "the consumer" is monolithic. We're not, and what's beneficial to or highly valued by one class of consumer may very well conflict with what other consumers value. Specifically, I would note that the class of "consumers" that hang out in threads like this one on CA are likely to have significantly different priorities and preferences than those that don't. When content providers respond by favoring one consumer group over another out of economic self-interest, it's pretty inevitable that the class of consumers that lost out is going to perceive that loss in terms that villainize the greedy corporate bastards and throw up their arms in utter disgust that their naive fellow consumers have been manipulated and misled. Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism!

[Lee Scoggins]

1 minute ago, semente said:

 

Didn't you work with/for them?

 

How's your connection with the industry nowadays?

 

I did.  Been friends with these folks for a couple of decades.

 

Lots of connections with the music and audio industry.  Mostly the result of my writing and going to audio shows and working on recordings.

[kumakuma]

6 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

So even the four major labels will have to be careful, imo, to create something perceived to be of value.

 

There are only three now.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Just now, kumakuma said:

 

There are only three now.

 

 

Including the indie consortium Merlin who is now under contract with MQA.

[kumakuma]

6 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Including the indie consortium Merlin who is now under contract with MQA.

 

I wouldn't consider Merlin to be a recording label.

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, knickerhawk said:

Well, I'm no millennial (far from it, alas), but I'm happily going along with the new model. For me, the freedom and flexibility of virtually unlimited access to whatever music tickles my fancy at the moment is incredibly liberating and motivating. I love it and consider the $20 per month price tag for CD level playback (and beyond that with MQA as my happy ears tell me) to be an incredible bargain. Maybe...just maybe...those clever millennials are on to something.

 

With Tidal streaming RedBook in normal FLAC has been just fine.

 

What troubles me with MQA in this model is compromised quality, and extra "MQA tax" that is added on everything, and an attempt to force me to also buy new hardware because that way someone makes more money. Plus it makes my life so much harder because it tries very hard to screw up things like digital room correction, headphone cross-feed processing and such. All that pain and suffering instead of using that standard FLAC for hires streaming just like they already do for RedBook...

 

[Lee Scoggins]

27 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I wouldn't consider Merlin to be a recording label.

 

It performs as one on some duties.

[JoeWhip]

I have to wonder how successful HDTracks really is. High rez is such a small segment of music sales.

[knickerhawk]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

MQA shouldn't change the sound. If it does don't you have to ask yourself why?

 

No, I don't bother with asking myself that question. Rather, I ask myself: which format I have available for playback sounds better to me? And then - the unrepentant subjective audiophile that I am - I listen to the music.

[Rt66indierock]

5 minutes ago, knickerhawk said:

 

No, I don't bother with asking myself that question. Rather, I ask myself: which format I have available for playback sounds better to me? And then - the unrepentant subjective audiophile that I am - I listen to the music.

 

In my case I was already happy with well recorded music so I ask the question. And ask you why is your opinion better than mine? MQA is about taking away choice not giving consumers choices.

[knickerhawk]

29 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

With Tidal streaming RedBook in normal FLAC has been just fine.

 

What troubles me with MQA in this model is compromised quality, and extra "MQA tax" that is added on everything, and an attempt to force me to also buy new hardware because that way someone makes more money. Plus it makes my life so much harder because it tries very hard to screw up things like digital room correction, headphone cross-feed processing and such. All that pain and suffering instead of using that standard FLAC for hires streaming just like they already do for RedBook...

 

 

I understand, but those are your pain points and concerns with the format based on your personal preferences and personal investment in equipment, knowledge, content, etc. For me, MQA has been nothing but a "free" Tidal upgrade and a welcome improvement to my personal music playback enjoyment. I think the jury is still very much out with respect to how much, if any, of a "tax" will be imposed by MQA as well as who's going to end up paying that tax.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, knickerhawk said:

I understand, but those are your pain points and concerns with the format based on your personal preferences and personal investment in equipment, knowledge, content, etc. For me, MQA has been nothing but a "free" Tidal upgrade and a welcome improvement to my personal music playback enjoyment. I think the jury is still very much out with respect to how much, if any, of a "tax" will be imposed by MQA as well as who's going to end up paying that tax.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, and Bob Stuart would like us all to pay for his.

[knickerhawk]

4 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

In my case I was already happy with well recorded music so I ask the question. And ask you why is your opinion better than mine?

 

It isn't, and I haven't asserted that it is. I've been careful to acknowledge that my preference is personal and based on my own personal situation. Likewise, I will assume that you aren't trying to impose you personal musical listening preferences on me.

 

4 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

MQA is about taking away choice not giving consumers choices.

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that line of argument. I now how it goes...trojan horse and all that...but so far it's only given me more choices. 

[christopher3393]

1 hour ago, Fair Hedon said:

the pro MQA punching bags still keeping around with their factless and illogical hype to keep getting virtually smashed in the face

 

Colorful word choices. Not as colorful as last week's anal rape metaphor (which I personally found offputting), but still another post that seems just a touch histrionic. coupled with a few of your more hyperbolic and vitriolic posts (examples can easily be supplied) , I wonder if you are undermining your credibility a little?

 

While it is an unfair characterization of CA as a whole, it doesn't take too many heavy-handed posts in a thread to leave some with the impression of a "snake pit". IMO.

[mansr]

When the forum turns into a snake pit, make snake oil.

[Ralf11]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AT9GP0/ref=asc_df_B001AT9GP05339874/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B001AT9GP0&linkCode=df0&hvadid=216516247812&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15704449978370742040&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033028&hvtargid=pla-356014296941

 

[4est]

28 minutes ago, knickerhawk said:

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that line of argument. I now how it goes...trojan horse and all that...but so far it's only given me more choices. 

More choices? The other day upon his death I was trying to listen to Tom Petty and the Redbook files wouldn't play. I was stuck with MQA versions. I just tried again, and his first album is still that way on Tidal. I fear this is the beginning...

[mansr]

Just now, 4est said:

More choices? The other day upon his death I was trying to listen to Tom Petty and the Redbook files wouldn't play. I was stuck with MQA versions. I just tried again, and his first album is still that way on Tidal. I fear this is the beginning...

Heartbreaking.

[Rt66indierock]

11 minutes ago, knickerhawk said:

 

It isn't, and I haven't asserted that it is. I've been careful to acknowledge that my preference is personal and based on my own personal situation. Likewise, I will assume that you aren't trying to impose you personal musical listening preferences on me.

 

 

Yes, I'm well aware of that line of argument. I now how it goes...trojan horse and all that...but so far it's only given me more choices. 

 

Tell that to those of us who preferred the Grateful Dead's original American Beauty. The masters are gone. All we have is Mickey Hart's remaster. Any trust in the major labels ability to accurately account for inventory (music) and store it propertly is misplaced. 

 

What I've always said is you need get where you want to be. I have reference albums and recordings that get me where I want to be and have been happy for a very long time. 

 

[Shadders]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

Heartbreaking.

Talking of a bad sense of humour :

 

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, Shadders said:

Talking of a bad sense of humour :