MQA is Vaporware

[christopher3393]

9 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

I went and bought my baby an airmobile

It was custom made

It was quite a steel 

With its high blown motor

and its hide away wings

step on the gas - you can hear it sing.  (with or without MQA)

 

 

Chuck Berry should've won the Nobel. ( "You Can't Catch Me" : Bob Stuart's theme song?  ; ) )

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, christopher3393 said:

 Ok, so tomorrow:

 

 

Is this the same paradigm shift that constitutes a "scientific revolution" or the equivalent in audio that Robert Harley has 'announced"? ( http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/let-the-revolution-begin/  )

 

And that provokes Archimago's critical response?

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/10/mqa-final-thoughts-on-politics-paradigms.html?showComment=1508034286252#c6079009204452185117

 

Is this "paradigm shift" language, borrowed from Thomas Kuhn approriate ? ( Or would a term like "apotheosis" be more fitting? )

The "paradigm shift" is the labels want to master in MQA. It may be a condition of employment for an engineer wanting to get hired for these projects in the future. Continuing education is always a plus. 

[wushuliu]

FYI. February will be the 4 year Anniversary of MQA...

[Jud]

7 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

I heard the rumor this is MQA.

 

I found some of it to be obviously better (differently) mastered, but some I thought sounded quite similar to non-MQA.  In the latter case on my own system I felt that I liked the non-MQA version a bit better.

 

Peter, an MQA album I thought did not have good sound quality is The Cars’ self-titled album.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, Jud said:

Peter, an MQA album I thought did not have good sound quality is The Cars’ self-titled album.

Did you listen to it in Neil Young's car?

[realhifi]

9 hours ago, Jud said:

 

 

3D: Generally agreed, though I did watch the Masters golf tournament broadcast in 3D, and it helped immeasurably in understanding the lay of the greens and knowing how putts would break.

Damn, I missed that. That would be very cool. TOUGH greens there!

[rando]

1 hour ago, christopher3393 said:

 

Chuck Berry should've won the Nobel. ( "You Can't Catch Me" : Bob Stuart's theme song?  ; ) )

I have this habit of leaving something truly impossible to ignore auto-saved in the post creation box.  As you could imagine this related to numerous suggestions going to AES in NYC would solve all that ails.

 

Quote

 

And then the witch doctor
He told me what to do

He said that

 

Ooo eee, Ooo ah ah, ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

21 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

This thread is an echo chamber of a handful of malcontents, The ship has sailed guys, MQA is the future of hirez, get over it already. If you don't like MQA and want better SQ buy more vinyl OK? 

 

Witchdoctor,

 

Nice to see you back but we are the majority. Nor are we malcontents, we saw the high end audio industry floundering with many problems and are trying to fix some of them. One reason why every argument referencing “full steam ahead” or” the ship has sailed” has fallen flat on its face is MQA has no momentum. The new mantra is “if you don’t like MQA don’t buy it.” Which is happening in the market today, Danny Kaey (Positive Feedback) admitted in his Sunday MQA seminar at RMAF 2017 the number of Tidal Hi Fi users is very small. You are posting on the MQA is Vaporware thread because there still aren’t 10,000 albums converted to MQA. And nothing has changed since I told Marc Finer of DEG and representatives from the labels that high resolution audio will be a very difficult sell at the Los Angeles Audio Show in June.

 

Now let’s get to the timeline issue you have. Your comments about the pro audio community are misplaced. Many of the people who oppose MQA on GearSlutz were shown MQA before it was introduced to the public (audiophiles) in December 2014. They rejected MQA after testing it. I’ve been around high resolution recording capabilities for over fifteen years so the studio side is well aware of high resolution recording. None of the marketing efforts this year have made a compelling argument to studios that high resolution audio is anything but a niche market including MQA.

 

And finally how can there be a paradigm shift when artists, studios and consumers don’t want it?

[Jud]

48 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

And finally how can there be a paradigm shift when artists, studios and consumers don’t want it?

 

A pretty reasonable number of the artists I like make recordings available in hi res, including relatively niche artists in places like Bandcamp, so it can’t be that inexpensive, inconvenient, or difficult for at least some studios.

[witchdoctor]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Witchdoctor,

 

Nice to see you back but we are the majority. Nor are we malcontents, we saw the high end audio industry floundering with many problems and are trying to fix some of them. One reason why every argument referencing “full steam ahead” or” the ship has sailed” has fallen flat on its face is MQA has no momentum. The new mantra is “if you don’t like MQA don’t buy it.” Which is happening in the market today, Danny Kaey (Positive Feedback) admitted in his Sunday MQA seminar at RMAF 2017 the number of Tidal Hi Fi users is very small. You are posting on the MQA is Vaporware thread because there still aren’t 10,000 albums converted to MQA. And nothing has changed since I told Marc Finer of DEG and representatives from the labels that high resolution audio will be a very difficult sell at the Los Angeles Audio Show in June.

 

Now let’s get to the timeline issue you have. Your comments about the pro audio community are misplaced. Many of the people who oppose MQA on GearSlutz were shown MQA before it was introduced to the public (audiophiles) in December 2014. They rejected MQA after testing it. I’ve been around high resolution recording capabilities for over fifteen years so the studio side is well aware of high resolution recording. None of the marketing efforts this year have made a compelling argument to studios that high resolution audio is anything but a niche market including MQA.

 

And finally how can there be a paradigm shift when artists, studios and consumers don’t want it?

 

Thanks, i didn't like the new beta version of CA but Chris seems to have worked out the bugs, nice to be back. Now...

Wake up and small the coffee mr majority unless you mean the majority of this thread. If you are the great and powerful oz wave your magic wand and raise the sales of hirez or btter yet, redbook. Sales are dying in the music industry because the MAJORITY of people stopped buying CD's and downloads and started pirating (newsflash I know). So set aside your crusty old CDP and grab an iphone and earbuds if you want to be in the MAJORITY. The labels are trying to raise the bar just like video did with 1080P and now 4K. Since the MAJORITY of customers now stream music (newsflash #2 streaming revenues have surpassed download revenues) give them am audio version of 4K on Netflix. That being MQA on Tidal, Deezer, the new service from HD Tracks, and whoever else gets on board the MQA train in 2018 and beyond.
I can't believe you think the malcontents in this thread are a majority of anything other than bad attitudes. They aren't even the majority on thos board. Anyone who has a different view than the MQA bullies gets flamed by a bunch of geezers who dumped all their cash into a dinosauer format which is going to the bottom of the ocean next to betamax and 8 track tapes. My advice is give up digital and buy vinyl. I'll take the 7000+ and growing MQA albums on Tidal for an extra $10 a month. Give me a break.

[Archimago]

@christopher3393

 

Interesting program at the NYC AES tomorrow. Bob Katz and Ian Shepherd seem to be very reasonable guys who I'm sure will do a great job talking about good mastering.

 

Bob Stuart seems to be a little out of place in that discussion though! Surely in the professional world, that abstract comes across a little ridiculous, doesn't it? "Seismic audio shift" - really!? Wonder if Stuart will keep using the phrase "paradigm shift" throughout the talk. Oi...

 

Apotheosis 

 

Also good to see stuff like the SE04 Lunchtime Keynote - Alex Case: After the Loudness Wars - Get "Louder" without the Fader today. Hope these kinds of discussions seriously permeate the minds of the audio engineers! Perhaps there's hope yet ahead...

 

http://www.aes.org/events/143/specialevents/?displayall

 

 

[Mordikai]

2 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

 

Thanks, i didn't like the new beta version of CA but Chris seems to have worked out the bugs, nice to be back. Now...

Wake up and small the coffee mr majority unless you mean the majority of this thread. If you are the great and powerful oz wave your magic wand and raise the sales of hirez or btter yet, redbook. Sales are dying in the music industry because the MAJORITY of people stopped buying CD's and downloads and started pirating (newsflash I know). So set aside your crusty old CDP and grab an iphone and earbuds if you want to be in the MAJORITY. The labels are trying to raise the bar just like video did with 1080P and now 4K. Since the MAJORITY of customers now stream music (newsflash #2 streaming revenues have surpassed download revenues) give them am audio version of 4K on Netflix. That being MQA on Tidal, Deezer, the new service from HD Tracks, and whoever else gets on board the MQA train in 2018 and beyond.
I can't believe you think the malcontents in this thread are a majority of anything other than bad attitudes. They aren't even the majority on thos board. Anyone who has a different view than the MQA bullies gets flamed by a bunch of geezers who dumped all their cash into a dinosauer format which is going to the bottom of the ocean next to betamax and 8 track tapes. My advice is give up digital and buy vinyl. I'll take the 7000+ and growing MQA albums on Tidal for an extra $10 a month. Give me a break.

how many subscribers are paying the $10 extra dollars for Tidal with MQA?

[PeterSt]

7 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Peter, an MQA album I thought did not have good sound quality is The Cars’ self-titled album.

 

Jud, I tried to avoid the breasts so far. If I think of it I will try it tonight.

Thanks.

[Speed Racer]

1 hour ago, Mordikai said:

how many subscribers are paying the $10 extra dollars for Tidal with MQA?

 

I am paying extra for Tidal HiFi for the Red Book FLAC content. I could give a rat's butt about MQA content.

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, Mordikai said:

how many subscribers are paying the $10 extra dollars for Tidal with MQA?

 

Zero.

[MetalNuts]

Sorry, I am not the guy who will even accept payment from MQA to have the DRM running in my music files and server, not to mention pay for it.

[FredericV]

6 hours ago, Jud said:

 

A pretty reasonable number of the artists I like make recordings available in hi res, including relatively niche artists in places like Bandcamp, so it can’t be that inexpensive, inconvenient, or difficult for at least some studios.

You can release highres on a small budget. I was part of such project. This is why mastering and claims about mastering interest me.

I know a new-jazz band who recorded and mixed their own hi-res album in Pro Tools. They used 32 bit 48K as internal format, final files are 24 bit / 48K. We did a 432 conversion to it, just after the mixing. Then it was mastered and when they found a label to publish it, the engineer associated with the label did a second mastering using analog Manley gear. I heard every step of this process, from the first mix to the version for HDtracks. This was a very fun project to do.

This is not big budget production, but it sounds certainly not bad on high-end gear, and they are on Bandcamp. I would rather say the opposite as I demo these files on trade shows and a lot want to know what it is. At the end of the month, these highres files will be available on HDtracks.

https://timewarpmusic.bandcamp.com/album/tick-tock

So releasing highres on a budget is possible.

[mansr]

5 hours ago, Archimago said:

Wonder if Stuart will keep using the phrase "paradigm shift" throughout the talk.

Prepare your bingo cards.

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, Archimago said:

Interesting program at the NYC AES tomorrow. Bob Katz and Ian Shepherd seem to be very reasonable guys who I'm sure will do a great job talking about good mastering.

 

Bob Stuart seems to be a little out of place in that discussion though!

 

Is anyone on this thread going? Would love to hear a report about interesting stuff discussed (regarding MQA).

 

 

[mansr]

2 hours ago, FredericV said:

You can release highres on a small budget.

Of course you can. It's hard to find recording equipment that doesn't support at least 96/24.

[witchdoctor]

6 hours ago, Mordikai said:

how many subscribers are paying the $10 extra dollars for Tidal with MQA?

I don't know. What I do know is that streaming sales are snowballing and Spotify dwarfs everyone in the category. Next year Deezer will be offering MQA and HD Tracks will be starting a new MQA streaming service. 

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2017/03/30/us-music-streaming-sales-reach-historic-high/99816802/

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Is anyone on this thread going? Would love to hear a report about interesting stuff discussed (regarding MQA).

 

 

Well if you are THAT interested here are links to the MQA related presentations. I can't send you the papers themselves but you can access them one of two ways. By joining the AES or by purchasing the paper as a non member.The papers have already been uploaded and are available. I recommend this one since the malcontents here seem obsessed with this topic. This study includes both objective data and subjective blind listening tests:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19340

Perceived Differences in Timbre, Clarity, and Depth in Audio Files Treated with MQA Encoding vs. Their Unprocessed State

The purpose of this engineering brief is to detail a planned experiment in examining any perceived differences in timbre, clarity, and depth between WAV and Master Quality Authenticated (MQA) audio files. A study proposes examining the responses of engineers, musicians, and casual listeners on whether any changes to timbre, clarity, and depth are perceived between WAV and MQA. A blind listening test is considered in a controlled environment using both professional and consumer level loudspeakers and headphones. Additional interests include a comparison of responses between the target groups on different listening mediums.

 

 

 

 

 

[FredericV]

59 minutes ago, mansr said:

Of course you can. It's hard to find recording equipment that doesn't support at least 96/24.

 

Indeed. My partner is a vocalist (hobby) and also sings in choirs. She has a Roland recorder that records highres to an SD card. And she has this device for several years. She probably does not even know it records highres  

 

Next month there will be another concert in the large hall of deSingel in Antwerp, so I'm going to sneak in this kit and record video with the Nikon D750.

[Shadders]

Hi,

The term "malcontent" is an erroneous noun to be used in this instance.

 

"a person who is dissatisfied and rebellious"

 

MQA Ltd have no authority, nor are they an authority.

All i can see here on this site are capable engineers stating the facts which just seem to oppose the MQA Ltd claims.

Regards,

Shadders.

[witchdoctor]

7 hours ago, Archimago said:

@christopher3393

 

Interesting program at the NYC AES tomorrow. Bob Katz and Ian Shepherd seem to be very reasonable guys who I'm sure will do a great job talking about good mastering.

 

Bob Stuart seems to be a little out of place in that discussion though! Surely in the professional world, that abstract comes across a little ridiculous, doesn't it? "Seismic audio shift" - really!? Wonder if Stuart will keep using the phrase "paradigm shift" throughout the talk. Oi...

 

Apotheosis 

 

Also good to see stuff like the SE04 Lunchtime Keynote - Alex Case: After the Loudness Wars - Get "Louder" without the Fader today. Hope these kinds of discussions seriously permeate the minds of the audio engineers! Perhaps there's hope yet ahead...

 

http://www.aes.org/events/143/specialevents/?displayall

 

 

The big day is Saturday, "Immersive Audio Super Saturday". Two channel technology is ancient and delapidated beyond all hope. Why do you think a show like RMAF has so many $50K+ systems on display? Because they are NECESSARY to get a decent result using 2 channel. Immersive audio is the witchdoctor's preferred sound reproduction system. Auro 3D and Ambeo are great for movies and music while atmos is more for movies. I think two channel is fine for the nearfield but a tinker toy for a main listening room compared to 10.1 auro 3D or ambeo. Bob Moses the AES Executive Director states 3D audio IS state of the art, and that's how the witchdoctor rolls. They are using a 9.1 system for the demos which will rock your world. They are using PMC active speakers for the demo. Witchdoctor studios uses 10.1 and can do 14.1 with DSP and active speakers as well. BTW, whether you use 2 speakers or 14 MQA blows away redbook in both setups, just saying.

http://www.aes.org/blog/2017/10/youre-surrounded-aes-new-york-2017s