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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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You can get programs from GFX manufacturers to overclock the GPUs.

 @seeteeyou Hades post reminded me, as i think its for Kids LAN gaming so they can carry it in a rucksack.

 

Anything in HQP as it has offload to under clock GPU?

 

Anything linux based?

Our in later bio's?

Nothing in my celeron just memory allocation.

I wasnt sure if the settings are changed in the card or stored in program?

 

The gpu adds a lot of heat/ Power draw and aren't the I7s for 4k media playback?

If its the NVIDIA GPU that holds the clock changes when under clocked?

boot windows》 under clock GPU 》pull the HD or just add AL stick and re boot. 

 

One way to get the temps down for extreme mode in general.

Reducing clock speed? or GPU functionality in bios may help.

Googling....just now..

 

Seems there are GPU z alternatives for Ubuntu...There's enought IT guys here for a silicon valley start up,  some one must know?

or can be used in AL even..

 

Ah heres something :

https://www.maketecheasier.com/overclock-amd-gpu-linux/

 

Got to sleep, ill hand over to our USA based NUC nerve center..

 

Good luck

Dave

 

Edit

Damit wrong thread again sorry, 

 

 

 

 

 

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In terms of SQ, I wonder the contribution of the endpoint to the server in a dual box setup.  Say

 

Endpoint       Server

80%.               20%

 

something like this? Please share your opinions.

 

This leads to my real concern that if a dual NUC box sounds better than your current server + the same NUC as the end point, provided that the spec of the NUC server is comparable to your current server.  Given that the NUC as an endpoint is a giant killer, could it be that the NUC as a server another giant killer as well? 

 

The small size of the NUC is attractive and the small size of a dual NUC setup is very eye appealing.  With the possibility of using LPS, this set up is almost irresistible.

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2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Good question, but I'm not sure the model is right.

 

FWIW - To my ears, the endpoint and a properly sized server brings different and complimentary things. The endpoint adds transparency, harmonics and creates the sense of space. The server adds density and weight where a poorly size server makes the sound more thin, so it is tough to hear the contrast and transients.

 

 

This is a very helpful description, thank  you Larry.  

 

I am still trying to get my head around how the server side could be having such an impact (not questioning whether it is real, just commiserating with the happy question of "why?").  How can an ethernet-based transport be impacted by the upstream server, esp. with different transport protocols? (RAAT, etc)  

 

I was noodling on this on the drive in to work this morning.  For those with multiple server NUC configurations, if you are running both at the same time on the same network and streaming to different end points, is there any cross feed in SQ?   That is, if you are listening to A-level server talking to A-level end point, do you hear a SQ change if B-level server starts streaming content to a B-level end point on the same network? (bonus point if on same switches)

 

Back to lurk mode while I wait for my NUC to arrive ;)

 

ATT Fiber -> EdgeRouter X SFP -> Taiko Audio Extreme -> Vinnie Rossi L2i-SE w/ Level 2 DAC -> Voxativ 9.87 speakers w/ 4D drivers

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30 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Good question, but I'm not sure the model is right.

 

FWIW - To my ears, the endpoint and a properly sized server brings different and complimentary things. The endpoint adds transparency, harmonics and creates the sense of space. The server adds density and weight where a poorly size server makes the sound more thin, so it is tough to hear the contrast and transients.

 

Thank you Larry.  Indeed the model was crude, and in a way similar to comparing the importance of a DAC to a streamer which are complimentary, not directly comparable.

 

In this case, the situation is a little bit different, in the way that the PCs used for the server and the endpoint are sort of interchangeable.  The difference in SQ would provide an impression of their relative importance towards the SQ.

 

I recall Roy mentioned that the endpoint was more important SQ wise.  But I'm not sure many of us got the same impression.  Subjective weighting is good enough for the time being.  If enough number of subjective weighting can be found, may be an "objective" relative weighting may be found.

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2 hours ago, bit01 said:

Intel NUC7PJYH....

 

Win7 PC/LMS>IsoRegen(Uptone LPS-1/lt3045,6V/MS HPULN 7V,3A)>AnkerUSB/eth>NUC(PH SR4,12V,2A).

..

Win7 PC/LMS>IsoRegen(Uptone LPS-1.2/MS HPULN 7V,3A)>AnkerUSB/eth>NUC(PH SR4,12V,2A).

 

I hear better dynamics (free flow) when I insert the LPS-1.2 in place of LPS-1/LT3045 combo)

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30 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

So for months now I am screaming that the PC is far more important than the DAC, which seems unbelievable to myself

 

 

 What took you so long ?  ;)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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On 12/2/2018 at 7:03 AM, BigAlMc said:

I'm still a bit confused by all the references!

So, many endpoints, servers. streamers, O/S, LPSU, storage, memory, cables, NUC versions, USB toys, etc. etc.

I know there are always new developments in the pipeline, technology morphs so fast these days, "BUT!" ~ are there any conclusions yet based on what is available now? (RE: NUC in audio).

Many Thanks!

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On 12/2/2018 at 4:31 PM, rickca said:

I can't stop thinking ... why didn't we hear about this great NUC/AL combination until recently?  It's unbelievably inexpensive and it's been available for quite some time.  Are we all too preoccupied with ever more expensive sophisticated components and elaborate explanations about their design?

yes!

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On 12/2/2018 at 5:37 PM, Dutch said:

 

The exact same thing just happened to me with the same NUC7PJYH. *cry*

As afrancois experienced I to have been unable to revive the NUC and will RMA it asap. 

It’s unbelievable one can brick a machine in this way .....

...the down side of the late, great NUC saga, thanks for showing its weaknesses as well as its strengths! NUC BUYER BEWARE, it's not all good news.

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On 12/2/2018 at 7:16 PM, Dutch said:

I think there’s a serious bug somewhere in the BIOS of at least this NUC7PJYH. :(

...don't buy NUC7PJYH  perhaps? A warning to all potential purchasers, still plenty of other versions out there! Manufacturer needs to get this sorted or pull the plug on this one. Let's see what they do for us?

I got one cheap, secondhand and it was 'dead' right out the box. Never mind, worth the gamble.

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13 hours ago, austinpop said:

My NUC Impressions

 

Roy graciously lent me his NUC7CJYH encased in the Akasa Newton JC case, and I have been putting it through its paces. I am just amazed at the SQ out of this wee tyke. But let's step back and start at the top to set expectations. My expectations with this NUC were unclear. First of all, while many have found the SQ improvement astounding, they were not starting from the baseline of a Zenith SE, which is no slouch in its own right! On the other hand, Roy had found this NUC coupled with his SR-7 to be so good that he sold his SE? That gave me food for thought.

 

I've previously reported my findings with just the OS changed. AudioLinux headless in RAM raised the SQ of my SE by a notable amount, both running as a standalone Roon player, as well as a Roon Bridge. Here are my key observations. Unless noted, everything is running AL in RAM.

  • NUC vs. SE as an endpoint, Dell as server: 
    • With SE running AL/RAM: the NUC is a small but subtle improvement. This is with the NUC powered by the SR-4. The NUC is more dynamic, and open sounding. What is astounding is this from a < 300 box!!!
    • With SE running the original InnuOS, the difference is larger. This is consistent with the fact that running AL/RAM on the SE raised the SQ, closing the gap somewhat.
  • NUC endpoint+Dell server vs. standalone SE: 
    • The gap widens. The Dell as a server sounds more dynamic. I still feel this config is somewhat harsher (this purely a comparative statement - both configs sound gorgeous) than the all-in-one SE (not by much), but I think there are many paths now to tune that out, which I can explore.
  • PSUs for the NUC:
    • I ran the following: sPS-500, LPS-1.2, SR-4, and finally SR-7 DRXL.
    • The sPS-500 quickly was superseded by the LPS-1.2, which sounds wonderful. On careful listen, the SR-4 is subtly better. This is actually closer than when I ran these PSUs on my tX-U. With the NUC, the SR-4 provides an inky blackness and tames a bit of the harshness I alluded to earlier. The LPS-1.2 is more expansive, but just a smidge more fatiguing. Again - please remember, these are comparative statements only. The LPS-1.2 is by no means fatiguing.
    • Then came the SR-7 DRXL. Man - I am astounded every time I hear this PSU! How is it possible to improve on such excellence as the LPS-1.2 and SR-4?! But it is! With the SR-7, I finally understood what Roy has been hearing. There is clear daylight now between the NUC+SR-7 and my SE. The SR-7 adds even more dynamics, but along with it a refinement and ease, that is hard to describe, but easy to hear.
  • Whither clocks? tX-USBultra - in or out?
    • Until now, for the last 18 months, the tX-USBultra, powered by the SR-4 and disciplined by the Ref-10 has been the one component that has been "old reliable, old faithful" in my chain. What about with the NUC as endpoint?
    • With the NUC, powered by the LPS-1.2, I compared with and without the tX-U, wow - the tX-USBultra is now a bottleneck! I could not believe this when i heard it, but sure enough Roy and @Johnseye are spot on. The tX-U sapped the dynamics a little, and imparted a thinness to the sound! This is the complete opposite of what it has done in the past. Amazing.
    • But wait, there's more! With the NUC powered by the SR-7, AND the tX-USBultra powered by the SR-7 (both rails are DR), the situation reversed again! With SR-7 power, the tX-USBultra again adds SQ to the path! I've discussed this with Roy, and the main difference we have in our setups is that he has only one DR rail, which he applies to the NUC. We (Eric and I) had the luxury of 2 DR rails at our disposal.
    • Verdict: at the very least, the effect of the tX-USBultra is much smaller with this NUC than it has been with all my previous endpoints. Depending on power supplies, it could be either a benefit or a hindrance. If you have one already, try it and decide for yourself. If you don't, no FOMO here!

Conclusions

 

There really is something special about this 7th generation of NUCs. Whether this is a happy accident, or Intel actually focused on audio quality, the end result is something special. However, let's give credit - a lot of credit - to the SQ improvements due to AudioLinux. It's the combination that is truly spectacular. As always, PSU quality remains a critical requirement.

 

What I've heard has convinced me to try out this solution. I've sold my ZENith SE Mk II Std., and now have a NUC7i7DNBE and Plato X7D winging its way to me. Over time, I will also look at improvements on the server end, and the network.

 

But let me end on a note of appreciation for the Zenith SE. My decision to sell the SE (btw - demand is through the roof!) was highly personal, and based on my own urge to experiment. Not everybody likes to dabble and tweak. If you own one of these, don't feel you are missing out a lot with all this NUC euphoria. This is a seriously good piece of kit, and Innuos is an innovative company. Trust me, they are watching this space closely, and will very likely offer some of these improvements in their own way. And you can always dip your toes into the pool, like I initially did, by booting up your box with an AL/SE USB stick - the original config is just a reboot away - or by adding a NUC downstream of the SE.

 

There are many path to nirvana!

Rajiv ,

 

Again a very interesting and balanced report from you. Thank’s a lot. 

 

One  comment about psu for the NUC. I have both lps 1.2 and sps 500.  In my system I am using the sps 500 to power the lps  1.2. This improves very significantly the sq provided by the lps 1.2 running with the stock smps unit. 

I will be very interested if you can run this set up powering the NUC and compared to sr4 and sr7dr

 

How much ram there was in Roy’s nuc ? Did you use AL in extrem boot mode ? If yes no problem to have lps 1.2 power it and also heat built up ?

 

why did you order the NUC7i7DNBE ?

 

Thank’s

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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On 12/2/2018 at 7:45 PM, afrancois said:

Don't know when the issue will be solved or if I will be somewhat forced to bye another NUC. I also still have to explain to Jussi (HQPlayer) that the license issued for this NUC is obsolete. 

yes, this NUC can cause a lot of headaches with "knock on effects" that affect other hardware/software usage.

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3 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

For the record I am running 7PJYH plus a CJYH with no problems so far. Last night I was listening to music and I said to my wife - this is perfect sound quality and she agreed having watched me fuss over cables, boxes, circuits, batteries etc for years. Something I never Imagined I’d say. 

Hi Patrick,

 

I find it very strange, I turn on my valve amps, open my tablet with Squeezer and hit play, then just sit and listen to great music. No issues with a complex USB chain and having to reboot different parts to get things going, no issues with the playback of some tracks that pull me out of the music. The threads I am mostly looking at are about ........music!

 

M

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41 minutes ago, MrUnderhill said:

Hi Patrick,

 

I find it very strange, I turn on my valve amps, open my tablet with Squeezer and hit play, then just sit and listen to great music. No issues with a complex USB chain and having to reboot different parts to get things going, no issues with the playback of some tracks that pull me out of the music. The threads I am mostly looking at are about ........music!

 

M

straight from tablet to valve amps? Is your tablet also acting as the DAC please?

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37 minutes ago, MrUnderhill said:

Hi Patrick,

 

I find it very strange, I turn on my valve amps, open my tablet with Squeezer and hit play, then just sit and listen to great music. No issues with a complex USB chain and having to reboot different parts to get things going, no issues with the playback of some tracks that pull me out of the music. The threads I am mostly looking at are about ........music!

 

M

:) Exactly M, my experience also to just relax into the music without distraction. I have been able to just switch on the NUCs and after a few minutes everything shows up in Roon, then I  pull out the USB sticks and I press play. 

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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6 minutes ago, the_doc735 said:

Sure! Peace. But nice to know of any weaknesses too. I'm pleased to hear you have good news. Well done.

:) Yes all the info shared especially the problems is greatly appreciated.

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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