A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[flkin]

13 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Nope, was just DC power cables when I last checked but it's worth checking. He does some nice work at very reasonable prices and is pretty responsive to the trends of this community. 

 

Ghent made me a USB JSSG, a few LAN JSSG and some custom Y- shaped DC JSSG with separate a earth plug a year ago.

 

If the request is clear he can custom make it. JSSG 360 is simple for him, shouldn’t be an issue. Only trouble is the time for making and delivery which can be long. 

[str-1]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:34 PM, R1200CL said:

 

Yes, same here. If the USPCB was just a few mm extended i could use the Metz 90 degree ethernet connector. 

 

I’m hoping for an extended version of the USPCB.

 

An extended USPCB, perhaps 50%-75% longer, and without any compromise in SQ, would be great.  I understand it was designed with use between ISO Regen, micro/ultraRendu etc primarily in mind but it would be the perfect solution for so many more usage cases if a little longer.  Probably greater prospect of sales than the microUSB, which I hope is selling sufficiently well for Uptone.

[kyrill]

14 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

My experiment with JS 360 for signal cables is over.  This may be signal cable dependent.  Meaning, it all depends on where you are in the stream.  Data only, I don't think suffers from the same issues as a stream in motion.  

 

I found that the PCie ribbon from my NUC mobo to my PCIe 1X lane for my tXUSBexp card to make me suffer greatly in fatigue with the JS 360.  But it was the best transparency I've heard, which is what kept me at it, trying, to make it work.  But to no avail, it was like the timing was out of wack, slow motion leading to fatigue in speed??  

 

So I resulted in going to a triple cotton wrap for now.  I don't have an answer to this issue.  How can I enclose this ribbon from all RF/EMI noise without killing the sound leading to fatigue?   Big open spaced metal enclosure?  Which of course is not practical.   

 

Does this apply to USB or SATA cables?  I notice on taking my PPA SATA chord apart that it is double wrapped with metal braid.  This doesn't seem to lead to the great fatigue as in the PCIe ribbon.  But this only sends data and OS.  Music data is streamed from memory with JRiver.  I'll still need to do some testing with this.  

 

Quote

Honour your love for transparency, it is key next to musicality. To choose between the two is a disaster. Still regular metallic RFI/EMI attenuation adds transparency but at the same time because of their high DK ( dielectric constant) attenuate by adding a kind of subliminal harshness, musicality as well. I have your solution of a ribbon ( between NUC M.2 slot and Pcie card)  too. Happy to find one with low DK ribbon  insulation. Still It needs shielding and any good shielding in audiophile land is based on compromises.

Electrons ( both wave and particle properties) moving through a conductor need zero DK in order to please your ears. Zero DK is outside earth in a vacuum. Next best is air around the wire. But it starts at the wire. The more low DK is direct around the wire the lower the negative effect of a next layer of higher DK component will be. That is why a lot of wires have teflon ( low DK) around the wire but the the most outer layer is   still often made of PVC. A second  rule is, the thickness of the materials. A 0.06 mm layer with relative high DK sounds much better than when it is 1mm thick. The worst sounding ones are the5 0 years + old traditional industrial metal flexible braided tubes often >1mm thickness  you see in more than 50% of audiophile components...

So my advice is to use a shield around your ribbon made of conductive fabric* specially designed for ribbons BUT as even a thin layer of ( less than 1 mm) conductive fabric has a relative high DK compared to 1,5- 2,5 of cotton / teflon, you can lower it by using a bigger sleeve and use the space between sleeve and ribbon by carefully wrap the ribbon first with a thin layer of cotton wadding evenly spread over the ribbon. Try it out and you can even use a double shield if it sounds better. Instead of a ready made sleeve,.

 

a more economical approach is to use

flexible conductive fabric foil.  I would not wrap it so thickly as shown in this photo and still would wrap it first ( wire) in a cotton sleeve to keep away the the higher DK material from the actual conductor. I told more in this thread . A lot of something steely ( subliminal) or just heard around sibilants or instruments will be attenuated.

* carbon foil has conductive properties with cotton-teflon like DK

 

Quote

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1223-the-battle-against-harshness/page-2?hl=%2Bkyrill+%2Bharshness#entry21637

 

 

 

[rickca]

10 minutes ago, str-1 said:

Deleted

[lmitche]

6 minutes ago, rickca said:

I keep expecting somebody to request a JSSG360 version of the USPCB.  

Two were made here. Hard to say they make a difference, but it's good to know the same treatment is everywhere.

[rickca]

13 minutes ago, str-1 said:

An extended USPCB, perhaps 50%-75% longer, and without any compromise in SQ, would be great.  I understand it was designed with use between ISO Regen, micro/ultraRendu etc primarily in mind but it would be the perfect solution for so many more usage cases if a little longer.  Probably greater prospect of sales than the microUSB, which I hope is selling sufficiently well for Uptone.

I keep expecting somebody to request a JSSG360 version of the USPCB.

[asdf1000]

38 minutes ago, flkin said:

Ghent made me a USB JSSG,

 

I asked him last year but his custom made USB cables are not spec compliant. 

 

This may not be an issue for most people but I've had compatibility issues with my DACs in the past with non spec compliant USB 2.0 cables so I stay away from audiophile cables these days.

 

 

 

[beerandmusic]

10 hours ago, Bruce Orr said:

 

Ok, guys. Somewhere this conversation has gone adrift. Somewhere the beer guy doesn’t understand what the pop guy is saying.  I’m the DIY’er (NOT) who managed to 360 two Lush USB cables. I was reluctant to try but@austinpop ‘s step-by-step instructions with photo’s turned out to be dummy proof. You can’t expain every nuance, so at some point you need to make the leap and go for it. Aside from the Lush itself, this is cheap. And if you don’t like the sound you can cut the 2 layers of shield, electrical tape and covering off. 

 

If you run into questions as your making the 360’s, ask me/us and we’ll help figure it out. 

 

We’re all good here.

THANK YOU!

 

I don't even know where to start...do you rip off all the existing sheath first?  The ends are molded, do you have to break into them?  If so, then this isn't for me. 

Also from what i "understand", if i have read correctly, it's just two shields with the ends connected.. by ends connected, do you just twist the braids together, or are they soldered?

 

Doesn't the description of this cable say it is aleady made like that?  Perhaps one shield is foil and the other is braid, but other than that, it sounds like it is already made like that (e.g.  2 shields, with connection at end)?

 

Networx™ USB 3.0 cables are double-shielded with a dual foil and braid. The connector is surrounded by a metal shield and the cable braid is also soldered to the connector to create an end-to-end full shielding solution guaranteeing a noise-free connection.

 

[beerandmusic]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

I asked him last year but his custom made USB cables are not spec compliant. 

 

This may not be an issue for most people but I've had compatibility issues with my DACs in the past with non spec compliant USB 2.0 cables so I stay away from audiophile cables these days.

 

I too, want it to be spec compliant...which is why i actually prefer to see if i can find one...I am not sure the networx cable doesn't fit the bill?

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I am not sure the networx cable doesn't fit the bill?

 

It does if it says it's certified... as is the StarTech cable @lmitche already linked you to...

 

Per austinpop's method, you slide everything over the existing cable... his method is non-destructive.

 

What I mentioned above is completely different.. Last year when I contacted Ghent I was wanting to get a USB 2.0 cable made using John's original shielding method. This would need soldering a wire to the metal connectors though.

[beerandmusic]

17 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

It does if it says it's certified... as is the StarTech cable @lmitche already linked you too...

 

Per austinpop's method, you slide everything over the existing cable... his method is non-destructive.

 

What I mentioned above is completely different.. Last year when I contacted Ghent I was wanting to get a USB 2.0 cable made using John's original shielding method. This would need soldering a wire to the metal connectors though.

 

 

no, the networx cable is here

https://www.computercablestore.com/usb-30-superspeed-cable-a-to-b-mm-6ft#item-details

and the doubleshield is described here:

Networx™ USB 3.0 cables are double-shielded with a dual foil and braid. The connector is surrounded by a metal shield and the cable braid is also soldered to the connector to create an end-to-end full shielding solution guaranteeing a noise-free connection.

 

I am thinking, hoping, that the networx cable has a doubleshield with connection at ends and doesn't need to be modified?

 

Inre the lmiche cable....

I was hoping you just slide over existing, but that wasn't even clear to me? I am willing to do that if that is what lmitche made for Jud?  I am hoping for step-by-step instructions for what he made for Jud, and i will buy the exact parts he recommends if so?

 

so do you just :
1.  start with the stargate cable.

2.  do not open or modify cable in any way

3.  put one braid over it

4.  heat shrink wrap over braid.

5.  put another braid over heat shrink

6. twist the two braids together at the ends

7. heat shrink over 2nd braid

 

But most importantly, is that exactly what he made for Jud?

 

[lmitche]

24 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

so do you just :
1.  start with the stargate cable.

2.  do not open or modify cable in any way

3.  put one braid over it

4.  heat shrink wrap over braid.

5.  put another braid over heat shrink

6. twist the two braids together at the ends

7. heat shrink over 2nd braid

Close, but no cigar.

 

Step 6 - You shouldn't need to twist the braids at the endpoints, just lay one over the other for 3/8 inch overlap. This means the shrinkwrap between layers is cut shorter then the braid by roughly 3/8 of an inch at each end.

 

Step 7 - Buy some Techflex and use this instead of shrinkwrap for a better finish. Two 3 to four inches of shrinkwrap to hold the techflex at the connectors makes for a professional looking job.

 

Make sure you can use a USB 3 cable as the connectors are different then a USB 2 dac can take. Jud  and I use an adapter to connect to ifi dacs which use non standard OTG connections.

[beerandmusic]

8 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Close, but no cigar.

 

Step 6 - You shouldn't need to twist the braids at the endpoints, just lay one over the other for 3/8 inch overlap. This means the shrinkwrap between layers is cut shorter then the braid by roughly 3/8 of an inch at each end.

 

Step 7 - Buy some Techflex and use this instead of shrinkwrap for a better finish. Two 3 to four inches of shrinkwrap to hold the techflex at the connectors makes for a professional looking job.

 

Make sure you can use a USB 3 cable as the connectors are different then a USB 2 dac can take. Jud  and I use an adapter to connect to ifi dacs which use non standard OTG connections.

 

ok, thanks....for you and jud, did you start with a usb 2 cable or usb3 cable?

My dac just has a square usb (so i am guessing usb2)?  would there be any advantage to using usb3 cable over usb2 cable, so i don't have to use an adapter?

 

 

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

ok, thanks....for you and jud, did you start with a usb 2 cable or usb3 cable?

My dac just has a square usb (so i am guessing usb2)?  would there be any advantage to using usb3 cable over usb2 cable, so i don't have to use an adapter?

 

 

A USB 2 cable will be an advantage over a USB 3 cable for you as no adapter is needed to connect to your USB 2 dac. Any certified USB 2 cable should do.

 

Also do to length, doing this to six foot cable is going to be a challenge. I wouldn't use a cable longer than 3 feet.

[beerandmusic]

Just now, lmitche said:

A USB 2 cable will be an advantage over a USB 3 cable for you as no adapter is needed to connect to your USB 2 dac. Any certified USB 2 cable should do.

 

Also do to length, doing this to six foot cable is going to be a challenge. I wouldn't use a cable longer than 3 feet.

thank you sir!

[ElviaCaprice]

 

Thanks Kyrill, for your input.  I have read your findings a few times over on that forum.  I've ordered the following copper fabric off of ebay and plan to make my own sleeve over some cotton wrap.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EMF-RFID-RF-Shielding-Copper-Fabric-Roll-42-x-1-Conductive/173229145787?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Graham-Cellu-Cotton-Beauty-Coil-100-Cotton-40ft-Sanex/131346555189?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

[lmitche]

7 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

thank you sir!

Good to see you make progress.

[Bruce Orr]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

THANK YOU!

 

I don't even know where to start...do you rip off all the existing sheath first?  The ends are molded, do you have to break into them?  If so, then this isn't for me. 

Also from what i "understand", if i have read correctly, it's just two shields with the ends connected.. by ends connected, do you just twist the braids together, or are they soldered?

 

Doesn't the description of this cable say it is aleady made like that?  Perhaps one shield is foil and the other is braid, but other than that, it sounds like it is already made like that (e.g.  2 shields, with connection at end)?

 

Networx™ USB 3.0 cables are double-shielded with a dual foil and braid. The connector is surrounded by a metal shield and the cable braid is also soldered to the connector to create an end-to-end full shielding solution guaranteeing a noise-free connection.

 

 

  Beers and music,

 

it does not appear that you have read the instructions graciously provided by @austinpop .  It may be you do not know how to use search, or do not have the patience. 

 

Either way, I have copied it in its entirety for your ease of use.  As you read this, understand that the instructions for creating a JSSW 360 modification are the same, regardless of the type of cable one is trying to apply it to. I used the instructions below to apply the 360 to two Lush USB cables. 

 

Also, pls note - as the instructions clearly state - you do not alter in any way the existing cable. You do not cut it, slice it or take off the ends. That is what makes it easy. You simply pull the 2 shields and sleeve OVER the existing cable, as clearly shown. There is a layer of electrical tape applied between them-again clearly shown. Then the ends of the 2 shields are braided, sealed with heat tape. Finally, the protective sleeve is pulled over and the ends taped neatly so no loose ends (literally) are visible.  All of this is documented and supported well with photos. 

——————

 

 

Making a JSSG 360  
A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streamingRemove Bookmark

OK gang - SUCCESS building my very first JSSG 360 cable!

 

 

To those DIY-phobic readers like me who've been hesitant to try this - come on in, the water's fine.

 

Steps:

1. I started with this generic Pasternack RG-400 50Ω cable
   
2. I first masked the protruding ends of the BNC connector into the cable with electric tape (green in the picture).
3. I then used a pencil to shape the flat Electriduct 3/8" flat tinned copper braid into a cylindrical form, and then slid the braid over the BNC connector onto the cable.
4. Following which, I applied electric tape over the bulk of the braid, leaving only the ends exposed, as shown below. Note: I used some tension while applying the tape to mimic the effect of the heat shrink tubing. It seemed to work fine. Also, this particular brand tape as shown is quite flexible and did not cause the cable to become resistant to bending as I had feared.
    
   
   
5. Next, slide on the 2nd layer of braid:
   
6. After this, I "encouraged" the exposed ends of the inner and outer braids to fuse together - not hard, just peel away from the cable and then finger twist the wires of both braids together. I then used the silicone rubber fusing tape - awesome stuff, excellent hint by @mozes - to seal the fused ends of the braid. This tape is stretchy, so it helps to apply some tension when applying it, and it just fuses nicely.
7. Final step, slide on the wire sleeve for a nice finished look, and seal with the fusing tape.

End result:

 

I'll be doing some listening this evening, and will report on how it sounds. Exciting s

[Monge]

@Imitche and @austinpop 

Would’nt it be an idea to make a thread dedicated to the JSSG360 tweak with teory and DIY instructions on DC, USB and Ethernet etc.

Would be Nice I Think.

Thanks In advance.

Cheers Monge

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, Monge said:

@Imitche and @austinpop 

Would’nt it be an idea to make a thread dedicated to the JSSG360 tweak with teory and DIY instruction  on DC, USB and Ethernet etc.

Would be Nice I Think.

Thanks In advance.

Cheers Monge

Monge, sure go for it! It's probably not too late.

[ElviaCaprice]

nevermind

 

[beerandmusic]

47 minutes ago, Monge said:

@Imitche and @austinpop 

Would’nt it be an idea to make a thread dedicated to the JSSG360 tweak with teory and DIY instructions on DC, USB and Ethernet etc.

Would be Nice I Think.

Thanks In advance.

Cheers Monge

 

I just added it to the thread i created, but it still may make sense that lmitche or someone creates a thread just on jssg360, and they can own it....if it is as beneficial as suggested (which i believe it is, considering Jud said it replaced his $135 cable he has been using for years).

 

I would not be offended in the least, and those deserving the credit (mainly lmithche or whoever)  can own the thread...i think it is of great service to the community.

 

PS - i like the idea of using heat shrink instead of green electrical tape, and using braided sleeving rather than having to roll up flat non-cylindrical braid....i think the directions lmitche provided are simple to understand...

 

a picture after each step would also be beneficial.

 

===============

 

Ok, i got lmiche's response, and if i understand correctly, this is all that is needed to make any cable JSSG360...Lmiche can interject if i got anything wrong.

 

Simple step-by-step instructions to create a double shield (referred to as JSSG360 by many) to help minimize RFI/EFI noise and reduce jitter.

 

1.     start with any cable (can be usb, power, etc).  In this example we will use a standard usb cable such as

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-2-0-Cable-Male/dp/B00NH13DV2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&dd=DoPIaQGjTJmlMsMv6SFCXQ%2C%2C&ddc_refnmnt=pfsd&ie=UTF8&qid=1534691359&sr=1-1&keywords=usb+2.0+cable+a+b&refinements=p_96%3A10155283011

 

2.  do not open or modify cable in any way

 

3.  put braided shielding over the cable such as

https://www.amazon.com/Tinned-Copper-Metal-Braided-Sleeving/dp/B01BIBQ940/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1534627867&sr=1-1&keywords=1%2F2+inch+tinned+copper

 

4.  heat shrink wrap over the braided shielding, leaving 3/8” of the shielding exposed at each end, such as

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071ZF5CFG/ref=twister_B0773ZGQQV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

5. lay another layer of braid over the heat shrink such that the 3/8 inches of braided shielding are touching at the ends.

 

6. Cover cable with Techflex such as

https://www.amazon.com/Techflex-Flexo-Clean-Braided-Sleeve/dp/B004SQZM4Q/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1534691868&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=techflex&psc=1&smid=A29KQN8I4JU5BK

 

7. attach techflex  with 3 inches of shrinkwrap at each end.

 

End result is a double shield (with 3/8" connection at ends).

 

 

NOTE: I still have not got a response if below cable pretty much accomplishes the same thing, since it says it has a double shield and is connected at ends?  One thing i do note that is different though is that this cable, besides being connected at ends is also connected to the outside connector and there is not shrink between the two shields...  The fact that the jssg360 cable is connected at the ends, i am not sure what the heat shrink between the two shields is supposed to accomplish?    

https://www.computercablestore.com/usb-30-superspeed-cable-a-to-b-mm-6ft

 

Networx™ USB 3.0 cables are double-shielded with a dual foil and braid. The connector is surrounded by a metal shield and the cable braid is also soldered to the connector to create an end-to-end full shielding solution guaranteeing a noise-free connection.

 

 

[octaviars]

5 hours ago, Em2016 said:

I asked him last year but his custom made USB cables are not spec compliant. 

 

Do you know what was not up to spec!

 

I use Ghent USB cables without any problems between SOtM sMS-200ultra -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> TAD D1000mk2 DAC

[BigGuy]

3 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

Do you know what was not up to spec!

 

I use Ghent USB cables without any problems between SOtM sMS-200ultra -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> TAD D1000mk2 DAC

 

I have read a lot about DIYing USB cables and even bought "audiophile" Type A & B connectors, wire, etc., for fabbing.

However, after further investigation I learned that it is difficult to meet the differential impedance spec of 90 ohms since measurement requires expensive equipment.  Figured there was no point in experimenting with construction configurations when I could not meet a basic specification!  Do not know for sure but I am guessing that some of the differences heard in USB cables is due not only to how the cable is constructed but whether or not it meets the USB impedance spec.

 

Before I bought the Pangea double headed USB cable, I had Acoustic Sounds contact Pangea and I got a written confirmation that it does meet spec.

[asdf1000]

27 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

Do you know what was not up to spec!

 

I use Ghent USB cables without any problems between SOtM sMS-200ultra -> SOtM tX-USBultra -> TAD D1000mk2 DAC

 

As I mentioned, ‘not to spec’ can still work for many people. Just depends if source+DAC like it - case by case. If it works for you great.

 

BigGuy answered it though, regarding DIY cables and 90 ohm impedance spec.

 

You can ask Ghent again though, maybe things have changed.