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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I will be interested how it turns out powerig FMCs as well. The kudos for the finding really goes to @seeteeyou who orginally posted the link of this board here on this thread. Otherwise I would´t have known about it in the first place. I just found out that it was possible to use LiFePO4s which was a major game changer for me! :) 

I will post the outcome once I get it and thank’s @seeteeyou for this and all the very goood input on this thread. 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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17 hours ago, lpost said:

I also have a 2.16 but configured a bit differently/less than flkin.  I opted to add my own 1TB SSD, and only have I2S card for output, 3 OXCO clocks, standard cabling, fuses and IEC connector.  It sounds fantastic.  I paid 7000 euro, including shipping to California.  I had my own Roon license so that was subtracted.  The unit shipped in a very well constructed and protective multi-ply custom crate.  Total weight shipped was 42Kg!

 

That must be a special price as the basic unit without clocks or extra cards or shipping is already euro6990. Your spec isn't all that different from mine.

 

How and when did you get it?

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OMG we're really going to need a separate topic for the Lush^2.

@PeterSt what connection configuration are you currently using with the Lush^2 that gave you such stunning results with your 14/28 configured as a 10/20?  Is it the same as the original Lush cable with the JSSG360 tweak as some users have already implemented?  If so, are you saying that even with the same connection configuration the Lush^2 sounds much better than an original Lush with the JSSG360 tweak?

 

I understand that you've already discovered that different connection combinations will be optimal for different PC's, so you built in the flexibility to configure many different connection combinations.  I don't really understand why one particular connection configuration may not be optimal for different PC's.  

 

How can Lush^2 be more flexible than the original Lush with all these extra layers?  How does the thickness (diameter) of Lush^2 compare to the original Lush?

 

I'd also like your explanation of why a 14/28 sounds better configured as a 10/20.  Or even why a 14/28 sounds different than a 10/20.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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1 hour ago, rickca said:

OMG we're really going to need a separate topic for the Lush^2.

@PeterSt what connection configuration are you currently using with the Lush^2 that gave you such stunning results with your 14/28 configured as a 10/20?  Is it the same as the original Lush cable with the JSSG360 tweak as some users have already implemented?  If so, are you saying that even with the same connection configuration the Lush^2 sounds much better than an original Lush with the JSSG360 tweak?

 

I understand that you've already discovered that different connection combinations will be optimal for different PC's, so you built in the flexibility to configure many different connection combinations.  I don't really understand why one particular connection configuration may not be optimal for different PC's.  

 

How can Lush^2 be more flexible than the original Lush with all these extra layers?  How does the thickness (diameter) of Lush^2 compare to the original Lush?

 

I'd also like your explanation of why a 14/28 sounds better configured as a 10/20.  Or even why a 14/28 sounds different than a 10/20.

 

+1 on this. 

 

@PeterSt - great stuff in offering this. I've already sent you an email querying a couple details before I potentially place my order. Such as what shielding do you recommend.

 

Meantime on behalf of those of us intrigued by the JSSG 360 but daunted at the prospect of tackling it, kudos on being one of the first cable manufacturers to offer it ready made! 

 

Cheers, 

Alan

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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11 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Me neither, but I hope we are going to find out. But a rough first attempt :

 

First we must understand how the Lush^1 was able to change the sound to how it does that (I think it is fair so say by now that almost everybody at least recognizes that and that only a very few don't like it for the better). Again we of course think about the measurement proposal, which as of now has turned into something more easy because we can always work with the same cable but change its configuration. And Yes, I again have set myself to do it (but don't hold your breath because it takes serious time to do it for real).

 

Anyway, for me it is relatively easy to see how the configuration required for different PC's "works", so to speak, because I have obviously in my mind how the Lush^1 operates. Still at this moment I wouldn't be able to really make something out of that because it really would be too much guessing. Therefore the only reasonable hint should be about different radiation from different PC's (or configurations in there as per my previous post) - that being filtered by the cable in different means per different config.

Reasonable, right ?

Well, no. No, because to me it does not make sense for real that filtering the frequency or noise of a USB cable would change sound (all assumed bit perfect, as usual). Unless of course we dive into the now old Lush^1 thread and proposed working of that - then we allow ourselves to reason from there. Anyway, this is not what I propose because it is too difficult and should be proven somehow all the way first. But now the how of that ...

So for now after all and FWIW : different radiation patterns require different means of shielding. Ready for reality improvement ...

Peter,

 

Great to see you bring the jssg360 techinique to the next level.

 

FWIW, I have built several dozen of these cables, with and without lush cables at the core.  While not to say the core doesn't matter, the impact of the braid always sounds the same to me. I'll add a third tinned copper braid today to my lush cable, disconnected from the connectors, and listen to the impact.

 

It would be great to determine the underlying mechanism at work here. There is something fundamental to digital sq happening here. Even better, the same technique delivers similar impacts across USB cables, DC cables and Ethernet cables. As the originator of the idea, John Swenson may understand the underlying mechanism, I don't know.

 

These shielding changes deliver a performance with amazing clarity, density and extension, that exceed my best expectations of what is possible with musical reproduction. 

 

The mumetal experiments may be a useful way to discover the underlying mechanism, in that mumetal reflects energy back to where it came while lowering radiation levels to the outside. This is different than tinned copper which absorbs energy and converts it into heat. Adding a mumetal cable to the USB jssg360, and also a jssg360ed Gotham cable feeding an iso regen, killed sq. However adding mumetal to the high current jssg360ed Gotham cables feeding the motherboard raises sound quality.

 

It occurs to me that the difference is that the USB and DC cables feeding the regen and dac carry what Paul Hynes calls "AC load currents passing through the DC leads" that are corellated with the musical signal, where the DC feeds to the motherboard do not. The mumetal on the motherboard DC leads reduces the generalized emissions from those cables, with positive sq impact. Where the cables feeding the iso regen and dac are negatively impacted with the mumetal causing reflections that combine with the original signal cancelling or combining in a way that destroys signal quality.

 

A model where varying signal correlated and signal non-corellated radiation levels combine to impact digital sq could explain much of the mysterious behavior most of us have observed in these pages over the years. Perhaps not all of it, but a majority for sure.

 

Enough, time to go listen to the musicians walking out of my speakers.

 

Larry

 

 

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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1 minute ago, lmitche said:

The mumetal experiments may be a useful way to discover the underlying mechanism, in that mumetal reflects energy back to where it came while lowering radiation levels to the outside.

 

Yes Larry, so much correct you are. And you may have noticed my explicit remark in the webshop that mumetal is *not* used because it would deteriorate SQ.

So I never use mumetal because while it captures the energy indeed, it still needs to get out and this could be through the smallest hole now beaming in that one direction with all its energy. Anway I regard such behavior bad for a cable. But :

 

The fact that it sounds bad, right away also tells something : this should now be about the cable itself radiating - this normally getting out not being harmful to the signal per se (but could now impact other devices / components).

 

7 minutes ago, lmitche said:

the same technique delivers similar impacts across USB cables, DC cables and Ethernet cables.

 

Then again the conclusion of that could be that all "cabling" exhibit similar and that the shielding in similar fashion prevents that sufficiently so whatever is impacted by it (could be your power amp, to name something) now is free of that influence. The more cables treated, the more.

 

It really is interesting, don't you think ?

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

this should now be about the cable itself radiating

Yes with the braid, the signal correlated cables will radiate less, but also be less impacted by external radiation which is further reduced here with the mumetal on the motherboard power cables.  Tough to say on balance which has the biggest impact, emmision reduction or protection from outside raidation.

 

The mumetal on the dc power cables to the motherboard is contained in the PC case which I suspect has enough emmision control to prevent too much energy leakage. Nevertheless it may be time to try one of expensive 3m rfi absorbtion sheets soon. Net-net the mumetal is adding value here for sure.

 

Very interesting indeed.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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8 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

on behalf of those of us intrigued by the JSSG 360 but daunted at the prospect of tackling it, kudos on being one of the first cable manufacturers to offer it ready made! 

Yes, Phasure is cool with subject, but Ghent Audio is really first with commercial JSSS-360 product, appearing just days (week?) after emerging from these pages!

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6 minutes ago, look&listen said:

Yes, Phasure is cool with subject, but Ghent Audio is really first with commercial JSSS-360 product, appearing just days (week?) after emerging from these pages!

 

I know. I bought two JSSG 360 DC cables from Ghent too ?

 

Just net someone too step up on offering JSSG 360 for Lan cables now... 

 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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1 hour ago, look&listen said:

 but Ghent Audio is really first with commercial JSSS-360 product, appearing just days (week?) after emerging from these pages!

 

From the audiomart post, a double shield is more effective than jssg, and i see belkin makes double-shielded usb cables?

 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1469

 

https://prod-www-origin.belkin.com/usb2_cables.pdf

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Interesting info but let's be serious , i went to see the specifications of the Meterk EMI detector which was used by the person on the audiomart link . 

It does measure in the 30-300Hz frequency range ...it may be ok for electromagnetic interference coming mainly from AC ... but it does nothing to measure RFI who are everywhere and probably a much larger source of pollution for us audiophile .

 

Therefore in my opinion it gives no worthwhile info on the effectiveness of the JSSG360 .

 

The best  measurement instrument in this case is probably your ears ?

 

 maybe so, but even so, lemitche and gang's ears  DO sing praise of the "double-shielding" concept and there has to be some reason that my ears have preferred enet to USB over all these years....if not poor shielding, then what?  Even the usb toys are designed to minimize USB jitter.  Is it your belief that this dual shielding does nothing?  I personally believe that a dac with good isolation and a double shielded cable may be the key to leveling the field between enet and usb that i have been looking for, for nearly 7 years..

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My experiment with JS 360 for signal cables is over.  This may be signal cable dependent.  Meaning, it all depends on where you are in the stream.  Data only, I don't think suffers from the same issues as a stream in motion.  

 

I found that the PCie ribbon from my NUC mobo to my PCIe 1X lane for my tXUSBexp card to make me suffer greatly in fatigue with the JS 360.  But it was the best transparency I've heard, which is what kept me at it, trying, to make it work.  But to no avail, it was like the timing was out of wack, slow motion leading to fatigue in speed??  

 

So I resulted in going to a triple cotton wrap for now.  I don't have an answer to this issue.  How can I enclose this ribbon from all RF/EMI noise without killing the sound leading to fatigue?   Big open spaced metal enclosure?  Which of course is not practical.   

 

Does this apply to USB or SATA cables?  I notice on taking my PPA SATA chord apart that it is double wrapped with metal braid.  This doesn't seem to lead to the great fatigue as in the PCIe ribbon.  But this only sends data and OS.  Music data is streamed from memory with JRiver.  I'll still need to do some testing with this.  

 

 

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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43 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 maybe so, but even so, lemitche and gang's ears  DO sing praise of the "double-shielding" concept and there has to be some reason that my ears have preferred enet to USB over all these years....if not poor shielding, then what?  Even the usb toys are designed to minimize USB jitter.  Is it your belief that this dual shielding does nothing?  I personally believe that a dac with good isolation and a double shielded cable may be the key to leveling the field between enet and usb that i have been looking for, for nearly 7 years..

May be i was not clear in my comments . this is what has written the person in audio mart for which you have provided the link .

 

So it seems all the Hyperblovating on CA about this JSSG or JSSG360 is a silly waist of time. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I knew it! :mrgreen: 

What a bunch of BS tail chasing. Now that is settled - time to focus on real improvements that work!

 

Yes of course i do believe in this double shielding scheme JSSG360 and my ears tell me it is a very good thing and i have a lush usb , two cat supra 8 and three dc cable modified like that with excellent results .

 

But in conclusion we seem to agree !

 

 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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3 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

Does ghent make jssg usb cables?

 

Nope, was just DC power cables when I last checked but it's worth checking. He does some nice work at very reasonable prices and is pretty responsive to the trends of this community. 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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16 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Nope, was just DC power cables when I last checked but it's worth checking. He does some nice work at very reasonable prices and is pretty responsive to the trends of this community. 

yes, i noticed reasonable prices....thanks, i will keep my eyes open.  Do you know if the belkin double shielded is pretty much the same as the lemiche cable without the little wire?  I asked, but never saw a response, but did find that someone else used the belkin and said it was better than the audioquest forest that i have been using.

 

I mean is there anything novel about the double-shield?

 

https://prod-www-origin.belkin.com/usb2_cables.pdf

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41 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

May be i was not clear in my comments . this is what has written the person in audio mart for which you have provided the link .

 

So it seems all the Hyperblovating on CA about this JSSG or JSSG360 is a silly waist of time. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I knew it! :mrgreen: 

What a bunch of BS tail chasing. Now that is settled - time to focus on real improvements that work!

 

Yes of course i do believe in this double shielding scheme JSSG360 and my ears tell me it is a very good thing and i have a lush usb , two cat supra 8 and three dc cable modified like that with excellent results .

 

But in conclusion we seem to agree !

 

Ok, thanks for clarification.  Even lemitche suggested doing the complete double shield  (rather than just the single wire in the initial jssg solution), does more.  My main quest is to determine if the inexpensive double shield cables will get me most of what the lemitche cable does since they can be had for under $20 (something I can afford)...i know Jud said that the cable lemitche made him was less than $20 (and it replaced an expensive cable that he has used for many years), so that is where my interest is.  I am on very low budget, and cannot afford expensive cables, so an off-the-shelf lemitche cable would be fine for me....i am guessing there are thousands like myself that won't spend upwards of $50 for a usb cable, so this information would be beneficial for many that do not DIY and cannot afford expensive cables....if ghent could offer a lemitche cable for $30-$40, then that would be of interest, if the $20 belkin doesn't answer the solution.

 

PS, i would never minimize the JSSG solution as it has led to bigger and better ideas....it's a combined effort and everyone should respect any sharing to the better enjoyment of music for all.

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