A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[gstew]

You are, of course, the best!

 

THANKS Alex!

 

Greg in Mississippi

[elan120]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

@elan120 and @gstew:  

Just got back from a trip and I'm hiding from my e-mail mountain.  PM me later this week and I'll get you both fixed up. ?

Thank you, Alex,

 

I will go work on making a carrier board preparing for the mod, and will report back how this worked out once I have it swap in.

 

Regards,

Kevin

 

[mansr]

35 minutes ago, gstew said:

I just looked for the same, thinking I had seen some before, and am not finding Crystek 575 25MHz at either Digikey or Mouser.

Maybe that's because they don't make that frequency.

[seeteeyou]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

Maybe that's because they don't make that frequency.

 

ROFLMAO

 

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

ROFLMAO

 

I see a blurry photo. The Crystek datasheet lists a number of available frequencies, and 25 MHz isn't among them. Perhaps they can supply others if ordered in sufficient quantity.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, mansr said:

Maybe that's because they don't make that frequency.

 

They will make any frequency you want--given the right quantity and $.  

I have over 500 of them on the shelf.

 

[mansr]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

They will make any frequency you want--given the right quantity and $.  

I have over 500 of them on the shelf.

Right, but 25 MHz isn't one of the standard frequencies, which is why Digikey and Mouser don't carry it.

 

Speaking of Crystek, how does the CCHD-575 compare to the CCHD-957? The data sheets are difficult to compare directly.

[cat6man]

I've visited this thread on and off over its life and I'm back for another visit.

 

I have a dx-usb HD with sCLK-2224 (formerly superclock upgrade) which I used for a few years, then put on the shelf while I experimented with microRendu and then ultraRendu, with LPS1 and LPS1.2 power supplies.

I recently went back to using the dx-usb HD to see how my totalDAC sounded with aes/ebu, since it had been a while since I used that mode (previously I used dx-usbHD with the sotm battery supply).

 

My current setup is ultraRendu (w/ LPS1.2 power) feeding usb into dx-usbHD (w/LPS1 power), aes/ebu into totaldac.

The sound is very very good and I plan to compare it to the ultraRendu feeding the dac via usb.

I also want to try swapping the LPS1 and LPS1.2, putting the LPS1.2 on the dx-usbHD feeding the DAC.

 

I see now, and wasn't paying sufficient attention earlier, that the newer EX clock fits in the dx-usbHD and is a good upgrade even from the sCLK-2224.  How many folks out there have a sotm unit withe the EX clock?  Anyone using the dx-usbHD with sCLK-13224EX clock?

Anyone doing so with aes/ebu output?  I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions.  I see that Romaz had a unit upgraded and was using, I believe, spdif output.  Anyone else with experience here?

 

I've emailed sotm asking about an upgrade for my dx-usbHD unit, but have yet to get a response.

I do see that the EX clock is an option that can be chosen at checkout if buying a new dx-usbHD unit and the sCLK-13224EX clock costs $250 more than the sCLK-2224 (which I currently have).

 

Cheers

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, cat6man said:

How many folks out there have a sotm unit withe the EX clock?  Anyone using the dx-usbHD with sCLK-13224EX clock?

Anyone doing so with aes/ebu output?  I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions.  I see that Romaz had a unit upgraded and was using, I believe, spdif output.  Anyone else with experience here?

 

While I don't own one, I've had extensive experience listening to one in Eric @limniscate's system. He has the dX-USB HD with sCLK-EX, including a master clock input. If you search back in this thread, you should be able to find postings from me and him about our listening impressions of this in various contexts. Bottom line is, yes it sounds very good, and does scale as you connect a 10MHz master clock (Mutec Ref 10).

 

1 hour ago, cat6man said:

I've emailed sotm asking about an upgrade for my dx-usbHD unit, but have yet to get a response.

I do see that the EX clock is an option that can be chosen at checkout if buying a new dx-usbHD unit and the sCLK-13224EX clock costs $250 more than the sCLK-2224 (which I currently have).

 

Please let us know what you learn. While it would be very generous if they allowed you to trade up to the sCLK-EX for just the differential cost, my guess is you will just end up needing to buy a new sCLK-EX board. Of course, this board will have 4 clock outputs, of which only 2 are used internally within the dX-USB HD:

1. one for the USB controller
2. one for both the sample rate families - SOtM has a means by which they can use the SEL0 input on the sCLK-EX board to switch between 22.5792 MHz for 44.1kHz, and 24.576 MHz for 48kHz.

So this leaves 2 more clock points available for other devices. Also, you will want to consider if you ever plan to get a master reference clock, in which case, you will need to spring for the master clock input.

 

Have you got a plan or strategy of where you want to go with this approach? I ask because the farther you plan this, the better buying decisions you can make with one round trip shipment of your unit to SOtM.

[davide256]

For Allo USBridge users or other streamer with an FE port trying network bridging:
 I ran into a problem with BSOD system crashes during system use when network bridge was enabled with Windows 10
(PC  ASRock 960GM/U3G3 MOBO with AMD8350 FX processor).

I had initially added a second PCI GigE Realtek NIC, encountered the BSOD crashes, tried a 2xGigE Realtek PCIE NIC with the on board NIC disabled, latest driver update

but still had BSOD system crashes during playback or web browsing.

Problem resolution: Allo USBridge is FE, MOBO NIC is GigE. Restricting speed in driver parameters to 100MBPS
full duplex on both NICs stopped BSOD crashes.

[jean-michel6]

On 7/4/2018 at 3:05 AM, cat6man said:

I've visited this thread on and off over its life and I'm back for another visit.

 

I have a dx-usb HD with sCLK-2224 (formerly superclock upgrade) which I used for a few years, then put on the shelf while I experimented with microRendu and then ultraRendu, with LPS1 and LPS1.2 power supplies.

I recently went back to using the dx-usb HD to see how my totalDAC sounded with aes/ebu, since it had been a while since I used that mode (previously I used dx-usbHD with the sotm battery supply).

 

My current setup is ultraRendu (w/ LPS1.2 power) feeding usb into dx-usbHD (w/LPS1 power), aes/ebu into totaldac.

The sound is very very good and I plan to compare it to the ultraRendu feeding the dac via usb.

I also want to try swapping the LPS1 and LPS1.2, putting the LPS1.2 on the dx-usbHD feeding the DAC.

 

I see now, and wasn't paying sufficient attention earlier, that the newer EX clock fits in the dx-usbHD and is a good upgrade even from the sCLK-2224.  How many folks out there have a sotm unit withe the EX clock?  Anyone using the dx-usbHD with sCLK-13224EX clock?

Anyone doing so with aes/ebu output?  I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions.  I see that Romaz had a unit upgraded and was using, I believe, spdif output.  Anyone else with experience here?

 

I've emailed sotm asking about an upgrade for my dx-usbHD unit, but have yet to get a response.

I do see that the EX clock is an option that can be chosen at checkout if buying a new dx-usbHD unit and the sCLK-13224EX clock costs $250 more than the sCLK-2224 (which I currently have).

 

Cheers

I do had a dx-USB HD with sCLK 2224 and I did upgraded it to sCLKex.  

It is now powered by an lps 1.2

My dealer here in france bought back from me at half cost the sCLk224 board and i did purchase the sCLKex. 

I am using it to input into AES-EBU in an AMR dp 777 se dac. 

I did got some SQ improvement going from sCLK 2224 to sCLKex but it is not very big. 

In my opinion it is a worthwhile investment if you plan to use the two additional clock output of the sCLKex and adding later a 10mhz ref clock which I have not done yet. 

One other route you may try. 

I did try in my system the new matrix USB-Spdif converter.  

It is better than the sotm with sCLKex board and cost is small .... cheaper than sCLK ex 

[jean-michel6]

DC cables. 

Following reading  from @lmitche and @mozes and others. 

 

I have tried several dc cable recipes. I did try these cable between uptone lps 1.2 and my sotm gears ( dx-USB hd and tx USB ultra ). 

 

I have to say that I am quite amazed by the improvement brought by better DC cables I never thought that those cable can make such a big sq bump. 

 

I did try :

- standard DC cable delivered with uptone lps 

- canare 4S6 star quad and JSSG360 

- gotham pro4 star quad and all shield connected in a JSSG 360 way. 

- Neotech multi strand AWG 14 OCC copper and JSSG 360 

elecaudio dc jack from audiophonics. 

 

The results are as follows in term of better SQ 

 

standard << canare << Gotham <~ Neotech 

 

The difference between each of these cable is not subtle and you can easily hear the differences even if you switch one cable only. 

 

Several conclusions from from my side. 

 

- The JSSG 360 is absolutely great and is a must 

-  Size does matter : Gotham and canare in starquad configuration will represent about 1 mm2 of copper on each leg and neotech 2 mm2 per leg. 

- Metallurgy may matter Neotech is occ where canare and Gotham are only ofc. 

 

The ideal cable may be an occ cable in a star quad arrangement but I have not found it. 

 

The difference between the Gotham and neotech was very Interesting as they are both very good. 

Sound signature of both cable was quite close but I was better drawn in the music with the neotech than the Gotham. A detailed analysis of what I was hearing did show that the neotech was better at reproducing the very tiny electrical signals which give cues to the recording venues and also very subtle harmonics of voices or instruments. 

It was very noticeable on some songs of Patricia Barber recorded in dining club and before she even start to sing you can hear the atmosphere of the place with the feeling to be there. 

[d_elm]

7 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

DC cables. 

Following reading  from @lmitche and @mozes and others. 

 

I have tried several dc cable recipes. I did try these cable between uptone lps 1.2 and my sotm gears ( dx-USB hd and tx USB ultra ). 

 

I have to say that I am quite amazed by the improvement brought by better DC cables I never thought that those cable can make such a big sq bump. 

 

I did try :

- standard DC cable delivered with uptone lps 

- canare 4S6 star quad and JSSG360 

- gotham pro4 star quad and all shield connected in a JSSG 360 way. 

- Neotech multi strand AWG 14 OCC copper and JSSG 360 

elecaudio dc jack from audiophonics. 

 

The results are as follows in term of better SQ 

 

standard << canare << Gotham <~ Neotech 

 

The difference between each of these cable is not subtle and you can easily hear the differences even if you switch one cable only. 

 

Several conclusions from from my side. 

 

- The JSSG 360 is absolutely great and is a must 

-  Size does matter : Gotham and canare in starquad configuration will represent about 1 mm2 of copper on each leg and neotech 2 mm2 per leg. 

- Metallurgy may matter Neotech is occ where canare and Gotham are only ofc. 

 

The ideal cable may be an occ cable in a star quad arrangement but I have not found it. 

 

The difference between the Gotham and neotech was very Interesting as they are both very good. 

Sound signature of both cable was quite close but I was better drawn in the music with the neotech than the Gotham. A detailed analysis of what I was hearing did show that the neotech was better at reproducing the very tiny electrical signals which give cues to the recording venues and also very subtle harmonics of voices or instruments. 

It was very noticeable on some songs of Patricia Barber recorded in dining club and before she even start to sing you can hear the atmosphere of the place with the feeling to be there. 

I could not find OCC starquad cable so I made two with Neotech 18awg OCC wire. CA post is https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/?do=findComment&amp;comment=803195.

 

I have now installed JSSG360 on the DC cables.

 

 

[seeteeyou]

7 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

- Metallurgy may matter Neotech is occ where canare and Gotham are only ofc.

 

That seemed to further validate what @mozes was reporting after he tried lots of DC cables. In other words, we aren't fully unleashing the potential of LT3045 unless we're actually getting our hands on some "right" cables.

 

BTW, are you tempted to replace those power cables inside your music server as @jean-michel6 described before?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=304&tab=comments#comment-806606

[Johnseye]

5 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

That seemed to further validate what @mozes was reporting after he tried lots of DC cables. In other words, we aren't fully unleashing the potential of LT3045 unless we're actually getting our hands on some "right" cables.

 

BTW, are you tempted to replace those power cables inside your music server as @jean-michel6 described before?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=304&tab=comments#comment-806606

 

On my to do list.

[look&listen]

7 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

The results are as follows in term of better SQ 

 

standard << canare << Gotham <~ Neotech 

 

Sorry, but not clear from text which is best SQ & which less-so ?

[Johnseye]

Does anyone know what DC connector is used with the sPS-500?  I'm looking to make my own cable.

 

 

[elan120]

11 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Does anyone know what DC connector is used with the sPS-500?  I'm looking to make my own cable.

 

 

It is made by HRS, and it is their HR10 series connectors with 4 contacts.  You can source them from Mouser.

[Johnseye]

4 minutes ago, elan120 said:

It is made by HRS, and it is their HR10 series connectors with 4 contacts.  You can source them from Mouser.

 

Thanks, is this the one?

 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hirose-Connector/HR10-7P-4P73?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvf6myxbP4FpEd4Rg2Py7NDbqfDBtZnCQY%3d

 

[elan120]

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Thanks, is this the one?

 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Hirose-Connector/HR10-7P-4P73?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvf6myxbP4FpEd4Rg2Py7NDbqfDBtZnCQY%3d

 

That is one of them...this link show different choices, where some are solder type terminations and some are crimp type terminations.

 

https://www.mouser.com/Hirose-Electric/Connectors/Circular-Connectors/Circular-Push-Pull-Connectors/HR10-Series/_/N-76q5k?P=1ytavvhZ1yzve10Z1z0jmg3Z1yzvqey

[Superdad]

21 minutes ago, elan120 said:

It is made by HRS, and it is their HR10 series connectors with 4 contacts.  You can source them from Mouser.

 

I have several times relented and made custom adaptations of our Oyaide/Belden (4x18awg) star-quad with that Hirose plug on the end--for JS-2 buyers using it to power their $10K Merging Technologies NADAC.

Those Hirose plugs--with their tiny, very close together pins, and their narrow shell with no back cleanace--are a major pain to work with.  I hate them!  And be very careful about polarity.  The pins have numbers, but which number is for which pin?  And you have to figure things out in relation to the notches on the shell.  

Have fun! ?

[auricgoldfinger]

@mozes and I can vouch for this cable if you decide not to take the DIY route.  The price is very reasonable given the current CAD/USD exchange rate.

 

https://audiosensibility.com/blog/sotm-audio/#!/Signature-Silver-SOtM-DC-Cable/p/102414197/category=27007760

[jean-michel6]

2 hours ago, look&listen said:

Sorry, but not clear from text which is best SQ & which less-so ?

From right to left  SQ is better ...Hopefully  ?  because Neotech OCC is probably 100 more time expensive than the standard cable ...

[jean-michel6]

23 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I have several times relented and made custom adaptations of our Oyaide/Belden (4x18awg) star-quad with that Hirose plug on the end--for JS-2 buyers using it to power their $10K Merging Technologies NADAC.

Those Hirose plugs--with their tiny, very close together pins, and their narrow shell with no back cleanace--are a major pain to work with.  I hate them!  And be very careful about polarity.  The pins have numbers, but which number is for which pin?  And you have to figure things out in relation to the notches on the shell.  

Have fun! ?

Yes those hirose connector are really a pain to work with . I have made some cable for the SPS 500 but you are limited in cable diameter as those connectors are very tiny ....

 

I have now gone for the LPS 1.2 because it is significantly better than the SPS 500 and you can make nice DC cable to fit it  !

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

That is one of them...this link show different choices, where some are solder type terminations and some are crimp type terminations.

 

https://www.mouser.com/Hirose-Electric/Connectors/Circular-Connectors/Circular-Push-Pull-Connectors/HR10-Series/_/N-76q5k?P=1ytavvhZ1yzve10Z1z0jmg3Z1yzvqey

 

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

I have several times relented and made custom adaptations of our Oyaide/Belden (4x18awg) star-quad with that Hirose plug on the end--for JS-2 buyers using it to power their $10K Merging Technologies NADAC.

Those Hirose plugs--with their tiny, very close together pins, and their narrow shell with no back cleanace--are a major pain to work with.  I hate them!  And be very careful about polarity.  The pins have numbers, but which number is for which pin?  And you have to figure things out in relation to the notches on the shell.  

Have fun! ?

 

1 hour ago, jean-michel6 said:

Yes those hirose connector are really a pain to work with . I have made some cable for the SPS 500 but you are limited in cable diameter as those connectors are very tiny ....

 

I have now gone for the LPS 1.2 because it is significantly better than the SPS 500 and you can make nice DC cable to fit it  !

 

Yes, I have an LPS 1.2 and 1.  The specs are a little different so can support different deivces, and I was considering the SOtM master clock at the time which would have afforded a discount.

 

Since you three have some experience with the Hirose connector, do you think it will work with the Gotham Star Quad ?  My goal will be to replace all DC cables with it.  Also, can you crimp it with a coax crimper or does it need something special?

 

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

@mozes and I can vouch for this cable if you decide not to take the DIY route.  The price is very reasonable given the current CAD/USD exchange rate.

 

https://audiosensibility.com/blog/sotm-audio/#!/Signature-Silver-SOtM-DC-Cable/p/102414197/category=27007760

 

Thanks.  I have a similar silver cable from SOtM.  Not as good as that one though, the gauge is smaller.  I may just JSSG 360 that cable if the Hirose is too difficult to work with.