A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG, these guys are boasting signal integrity and all that

 

https://pro.intona.eu/en/stories/cable

https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/17/171383.html

 

$319 to $549 for Premium, $549 to $919 for Reference, I guess that Ultimate should cost $919 and up?

 

https://pro.intona.eu/en/products/buy/4053/

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/intona-professional-ids-vna-impedance-controlled-usb-cable/

Most likely a cable alone couldn't replace the role of ISO REGEN + LPS-1.2 combo so what's the point?

[mansr]

1 minute ago, seeteeyou said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

OMG, these guys are boasting signal integrity and all that

 

https://pro.intona.eu/en/stories/cable

https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/17/171383.html

 

$319 to $549 for Premium, $549 to $919 for Reference, I guess that Ultimate should cost $919 and up?

 

https://pro.intona.eu/en/products/buy/4053/

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/intona-professional-ids-vna-impedance-controlled-usb-cable/

Most likely a cable alone couldn't replace the role of ISO REGEN + LPS-1.2 combo so what's the point?

Graphs without labelled axes. Great, how are we supposed to interpret, let alone trust, that? Besides, in-spec impedance deviations are harmless.

[luisma]

I'm in the process of replacing power cables. Need a power cable for

• Terminator DAC
• Yamaha AS2100 Amp
• Powersound Audio S3600 sub

 

My plan is to match these power cords to the equipment.

 

Terminator DAC

Harmonic Technology Fantasy III AC-10 Power Cable https://audiosensibility.com/blog/store-backup/#!/Harmonic-Technology-Fantasy-III-AC-10-Power-Cable/p/91357532

Yamaha AS2100 Amp

Signalcable Magic Power Digital Reference

http://signalcable.com/digitalpowerHC.html

 

Powersound Audio S3600 sub

Oyaide Tunami GPX Power Cable; 1.8m AC Cord

 

Using the best cable for the DAC and the thicker shielded Oyaide for low frequency equipment.

 

Was wondering if you guys have a different opinion on matching.

 

Thanks

 

[flkin]

I would like to make add some comments to the original PoE-DC concept of adding 2 PoE connectors to the end of any cheap ethernet cable to function as a high quality DC cable. Cheap and easy to do.

 

I note that many are jumping onto the bandwagon of creating their own DC cables of increasingly complex designs and it seems that every iteration is always better than the last. That may well be the case and is interesting to note but I haven't and can't try them all.

 

However,

 

I have found that by joining the unused ethernet connectors at each end of the PoE with the same brand of cable and keeping it parallel to the original cable, this looped PoE-DC sounds better. And is still absolutely easy to do although it will require two additional female/female ethernet connectors and the loop cable.

 

And this is the reason why I think it works:

 

If we use a same type of cable for the loop and keep them parallel and close together, then the unused looped wires inside should remain zero voltage no matter what the RFI and EMI the PoE DC is exposed to. This is because for any micro voltage generated by RFI/EMI in one direction (say up), it also created an equal micro voltage on the loop side in the same direction (again up). So since it's a loop, the micro voltages effectively move in opposite directions, cancel one another resulting in zero voltage.

 

And a zero voltage wire is effectively an earth cable.  ?

 

What then is the effect of having an earth cable twisted around both legs of the DC wires in the PoE-DC (ala Paul Hynes DC cables)? Whatever it is, it sounds good to me.

 

And no DIY required!  ??

[flkin]

To explain the above logic:

[Johnseye]

7 hours ago, flkin said:

I would like to make add some comments to the original PoE-DC concept of adding 2 PoE connectors to the end of any cheap ethernet cable to function as a high quality DC cable. Cheap and easy to do.

 

I note that many are jumping onto the bandwagon of creating their own DC cables of increasingly complex designs and it seems that every iteration is always better than the last. That may well be the case and is interesting to note but I haven't and can't try them all.

 

However,

 

I have found that by joining the unused ethernet connectors at each end of the PoE with the same brand of cable and keeping it parallel to the original cable, this looped PoE-DC sounds better. And is still absolutely easy to do although it will require two additional female/female ethernet connectors and the loop cable.

 

And this is the reason why I think it works:

 

If we use a same type of cable for the loop and keep them parallel and close together, then the unused looped wires inside should remain zero voltage no matter what the RFI and EMI the PoE DC is exposed to. This is because for any micro voltage generated by RFI/EMI in one direction (say up), it also created an equal micro voltage on the loop side in the same direction (again up). So since it's a loop, the micro voltages effectively move in opposite directions, cancel one another resulting in zero voltage.

 

And a zero voltage wire is effectively an earth cable.  ?

 

What then is the effect of having an earth cable twisted around both legs of the DC wires in the PoE-DC (ala Paul Hynes DC cables)? Whatever it is, it sounds good to me.

 

And no DIY required!  ??

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the use case, but why would you want to use PoE at all?  Why have power travel across the ethernet cable?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the use case, but why would you want to use PoE at all?  Why have power travel across the ethernet cable?

 

They are not using these things for Ethernet data, the adapters (which are purely just connectors—no active or passive parts at all) are just a means to use different CAT cables as DC power cables.  Most people have move on and are either buying raw cable (CAT or other topologies with various conductors and shielding), or are cutting the RJ45 plugs off the ends and terminating with a DC plug.

[Cornan]

27 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

They are not using these things for Ethernet data, the adapters (which are purely just connectors—no active or passive parts at all) are just a means to use different CAT cables as DC power cables.  Most people have move on and are either buying raw cable (CAT or other topologies with various conductors and shielding), or are cutting the RJ45 plugs off the ends and terminating with a DC plug.

 

It is actually back to basics in my case. No shielding. No JSSG. Just distance between -Ve and +Ve and pure tripple ccc copper for -Ve and silver plated OCC stranded copper for +Ve. Sounds amazing! The question is if the speed of the electrons (eddy current) defines the frequence heard in the music? If that is true pure thick copper (and possible copper shielding/JSSG as well) for -Ve and unshielded pure silver for +Ve is a viable experiment! ?

[austinpop]

OK gang - SUCCESS building my very first JSSG 360 cable!

 

 

To those DIY-phobic readers like me who've been hesitant to try this - come on in, the water's fine.

 

Steps:

1. I started with this generic Pasternack RG-400 50Ω cable
   
2. I first masked the protruding ends of the BNC connector into the cable with electric tape (green in the picture).
3. I then used a pencil to shape the flat Electriduct 3/8" flat tinned copper braid into a cylindrical form, and then slid the braid over the BNC connector onto the cable.
4. Following which, I applied electric tape over the bulk of the braid, leaving only the ends exposed, as shown below. Note: I used some tension while applying the tape to mimic the effect of the heat shrink tubing. It seemed to work fine. Also, this particular brand tape as shown is quite flexible and did not cause the cable to become resistant to bending as I had feared.
    
   
   
5. Next, slide on the 2nd layer of braid:
   
6. After this, I "encouraged" the exposed ends of the inner and outer braids to fuse together - not hard, just peel away from the cable and then finger twist the wires of both braids together. I then used the silicone rubber fusing tape - awesome stuff, excellent hint by @mozes - to seal the fused ends of the braid. This tape is stretchy, so it helps to apply some tension when applying it, and it just fuses nicely.
7. Final step, slide on the wire sleeve for a nice finished look, and seal with the fusing tape.

End result:

 

I'll be doing some listening this evening, and will report on how it sounds. Exciting stuff!

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, austinpop said:

OK gang - SUCCESS building my very first JSSG 360 cable!

 

 

To those DIY-phobic readers like me who've been hesitant to try this - come on in, the water's fine.

 

Steps:

1. I started with this generic Pasternack RG-400 50Ω cable
   
2. I first masked the protruding ends of the BNC connector into the cable with electric tape (green in the picture).
3. I then used a pencil to shape the flat Electriduct 3/8" flat tinned copper braid into a cylindrical form, and then slid the braid over the BNC connector onto the cable.
4. Following which, I applied electric tape over the bulk of the braid, leaving only the ends exposed, as shown below. Note: I used some tension while applying the tape to mimic the effect of the heat shrink tubing. It seemed to work fine. Also, this particular brand tape as shown is quite flexible and did not cause the cable to become resistant to bending as I had feared.
   f 
5. Next, slide on the 2nd layer of braid:
   
6. After this, I "encouraged" the exposed ends of the inner and outer braids to fuse together - not hard, just peel away from the cable and then finger twist the wires of both braids together. I then used the silicone rubber fusing tape - awesome stuff, excellent hint by @mozes - to seal the fused ends of the braid. This tape is stretchy, so it helps to apply some tension when applying it, and it just fuses nicely.
7. Final step, slide on the wire sleeve for a nice finished look, and seal with the fusing tape.

End result:

 

I'll be doing some listening this evening, and will report on how it sounds. Exciting stuff!

 

Is it a garden scissor you have there? ? Anyway, great work Rajiv! Looking forward to see you at the DIY community! ?

[austinpop]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

Is it a garden scissor you have there? ? Anyway, great work Rajiv! Looking forward to see you at the DIY community! ?

 

Nope - those are craft scissors from when my (now grown) daughters needed them for school projects, and stuff. Honestly, any sharp scissors would be fine!

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

Nope - those are craft scissors from when my (now grown) daughters needed them for school projects, and stuff. Honestly, any sharp scissors would be fine!

 

Sure enough! Not laughing at you, but with you! Been there, done that! ?

[BigGuy]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Nope - those are craft scissors from when my (now grown) daughters needed them for school projects, and stuff. Honestly, any sharp scissors would be fine!

I have also found cuticle scissors to work well for taming stray hairs...

 

[FredM]

Great to see these initiatives, for further discovery this site might be helpful:

https://hollandshielding.com/Shielding-tips-and-tricks

[BigGuy]

12 minutes ago, FredM said:

Great to see these initiatives, for further discovery this site might be helpful:

https://hollandshielding.com/Shielding-tips-and-tricks

Saw that white paper as well.

Got me to thinking about all these regulators, etc., daisy-chained with "full metal jacket" cabling.  It struck me that jacks, plugs, cabinets, etc., are not getting much consideration. 

 

 I read in one white paper that, if shields are going to be left open-ended (can w/o ends), they need to extend at least one diameter beyond where the cable nominally ends.  So, if you have a 1/2" diameter cable which is 10" long, the shield should be 11", i.e., extend 1/2" at both head and tail which would mean partially extending over the connectors in most cases.

[Confused]

I might be being really stupid here, but I thought there is supposed to be a cable connecting each end of the shield together?  Maybe that’s something else, not the JSSG 360?  Maybe I have misinterpreted this completely?  Anyway, sometimes you need to ask the silly questions to learn.  Go easy on me!

[Cornan]

12 minutes ago, Confused said:

I might be being really stupid here, but I thought there is supposed to be a cable connecting each end of the shield together?  Maybe that’s something else, not the JSSG 360?  Maybe I have misinterpreted this completely?  Anyway, sometimes you need to ask the silly questions to learn.  Go easy on me!

 

A shield is just a way to minimize capicitive coupling. If you want the impedance to be greater you’ll have to loose the shield since it couples with the wires and creates capative coupling that slows the electrones down. If you want to uncrease their speed or impedance you’ll need to decrease the capasitive coupling ir increase the current. The latter may be out of the question. Silver have the least capasitive coupling. Copper have the most.

 

[Confused]

Sure, however I was referring to this from JS:

 

 

So what about shielded cables? I hope is now obvious that for shielding to be effective there needs to be a conductive path from one end of the shield to the other. If there is not such a path the only shielding that is going to happen is for high frequencies due to cpacitances involved with the shield.

 

The best way for the shielding to work properly is a separate wire connected to each end of the shield. This is sufficient for shielding from DC to very high frequencies. Note the shield does NOT have to be connected an earth ground, the "ground" of the circuit at either end, or any thing else for that matter. A cable with a shield the is not connected to anything else except itself (ie a separate wire from one end to the other of the shield) will be highly effective in shielding what is inside.

 

 

Is this just for DC cables?

[Cornan]

8 minutes ago, Confused said:

Sure, however I was referring to this from JS:

 

 

So what about shielded cables? I hope is now obvious that for shielding to be effective there needs to be a conductive path from one end of the shield to the other. If there is not such a path the only shielding that is going to happen is for high frequencies due to cpacitances involved with the shield.

 

The best way for the shielding to work properly is a separate wire connected to each end of the shield. This is sufficient for shielding from DC to very high frequencies. Note the shield does NOT have to be connected an earth ground, the "ground" of the circuit at either end, or any thing else for that matter. A cable with a shield the is not connected to anything else except itself (ie a separate wire from one end to the other of the shield) will be highly effective in shielding what is inside.

 

 

Is this just for DC cables?

 

Remember that shielding is adding capasitive coupling. Shielding is great when it ptotects to something bad. ?

[aggielaw]

21 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

A shield is just a way to minimize capicitive coupling. If you want the impedance to be greater you’ll have to loose the shield since it couples with the wires and creates capative coupling that slows the electrones down. If you want to uncrease their speed or impedance you’ll need to decrease the capasitive coupling ir increase the current. The latter may be out of the question. Silver have the least capasitive coupling. Copper have the most.

 

 

Interesting!  Silver has long been known as much for its "speed" as for its tendency for brightness.  Perhaps this explains why the "pace, rhythm, and timing" audiophiles sometimes discuss is usually excellent with silver cables.

[Cornan]

Just now, aggielaw said:

 

Interesting!  Silver has long been known as much for its "speed" as for its tendency for brightness.  Perhaps this explains why the "pace, rhythm, and timing" audiophiles sometimes discuss is usually excellent with silver cables.

 

That’s a part of my theory! Would be nice to get that confirmed in science.?

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

A shield is just a way to minimize capicitive coupling. If you want the impedance to be greater you’ll have to loose the shield since it couples with the wires and creates capative coupling that slows the electrones down. If you want to uncrease their speed or impedance you’ll need to decrease the capasitive coupling ir increase the current. The latter may be out of the question. Silver have the least capasitive coupling. Copper have the most.

None of that is correct.

[Cornan]

32 minutes ago, mansr said:

None of that is correct.

 

Sorry, the capasitive coupling increase with shielding. Not the other way around. 

Eddy currents increases when shield is applied.

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, Confused said:

Sure, however I was referring to this from JS:

 

 

So what about shielded cables? I hope is now obvious that for shielding to be effective there needs to be a conductive path from one end of the shield to the other. If there is not such a path the only shielding that is going to happen is for high frequencies due to cpacitances involved with the shield.

 

The best way for the shielding to work properly is a separate wire connected to each end of the shield. This is sufficient for shielding from DC to very high frequencies. Note the shield does NOT have to be connected an earth ground, the "ground" of the circuit at either end, or any thing else for that matter. A cable with a shield the is not connected to anything else except itself (ie a separate wire from one end to the other of the shield) will be highly effective in shielding what is inside.

 

 

Is this just for DC cables?

 

Refer back to Larry's post on JSSG 360.

 

The "separate wire connected to each end of the shield," is not a wire, it is a full cylindrical section of tinned copper braid.

[mansr]

12 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Refer back to Larry's post on JSSG 360.

 

The "separate wire connected to each end of the shield," is not a wire, it is a full cylindrical section of tinned copper braid.

Which means the inner shield is shielded by the outer shield. A simple wire inside a shield ought to have the same effect. Has anyone tried this?