A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, marce said:

I use mine with some open baffle, 2X 15" woofers per side some true audiophile Fostex 208s and Fostex super tweaters, this is my Audiophile system not neutral, not totally true reproduction, but fun, we have some small near field monitors that myself and the daughter do when we are playing music, this is why I want some ATC's in my life), my old system is an Audiolab and some KEF 104/2's that I have had since late 1990's. I also have an eclectic mix of bits from over the years in boxes in the loft including TEAC tape decks, about 3 or 4 old DACS (Marantz, Omega an ancient Kenwood that sounds very smooth and enjoyable.) So while I am a cold hearted villain, I do play with stuff and listen, I do it for fun though and don't cliam I am creating true fidelity, because I am not. Over the years I have loved playing with speakers as they give the BIGGEST subjective change, I have tried, transmission line, open baffle, sealed boxes, open baffle, bass relex, the KEFS, even tried Wharfedales Loud panels, what I find is that the different representation a new set of speakers gives, allows you to hear a track slightly differently, it may not be an improvement (only measurements and testing to a known neutral reference would tell) but you hear your music collection a bit different and can enjoy aspects of the music that were not as prominent before... I perceive differences I just don't think they are night and day, nor do I get hung up over ineffable hearing, I'm too busy enjoying the music.

 

Great stuff marce! ?

It is not the name of the gear that makes an audiophile. It is the tech curiousity, the will to make the most of what you've got and the love to the music that make you one. The way I see it you've got it covered! ?

 

I have always wanted to hear the Fostex super tweeters. Do they make a big difference?

[marce]

I'm 56 the kids say so (18 years old). Without them it does sound flatter, the level is controlled by a resistor in the crossover... for ease of equalisation they are in chocolate blocks so when those that can hear high frequency's bog off, I can reduce the attenuation to make up for my aged hearing. Its not much of a lift but does sound to bright to younger ears.

[Cornan]

5 minutes ago, marce said:

I'm 56 the kids say so (18 years old). Without them it does sound flatter, the level is controlled by a resistor in the crossover... for ease of equalisation they are in chocolate blocks so when those that can hear high frequency's bog off, I can reduce the attenuation to make up for my aged hearing. Its not much of a lift but does sound to bright to younger ears.

 

Well, I'm 51 and my old dad have hearing aids in both of his ears. I'll guess I would need those super tweeters sooner or later! ?

 

Is it the TD90A you are using?

 

[marce]

FT17H, not that rich Here is one incantation.

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, marce said:

FT17H, not that rich Here is one incantation.

 

Ok, but $215.- is not that expensive when it comes to speakers https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t90a-top-mount-horn-super-tweeter/. Do you know if it is possible to use super tweeters on active speakers? I use XLR cables for my Monkey Banana Turbo 5. 

 

[Solid-State]

8 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Well, I'm 51 and my old dad have hearing aids in both of his ears. I'll guess I would need those super tweeters sooner or later! ?

 

Is it the TD90A you are using?

 

very nice one

[Cornan]

11 minutes ago, TubeMan said:

very nice one

 

Yeah, I have had my eyes on them for a long time. I am just not sure how to wire them with balanced XLRs? ? I have'nt seen anyone using top-mounted super tweeters on active speakers when searching for answers. 

[flkin]

I'm a new proud owner of the SOtM Trifecta ?. Not really an audiophile poet so suffice to say I'm dumbfounded by the improvement of the sound over my old setup even before breaking in the new components. 

 

My current connections are:

 

Roon to
Orbi WiFi router in HiFi room  (sPS-500@ 12V) to
D-Link DGS105 switch (sPS-500 one leg @7V) with modified regulators, capacitors and a clock input to
sMS200 (sPS-500 second leg@7V) modified to accept two clock inputs to
tX-USBultra (100W Zerozone to LPS-1 @7V) with clock outputs to above switch and sMS200 to
Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT DAC2.0

 

I have a problem with this setup in that sometimes in the middle of a song, the connection from Roon to the sMS200 gets cut off and often requires a reboot of some Trifecta devices to restore the connection. This occurs especially often with Roon upsampled to DSD512 files. Much less so with DSD256 and lower upsampling. But occasionally happens to simple 44.1MHz files too.

 

Never used to have issues with the microRendu. That unit just worked… until it didn’t and would then be a serious issue like micro SD card failure. 

 

I wonder if anyone here can explain what is the issue is and how to resolve this disconnect problem? Or in which order to reboot which Trifecta devices to reconnect the stream? I haven’t work this out yet and it currently seems random. Sometimes rebooting the sMS-200 and reconnecting the USB cable to the LIO DAC2.0 would do the trick, sometimes not. Sometimes switching everything off, waiting for 10 min then restarting would be the only way.

 

Thanks in advance for any information or experience. 

[Speed Racer]

These niggling issues with the sMS-200 products is why I went with the ultraRendu. Well, that and the fact that the sMS200ultra cost a whole lot more with no benefit for me in my setup.

 

I don't think the problem is Roon so I would be contacting SoTM to hear what they have to say.

[flkin]

Yes, I wrote to Kamal from SoTM-USA already and waiting for his reply. I'm hoping the experience users from this thread may have gone through this already and would have some suggestions too.

[LTG2010]

40 minutes ago, flkin said:

I have a problem with this setup in that sometimes in the middle of a song, the connection from Roon to the sMS200 gets cut off and often requires a reboot of some Trifecta devices to restore the connection.

There are some settings in Roon for re sync delay and buffer sizes you could try altering these also check in the Eunhasu set up for the sms200  for similar settings.

[flkin]

Yes I recall seeing something about that in the Eunhasu setup, I'll have a look there. Thanks

[Dev]

For the SOtM Trifecta, I see two configurations

 

1. sms-200Ultra w/ Switch mod + tx-USBUltra

2. tx-USBUltra w/ sms-200 mod & Switch mod

 

For (2), it seems like the sCLK-Ex board in tx-USBUltra is able to use all the 4 clock points but in (1), some of the clock points are wasted in both tx-USBUltra and sms-200Ultra. Also configuration (1) costs more. Which configuration are folks using for the Trifecta ? and what is the difference in audio quality ? Does one sound better than the other ?

 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Ok, but $215.- is not that expensive when it comes to speakers https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t90a-top-mount-horn-super-tweeter/. Do you know if it is possible to use super tweeters on active speakers? I use XLR cables for my Monkey Banana Turbo 5. 

 

 

I think I just found a nifty way to split my XLRs to a pair of super tweeters. I might give that a try with the Fostex T90A instead of buying new speakers!

 

http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=IL-XLR-POSTS

 

[auricgoldfinger]

5 hours ago, flkin said:

Yes I recall seeing something about that in the Eunhasu setup, I'll have a look there. Thanks

 

You can also try varying the Roon settings in Settings > Library > Background Audio Analysis Speed and Settings > Library > On-Demand Audio Analysis Speed

[austinpop]

11 hours ago, flkin said:

I'm a new proud owner of the SOtM Trifecta ?. Not really an audiophile poet so suffice to say I'm dumbfounded by the improvement of the sound over my old setup even before breaking in the new components. 

 

My current connections are:

 

Roon to
Orbi WiFi router in HiFi room  (sPS-500@ 12V) to
D-Link DGS105 switch (sPS-500 one leg @7V) with modified regulators, capacitors and a clock input to
sMS200 (sPS-500 second leg@7V) modified to accept two clock inputs to
tX-USBultra (100W Zerozone to LPS-1 @7V) with clock outputs to above switch and sMS200 to
Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT DAC2.0

 

I have a problem with this setup in that sometimes in the middle of a song, the connection from Roon to the sMS200 gets cut off and often requires a reboot of some Trifecta devices to restore the connection. This occurs especially often with Roon upsampled to DSD512 files. Much less so with DSD256 and lower upsampling. But occasionally happens to simple 44.1MHz files too.

 

Never used to have issues with the microRendu. That unit just worked… until it didn’t and would then be a serious issue like micro SD card failure. 

 

I wonder if anyone here can explain what is the issue is and how to resolve this disconnect problem? Or in which order to reboot which Trifecta devices to reconnect the stream? I haven’t work this out yet and it currently seems random. Sometimes rebooting the sMS-200 and reconnecting the USB cable to the LIO DAC2.0 would do the trick, sometimes not. Sometimes switching everything off, waiting for 10 min then restarting would be the only way.

 

Thanks in advance for any information or experience. 

 

First off, congratulations! Glad you're enjoying the SQ of your trifecta.

 

Regarding the issue, clearly it gets worse with higher data throughput. You'd think that even with DSD512 the demand is only 22 Mbps, but you still need to make sure your network is capable. I have seen this before, - not at DSD512 - but at DXD, and I traced it back to a couple of devices upstream of my reclocked switch. For me, the problem was solved by replacing my rental broadband modem/router with a dedicated Netgear modem, a TP-Link Archer C7 router, and a GS105 switch. 

 

So double check your network path all the way from the ingress from your ISP to your reclocked switch. Reseat ethernet cables in their ports. Basic stuff.

 

Also, play with Roon settings on both the Core and Roon Ready on the sMS:

• Core:
• 
• Roon Ready on sMS:
• 

Hope some of this helps resolve the issue.

 

As for recovery, I find the easiest and most consistent is to restart the sMS-200. Occasionally, I'd have to first power cycle the tX, then the switch, and finally the sMS.

[austinpop]

10 hours ago, Dev said:

For the SOtM Trifecta, I see two configurations

 

1. sms-200Ultra w/ Switch mod + tx-USBUltra

2. tx-USBUltra w/ sms-200 mod & Switch mod

 

For (2), it seems like the sCLK-Ex board in tx-USBUltra is able to use all the 4 clock points but in (1), some of the clock points are wasted in both tx-USBUltra and sms-200Ultra. Also configuration (1) costs more. Which configuration are folks using for the Trifecta ? and what is the difference in audio quality ? Does one sound better than the other ?

 

 

To my ears, 1 and 2 sound virtually identical. I highly recommend 2 when anyone asks me, because I consider it the real sweet spot in value for money. Without trying to be immodest, I believe I used the term trifecta first in this thread, and it was to describe this configuration.

 

Config 1 really only makes sense if you can fully utilize all 8 clock points you get from having 2 sCLK-EX boards.

[d_elm]

Is the USB output SQ of the tx-USBultra the same as sMS-200ultra ?   In other words is the same output circuit used in both ?  Is the only difference the usage of internal clocks ?  I would like to use a sMS-200ultra with a moded FS105v2, and later add an external clock.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, d_elm said:

Is the USB output SQ of the tx-USBultra the same as sMS-200ultra ?   In other words is the same output circuit used in both ?  Is the only difference the usage of internal clocks ?  I would like to use a sMS-200ultra with a moded FS105v2, and later add an external clock.

 

You should probably ask May that question, since I don't know the internals of the sMS-200ultra USB interface vs. the tX-USBultra.

 

Observationally, I and many others have found that the even with a modded switch and sMS-200ultra, the tX-USBultra adds another quantum of SQ. I'm not sure if that is a function of the relative quality of their respective USB interfaces, or an effect of clock chaining. 

 

[Speed Racer]

What does an Ethernet clock in a switch have to do with a USB clock? The answer is "nothing"......

[Dev]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

To my ears, 1 and 2 sound virtually identical. I highly recommend 2 when anyone asks me, because I consider it the real sweet spot in value for money. Without trying to be immodest, I believe I used the term trifecta first in this thread, and it was to describe this configuration.

 

Config 1 really only makes sense if you can fully utilize all 8 clock points you get from having 2 sCLK-EX boards.

 

Thanks! That's exactly my point as well. At the same time, I am a bit confused as to with option (2) why is the sCLK-Ex board installed in tx-USBUltra instead of sms-200 ? With (2), we are only talking about a single sCLK-Ex board and it would make much sense if the board resides inside the sms-200 chassis. The advantage would be that it only runs 2 x SMB connectors - one to the tx-USB and the other to the switch, instead of running 3 x SMB connectors if the sCLK-Ex were to be installed in the tx-USB, i.e. two to sms-200 and one to switch.

 

 

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

What does an Ethernet clock in a switch have to do with a USB clock? The answer is "nothing"......

 

You will never know

[beessy]

23 hours ago, flkin said:

I'm a new proud owner of the SOtM Trifecta ?. Not really an audiophile poet so suffice to say I'm dumbfounded by the improvement of the sound over my old setup even before breaking in the new components. 

 

My current connections are:

 

Roon to
Orbi WiFi router in HiFi room  (sPS-500@ 12V) to
D-Link DGS105 switch (sPS-500 one leg @7V) with modified regulators, capacitors and a clock input to
sMS200 (sPS-500 second leg@7V) modified to accept two clock inputs to
tX-USBultra (100W Zerozone to LPS-1 @7V) with clock outputs to above switch and sMS200 to
Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT DAC2.0

 

I have a problem with this setup in that sometimes in the middle of a song, the connection from Roon to the sMS200 gets cut off and often requires a reboot of some Trifecta devices to restore the connection. This occurs especially often with Roon upsampled to DSD512 files. Much less so with DSD256 and lower upsampling. But occasionally happens to simple 44.1MHz files too.

 

Never used to have issues with the microRendu. That unit just worked… until it didn’t and would then be a serious issue like micro SD card failure. 

 

I wonder if anyone here can explain what is the issue is and how to resolve this disconnect problem? Or in which order to reboot which Trifecta devices to reconnect the stream? I haven’t work this out yet and it currently seems random. Sometimes rebooting the sMS-200 and reconnecting the USB cable to the LIO DAC2.0 would do the trick, sometimes not. Sometimes switching everything off, waiting for 10 min then restarting would be the only way.

 

Thanks in advance for any information or experience. 

Hi

 

I have same issue since roon  build 274 when i use dsd. From roon remote, the track freezes 2s and there is a message ’server lost and trying re-connection’. After 3s the server back on and track pause at the beginning.

 

I think it is a network or roon issue.

[flkin]

18 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

You can also try varying the Roon settings in Settings > Library > Background Audio Analysis Speed and Settings > Library > On-Demand Audio Analysis Speed

 

Wouldn't that be related to Roon scanning the file for dynamic range info and the display for sound levels in the track? I believe this is done only once per file after which the data is stored in Roon. 

[flkin]

13 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

First off, congratulations! Glad you're enjoying the SQ of your trifecta.

 

Regarding the issue, clearly it gets worse with higher data throughput. You'd think that even with DSD512 the demand is only 22 Mbps, but you still need to make sure your network is capable. I have seen this before, - not at DSD512 - but at DXD, and I traced it back to a couple of devices upstream of my reclocked switch. For me, the problem was solved by replacing my rental broadband modem/router with a dedicated Netgear modem, a TP-Link Archer C7 router, and a GS105 switch. 

 

So double check your network path all the way from the ingress from your ISP to your reclocked switch. Reseat ethernet cables in their ports. Basic stuff.

 

Also, play with Roon settings on both the Core and Roon Ready on the sMS:

• Core:
• 
• Roon Ready on sMS:
• 

Hope some of this helps resolve the issue.

 

As for recovery, I find the easiest and most consistent is to restart the sMS-200. Occasionally, I'd have to first power cycle the tX, then the switch, and finally the sMS.

 

Thanks for your suggestions, your posts and findings are part of the reason why I started this Trifecta path :-)

 

I fiddled with the Resync Delay (from 0.2 to 0.3) and keeping the Buffer Duration at 0.1 seems to help. Kamal from SOtM suggests 0.5 but I'm finding that the playback speed starts too slowing with this setting. Perhaps having 2 resync delays in Roon and the sMS-200 causes this streaming problem? If Roon is holding back data for sync purposes at 500ms this may cause the sMS-200 to loose data long enough to hang, unless it's Resync Delay is set longer or long enough to receive the data from Roon. Does this make sense? 

 

So far since this adjustment, I haven't had a hang yet and DSD512 files are playing just fine.

 

Haven't tried changing the Roon side Resync Delay yet but will leave this as an option to test just in case I still have issues later.