A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, limniscate said:

No need since I'm also getting a SR7DRMR2XL.  I ordered mine a few days after you ordered yours.

 

Great, so you'll do the direct USB to a qualified (not MBP..sorry Rajiv) server comparison with the sotm rig?

[austinpop]

11 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

... qualified server ...

 

How would you define this? What "qualified server" is a fair comparison with an endpoint-based trifecta?

 

Something like @mozes's VR Mini-powered Nimitra server? Or @lmitche's optimizations? It's a moving target.

 

I've said it before - the only one on this thread who is truly spanning both worlds is @romaz, and I for one, am content to enjoy my setup until he returns with a report of his explorations.

 

 

[Johnseye]

17 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

How would you define this? What "qualified server" is a fair comparison with an endpoint-based trifecta?

 

Something like @mozes's VR Mini-powered Nimitra server? Or @lmitche's optimizations? It's a moving target.

 

I've said it before - the only one on this thread who is truly spanning both worlds is @romaz, and I for one, am content to enjoy my setup until he returns with a report of his explorations.

 

 

 

No offense was intended.  Roy is the closest to achieving this, but by throwing a lot of cash at some experimentation.  Great for him, but many of us don't have that much disposable cash for trial and error.  I already discussed previously what I invested in only a few months and look what's changed.  Moving target it is.

 

I think that first off it needs to be a device that can be powered by a LPSU.  Being able to power the server cleanly is critical.  To keep the cost down, and to limit unnecessary components, it should be as simple as possible.  No fans anywhere. The ability to use a custom USB card.  A next step would be what Roy is doing with replacing mobo components, including clocks.  Then ensuring every possible component or service not applicable is disabled.  Using AO and/or Fidelizer to assist.  Process Lasso to prioritize the playback or upsampling application.

 

That would be a start.  I'm sure we could go further with simplifying the board to something a bit more powerful than an mR or sMS but only having the needed components physically present.  Once someone builds this, and they are already starting to in limited ways, it will be a game changer (no, the Nimitra and SMG are not there yet).  It's what I've been looking for since getting into stored digital audio and what I try to build on my own with the limited resources I can get.  It really comes down to someone manufacturing a mobo with high quality audiophile components specific to that need.

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Something like @mozes's VR Mini-powered Nimitra server? Or @lmitche It's a moving target.

 

I've said it before - the only one on this thread who is truly spanning both worlds is @romaz

Hmmm, well I get your point but it's not entirely true.  As I raised yesterday, many of us tried the 2 and 3 box solution 2 and 3 years ago. We then simplified to a one box solution.

 

Happily, a lot of new technology has come to market since then, especially in 2016 and 2017. Later generations of CAers try or retry the multi-box solution.  That's great,  but some of us have been there and done that.

 

Things are moving quickly on all fronts. We see high quality dialog between the consumer and Hw/Sw manufacturers that turns into product. We are all making great progress and learning there is no right way forward. What a great time to be in this hobby.

 

Remember what the wise man said, "We are all bozos on this bus!"

[Johnseye]

47 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Remember what the wise man said, "We are all bozos on this bus!"

 

[Elberoth]

Here is my SOtM sMS-200 setup:

 

- SOtM sMS-200

- Jcat USB Isolator

- Wyred 4 Sound Recovery

- 2x Uptone LPS-1

- Uptone JS-2

 

Sounds better than the $19.000 Aurender W-20 I have on hand. 

 

I think I will try Jcat Femto Ethernet card next.

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

...many of us tried the 2 and 3 box solution 2 and 3 years ago. We then simplified to a one box solution.

 

...Later generations of CAers try or retry the multi-box solution.  That's great,  but some of us have been there and done that.

 

My sense is it's more of a pendulum than a linear evolution!

 

But whatever floats your boat.  

[austinpop]

A few days ago, @romaz wrote this about his "reviewer friend":

 

On 7/2/2017 at 6:36 PM, romaz said:

My reviewer friend now has both the IR and the tX-USBultra in his possession.  Not wanting to steal too much of his thunder as he has yet to publish his review on his site, what I will say is that he loves them both and prefers them both together just as you do although he prefers his IR after the tX-USBultra and so once again, personal preference.

 

And today, this came out. https://audiobacon.net/2017/07/11/uptone-audio-iso-regen-review/

 

Looks like this may be the friend! His conclusions seem to be pretty much in line with Eric's and my review, with the exception of the position of the ISO-Regen in the chain.

[seeteeyou]

Interesting discovery?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/32132-allo-sparky-usbridge/?page=3#comment-694978

Quote

That means: uspcb most important!
That means: usb cable have negative effect
That means : iso regen helps,but not much
not arrived my usbridge, don't know need iso regen or not.

 

[Dev]

5 hours ago, Elberoth said:

Here is my SOtM sMS-200 setup:

 

- SOtM sMS-200

- Jcat USB Isolator

- Wyred 4 Sound Recovery

- 2x Uptone LPS-1

- Uptone JS-2

 

Sounds better than the $19.000 Aurender W-20 I have on hand. 

 

I think I will try Jcat Femto Ethernet card next.

 

 

Wow....

 

By any chance did you try the ISO-R replacing the JCAT USB Isolator and RUR ?

 

From the figure it appears that the JS-2 is powering both the LPS-1 ? How much do you think the JS-2 powering the LPS-1s contributes to the sound ?

[kennyb123]

I just pulled out my microRendu so that it can be sent out for the 1.4 upgrade.  As an interim solution, I connected my Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 to the ISO REGEN via my Audience Au24 SE USB cable.  

 

Ugh,  I did myself a major disservice by spoiling myself microRendu>USPCB>ISO REGEN>USPCB.  What I hear now is not pleasant to the ears.  Sniff, sniff.  I'm sure it would be worse without the ISO REGEN, but I now know that USB cables are no match for the USPCB.

 

It looks like I will be spinning vinyl while I await the return of the microRendu.  Ooooh guess I should spin my "One Step" presssing of "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" tonight.  :-)

[ElviaCaprice]

26 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

I just pulled out my microRendu so that it can be sent out for the 1.4 upgrade.  As an interim solution, I connected my Mac Mini/MMK/JS-2 to the ISO REGEN via my Audience Au24 SE USB cable.  

 

Ugh,  I did myself a major disservice by spoiling myself microRendu>USPCB>ISO REGEN>USPCB.  What I hear now is not pleasant to the ears.  Sniff, sniff.  I'm sure it would be worse without the ISO REGEN, but I now know that USB cables are no match for the USPCB.

 

It looks like I will be spinning vinyl while I await the return of the microRendu.  Ooooh guess I should spin my "One Step" presssing of "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" tonight.  :-)

That's a shame that you couldn't keep the USPCB between the server and the ISO Regen.  Would have been an interesting comparison.

[kennyb123]

15 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

That's a shame that you couldn't keep the USPCB between the server and the ISO Regen.  Would have been an interesting comparison.

  

There's a slight chance I might be able to make that work.  It won't be easy but I'll see what I can do over the weekend.

[hurka]

sms200 Ultra/Lps1-USPCB-singxer f1/Lps 2-i2sDac

somebody can trial this?

[Elberoth]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

 

Wow....

 

By any chance did you try the ISO-R replacing the JCAT USB Isolator and RUR ?

 

From the figure it appears that the JS-2 is powering both the LPS-1 ? How much do you think the JS-2 powering the LPS-1s contributes to the sound ?

 

I did, but I need to spent more time with ISO Regen for any conclusions. A separate Jcat USB Isolator + Wyred 4 Sound Recovery vs ISO Regen thread is in the cards.

[Johnseye]

14 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Interesting discovery?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/32132-allo-sparky-usbridge/?page=3#comment-694978

 

 

Doubt it.  Sadly we have about 3 or 4 conflicting opinions on what sounds better depending on the device or placement order of the device.  Consensus would lead us to a valid conclusion.  Because there is none yet I can't see any conclusion. 

[unbalanced output]

So,  it seems the USPCB is really the holy grail of USB connection for the microR and Regens. Right now I have the UltraR on order, and the USPCB won't fit it. Are we already allowed to speculate what would be the ideal topology for the UltraRendu?

 

I don't currently own any networked source, therefore I don't have much to contribute to this thread so far. 

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, unbalanced output said:

So,  it seems the USPCB is really the holy grail of USB connection for the microR and Regens. Right now I have the UltraR on order, and the USPCB won't fit it.

 

It appears that the 90 degree USPCB might stand a chance of working, particularly if it runs directly to an ISO REGEN.  I'll be looking forward to the reports.

 

My microRendu made it to the post office today.  I got home a few minutes ago, plopped myself in my chair and started playback.  Within seconds I stopped playback.  I'd rather sit in silence.  

[austinpop]

Another 50 hours on the ISO-R (up to about 170 hours), and I feel it continues to improve even at this stage of burn-in. I've spent another long session this evening with another album I keep coming back to of late:

 

 

I've really run out of superlatives. I find myself sitting down for a few minutes and spending hours!

 

I did want to mention a couple of tweaks that I think have finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound that the ISO-Regen didn't quite mitigate.

• Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!
  • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
  • Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII
  • Both of the above contributed to a blacker background, and sounds more relaxed and smooth
• Swap the balanced interconnects from the DAC to the amp. I've been enjoying the Ayre Signature's for quite a while now, but I happened to pick up a pair of really old (10+ years at least) Cardas Golden Cross cables from a friend.
  • Man, these just vanquished the last trace of thinness!
  • This is an amazing cable, as it should be for something that retailed for more than $1k in the day. 

In the next day or two, we should be doing another listening session at Eric's, so will report on that soon. I suspect many folks will want to know how this combo sounds:

• modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > SU-1

More soon.

[Cornan]

20 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Another 50 hours on the ISO-R (up to about 170 hours), and I feel it continues to improve even at this stage of burn-in. I've spent another long session this evening with another album I keep coming back to of late:

 

 

I've really run out of superlatives. I find myself sitting down for a few minutes and spending hours!

 

I did want to mention a couple of tweaks that I think have finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound that the ISO-Regen didn't quite mitigate.

• Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!
  • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
  • Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII
  • Both of the above contributed to a blacker background, and sounds more relaxed and smooth
• Swap the balanced interconnects from the DAC to the amp. I've been enjoying the Ayre Signature's for quite a while now, but I happened to pick up a pair of really old (10+ years at least) Cardas Golden Cross cables from a friend.
  • Man, these just vanquished the last trace of thinness!
  • This is an amazing cable, as it should be for something that retailed for more than $1k in the day. 

In the next day or two, we should be doing another listening session at Eric's, so will report on that soon. I suspect many folks will want to know how this combo sounds:

• modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > SU-1

More soon.

 

Great to hear Rajiv! You are most certainly worth it. Enjoy the fruits! ?

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!

• Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
• Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII

Hi Rajiv, 

 

Thanks for the post. Though I'm not sure I follow the above. 

 

Are the 3 meanwell's the power supplies for your LPS-1 collection? 

 

And the Dectet is a power conditioner. So are you finding that even though the meanwell's are switching PSUs themselves they still benefit from getting a cleaner AC supply? 

 

I'm curious as my serious kit is all on an IsoTek conditioner. Or on LPS-1"s. But the supplies for everything else are on a £50 basic socket with a filter. I forget the name. 

 

So is your hypothesis that "dirty" AC noise still makes it through the LPS-1? 

 

Many Thanks, 

Alan 

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Another 50 hours on the ISO-R (up to about 170 hours), and I feel it continues to improve even at this stage of burn-in. I've spent another long session this evening with another album I keep coming back to of late:

 

 

I've really run out of superlatives. I find myself sitting down for a few minutes and spending hours!

 

I did want to mention a couple of tweaks that I think have finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound that the ISO-Regen didn't quite mitigate.

• Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!
  • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
  • Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII
  • Both of the above contributed to a blacker background, and sounds more relaxed and smooth
• Swap the balanced interconnects from the DAC to the amp. I've been enjoying the Ayre Signature's for quite a while now, but I happened to pick up a pair of really old (10+ years at least) Cardas Golden Cross cables from a friend.
  • Man, these just vanquished the last trace of thinness!
  • This is an amazing cable, as it should be for something that retailed for more than $1k in the day. 

In the next day or two, we should be doing another listening session at Eric's, so will report on that soon. I suspect many folks will want to know how this combo sounds:

• modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > SU-1

More soon.

Rajiv, 3 Meanwells wow! Looks like you've done a great job of isolating them, however you may be surprised by the sound quality impact of a good, not great, LPS replacement for the Meanwells.

 

With a 12 volt Sigma 11 based lps to power 2 lps-1s  the difference in SQ is significant here. The B&K 1604a IT powers the Sigma 11 lps with a Supra AC cable.

 

 

[AmusedToD]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

Another 50 hours on the ISO-R (up to about 170 hours), and I feel it continues to improve even at this stage of burn-in. I've spent another long session this evening with another album I keep coming back to of late:

 

 

I've really run out of superlatives. I find myself sitting down for a few minutes and spending hours!

 

I did want to mention a couple of tweaks that I think have finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound that the ISO-Regen didn't quite mitigate.

• Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!
  • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
  • Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII
  • Both of the above contributed to a blacker background, and sounds more relaxed and smooth
• Swap the balanced interconnects from the DAC to the amp. I've been enjoying the Ayre Signature's for quite a while now, but I happened to pick up a pair of really old (10+ years at least) Cardas Golden Cross cables from a friend.
  • Man, these just vanquished the last trace of thinness!
  • This is an amazing cable, as it should be for something that retailed for more than $1k in the day. 

In the next day or two, we should be doing another listening session at Eric's, so will report on that soon. I suspect many folks will want to know how this combo sounds:

• modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > SU-1

More soon.

 

@austinpop, eager to read the impressions, my setup for now is sms200Ultra > Curious link USB > SU-1 (stock) > i2S HDMI > Holo Spring level 3

 

I wonder if you could start with this setup (just the sms200Ultra > SU-1), and then add component after component (the modded switch, then the ISO Regen) and try to describe the level of perceived sonic improvements. It would mean a lot to me in terms of making a buying decision in the future.

 

Many thanks in advance!

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi Rajiv, 

 

Thanks for the post. Though I'm not sure I follow the above. 

 

Are the 3 meanwell's the power supplies for your LPS-1 collection? 

 

And the Dectet is a power conditioner. So are you finding that even though the meanwell's are switching PSUs themselves they still benefit from getting a cleaner AC supply? 

 

I'm curious as my serious kit is all on an IsoTek conditioner. Or on LPS-1"s. But the supplies for everything else are on a £50 basic socket with a filter. I forget the name. 

 

So is your hypothesis that "dirty" AC noise still makes it through the LPS-1? 

 

Many Thanks, 

Alan 

 

Yes the Meanwells are for the LPS-1s.

 

My system is already pretty resilient to AC mains noise. My P5 Regenerator, which completely regenerates the input AC, has sonically demonstrated its positive impact.

 

I don't put too much stock in the Dectet other than it's a good power strip. It was previously plugged into an outlet on the P5, and the Meanwells plugged into the strip.

 

I think my experiments are confirming that while the LPS-1s do an effective job blocking AC mains noise from getting to the DC output, the Meanwells are putting noise back into the AC, as SMPSes do. 

 

The B&K IT between the P5 and the Dectet strip blocks that "backwash."

 

The effect of the power cable swap is fairly typical, I'd say.

[Johnseye]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

Another 50 hours on the ISO-R (up to about 170 hours), and I feel it continues to improve even at this stage of burn-in. I've spent another long session this evening with another album I keep coming back to of late:

 

 

I've really run out of superlatives. I find myself sitting down for a few minutes and spending hours!

 

I did want to mention a couple of tweaks that I think have finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound that the ISO-Regen didn't quite mitigate.

• Suppress the noise backwash from the Meanwell energizing supplies - I have 3 of these, remember!
  • Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer
  • Replace the Meanwell power cords with modestly upgraded cords - Pangea AC-14SE MkII
  • Both of the above contributed to a blacker background, and sounds more relaxed and smooth
• Swap the balanced interconnects from the DAC to the amp. I've been enjoying the Ayre Signature's for quite a while now, but I happened to pick up a pair of really old (10+ years at least) Cardas Golden Cross cables from a friend.
  • Man, these just vanquished the last trace of thinness!
  • This is an amazing cable, as it should be for something that retailed for more than $1k in the day. 

In the next day or two, we should be doing another listening session at Eric's, so will report on that soon. I suspect many folks will want to know how this combo sounds:

• modded switch > sMS-200ultra > ISO-Regen > SU-1

More soon.

 

Good stuff Rajiv.  Lots of changes going on.  When I hear you say "finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound" and "these just vanquished the last trace of thinness" I think to myself, what are we really trying to achieve with these devices?  If we think in painting terms, are we just painting different shades or colors of the music to achieve a sound that is more pleasing to our ears?

 

What is each reviewers ultimate goal when listening to these devices?  Are we looking to reduce noise as much as possible, thus revealing as much of the music as possible, are we looking for a sound that most closely represents live or an analog sourced recording, or are we looking for a sound that is most pleasing to our ear and does that qualification change?

 

There are certain components that contribute to a thin sound.  Solid state vs tube in the pre or amp is one.  Cable material is another.  And I wonder how you came to the conclusion that SOtM products sound thin because I've come to that same conclusion myself.  What is your point of reference in which a device sounds fatter that you are measuring against?  I found that the microRendu sounded fatter.  However the sms-200 was slightly clearer while also sounding thinner at the same time.  I think it may be hard to get one without the other, but I chose thin and clear vs. fat and clouded.  Analog music such as that from vinyl is one exception.  I think that can be clear and fat.  Almost buttery, but it's also noisy.  When I listen to music that's my reference point.  I can hear the difference between an analog sourced piece of vinyl and a digital sourced.  It's not hard, one sounds thinner than the other.  My end goal is to hear digital music as clearly as possible, with as little extraneous noise as possible, providing a clean, transparent, multi dimensional image that is buttery like analog.  That's my point of reference and critical in understanding why I think a device, a musical source or a setting may sound better than another.  It's the compass that guides my audio decisions.