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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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romaz   
It would be nice if someone made an audio spec switch/router that would do similar.

I agree. I'm waiting for someone to develop an internet modem/router/switch with linear regulators, a really good clock and built-in optical isolation.

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romaz   
Let's hope SOtM, Sonore, small green computer are interested.

This is what I am hoping to accomplish with this thread. This area of audio over ethernet seems to be rapidly evolving and ripe for more significant improvements.

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bunno77   
This is what I am hoping to accomplish with this thread. This area of audio over ethernet seems to be rapidly evolving and ripe for more significant improvements.

Want to start a business with me? Haha

 

- Peach Audio Balanced Isolation Power Supply, Uptone LPS-1, Sonore microRendu, Geek Pulse S Infinity, McIntosh MA2275, Paradigm 30th Anniversary Tributes, SVS SB13-Ultra

 

- Audioquest DragonFly v1.2, Marantz PM-15S1, Definitive Technology BP7006

 

- Cambridge 752BD (Oppomod PSU), Halcro MC50, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen Mod), Cyenne Audio CY-3100,

Denon AVR-4520, Aaron ATS-5, Aaron CC-250, Epos Epic 5, Cambridge Audio Azur 551R V2, Bose 251, M&K VF-80,

Van Den Hul + Isotek DIY cables

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Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention, I would say that this improvement is quite significant, nonetheless, and once you hear it, I suspect you will not wish to go back to your previous setup. More importantly, this is neither difficult nor expensive to implement.

 

 

Much has been said about how ethernet renderers like the microRendu and the sMS-200 are immune to upstream components. Because ethernet is transformer coupled, it is inherently galvanically isolated and because of the error correcting packet protocol it employs, data is always bit-perfect and so it would seem that ethernet is an ideal data delivery vehicle for a digital audio stream. Indeed, when I first purchased my microRendu back in May, I tested it with a variety of standard sources including a Windows NUC, Windows laptop, Mac Pro, Macbook Pro and sonicTransporter and even when a certain source was powered by my HDPlex, I noticed no significant difference among these sources, at least not enough to care which one was feeding my microRendu. I have also explored and compared a variety of ethernet optimization techniques including optical isolation with FMCs (powered by LPS-1), an audiophile switch with TCXO clock by Paul Pang (powered by LPS-1) and various audiophile ethernet cables (BJC CAT 6A, SOtM dCBL-CAT6 with iSO-CAT6, AQ Vodka + Diamond, Supra CAT8, WireWorld Silver Starlight CAT8) and while they can and do make a difference, even collectively, the difference has never been that great, certainly not enough to want to spend lots of effort or money on these things. At least that has been my experience and so this is a compliment to both the microRendu and the sMS-200, that they are that immune to what is upstream...or are they?

 

Like with many of you, things changed when I received my LPS-1 as this power supply was eye opening in how it transformed my microRendu. This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply would also transform my upstream components including a simple NUC or Mac Mini even with the microRendu or sMS-200 in place (I own both of these units). It was surprising to find out that even my internet modem/router similarly benefited. It turns out that while ethernet is good for isolating noise, it cannot fix a signal already molested at the modem/router or music server level. In the same way that the LPS-1 improved both the macro and microdynamic capabilities of my microRendu, my Paul Hynes SR7 has also magically transformed my modified Mac Mini and internet modem/router and both the microRendu and sMS-200 fully reveal these benefits but truth be told, these benefits are much more fully realized if these endpoints themselves are powered by a low impedance PSU. This is not some mild transformation that you need to blind test to convince yourself is real, this is something a semi-deaf person can distinguish because the dynamic contrasts with the Paul Hynes SR7 driving both my Mac Mini and internet modem/router is that much more thunderous, enough so that I have had to literally turn my subwoofer down a notch. If you think about it, there's no good reason why this shouldn't be happening. The whole purpose of the microRendu or sMS-200 and devices like the USB Regen is to present a DAC with a signal of the highest integrity. Why wouldn't the microRendu or sMS-200 similarly benefit from being presented with high signal integrity by the components before it?

 

I have come to the conclusion that this impact has more to do with low impedance than the low noise characteristics of the power supply fronting these upstream devices because as you recall, ethernet is transformer coupled and so is inherently galvanically isolated and with the FMCs that I employ in my network (which are powered by my LPS-1), no RF noise or leakage current should be reaching my microRendu or sMS-200. What is the measured output impedance of the Paul Hynes SR7? According to Paul, his SR5 and SR7 measure <3 millohms from DC to 100kHz and so consider this number as a reference point for comparison. Having asked around, it seems no one else can provide these impedance measurements over what John Swenson describes to be his ideal frequency range either because they don't own the measuring equipment to do so or because they don't believe this spec is important. What I can tell you is that neither my HDPlex or Teradak are low impedance LPSUs because neither of these units are good enough to allow me to distinguish one source from another when fronted by either the microRendu or sMS-200 and both are soundly trounced by my LPS-1 and my SR7 when it comes to soundstage dimensionality. While I have not had the opportunity to compare the Sonore Signature Power Supply to either of these two units, based on what I am hearing from respected sources and conversations I have had with Barrows, I have no doubt this is an excellent and very low impedance PSU. Based on how good the LPS-1 is, logic would suggest Vinnie Rossi's ultracap-based supply is likely of similar caliber. The problem with these other supplies is that neither of them have enough juice to power a Mac Mini, Nuc or my TP-Link internet modem/router as each of these devices require at least 12V/3.5A.

 

Of course, this discovery led to quite a bit of curiosity about other areas. What would happen if I directly connected my Mac Mini to either my microRendu or sMS-200? Intuitively, I had a hard time believing this should make a difference. If so, why weren't the microRendu or sMS-200 designed by their wise creators to connect this way? I further had a difficult time believing my internet modem/router or my Paul Pang switch with TCXO clock should have any real detrimental impact on either of these endpoints since the modem/router was currently being powered by my Paul Hynes SR7 and my Paul Pang switch was being powered by my LPS-1 and moreover, I had optical isolation in place and yet Mark Jenkins, owner and developer of the Antipodes line of music servers, had this to say about his latest generation Roon Ready DX music server. This excerpt is taken from John Darko's review of this latest generation DX server:

 

"A third way to plumb Roon inside the DX is to have Roon Core talk to Roon Ready directly. Think of this scenario as Roon playing out the server-client model not on a LAN but inside a single computer.

 

Jenkins clarifies: "They [Roon Core and Roon Ready] talk using RAAT but when they are in the same device they do not need to use the not-so-good comms layers that sit underneath RAAT when the two apps talk across a network."

I'm not sure I know what Mark meant by this exactly but he details a greater clarity and immediacy to the sound of Roon using this method and so I felt compelled to try and create this direct connection between my Mac Mini and my microRendu/sMS-200. This wouldn't be so difficult if either device had the ability to assign itself a static IP. Unfortunately, this was never possible with the microRendu and this feature was taken away from the sMS-200 after firmware 1.9 and because each device must be assigned an IP address by a router for control purposes, it didn't appear as if there would be an easy way to accomplish this.

 

It turns out OSX can function as its own DHCP server and so I used El Capitan to assign an IP address to one of the two ethernet ports I have on my Mac Mini (the Mac Mini comes natively with only one ethernet port but my Thunderbolt hub comes with its own ethernet port thereby giving me two such ports). I connected my sMS-200 to one port and my router to the other port and it worked but there were problems. Because OSX insisted on connecting this second port on a separate subnet, my sMS-200 had no outlet to the internet (for Tidal streaming) nor could it be controlled remotely by my iPad and so this was a "no go." When I manually forced both ports to be on the same subnet, my Mac Mini would get confused as to which ethernet port had control and it would lock up. It then dawned on me that I could bridge the two ethernet ports and BINGO! This accomplished exactly what I wanted to accomplish. Both ethernet ports were now on the same subnet and with one port connected directly to my sMS-200 and the other port connected directly to my router, everything was running smoothly. I could now easily access the sMS-200 remotely from my iPad and other machines that were on the network and the sMS-200 could access the internet. While I have not yet tried my microRendu this way (it is presently on loan), I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way. What is interesting is with this bridged configuration, my internet modem/router is now responsible for assigning the sMS-200 an IP address and yet the sMS-200 is physically directly connected to my Mac Mini without the intermediary "not so good comm layers" that Mark Jenkins describes.

 

So how does this direct connection sound? Simply glorious! While a low impedance power supply brings depth and dynamics to my upstream components, this direct connection brings amazing clarity and immediacy. It's as if one very thick veil has been removed and that my seat has been upgraded from the balcony to the stalls. I would rate the impact of this as equivalent in magnitude to employing a low impedance PSU. Many of you are aware of the claims many are making on several threads here on CA but also on HeadFi of how RedNet and Dante provides this "you are there" clarity. I had a ReNet 3 in my home for evaluation for nearly a month and I agree, it provides this beguiling sense of clarity that has to be heard to be appreciated although the problem with RedNet, I believe, is its inferior switching PSU. These units sound flat and dimensionless compared to my described setup above and so this clarity that RedNet brings almost sounds sterile and lifeless in comparison. Regardless, proponents of RedNet have suggested the problem with USB endpoints like the microRendu and sMS-200 is with USB. What I am hearing suggests USB is not the problem but perhaps the Dante technology by Audinate that RedNet utilizes has figured out how to eliminate the impact of these "not so good comms" in the network signal path. I have now been listening to this arrangement for much of the past week and so the initial emotions that can cloud one's judgement have settled down and my opinion remains the same as the first moment I heard it. To borrow from Chris Connaker, after all of this, I can unequivocally say that my audio system has never sounded better than it has now. For me, there is no going back.

 

For those interested in reproducing what I have done, first of all, you will need a music server with 2 ethernet ports. Current Mac Pros already have 2 ethernet ports. Mac Minis do not but I can verify that you can add a Thunderbolt ethernet port and it works very well. Many Windows PCs have 2 ethernet ports and if not, if you have a spare PCI or PCIE slot, you could inexpensively add one. Will a USB ethernet connection work? I don't see why not but I haven't tried it and I don't know how it will sound. I do know that you can't bridge a wi-fi connection and an ethernet connection.

 

So how do you bridge 2 ethernet ports? If you are on Linux, I can't help you but I'm sure it's possible. If you are on a Mac, here are the fairly simple instructions that I followed. Feel free to use DHCP but you are also free to assign a static IP:

 

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH18510?locale=en_US

 

For Windows, @jelt2359 has confirmed for me that the following directions below worked on his Windows 10 Nuc although he had to manually configure the bridge's DNS and IP addresses.

 

How to create a Network Bridge in Windows 10/8/7

 

Obviously, if you decide to try this, please report back your findings here. If there is consensus that this improvement is universal, perhaps Sonore and SOtM can be convinced to allow their units to be configured to be directly accessed more easily.

This is very exciting. Let me suggest the steps for those of us who are not experts on networking

 

1) connect pc to router with 1 of 2 Ethernet ports on pc

2) connect pc to microRendu with other Ethernet port

3) assign a manual static set of descriptors for both networks

4) go to instructions for bridging these 2 separate networks

 

I googled how to set manual addresses etc and still don't understand. Anybody that can help on this would be greatly appreciated. I know where to get my microRendu isp address but what about my regular router isp. Where is that?

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Interesting, I think this is essentially what I was planning on doing, but wasn't sure if it would yield good results...

 

With an "audio tweaked Windows 10 PC" + an LPS powered Elfidelity USB card occupying a PCI slot. (Because I already own this)

 

I plan to use a "USB to Ethernet Adaptor Plug" on the LPS powered USB card... straight to the mircoRendu or sms-200

 

Jriver will be set to DLNA mode, I will control everything from that PC, no separate NAS, no local network router.

 

I guess I should expect pleasing results then?

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jtwrace   
I agree. I'm waiting for someone to develop an internet modem/router/switch with linear regulators, a really good clock and built-in optical isolation.

 

I don't see any benefit in that.

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Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention, I would say that this improvement is quite significant, nonetheless, and once you hear it, I suspect you will not wish to go back to your previous setup. More importantly, this is neither difficult nor expensive to implement.

 

Much has been said about how ethernet renderers like the microRendu and the sMS-200 are immune to upstream components. Because ethernet is transformer coupled, it is inherently galvanically isolated and because of the error correcting packet protocol it employs, data is always bit-perfect and so it would seem that ethernet is an ideal data delivery vehicle for a digital audio stream. Indeed, when I first purchased my microRendu back in May, I tested it with a variety of standard sources including a Windows NUC, Windows laptop, Mac Pro, Macbook Pro and sonicTransporter and even when a certain source was powered by my HDPlex, I noticed no significant difference among these sources, at least not enough to care which one was feeding my microRendu. I have also explored and compared a variety of ethernet optimization techniques including optical isolation with FMCs (powered by LPS-1), an audiophile switch with TCXO clock by Paul Pang (powered by LPS-1) and various audiophile ethernet cables (BJC CAT 6A, SOtM dCBL-CAT6 with iSO-CAT6, AQ Vodka + Diamond, Supra CAT8, WireWorld Silver Starlight CAT8) and while they can and do make a difference, even collectively, the difference has never been that great, certainly not enough to want to spend lots of effort or money on these things. At least that has been my experience and so this is a compliment to both the microRendu and the sMS-200, that they are that immune to what is upstream...or are they?

 

Like with many of you, things changed when I received my LPS-1 as this power supply was eye opening in how it transformed my microRendu. This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply would also transform my upstream components including a simple NUC or Mac Mini even with the microRendu or sMS-200 in place (I own both of these units). It was surprising to find out that even my internet modem/router similarly benefited. It turns out that while ethernet is good for isolating noise, it cannot fix a signal already molested at the modem/router or music server level. In the same way that the LPS-1 improved both the macro and microdynamic capabilities of my microRendu, my Paul Hynes SR7 has also magically transformed my modified Mac Mini and internet modem/router and both the microRendu and sMS-200 fully reveal these benefits but truth be told, these benefits are much more fully realized if these endpoints themselves are powered by a low impedance PSU. This is not some mild transformation that you need to blind test to convince yourself is real, this is something a semi-deaf person can distinguish because the dynamic contrasts with the Paul Hynes SR7 driving both my Mac Mini and internet modem/router is that much more thunderous, enough so that I have had to literally turn my subwoofer down a notch. If you think about it, there's no good reason why this shouldn't be happening. The whole purpose of the microRendu or sMS-200 and devices like the USB Regen is to present a DAC with a signal of the highest integrity. Why wouldn't the microRendu or sMS-200 similarly benefit from being presented with high signal integrity by the components before it?

 

I have come to the conclusion that this impact has more to do with low impedance than the low noise characteristics of the power supply fronting these upstream devices because as you recall, ethernet is transformer coupled and so is inherently galvanically isolated and with the FMCs that I employ in my network (which are powered by my LPS-1), no RF noise or leakage current should be reaching my microRendu or sMS-200. What is the measured output impedance of the Paul Hynes SR7? According to Paul, his SR5 and SR7 measure <3 millohms from DC to 100kHz and so consider this number as a reference point for comparison. Having asked around, it seems no one else can provide these impedance measurements over what John Swenson describes to be his ideal frequency range either because they don't own the measuring equipment to do so or because they don't believe this spec is important. What I can tell you is that neither my HDPlex or Teradak are low impedance LPSUs because neither of these units are good enough to allow me to distinguish one source from another when fronted by either the microRendu or sMS-200 and both are soundly trounced by my LPS-1 and my SR7 when it comes to soundstage dimensionality. While I have not had the opportunity to compare the Sonore Signature Power Supply to either of these two units, based on what I am hearing from respected sources and conversations I have had with Barrows, I have no doubt this is an excellent and very low impedance PSU. Based on how good the LPS-1 is, logic would suggest Vinnie Rossi's ultracap-based supply is likely of similar caliber. The problem with these other supplies is that neither of them have enough juice to power a Mac Mini, Nuc or my TP-Link internet modem/router as each of these devices require at least 12V/3.5A.

 

Of course, this discovery led to quite a bit of curiosity about other areas. What would happen if I directly connected my Mac Mini to either my microRendu or sMS-200? Intuitively, I had a hard time believing this should make a difference. If so, why weren't the microRendu or sMS-200 designed by their wise creators to connect this way? I further had a difficult time believing my internet modem/router or my Paul Pang switch with TCXO clock should have any real detrimental impact on either of these endpoints since the modem/router was currently being powered by my Paul Hynes SR7 and my Paul Pang switch was being powered by my LPS-1 and moreover, I had optical isolation in place and yet Mark Jenkins, owner and developer of the Antipodes line of music servers, had this to say about his latest generation Roon Ready DX music server. This excerpt is taken from John Darko's review of this latest generation DX server:

 

"A third way to plumb Roon inside the DX is to have Roon Core talk to Roon Ready directly. Think of this scenario as Roon playing out the server-client model not on a LAN but inside a single computer.

 

Jenkins clarifies: "They [Roon Core and Roon Ready] talk using RAAT but when they are in the same device they do not need to use the not-so-good comms layers that sit underneath RAAT when the two apps talk across a network."

I'm not sure I know what Mark meant by this exactly but he details a greater clarity and immediacy to the sound of Roon using this method and so I felt compelled to try and create this direct connection between my Mac Mini and my microRendu/sMS-200. This wouldn't be so difficult if either device had the ability to assign itself a static IP. Unfortunately, this was never possible with the microRendu and this feature was taken away from the sMS-200 after firmware 1.9 and because each device must be assigned an IP address by a router for control purposes, it didn't appear as if there would be an easy way to accomplish this.

 

It turns out OSX can function as its own DHCP server and so I used El Capitan to assign an IP address to one of the two ethernet ports I have on my Mac Mini (the Mac Mini comes natively with only one ethernet port but my Thunderbolt hub comes with its own ethernet port thereby giving me two such ports). I connected my sMS-200 to one port and my router to the other port and it worked but there were problems. Because OSX insisted on connecting this second port on a separate subnet, my sMS-200 had no outlet to the internet (for Tidal streaming) nor could it be controlled remotely by my iPad and so this was a "no go." When I manually forced both ports to be on the same subnet, my Mac Mini would get confused as to which ethernet port had control and it would lock up. It then dawned on me that I could bridge the two ethernet ports and BINGO! This accomplished exactly what I wanted to accomplish. Both ethernet ports were now on the same subnet and with one port connected directly to my sMS-200 and the other port connected directly to my router, everything was running smoothly. I could now easily access the sMS-200 remotely from my iPad and other machines that were on the network and the sMS-200 could access the internet. While I have not yet tried my microRendu this way (it is presently on loan), I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way. What is interesting is with this bridged configuration, my internet modem/router is now responsible for assigning the sMS-200 an IP address and yet the sMS-200 is physically directly connected to my Mac Mini without the intermediary "not so good comm layers" that Mark Jenkins describes.

 

So how does this direct connection sound? Simply glorious! While a low impedance power supply brings depth and dynamics to my upstream components, this direct connection brings amazing clarity and immediacy. It's as if one very thick veil has been removed and that my seat has been upgraded from the balcony to the stalls. I would rate the impact of this as equivalent in magnitude to employing a low impedance PSU. Many of you are aware of the claims many are making on several threads here on CA but also on HeadFi of how RedNet and Dante provides this "you are there" clarity. I had a ReNet 3 in my home for evaluation for nearly a month and I agree, it provides this beguiling sense of clarity that has to be heard to be appreciated although the problem with RedNet, I believe, is its inferior switching PSU. These units sound flat and dimensionless compared to my described setup above and so this clarity that RedNet brings almost sounds sterile and lifeless in comparison. Regardless, proponents of RedNet have suggested the problem with USB endpoints like the microRendu and sMS-200 is with USB. What I am hearing suggests USB is not the problem but perhaps the Dante technology by Audinate that RedNet utilizes has figured out how to eliminate the impact of these "not so good comms" in the network signal path. I have now been listening to this arrangement for much of the past week and so the initial emotions that can cloud one's judgement have settled down and my opinion remains the same as the first moment I heard it. To borrow from Chris Connaker, after all of this, I can unequivocally say that my audio system has never sounded better than it has now. For me, there is no going back.

 

For those interested in reproducing what I have done, first of all, you will need a music server with 2 ethernet ports. Current Mac Pros already have 2 ethernet ports. Mac Minis do not but I can verify that you can add a Thunderbolt ethernet port and it works very well. Many Windows PCs have 2 ethernet ports and if not, if you have a spare PCI or PCIE slot, you could inexpensively add one. Will a USB ethernet connection work? I don't see why not but I haven't tried it and I don't know how it will sound. I do know that you can't bridge a wi-fi connection and an ethernet connection.

 

So how do you bridge 2 ethernet ports? If you are on Linux, I can't help you but I'm sure it's possible. If you are on a Mac, here are the fairly simple instructions that I followed. Feel free to use DHCP but you are also free to assign a static IP:

 

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH18510?locale=en_US

 

For Windows, @jelt2359 has confirmed for me that the following directions below worked on his Windows 10 Nuc although he had to manually configure the bridge's DNS and IP addresses.

 

How to create a Network Bridge in Windows 10/8/7

 

Obviously, if you decide to try this, please report back your findings here. If there is consensus that this improvement is universal, perhaps Sonore and SOtM can be convinced to allow their units to be configured to be directly accessed more easily.

 

 

Another question if you connect the microRendu directly to the pc Ethernet port doesn't that essentially make the risk (from the how to link above) of an unprotected network?

 

Reference from the link : 'You should never create a bridge between an Internet connection and a network connection because it creates an unprotected link between your network and the Internet. This can make your network accessible to anyone on the Internet, which is not good from a security point of view'

 

Still puzzled by all the how to's but still want to try this.

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Elberoth   

Jplay has been a long time advocate for using a separate Ethernet card to connect their Audio PC and Control PC.

 

BTW, speaking of improving microRendu and SOtM sMS-200 performance - try putting Jcat isolator (Intona) and Wyred Recovery inseries after the microRendu (uR > Intona > Wyred Recovery, with uR powered by LPS-1). HUGE gain in dynamic contrast, soundstage dimensionality and clarity. My jaw literally hit the floor yesterday, when I first tried this combination (and that was after trying all sorts of PSUs on those gizmos, which also brought some improvement).

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tboooe   
Jplay has been a long time advocate for using a separate Ethernet card to connect their Audio PC and Control PC.

 

I was about to say the same thing. When I was using Jplay, I used a USB to Ethernet adapter to essentially create another nic. The sound was very very good. I now use HQP and NAA and was thinking of repeating this experiment except with a real second NIC card.

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Jplay has been a long time advocate for using a separate Ethernet card to connect their Audio PC and Control PC.

 

BTW, speaking of improving microRendu and SOtM sMS-200 performance - try putting Jcat isolator (Intona) and Wyred Recovery inseries after the microRendu (uR > Intona > Wyred Recovery, with uR powered by LPS-1). HUGE gain in dynamic contrast, soundstage dimensionality and clarity. My jaw literally hit the floor yesterday, when I first tried this combination (and that was after trying all sorts of PSUs on those gizmos, which also brought some improvement).

 

How does it sound without the uR in comparison, using your Jcat Femot USB card powered by an LPS-1 which in turn powers the Intona? Direct USB to the DAC. ? How to power the Wyred Recovery if used?

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Jplay has been a long time advocate for using a separate Ethernet card to connect their Audio PC and Control PC.

 

BTW, speaking of improving microRendu and SOtM sMS-200 performance - try putting Jcat isolator (Intona) and Wyred Recovery inseries after the microRendu (uR > Intona > Wyred Recovery, with uR powered by LPS-1). HUGE gain in dynamic contrast, soundstage dimensionality and clarity. My jaw literally hit the floor yesterday, when I first tried this combination (and that was after trying all sorts of PSUs on those gizmos, which also brought some improvement).

 

Elber, will be nice to read about on naszeaudio.pl 👌

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romaz   
This is very exciting. Let me suggest the steps for those of us who are not experts on networking

 

1) connect pc to router with 1 of 2 Ethernet ports on pc

2) connect pc to microRendu with other Ethernet port

3) assign a manual static set of descriptors for both networks

4) go to instructions for bridging these 2 separate networks

 

I googled how to set manual addresses etc and still don't understand. Anybody that can help on this would be greatly appreciated. I know where to get my microRendu isp address but what about my regular router isp. Where is that?

Yes on all points.

 

As for manually assigning an IP address to your newly created bridge, the first thing you will want to know is the current IPv4 address and subnet of your machine and the following describes how you do this in Windows:

 

4 Ways to find your computer's IP address in Windows | Digital Citizen

 

Take note of your subnet as you will want to use the exact same subnet for your bridge. If you analyze your IPv4 address, you will see that it is broken up into 4 octets with each octet separated by a period. As you arbitrarily assign your bridge some static IP address, make sure the first three octets are identical to your current machine's IP address and select a different number (from 0-255) for your last octet. For example, if your DHCP router has assigned your machine an address of 192.168.1.25, you could arbitrarily select an IP address of 192.168.1.250 for your bridge. As you can see, it is only the last group of numbers that is different. If a conflict arises because that address has already been assigned to another device by your DHCP router, if you can figure out which device is currently occupying that address, rebooting that device should resolve the conflict. Alternatively, you could always select a different address and this would probably be the easiest thing to do.

 

Sounds like a hassle but you should only have to do this once. I believe you will find the payoff to be worthwhile.

 

For OSX, you can use DHCP for the bridge and everything works fine.

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Elberoth   
How does it sound without the uR in comparison, using your Jcat Femot USB card powered by an LPS-1 which in turn powers the Intona? Direct USB to the DAC. ? How to power the Wyred Recovery if used?

 

No idea. Haven't done any comparos yet. Those will come, so no worries.

 

I'm using UpTone JS-2 PSU to power both the Wyred Recovery and LPS-1. The LPS-1 is crucial.

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romaz   
I don't see any benefit in that.

At surface value, I would agree with you but here are 4 reasons why I believe such a device could prove beneficial or at least very convenient:

 

1) With my current modem/router, powering it with my Paul Hynes SR7 has resulted in a very noticeable improvement in terms of dynamics in the same way that I am noticing that a good PSU benefits the microRendu. Clearly, the modem/router/switch that we all use has some impact.

2) With the exception of a Melco N1A or N1Z which incorporates its own internal router and functions as its own DHCP server, all other routers I am aware of utilize noisy switching regulators and so if you are streaming from a NAS or streaming from Tidal, it would make sense to me to believe that the stream would be adversely impacted as those streams have to go through this router/switch.

3) I currently employ a Paul Pang switch with TXCO clock in my system and it is connected between my FMC (receiving end) and my Mac Mini. It is connected to the Mac Mini with a short 1 meter BJC Cat6A cable and you can look at it as an "ethernet Regen." This device is a native 5V device and uses no regulators and so powered directly by my LPS-1 set at 5V, its output is very clean. While the improvement is small it is very meaningful. It has not only improved SQ but because it serves as a buffer, I have noticed significantly fewer dropouts with it in the chain. Regardless, reclocking the ethernet stream shortly before it arrives to the server seems to provide benefits in the same way that a USB Regen can benefit a DAC. All routers have clocks and so it would make sense to replace this clock with a much more stable clock if someone was out to design an audiophile class router. In fact, SOtM's newest clock, the sCLK-EX has exactly such an application in mind.

4) There has been plenty said about the benefits of optical isolation in a network. It would also make sense to me to incorporate this option in an audiophile-class router/switch to make life easier.

 

At the end of the day, an internet modem/router/switch is a streaming device just like an Auralic Aries and if you believe the femto clock/LPS upgrade for the Aries resulted in an improvement, there should be no reason to believe a router would be any different.

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YashN   
This should have come as no surprise as John Swenson had been telling us all along that the microRendu, as a low noise and low impedance device, benefits from a low noise and low impedance power supply. What I wasn't prepared to experience, however, was how a good low noise, low impedance power supply

 

powered by a low impedance PSU.

 

I have come to the conclusion that this impact has more to do with low impedance than the low noise characteristics of the power supply fronting these upstream devices

 

What I can tell you is that neither my HDPlex or Teradak are low impedance LPSUs because neither of these units are good enough to allow me to distinguish one source from another when fronted by either the microRendu or sMS-200 and both are soundly trounced by my LPS-1 and my SR7 when it comes to soundstage dimensionality. While I have not had the opportunity to compare the Sonore Signature Power Supply to either of these two units, based on what I am hearing from respected sources and conversations I have had with Barrows, I have no doubt this is an excellent and very low impedance PSU. Based on how good the LPS-1 is, logic would suggest Vinnie Rossi's ultracap-based supply is likely of similar caliber.

Of course, this discovery led to quite a bit of curiosity about other areas. What would happen if I directly connected my Mac Mini to either my microRendu or sMS-200? Intuitively, I had a hard time believing this should make a difference. If so, why weren't the microRendu or sMS-200 designed by their wise creators to connect this way?

There is an important distinction with the Uptone Audio LPS-1 which you are missing, which is also in the Vinnie Rossi ultracap power supply, but not in either the HD Plex or the Teradak or any other usual Linear Regulated PSU, so you cannot realistically compare these without taking this into account. Actually, more than that, these are two different classes of PSUs completely.

 

That feature is the breakage of Leakage loops because the LPS-1 works in 'disconnected-from-the-mains' mode when the load is being powered by its powering ultracaps (not the ones being charged as these are charged though the mains connection).

 

NB: I am not saying that low impedance isn't important, just that by comparing these two classes of PSUs, you aren't able to conclude where the SQ changes come from because there are at least these two variables changed there (actually many more than that). So the comparison doesn't stand.

 

Secondly, the microRendu is designed to work as an NAA among other types of endpoints - that means it was already designed to connect directly to your computer.

 

Don't underestimate the issues that can be cause by ground loops and leakage currents, these can wreak havoc on a system's ability.

 

Otherwise, good on you for the improved SQ, it's always worthwhile.

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YashN   
4) There has been plenty said about the benefits of optical isolation in a network. It would also make sense to me to incorporate this option in an audiophile-class router/switch to make life easier

 

Makes more sense to me that this should be both in the DAC and computer-side.

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romaz   
Jplay has been a long time advocate for using a separate Ethernet card to connect their Audio PC and Control PC.

 

BTW, speaking of improving microRendu and SOtM sMS-200 performance - try putting Jcat isolator (Intona) and Wyred Recovery inseries after the microRendu (uR > Intona > Wyred Recovery, with uR powered by LPS-1). HUGE gain in dynamic contrast, soundstage dimensionality and clarity. My jaw literally hit the floor yesterday, when I first tried this combination (and that was after trying all sorts of PSUs on those gizmos, which also brought some improvement).

Yes, you're absolutely right. A dual box JPlay system operates under (and benefits from) the same principles but I will say that my friend's dual box system with WinServer 2012R2 + AO + JPlay doesn't sound as good as what I have now. With that said, I do believe the control PC absolutely matters and so I am in the process of installing WinServer 2012R2 + AO + Roon on my Mac Mini and am hoping that this optimization will result in further improvement.

 

With regards to the impact of the Intona, that tweak will be system dependent. My Chord DAVE already incorporates very effective galvanic isolation on its USB input. Good enough that when I connected an Intona Industrial USB isolater and W4S Recovery powered by an LPS-1 between my mR and DAC, I could detect no difference at all.

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romaz   
Would there still be a good reason to use optical isolation (FMCs and a run of fiber) in this new implementation?

I have optical isolation with FMCs between my router and my server but I have not tried it between my server and the sMS-200. I suppose it might help but I am loving the simplicity of what I have and enjoying the huge improvement as is. I suppose I will want to try it at some point but I am in no hurry to do so.

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Yes on all points.

 

As for manually assigning an IP address to your newly created bridge, the first thing you will want to know is the current IPv4 address and subnet of your machine and the following describes how you do this in Windows:

 

4 Ways to find your computer's IP address in Windows | Digital Citizen

 

Take note of your subnet as you will want to use the exact same subnet for your bridge. If you analyze your IPv4 address, you will see that it is broken up into 4 octets with each octet separated by a period. As you arbitrarily assign your bridge some static IP address, make sure the first three octets are identical to your current machine's IP address and select a different number (from 0-255) for your last octet. For example, if your DHCP router has assigned your machine an address of 192.168.1.25, you could arbitrarily select an IP address of 192.168.1.250 for your bridge. As you can see, it is only the last group of numbers that is different. If a conflict arises because that address has already been assigned to another device by your DHCP router, if you can figure out which device is currently occupying that address, rebooting that device should resolve the conflict. Alternatively, you could always select a different address and this would probably be the easiest thing to do.

 

Sounds like a hassle but you should only have to do this once. I believe you will find the payoff to be worthwhile.

 

For OSX, you can use DHCP for the bridge and everything works fine.

Remember I am not knowledgeable on this stuff so the questions may seem naïve but here goes

 

1) When I use my Sonicorbiter link (which as set up now in my system) I currently see an isp for the microRendu. Is the address I use when I hook up the micro Rendu directly to the pc separate Ethernet port?

 

2) or do connect the microRendu to the pc , let the pc assign a new isp, then insert that into the bridging command?

 

Right now I connect my pc to my router. Then I run a separate Ethernet cable from the router to the Rendu. Since I use a Vinnie Rossi DHT which by definition has triodes I turn the VR off when not listening. This turns off the Rendu. Then everytime I turn the VR on, load HQP the system goes through discovery of the network connection. Sometimes I have to power cycle the Rendu several times to successfully connect it.

 

3) So will this complicate my use of a bridging connection?

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romaz   
There is an important distinction with the Uptone Audio LPS-1 which you are missing, which is also in the Vinnie Rossi ultracap power supply, but not in either the HD Plex or the Teradak or any other usual Linear Regulated PSU, so you cannot realistically compare these without taking this into account. Actually, more than that, these are two different classes of PSUs completely.

 

That feature is the breakage of Leakage loops because the LPS-1 works in 'disconnected-from-the-mains' mode when the load is being powered by its powering ultracaps (not the ones being charged as these are charged though the mains connection).

 

NB: I am not saying that low impedance isn't important, just that by comparing these two classes of PSUs, you aren't able to conclude where the SQ changes come from because there are at least these two variables changed there (actually many more than that). So the comparison doesn't stand.

 

Secondly, the microRendu is designed to work as an NAA among other types of endpoints - that means it was already designed to connect directly to your computer.

 

Don't underestimate the issues that can be cause by ground loops and leakage currents, these can wreak havoc on a system's ability.

 

Otherwise, good on you for the improved SQ, it's always worthwhile.

I agree with you about the importance of leakage current but even John Swenson admits that the impact of this is very system dependent. In my system, it seems to have very little bearing and this could be because my Chord DAVE's USB input is already galvanically isolated. While galvanic isolation seems to be a feature thrown out loosely by a lot of DAC makers, the quality of its implementation seems to vary greatly. With the Chord DAVE, as I stated in a previous post, an Intona Industrial made no difference at all. In fact, by itself (when not coupled with a W4S Recovery), SQ actually worsened. Moreover, when I compare my LPS-1 directly against the Paul Pang SR7, there is only improvement with the SR7 (although this doesn't take away from just how exceptional the LPS-1 one is and how there is no better value).

 

Regarding the mR being designed to directly connect to a computer, this is not how Sonore (or SOtM) sees it. At least, not yet.

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marksas3   
Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention....

 

 

Ok, sorry for not completely understanding all of this which leads me to a few questions...

 

1) how many LPS-1 units do you have in place? You make it sound like ONE unit can power multiple devices? sorry i don't own an LPS-1 nor know that much about it yet, I have a TeraDak now powering my uRendu.

 

2) Is the SR7 powering the mac mini or your modem/router or both? where does one purchase an SR7?

 

3) I'm still somewhat confused about the chain of components here, are you still using FMC's and fiber before the uRendu or have you ditched the FMC's?

 

4) Right now i'm using the TeraDak PSU (30W DC9V2.5A) to power my uRendu, it'd be nice still get use out of it for another component, any suggestions?

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