Jump to content
IGNORED

Article: The Revenge of Analog: An Editorial and Review


Recommended Posts

Much to be said for traditional methods such as shaving with a double-edge razor (not a vibrating 5-bladed cartoon monstrosity) and pouring hot water over coffee grounds (I rue the day my mom and brother started using those pods). As far as vinyl, in my system the vinyl is smoother and seems to flow better. I can live with a few pops and clicks. Some of the newer records sound awful (vinyl quality, not the music - example is some of the Vault packages from Jack White) and I have had better luck listening to older vinyl.

QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers  

Link to comment
Much to be said for traditional methods such as shaving with a double-edge razor (not a vibrating 5-bladed cartoon monstrosity) and pouring hot water over coffee grounds (I rue the day my mom and brother started using those pods). As far as vinyl, in my system the vinyl is smoother and seems to flow better. I can live with a few pops and clicks. Some of the newer records sound awful (vinyl quality, not the music - example is some of the Vault packages from Jack White) and I have had better luck listening to older vinyl.

 

Everyone has their preferences. I think the five bladed monstrosity gives me a closer shave and I never cut myself, unlike with "traditional" razors. (Which, by the way were derided for the same reasons when they replaced the blade and leather strop).

Ask most coffee mavens and they will tell you that pouring hot water over coffee grounds is definitely a sub-optimal way of making coffee, as the water temperature and amount of time the coffee grounds are exposed to the water are not correct. I don't use them, but I think pods make a perfectly good cup of coffee.

 

I prefer digital to vinyl and never play my records anymore.

 

The other points Chris makes from the book are interesting. I think the idea that digital music made music "worthless" for many people is correct, and that much of the interest in vinyl comes from aspects other than sound. The involvement of more senses probably has something to do with it, and the discovery, etc.

 

Maybe it's because I grew up in an analog world that I don't value vinyl or printed books so much. I really like the convenience etc of digital versions and prefer them. If I was younger I'd probably be one of those kids searching for vinyl and buying printed books.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

Link to comment

Analog is just nostalgia, nothing wrong with that. What makes something worthy of nostalgia? How many of you wish for the days of tube or B&W television, no A/C, standard transmission cars? There can be digital nostalgia too, anyone want to fire up their old Apple II or Nintendo? Personally, I miss sitting down to play cards, and I don't mean poker.

 

I would suggest that nostalgia is generational, the nostalgia for vinyl will pass with the baby-boomers, just like any nostalgia for wax cyliners, victrola's or 10" 78's have passed with previous generations.

Jim

Link to comment
Analog is just nostalgia, nothing wrong with that. What makes something worthy of nostalgia? How many of you wish for the days of tube or B&W television, no A/C, standard transmission cars? There can be digital nostalgia too, anyone want to fire up their old Apple II or Nintendo? Personally, I miss sitting down to play cards, and I don't mean poker.

 

I would suggest that nostalgia is generational, the nostalgia for vinyl will pass with the baby-boomers, just like any nostalgia for wax cyliners, victrola's or 10" 78's have passed with previous generations.

 

I have to disagree. In the book, Sax uses objective data to describe who is purchasing all the vinyl and who is using analog items. It's not baby boomers. It's people without analog in their lives. All ages.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

Link to comment

Digital and computer controlled audio made my day, made me spend 30-40x more money on the sound system, and enjoy it way more. I'm glad I got to experience what's possible. Today incredible performance is available for far less. That said, I remember finding an obscure LP record, an almost impossible to find record, second hand. A woman I was interested in wanted it for her birthday. What a find. First time it played, red dust literally came flying out of the tracks. LP record covers were great, too. And you had to care for the records themselves, baby them, turn them over etc.

 

Yes, digital nostalgia. As soon as it's 100% streaming the CD will be brought back with reverence. That shiny little silver disc. Pucks to keep them in place as they spin.

Link to comment
I have to disagree. In the book, Sax uses objective data to describe who is purchasing all the vinyl and who is using analog items. It's not baby boomers. It's people without analog in their lives. All ages.

The 19-yo barmaid at my local keeps telling me how great vinyl is.

Link to comment
I have to disagree. In the book, Sax uses objective data to describe who is purchasing all the vinyl and who is using analog items. It's not baby boomers. It's people without analog in their lives. All ages.

 

Perhaps music, which is beloved however we consume it, is imore special when coupled with images and text that's easy on the eyes in age when so much of our time is spent glaring at downsized images and text on smartphones.

“Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Steve Bannon

 

Chief Strategist for President Trump and attendee on United States National Security Council.

Link to comment
I have to disagree. In the book, Sax uses objective data to describe who is purchasing all the vinyl and who is using analog items. It's not baby boomers. It's people without analog in their lives. All ages.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree! :) Data (objectivity is debatable) was used just recently to wrongly predict who would win the election! I don't give much credence to Sax's data. I have read that there are people buying vinyl to store away and sell for a killing on eBay in the future, can't remember where I read that but I can try and find it. Sounds like a Beanie Baby or Franklin Mint type of scenario: buy something that ends up being worthless in the future because so many other people had the same idea! I hope those buying vinyl these days play the crap out of it, use it up, don't keep it as an investment!

 

I wonder about the selectivity of nostalgia. I gave a few examples in my first post. How many of you would give up your cell phones for wired land lines at home, or use an antenna for television. Do you want to give up your Tidal for tuning in the transistor radio? Is there any nostalgia for old tech beyond vinyl? (obviously being an audio centric website that is what the focus is here) I guess my thought is that it is more of a fad, something "cool" or trendy, whose time will pass.

 

Those celebrating the demise of CD, I guess you could look at those silver discs as merely data distribution devices, no different than a download or streaming file. Digital is still eating analog's breakfast, lunch, and dinner!

Jim

Link to comment
I guess we will have to agree to disagree! :) Data (objectivity is debatable) was used just recently to wrongly predict who would win the election! I don't give much credence to Sax's data. I have read that there are people buying vinyl to store away and sell for a killing on eBay in the future, can't remember where I read that but I can try and find it. Sounds like a Beanie Baby or Franklin Mint type of scenario: buy something that ends up being worthless in the future because so many other people had the same idea! I hope those buying vinyl these days play the crap out of it, use it up, don't keep it as an investment!

 

I wonder about the selectivity of nostalgia. I gave a few examples in my first post. How many of you would give up your cell phones for wired land lines at home, or use an antenna for television. Do you want to give up your Tidal for tuning in the transistor radio? Is there any nostalgia for old tech beyond vinyl? (obviously being an audio centric website that is what the focus is here) I guess my thought is that it is more of a fad, something "cool" or trendy, whose time will pass.

 

Those celebrating the demise of CD, I guess you could look at those silver discs as merely data distribution devices, no different that a download or streaming file. Digital is still eating analog's breakfast, lunch, and dinner!

 

No worries about disagreeing with me :~)

 

Urban Outfitters sold more vinyl than any other brick and mortar retailer in 2015. I don't see any gray-haired hippies longing for nostalgia walking into that place.

 

Your other examples are interesting, but a bit different than vinyl, paper, and film. With these three, there is a process inolved and more human senses are used. If I switched back to an antenna for TV, the only thing that would be different would be the number of channels I receive. The entire process and use of senses would be identical. One caveat to this is the quality of picture with an over the air antenna is far better than the lossy compressed picture one gets from cable or satellite. The same goes for a mobile versus landline phone. And, again the quality of a landline is so much better than mobile, it's laughable. But, the experience isn't different. A phone is a phone is a phone.

 

Anyway, thanks for your contributions to CA.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

Link to comment

Two years ago I made a choice to buy a really good turntable or an SACD player. In making this decision, there are vivid memories of LP suffering in 40+C heat, heavy boxes to store them in, and even more real estate to house them. Unless the lounge room floor wasn't made of concrete, you need the finesse of a feline to ensure the stylus didn't jump. The snap crackle and pop was not enjoyable, especially the really quiet parts of "Take a pebble" by ELP, I still hear in my mind the scratch at the very moment in the middle of piece. Rumble..... help. I bought an SACD player and not regretting it.

 

I overheard a conversation the other day in a brick and mortar store, a family of four noticed the rack of LPs. The mother asked the assistant, what's the story with the LP's? "They are making a come back in a big way", the mother of around 40 something replied, "I got rid of all LP's years ago, there's no way I'm going to buy them again". There are solid reasons why LPs were dumped by the millions in favour of CD or digital media. LP has reduced dynamic range compared to hires and nowadays has the same digital mastered rubbish for CD or downloads for popular music anyway. Given the high replacement cost of the stylus, and cartridge and cleaning LPs whether by hand or by machine needs to factored in as well, to stop the snap crackle and pop. Do I need this, well no.

 

Digital is far from perfect, the source material still is the highest stumbling block to fidelity, the second lies in the micro details of the transmission system foibles which are being ironed out as we speak on several fronts.

 

If you want to be nostalgic and analog, go for tape. Still some maintenance, but far less than vinyl and no need to get out of the chair every 22.5 minutes. Reduced bandwidth, compression range a little better than LP, what more do you want? Something like this DR23 from Flim and the BBs CD.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to comment
Two years ago I made a choice to buy a really good turntable or an SACD player. In making this decision, there are vivid memories of LP suffering in 40+C heat, heavy boxes to store them in, and even more real estate to house them. Unless the lounge room floor wasn't made of concrete, you need the finesse of a feline to ensure the stylus didn't jump. The snap crackle and pop was not enjoyable, especially the really quiet parts of "Take a pebble" by ELP, I still hear in my mind the scratch at the very moment in the middle of piece. Rumble..... help. I bought an SACD player and not regretting it.

 

I overheard a conversation the other day in a brick and mortar store, a family of four noticed the rack of LPs. The mother asked the assistant, what's the story with the LP's? "They are making a come back in a big way", the mother of around 40 something replied, "I got rid of all LP's years ago, there's no way I'm going to buy them again". There are solid reasons why LPs were dumped by the millions in favour of CD or digital media. LP has reduced dynamic range compared to hires and nowadays has the same digital mastered rubbish for CD or downloads for popular music anyway. Given the high replacement cost of the stylus, and cartridge and cleaning LPs whether by hand or by machine needs to factored in as well, to stop the snap crackle and pop. Do I need this, well no.

 

Digital is far from perfect, the source material still is the highest stumbling block to fidelity, the second lies in the micro details of the transmission system foibles which are being ironed out as we speak on several fronts.

 

If you want to be nostalgic and analog, go for tape. Still some maintenance, but far less than vinyl and no need to get out of the chair every 22.5 minutes. Reduced bandwidth, compression range a little better than LP, what more do you want? Something like this DR23 from Flim and the BBs CD.

Thanks for the comments, but I believe you missed the point of much of this. The very disadvantages of vinyl are now the advantages. Not much to do with sound quality or dynamic range etc...

 

However, I completely understand your point of view.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

Link to comment
I can live with a few pops and clicks. Some of the newer records sound awful (vinyl quality, not the music - example is some of the Vault packages from Jack White) and I have had better luck listening to older vinyl.

 

I can too, but only when listening to my vinyl rips. But not and have to put up with the 1930 levels of convenience at the same time. Plus 5 minutes of preparation ritual for every 20 minutes of play. BLAH

 

Truth always was 95% of all vinyl "sound awful (vinyl quality, not the music". The reason MoFi and all the rest of the boutique pressing labels were so successful back in the day. Beyond your pops and clicks there was/is wow, flutter, off set center holes, warpage, declining SQ from outer to inner groves, etc, etc, etc.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

nomqa.webp.aa713f2bb9e304522011cdb2d2ca907d.webp  R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

Link to comment
Not much to do with sound quality or dynamic range etc...

I can fall in line with that Chris. There are dozens of reasons why a person can legitimately prefer playing vinyl LPs. It can be fun, for a while. LOL

It's only when folks like Fremer and Co go around claiming High Fidelity sound reproduction is superior from this antique technology. It sure has brought a lot of money into the high end industry over the last few years but is based on misleading information being fabricated by those on the profit side of the ledger.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

nomqa.webp.aa713f2bb9e304522011cdb2d2ca907d.webp  R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press.

 

Link to comment
...

Maybe it's because I grew up in an analog world that I don't value vinyl or printed books so much. I really like the convenience etc of digital versions and prefer them. If I was younger I'd probably be one of those kids searching for vinyl and buying printed books.

 

No doubt digital is more convenient. Sure the kids are buying vinyl and thinking it sounds great..they grew up buying mp3s from iTunes. I have a few nieces/nephews (no kids) and I do not think they have ever purchased even a cd. One is niece is buying vinyl now an getting older music...not new. I used to live for buying a record and could not wait to spin it up on the record player with a friend or two. If I was lucky I could play on my parents system with the big receiver and much nicer turntable/needle. Those were events! During high school I spun The Wall backwards for the hidden message and astounded my classmates. Can that be done with cd? Must be with all the DJs around but not the same.

QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers  

Link to comment
I make coffee every morning in this, on the stovetop. Probably my most "analog" daily experience.

 

14655160?wid=3000&hei=3000&qlt=70&fmt=pjpeg

 

Mine...Best coffee ever with the correct filter:

chemex.jpg

QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers  

Link to comment
Thanks for the comments, but I believe you missed the point of much of this. The very disadvantages of vinyl are now the advantages. Not much to do with sound quality or dynamic range etc...

 

However, I completely understand your point of view.

 

Waayyyy back in 1999, Fremer and Gil Goss were in the studio taking calls from around the country on a radio show.

The preferences people had towards CD or Vinyl back then are much the same as they are now. Some people liked CD, a 17 YO preferred vinyl, and Fremer is the vinyl fanatic. A good listen.

 

You're talking in double negatives, messes with my head :) I think it all has to do technically with why CD is different to vinyl, the rest is nostalgia and emotional needs. The Japanese for some of their SHM-CD released a mini LP concept, where the packaging was the size of a 45rpm single and the inner sleeve held the CD. This allows for more touchy feeley, and liner notes than is possible with the regular jewel box. Not a bad idea. For the price what I see of vinyl now, a CD can be thrown in or a USB stick...?

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to comment

So Chris, Does this mean that you have made up with Michael Fremmer. If so it explains that all smiles pic of the two of you at a recent show. Never thought I would see you as buddies with the high priest of vinyl. If you are going to get a turntable, try to find a used Linn. They are still some of the best ever made. You will also need a phono pre and the best of those have tubes. Talk about nostalgia and the ultimate retro experience.

 

Adventure on,

 

Bob

Link to comment

I have 30 years of "real things" packed up in boxes.... while I like vinyl better, networked digital audio puts everything at my electronic fingertips and is a lot more affordable in next steps to improve. Just wish the digital transcription solutions were good enough for vinyl disc transcription so that I could permanently archive my LP's. Can't say that I find any element of Zen meditation in the process of playing physical discs, its just that inescapable action required between initial desire and start of fulfillment

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

Link to comment
I can fall in line with that Chris. There are dozens of reasons why a person can legitimately prefer playing vinyl LPs. It can be fun, for a while. LOL

It's only when folks like Fremer and Co go around claiming High Fidelity sound reproduction is superior from this antique technology. It sure has brought a lot of money into the high end industry over the last few years but is based on misleading information being fabricated by those on the profit side of the ledger.

 

The reason I claim "High Fidelity sound reproduction is superior" from vinyl is because it is demonstrably and reliably true. Calling it an "antique" technology is infantile. It is an old concept modernized via the most up to date technology. The comments here about pops and clicks and rumble etc. are silly to anyone using up to date analog technology to play back records---even and especially old ones played dozens if not hundreds of times. I have given my vinyl rips to many manufacturers of high quality DACs who use them as demos, never telling listeners they are hearing vinyl ripped to high rez digital. They use these rips because they sound better than their own source material. I suspect most people here have never heard state of the art vinyl playback and dwell upon the negatives. I have a state of the art digital system and have reviewed many including DCS Vivaldi, which is as good as I've heard digital audio sound but my ears prefer vinyl because it sounds more "real"---and if that is a result of additive artifacts, I don't care. The entire process of recording music is both an art form as much as a science, and ultimately is an additive artifact. Anyone who thinks the digital recording process is without flaws and without its own set of colorations is claiming perfection for a man-created technology and there's simply no such thing. As for who is buying and listening to records, trust me, I've got my ears to the ground on that one and the demographics are wide-ranging and younger than you might think, and sound does play a large role in this. My readers range from 10-80....

 

Michael Fremer

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...