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My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC


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20 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

 

I guess I'm feeling adventuresome -  just ordered the Sparkos regulator for my SU-1.

I'm preparing an order from Digikey for another project right now, so I'll throw those caps into my shopping cart too.

For more adventure after replacing LD1086, try adding a low noise 5V regulator to 5V input before the 3.3V Sparkos and set the LPS-1 to 7V.  In my system, this change improved the overall SQ that I thought is well worth recommending.  If you do the way I did with mine, it can be reversed easily.

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2 minutes ago, elan120 said:

For more adventure after replacing LD1086, try adding a low noise 5V regulator to 5V input before the 3.3V Sparkos and set the LPS-1 to 7V.  In my system, this change improved the overall SQ that I thought is well worth recommending.  If you do the way I did with mine, it can be reversed easily.

Wouldn't this very much depend on the source of DC 5V?  If you are feeding it from LPS-1, then thats already extremely low noise is it not? And adding additional 5v regulator before the input would introduce more noise?

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5 minutes ago, bluesaint said:

Wouldn't this very much depend on the source of DC 5V?  If you are feeding it from LPS-1, then thats already extremely low noise is it not? And adding additional 5v regulator before the input would introduce more noise?

 

Speaking of the stock 5v regulator (I realize this is not what the question was about):

When feeding from an external 5v source, the stock 5v regulator is bypassed. There's no reason to replace it, then.

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1 minute ago, bluesaint said:

Wouldn't this very much depend on the source of DC 5V?  If you are feeding it from LPS-1, then thats already extremely low noise is it not? And adding additional 5v regulator before the input would introduce more noise?

Agreed, and I originally thought it may not help much, but seeing other posts about how to run one LPS-1 together with upcoming ISO Regen and SU-1, and I happened to have a LT3045 laying around, so I thought I will give it a try since I want to replace the internal cable to 4S6 anyway.  To my surprise, after plug-in the modded cable with LT3045 and listened the whole weekend, this mod will for sure stay.

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On 5/7/2017 at 2:48 PM, pkane2001 said:

Not having access to an LPS-1 (and not willing to spend as much on a power supply as on the SU-1 itself) I wired up a 5v iFi power supply, instead. This is an inexpensive switcher that claims active filtering and 1uV noise at the output, and I happen to have one on-hand.

 

The result is an audible improvement. It's not huge, but the effect is especially obvious on large orchestral pieces where the sound now comes out completely uncongested. With the stock power supply there was just a bit of congestion or straining when many instruments were playing simultaneously. With the iFi supply the sound remains clear, with clean separation of many of the instruments.

 

iFi iPower (5V) should have a lower output noise than the stock linear power supply (~1μV versus ~150μV).

 

Those numbers however are not definitive. The 1μV by iFi Audio was tested by an Audio Precision 2 in a laboratory or listening room with near ideal conditions, meaning the AC mains noise affecting the AC/DC adapter is very low as well as instrument ghosts being eliminated from the testing equipment. In more realistic applications that number should be higher but still a good improvement over the stock power supply.

 

Linear power supplies spit less noise back into AC mains as well as pass less AC leakage currents into the device that it powers so even if you improve on output noise to gain a slight bump in sound, you are still sacrificing a portion in terms of additional AC noise.

 

I have an LPS-1 and ISO REGEN coming in soon.

At first I wanted to power both the SU-1 & ISO REGEN with a single LPS-1, but doing so would stop the internal digital isolation chip within the SU-1 from working (due to two devices sharing a common ground). Without the isolation working, possible noise and or ground loops can  may it's way to the SU-1 and thus affecting the sensitive clock circuit which may lead to an inferior timing signal being passed down to the DAC. 

In order to get the best possible performance from the SU-1, I would recommend maintaining that level of isolation. This requires powering the upstream and downstream side of the SU-1 with separate power supplies. This keeps the USB receiver (XMOS) and ISO REGEN circuit away Crystek CCHD-575 can do it's job uninfluenced by the behavior of surrounding parts.

 

To make this possible, I will have my ISO REGEN powered by an iPower (9V). Even though AC leakage currents can make it's way through the ISO REGEN and onto the USB receiver of the SU-1, none of it can cross into the re-clocking circuit thanks to the digital isolation in affect. AC leakage currents can still be eliminated if both units are powered with a single LPS-1 but then comes the problem of noise being transferred from device to device.

 

I recommend changing out the LD1086 voltage regulator for a Sparkos Labs SS1117XX in +3.3V.

I highly recommend it as it makes pretty noticeable difference. If you're going to stay with the iPower 5V, then also try to do the cheaper mod i posted above. You can eliminate the need for the power section mod.

 

23 hours ago, elan120 said:

The RED circle is where the stock LD1086 used to be.

SU-1 with LPS-1 at 7V - v2.jpg

 

I see you also went with the Lightning V2. :D So many people listened to my recommendation.

I do recommend changing the electrolytic capacitors to something that isn't Nichicon KA. Those audiophile capacitors generally have higher ESR and woulnd't work optimally in digital circuits where faster charge/discharge becomes more important. The higher materials of audiophile are also more tailored for analog circuits such as amplifier stages, coupling, or power filtering than they do digital decoupling. However there is an exception for using midfield ESR capacitors nearby the discrete voltage regulator for better transient response, voltage holding, phase stability, and current handling. 

 

Other than that, your setup is fantastic. Are you using the iUSB 3.0 with your Gemini cable?

I have a Mercury since I don't have the split output like you do. You might want to look into galvanic isolation in the future either from the ISO REGEN or iGalvanic (releases in June) but then that means no more Gemini :/.

 

P.S. What's that PCB mounted to what looks like the negative pin of your 5V input?

 

22 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

Perfect, thank you! 

Is the whole body of the original LD1086 soldered down or just the pins? If I need to heat the whole thing, any recommendations on how avoid overheating the rest of the board? I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, but not with SMD components.

 

@elan120 is right! Best to use a sharp tool to cut the GND and INPUT legs off first followed by adding flux to the output pad, heating it up, and lifting it off with some pliers. Afterwards you'll just be left with the floating legs, heat those up and they should come right off. Mount the SS11117XX in the same sideways position as the LD1086, bend the legs (lead) slightly forward and affix them. Make sure to use a decent amount of flux and not too much solder. Once done, clean the joints with some 99% isopropyl alcohol and you're set.

 

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

I guess I'm feeling adventuresome -  just ordered the Sparkos regulator for my SU-1.

I'm preparing an order from Digikey for another project right now, so I'll throw those caps into my shopping cart too.

 

If I "brick" my SU-1 I'm going to ship the carcass to @Energy for making it look so easy that a knucklehead like me could perform this mod too.  lol!  :D  

 

Did you make sure to order the SS1117XX in +3.3V (positive output)? The stock LD1086 is a fixed output regulator so no need for for any further modifications to the voltage divider. Just replace it and you're done. Make sure to order the right capacitors that I posted. You'll need a effective solder sucker to make replacing the capacitors an easier task. I recommend the EDSYN DELUXE SOLDAPULLT DS017. If you (or anyone) run into issues with the mod, feel free to send it over to me and i'll sprinkle some holy water on it.

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4 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

Speaking of the stock 5v regulator (I realize this is not what the question was about):

When feeding from an external 5v source, the stock 5v regulator is bypassed. There's no reason to replace it, then.

 

It's bypassed since it won't be connected anyway so. O.o

 

4 hours ago, elan120 said:

Agreed, and I originally thought it may not help much, but seeing other posts about how to run one LPS-1 together with upcoming ISO Regen and SU-1, and I happened to have a LT3045 laying around, so I thought I will give it a try since I want to replace the internal cable to 4S6 anyway.  To my surprise, after plug-in the modded cable with LT3045 and listened the whole weekend, this mod will for sure stay.

 

The ISO REGEN and SU-1 can both be powered by a single LPS-1 set to 5V.

All voltage regulators have a dropout voltage in which the voltage they receive must be higher than what they can produce. Some voltage regulators have a lower dropout voltage than others. Since the ISO REGEN is set to take in 6-9V, it in turn can effectively regulate and output 5V. If you feed the ISO REGEN 5V, then it becomes too low for the internal regulators to function as they themselves need voltage to work. This in turn will bypass regulation at the output thus what goes in is what goes out "unregulated". Now the good news is that both the LPS-1 and ISO REGEN are comprised of the exact same Texas Instruments TPS7A4700 voltage regulators, so even if ISO REGEN isn't regulating 5V through it's circuit, the voltage that it output is still regulated voltage from the LPS-1. It measures 4.95V to be exact and works perfectly fine in powering the SU-1's USB input receiver with clean energy.

 

Using a step down voltage regulator to convert 7V to 5V will only add additional noise.

I reckon the SU-1 powered by the LPS-1 5V will sound better than it being powered by the 7V with a LT3045.

 

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28 minutes ago, Energy said:

Did you make sure to order the SS1117XX in +3.3V (positive output)? The stock LD1086 is a fixed output regulator so no need for for any further modifications to the voltage divider. Just replace it and you're done. 

 

A related question: does the SS111733 need a heatsink? The step-down voltage is fairly low and power consumption is low as well, so hoping that no heatsink is needed. 

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54 minutes ago, Energy said:

I see you also went with the Lightning V2. :D So many people listened to my recommendation.

I do recommend changing the electrolytic capacitors to something that isn't Nichicon KA. Those audiophile capacitors generally have higher ESR and woulnd't work optimally in digital circuits where faster charge/discharge becomes more important. The higher materials of audiophile are also more tailored for analog circuits such as amplifier stages, coupling, or power filtering than they do digital decoupling. However there is an exception for using midfield ESR capacitors nearby the discrete voltage regulator for better transient response, voltage holding, phase stability, and current handling. 

 

Other than that, your setup is fantastic. Are you using the iUSB 3.0 with your Gemini cable?

I have a Mercury since I don't have the split output like you do. You might want to look into galvanic isolation in the future either from the ISO REGEN or iGalvanic (releases in June) but then that means no more Gemini :/.

 

P.S. What's that PCB mounted to what looks like the negative pin of your 5V input?

I sure did, as a result of your recommendation on the Lightning V2.

 

The 5 caps I have on the main board is an interim thing since I have few leftovers from another project, and were waiting on few other things I want to order along with lower ESR caps.  I should be getting the better suited caps right before this coming weekend, and will put them in over the weekend to see how much difference they make.

 

You have very sharp eyes.  Gemini cable is connected to Micro iUSB 3.0, and I do have ISO Regen and LPS-1 combo coming once Alex is back from his vacation (got in the pre-order batch).

 

The PCB thing is my just installed LT3045 set at 5V, taking 7V output from LPS-1.  I have the LT3045 laying around so while I was upgrading internal cable to 4S6, I decided to try this idea that I have for a short while, and to my own surprise, the result is actually quite good, so I am going to keep it. 

 

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43 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

A related question: does the SS111733 need a heatsink? The step-down voltage is fairly low and power consumption is low as well, so hoping that no heatsink is needed. 

A heatsink should not be needed.  The regulator power dissipation should be below 0.2W.

 

The Belleson regulator I installed into my SU-1 runs just a few degrees above ambient without a heatsink.

 

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10 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

A related question: does the SS111733 need a heatsink? The step-down voltage is fairly low and power consumption is low as well, so hoping that no heatsink is needed. 

 

Barely warm to the touch although a heatsink will look nice and only cost about $0.25.9_9

 

10 hours ago, T-Bone said:

 

@Energy- can you double-check my Digi-Key part numbers?  

 

 

There are two versions, 5.0mm and 3.5mm lead spacing. You should be getting the 3.5mm version. The link you provided is 5.0mm.

 

10 hours ago, elan120 said:

I sure did, as a result of your recommendation on the Lightning V2.

 

The 5 caps I have on the main board is an interim thing since I have few leftovers from another project, and were waiting on few other things I want to order along with lower ESR caps.  I should be getting the better suited caps right before this coming weekend, and will put them in over the weekend to see how much difference they make.

 

You have very sharp eyes.  Gemini cable is connected to Micro iUSB 3.0, and I do have ISO Regen and LPS-1 combo coming once Alex is back from his vacation (got in the pre-order batch).

 

The PCB thing is my just installed LT3045 set at 5V, taking 7V output from LPS-1.  I have the LT3045 laying around so while I was upgrading internal cable to 4S6, I decided to try this idea that I have for a short while, and to my own surprise, the result is actually quite good, so I am going to keep it. 

 

 

Great. Make sure to double check Belleson to see if low ESR can affect their regulators in any negative ways as input/output caps prior to installation.

 

If you're using the ISO and LPS-1 soon does this mean you're selling off the iUSB? Doesn't make a lot of sense for double regeneration/reclock/rebalance in series.

 

And honestly if it sounds better to you then go for it :D !

 

On a technical level it would be added noise but sometimes there are abnomalies in audio that just doesn't make sense. 

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1 hour ago, Energy said:

There are two versions, 5.0mm and 3.5mm lead spacing. You should be getting the 3.5mm version. The link you provided is 5.0mm.

Thanks for the catch!

For anyone else looking to make this change, the Panasonic 330µF 25V cap with 3.5mm lead spacing is Digi-Key P14415-ND

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Does anyone know if I can use the LPS1 set at 7v req. for mR, AND the SU-1...which takes only 5v?

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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1 minute ago, Forehaven said:

Does anyone know if I can use the LPS1 set at 7v req. for mR, AND the SU-1...which takes only 5v?

This won't work.  You can set the lps-1 to 7vdc then use a low noise voltage regulator to convert that to 5 vdc for the SU-1.   There are some good low noise regulators available on eBay for around $20.  I use a few myself.

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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2 hours ago, Forehaven said:

Does anyone know if I can use the LPS1 set at 7v req. for mR, AND the SU-1...which takes only 5v?

 

 

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

This won't work.  You can set the lps-1 to 7vdc then use a low noise voltage regulator to convert that to 5 vdc for the SU-1.   There are some good low noise regulators available on eBay for around $20.  I use a few myself.

That is what I did with the post below...a possible solution to run single LPS-1 at 7V to both units.

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31589-iso-regen-launch-thread-product-web-page-up-photos-etc/?do=findComment&comment=659799

 

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Hi 

 

Has anybody done a comparison of the Singxer su-1 Kitsune tuned vs the su-1 powered by an lps1? 

 

I'm keen on hearing your thoughts as I'm not sure which way to go

 

Cheers 

Speakers [Audio Physic Virgo V] Amps [Musical Fidelity 750k x 2] Pre [Musical Fidelity A1 FBP] DAC [North Star Supremo] Transport [North Star Magnifico] Power [Acoustic Revive RTP-6 Ultimate] Cables [Acoustic Revive] Rack [Finite Elemente Pagode Signature] Room Tuning [Acoustic Revive RWL-3 & RR-77] Streamer [Auralic Aries +  Phasure Lush USB > Uptone Iso Regen + Lps 1]

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I was pleased to learn that the SU-1 firmware update is available to support native DSD512. The version 2.22 FW is for PS Audio / Matrix, according to Singxer. However, I have upgraded firmware to 2.22 but output from HQ Player using the XMOS ASIO driver still only allows DoP to DSD256!
 
I have the Singxer SU-1 with all jumpers set to off (Matrix / PS Audio standard), connected via USB to my Windows 10 computer, I2S output from the SU-1 to a Matrix X-Sabre Pro which is capable of native DSD512, but still only DoP 256.
 
Is there something else I need to do?
 
Help appreciated.

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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6 minutes ago, LoryWiv said:
I was pleased to learn that the SU-1 firmware update is available to support native DSD512. The version 2.22 FW is for PS Audio / Matrix, according to Singxer. However, I have upgraded firmware to 2.22 but output from HQ Player using the XMOS ASIO driver still only allows DoP to DSD256!
 
I have the Singxer SU-1 with all jumpers set to off (Matrix / PS Audio standard), connected via USB to my Windows 10 computer, I2S output from the SU-1 to a Matrix X-Sabre Pro which is capable of native DSD512, but still only DoP 256.
 
Is there something else I need to do?
 
Help appreciated.

The SU-1 XMOS USB Windows driver only supports DSD via DoP, thus no native DSD512.  I think you need to try installing the Matrix USB driver against the SU-1.  Upgrading the SU-1 firmware to 2.22 alone is not enough.  The USB driver must also have support for native DSD, but the SU-1 USB driver does not. 

 

I received similar instructions to get my SU-1 to drive native DSD512 over I2S into my Holo Audio Spring DAC: uninstall the SU-1 USB driver and install the Spring DAC USB driver and use it with the SU-1.  The Spring's USB driver will install for the SU-1.  I don't know if the same is true for your Matrix X-Sabre Pro.  You will need to try the installation to find out.

 

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55 minutes ago, scan80269 said:

he SU-1 XMOS USB Windows driver only supports DSD via DoP, thus no native DSD512.  I think you need to try installing the Matrix USB driver against the SU-1.  Upgrading the SU-1 firmware to 2.22 alone is not enough.  The USB driver must also have support for native DSD, but the SU-1 USB driver does not. 

 

I received similar instructions to get my SU-1 to drive native DSD512 over I2S into my Holo Audio Spring DAC: uninstall the SU-1 USB driver and install the Spring DAC USB driver and use it with the SU-1.  The Spring's USB driver will install for the SU-1.  I don't know if the same is true for your Matrix X-Sabre Pro.  You will need to try the installation to find out.

 

Makes sense, scan80269, and a version of your advice proved successful! I uninstalled the Singxer driver but unfortunately the Matrix driver was not able to recognize SU-1. Next, I uninstalled the Matrix driver and installed the Holo Spring driver --> voila, I am now happily enjoying native DSD 512!

 

Sincere thanks!

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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25 minutes ago, LoryWiv said:

Makes sense, scan80269, and a version of your advice proved successful! I uninstalled the Singxer driver but unfortunately the Matrix driver was not able to recognize SU-1. Next, I uninstalled the Matrix driver and installed the Holo Spring driver --> voila, I am now happily enjoying native DSD 512!

 

Sincere thanks!

Glad to hear you were successful!

 

So the SU-1 USB driver and new firmware together enable native DSD512 output to I2S, and the firmware revision (2.20 vs. 2.22) and the DIP switches take care of the specific I2S needs of the DAC.  When using the I2S input of a DAC, there is no USB driver directly supporting it, but instead it is the SU-1 that is configured via USB driver and firmware to send native DSD512 to its IS2 output.  The Holo Audio Spring USB driver happens to be exactly what the SU-1 needs in this case.

 

You've also proven that the SU-1 with Spring USB driver can support DACs (with I2S input) other than the Spring itself, so the Spring USB driver is not just for the Spring DAC only.

 

 

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