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My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC


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7 hours ago, ted_b said:

1) yes, any decent power cable will help

2) never turn off the SU-1.  The clocks would take too long to reach equilibrium for my tastes (hours+)

3) Version 2.5 of Sonic Oribiter ($20 microRendu upgrade for new sd card) gives you SU-1 native DSD support.  Furthermore, 2.2 of SU-1 gives you DSD512 (this firmware is only available to Kitsune customers AFAIK).  Some say new Kitusne SU-1s ship with it, but not sure when Tim will send to others.  I reported on my beta version earlier.

 

Hey Ted,

 

I have 3 months without using my Microrendu, so if i understand well once i start listen to my system again do i have to pay $20 bucks to have it upgrade it?

 

I am lost here!

 

Best!

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1 minute ago, mikicasellas said:

 

Hey Ted,

 

I have 3 months without using my Microrendu, so if i understand well once i start listen to my system again do i have to pay $20 bucks to have it upgrade it?

 

I am lost here!

 

Best!

The $20 is for those who want 2.5 of the OS.  What do you get with 2.5?  Read the microRendu thread, but in summary you get a new sd card, support for the OS going forward (to, say, 2.6), the Linux-based DSD pop goes away, and several new DACs and DDCs are included in the native DSD certification program, including the SU-1 (i.e SU-1 now plays native rather than DoP).  BTW, if you end up getting the 2.2 firmware from Tim, the SU-1 will go to DSD512...but not if you use the microRendu at 2.3 OS, cuz DoP won't do DSD512, only native.

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3 hours ago, ted_b said:

1)  try either.  There are many good low end power cords.

3)  There is a pdf included with the driver download on the Kitsune site.  It shows how to connect your SU-1 and check/update firmware via your pc.

Thanks, Ted. I am running firmware 2.02. I'll contact Tim and ask if 2.2 is out of beta, and stable. Don't want to brick my unit or void warranty just days after getting it. B| If it's stable and does native DSD512, though, I'm in! :D

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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10 hours ago, ted_b said:

Sorry, Lorywiv it only is intended for Holo Spring, I believe.  I don't think it works for other I2S DSD setups.

You are correct, Ted..Tim at Kitsune responded to my email with the same info. I concede I don't fully understand why the DDC FW is DAC specific or why driver releases don't utilize the full capacity of hardware. That said, I am sure there are technical complexities and cost factors that a humble music enthusiast like myself w/o audio engineering training cannot grasp. I do hope there is a more generally applicable FW released for the SU-1 soon.

 

Of note, when I had the Matrix X-Sabre Pro as the primary USB host using Matrix driver, HQPlayer allowed direct DSD to 512. After inserting the SU-1 into my chain as USB input interface and installing it's XMOS driver on my PC, HQPlayer still shows the Matrix driver on it's list but doesn't allow it to be used, only the SU-1's XMOS driver. I assume that's because the "active" USB driver HQPlayer recognizes is the one referenced to the current USB input device. Please educate me if there is a way I can use the Matrix driver with SU-1 in chain to workaround the DSD256 / DoP limitation I currently experience.

 

Thanks, and sincere best!

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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HQP sees the SU-1, then the SU-1 sees the Matrix, so no, there is no workaround. 

 

Put pressure on Singxer to deliver a non-Holo driver and firmware.  The synergy between the SU-1 and Holo is due to the fact that 1) the firmware was done with a Spring dac in mind, and 2) the Spring drivers are used.  So, I would lobby SIngxer.  Tim is only their dealer in this case.

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Makes sense, appreciated. The Singxer home page does have an email contact listed, although hard to know how impactful the request will be I'll give it a try.

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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This is the information on the Singxer website.

The email address come back as Message Delivery Failure. At least the first one below did.  I tried clicking them and typing out the address and no luck. If anyone has a working email address it would be nice to have it posted.

 

Guangzhou Singxer Electronic Co., Ltd.

 

Address: new town, Panyu District, Guangzhou City

Address: Panyu District xinzao town of Guangzhou City

Phone: 180-7881-2020

Phone number: 86 180-7881-2020

Contact: Mr. Chen

Contacts:Mr.chen

E-mail :looking @ singxer .com

E-mailleter15@foxmail.com

Skype: looking @ singxer .com

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2 hours ago, Evo-No-Revo said:

This is the information on the Singxer website.

The email address come back as Message Delivery Failure. At least the first one below did.  I tried clicking them and typing out the address and no luck. If anyone has a working email address it would be nice to have it posted.

 

Guangzhou Singxer Electronic Co., Ltd.

 

Address: new town, Panyu District, Guangzhou City

Address: Panyu District xinzao town of Guangzhou City

Phone: 180-7881-2020

Phone number: 86 180-7881-2020

Contact: Mr. Chen

Contacts:Mr.chen

E-mail :looking @ singxer .com

E-mailleter15@foxmail.com

Skype: looking @ singxer .com

I noticed the extra space before .com above, corrected it, and sent them an email requesting Firmware / Driver update to support native DSD512 for us non-Holo Dac owners as well. The top email still either bounces or aliases to another, but let's see if the other goes through and gets a response.

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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On 4/30/2017 at 4:31 AM, Energy said:

 

I figured but wanted to make sure.

 

i plan to replace mine with Nichicon FPCAP, R5 model. Ultra-Low ESR like your LE model at 5 milliohm. Great choice by the way.

 

I noticed you replaced the 24MHz oscillator for the XMOS with a 10ppm for better precision.

 

1. Do you by any chance know what the old one was rated at? All I can see on the top surface is "T240 EINO". I'm guessing it's 30-50ppm standard crystal.

 

2. Is there another one available that's lower than 10ppm?

 

3. Can you possibly link me to the part on Mouser? I don't know the dimension. 

 

I really appreciate it.

 

-------

 

I will post a photo of my upgrades soon with the following:

 

- 5x Nichicon FPCAP (R5) 390uF 6.3V

- UpTone LPS-1 [5V]

- 24MHz Oscillator [10ppm]

- Sparkos Labs SS78XX Regulator [3.3V]

- Canare 4S6 Star Quad Cable

Hi Energy,

 

I also gone with the RR5 390uF 6.3V and the Sparkos SS78XX 3.3V.  One question I noticed in reading Sparkos datasheet they mentioned the following:

 

External Input and Output Capacitors: These discrete voltage regulators have an internal 10µF tantalum polymer output capacitor. As such, no external output capacitors are required for normal operation or stability. However, the transient response can be improved by having an external 100µF low ESR electrolytic output capacitor. A Panasonic EEU - FR1H101B type capacitor (100µF 50V 65mΩ ESR) is the recommended output capacitor. Output capacitors placed close to the regulators output that are of ceramic or film type are not recommended due to their extremely low (sub 10mΩ) ESR. Capacitors of this type will degrade the phase margin of the voltage regulator and worsen the transient response and ringing. Utilizing an electrolytic or tantalum output capacitor is preferred due to their higher ESR of several tens of mΩ as opposed to sub 10mΩ.

 

Is one of the 5 on the mainboard an output capacitor that would warrant caution?

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Hi BlueSaint from Head-Fi,

 

Welcome to the forum! Since this is your first post, I'll do you a favor. Enjoy.

 

I actually ended up going with:

- (3) Nichicon FPCAP (R7) 220μF 6.3V 7mΩ

- (2) Panasonic FR EEU-FR1E331 330μF 25V - 56mΩ

- (1) Abracon ASTX-H11 24MHz TCXO Oscillator 2.5ppm

- (1) Sparkos Labs SS78XX Discrete Voltage Regulator 3.3V

- (1) Aavid Thermalloy 507302B00000G TO-220 2.5W Low Profile Heatsink

- (1) Aavid Thermalloy 4880SG TO-220 Mounting Kit

- (1) Canare 4S8 Star Quad Cable 1FT

- (1) Canare 4S6 Star Quad Cable 3FT

- (1) VH Series VHR-2N 2 Position Rectangular Housing Connector Receptacle

- (2) VH Series SVH-41T-P1.1 Contact Crimp Socket 16-20 AWG

- (2) Switchcraft PC722A Female DC Input Connector (2.1mm x 5.5mm)

- (4) Switchcraft S760 Male DC Plug (2.1mm x 5.5mm)

- (2) Switchcraft JCAP Power Jack Seal Cap

 

The R7 series (RR7) is rated at 7mΩ, not far off from 5mΩ (R5). At similar capacitance values, it has almost 10x less leakage current than R5 (RR5). It's dissipation factor (tanδ) is also better at half the amount.

 

I'm not sure how low impedance (ESR) ceramic's go but if I can recall film are 0.1mΩ and below. As far as I can see from the top of the PCB, the stock LD1086's GND is connected to two of the ceramic SMD capacitors which are connected to the ground plane. The voltage regulator's input and output is connected to separate planes that are traced back to each of the stock Panasonic FC 220uF 25V.

 

Panasonic FR "EEU-FR1H101" electrolytic capacitor is actually 61mΩ not 65mΩ. Andrew must've made a typo.

Anyways, I would NOT recommend going below 220μF as there's no telling how much the circuit takes, 100μF may not be enough. It's always better to have more than have less. However, when it comes to ESR, having higher capacitance or voltage rating can lower ESR further. You need to selectively choose the right one that will fit the circuit along with seeing what works best for the discrete voltage regulator.

 

I found two below: (fairly close to 65mΩ but at the right capacitance)

Panasonic FR EEU-FR1V221 220μF 35V - 56mΩ

Panasonic FR EEU-FR1E221 220μF 25V - 56mΩ

 

They have the exact same specification and have better ripple current of 950γ than the 100μF (870γ).

If you try pushing above 56mΩ, the next value is 130mΩ, so it is not advised.

 

Digi-Key did not have the two fore-mentioned capacitors so I ended going with the next best thing.

Panasonic FR EEU-FR1E331 330μF 25V - 56mΩ

 

You can also get away with getting 470μF in 10V and 16V. Both provides 56mΩ.

Personally I wouldn't go with too high of a capacitance since the higher value is, the longer it takes the capacitor to charge (theoretically speaking). ESR is just the measurement in which a capacitor can discharge.

 

Right now I'm waiting for my parts to come in so I can modify mine and @tboooe's unit.

 

Cheers,

Timothy

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P.S. 

The stock Panasonic FC 220μF 25V is rated at 117mΩ.

Little high but would probably be better than having a lower value. xD

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On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 10:10 PM, LoryWiv said:

I noticed the extra space before .com above, corrected it, and sent them an email requesting Firmware / Driver update to support native DSD512 for us non-Holo Dac owners as well. The top email still either bounces or aliases to another, but let's see if the other goes through and gets a response.

 

Good news: Leter responded to my email as follows:

Hi Lory

we will release the new firmware version this week.

the V2.22 is update for v2.02

the v2.20 is update for v2.00

you DAC is XSP,you can use V2.22.

thanks a lot

Leter

 

I will ask Tim if it will be available on Kitsune site for his customers.

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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7 hours ago, Energy said:

Right now I'm waiting for my parts to come in so I can modify mine and @tboooe's unit.

 

Cheers,

Timothy

Very much looking forward to this mod!  Thank you Timothy!!!!

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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I have decided to have Tim (Kitsune) do his own mod on my SU-1 as long as he has it for the stupid USB repair (arrived Monday but Tim is buried).  It's a mod that affects the internal ps so I will be able to write about it, and even if I do the LPS-1 (have the kit) thing I can then compare.  Anyway, one more data point.  :)

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Cool Ted, Thanks for doing that!

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

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19 hours ago, bluesaint said:

Hi Energy,

 

I also gone with the RR5 390uF 6.3V and the Sparkos SS78XX 3.3V.  One question I noticed in reading Sparkos datasheet they mentioned the following:

 

External Input and Output Capacitors: These discrete voltage regulators have an internal 10µF tantalum polymer output capacitor. As such, no external output capacitors are required for normal operation or stability. However, the transient response can be improved by having an external 100µF low ESR electrolytic output capacitor. A Panasonic EEU - FR1H101B type capacitor (100µF 50V 65mΩ ESR) is the recommended output capacitor. Output capacitors placed close to the regulators output that are of ceramic or film type are not recommended due to their extremely low (sub 10mΩ) ESR. Capacitors of this type will degrade the phase margin of the voltage regulator and worsen the transient response and ringing. Utilizing an electrolytic or tantalum output capacitor is preferred due to their higher ESR of several tens of mΩ as opposed to sub 10mΩ.

 

Is one of the 5 on the mainboard an output capacitor that would warrant caution?

Two of the 5 electrolytic capacitors sit on the output (+3.3V) side of the LD1086 regulator.  There are also several SMD ceramic caps but I don't know their values.

 

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11 hours ago, Energy said:

I actually ended up going with:

- (1) Canare 4S8 Star Quad Cable 1FT

Timothy, I assume this cable is for the internal DC cable in the SU-1?  If so, any reason why you chose to go with this cable for the internal cable instead of the 4S6?

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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3 hours ago, tboooe said:

Timothy, I assume this cable is for the internal DC cable in the SU-1?  If so, any reason why you chose to go with this cable for the internal cable instead of the 4S6?

 

I'm doing something a little more unique with my SU-1. :P

 

Instead of trying to jam (which won't work) two Canare 4S6 Star Quad into a single DC plug and making a Y-Cable, I decided to drill two holes in the back of my SU-1 to accommodate DC Input & DC Output. One will be slightly above the RCA output while the other above the BNC output.

 

Since the UpTone LPS-1 will be splitting power with two different devices (SU-1 and ISO REGEN) I decided to use the thicker Canare 4S8 Star Quad as it has lower resistance (higher conductivity) and higher dampening factor compared to the 4S6. This is achieved by the thicker #13 overall gauge versus the 4S6's #17.

 

UpTone LPS-1 > Canare 4S8 Star Quad > Singxer SU-1

 

From the SU-1's DC input connector another inch length of 4S8 cable will be connected to the DC output connector. From there the Canare 4S6 will be used to connect the DC Input to the SU-1 board. The same 4S6 cable will be used to go from the DC Output to the ISO REGEN. This makes things more convenient as it lets me use two separate cables and this time with one being even thicker. 

 

DC Output < DC Input > PCB Board

 

In the future if I do decide to get another LPS-1 for the ISO REGEN I would simply just pull out the DC Output cable, seal up the socket with a Switchcraft JCAP that's already always mounted to the connector, and use that same cable to go from the second LPS-1 to the ISO REGEN. This is much better than having to rework the Y-Cable and remove one of the cables or have it dangling there for no reason.

 

I'll send you a message in just a bit.

 

Cheers,

Timothy

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3 hours ago, tboooe said:

Timothy, I assume this cable is for the internal DC cable in the SU-1?  If so, any reason why you chose to go with this cable for the internal cable instead of the 4S6?

 

As the internal DC cable feeding the mainboard only needs 5v, any decent awg/quality twisted pair copper will work.  4S8 is 4x16awg vs. 4s6 with 4x20awg   So combined awg for 4S8 is 13awg while 4S6 is 17awg.

 

Both are overkill for less than 1ft run, so there would be zero difference in practice if its used as internal cable.

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5 minutes ago, bluesaint said:

 

As the internal DC cable feeding the mainboard only needs 5v, any decent awg/quality twisted pair copper will work.  4S8 is 4x16awg vs. 4s6 with 4x20awg   So combined awg for 4S8 is 13awg while 4S6 is 17awg.

 

Both are overkill for less than 1ft run, so there would be zero difference in practice if its used as internal cable.

 

My last name is overkill. xD

 

913.jpg

915.jpg

 

No real need for the 4S8 unless you start going for meter lengths.

Still, If it only cost an additional $0.40 why not? Audiophile game is toxic.

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I'm probably just going to use 4S6 at this point since I've eliminated the need for a Y-Cable or dual DC sockets thanks to @bluesaint by utilizing an iPower 9V with the ISO REGEN.

 

Anyways, at lengths shorter than meters, thicker wires aren't needed, but like I said, audiophiles do things in excess so if itt can calm down a persons nerves, why not. Just try and account diminishing returns every so often when you start to spend more than you should.

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4 minutes ago, Energy said:

audiophiles do things in excess

I have a few feet of 4S8 at home and like any respectable audiophile, I will be definitely be going overboard and using this instead of that wimpy 4S6 cable!! :)

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

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2 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I have a few feet of 4S8 at home and like any respectable audiophile, I will be definitely be going overboard and using this instead of that wimpy 4S6 cable!! :)

 

Haha kudos to you dude. It's quite large sitting at 8.4mm if I recall so even if you used a something like a Switchcraft S760 you'll still have to use a cutoff disk to cut the back housing to accommodate the cable. This is why I might end up just using the 4S6 instead so heatshrink can go over it better for a cleaner look. Who knows, I'll have to see how bendable the 4S8 cable is first (it's on it's way).

 

I decided to just use Switchcraft instead of Oyaide. I couldn't justify $20 plugs just for gold plating and a metal housing. DC cables don't need shielding so there's little points other than for aesthetic purposes. They're all nickel plated (and gold over) over brass conductors anyway, even the Oyaide.

 

Black housing looks better for my setup so I'l going with those then putting a 1/4" white heatshrink over the back and possibly a 3/16" clear heatshrink under that one for strain relief. Inside will be glued up.

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