My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC

[tboooe]

Let me first say I am not good at reviewing audio products. I dont focus on minute details nor do I have "golden ears". All I care about is if the music is enjoyable and pleasant to me. So hopefully I have properly lowered everyone's expectations here we go....

So I've had the SU-1 for exactly a week now. It replaced a MUTEC MC3+USB. I reason why I got rid of the MUTEC was because it does not support DSD (well it does but it converts up to DSD256 to PCM). My plan is to upgrade my DAC to one that can accept native DSD via I2S(not DoP) so getting the SU-1 was the first step towards this upgrade. I am using the SPDIF BNC output.

I would characterize the SU-1 as clear, crisp and dynamic. Strings, drum, etc sound very well defined and have just enough of an edge without sounding bright or too sharp. High and lows are presented with a lot of energy and detail I did not hear previously with the MUTEC. The overall sound is very very clear, open, airy. Notes just rise in the air and lingers in a pleasant way. In no way is the SU-1 bright though.

The midrange is where I am bit more conflicted. I will admit I am a bit of a closet/wannabe tube guy, though due to laziness I dont own any tube gear. I listen to mainly female vocals and acoustic music so I like a warm, intimate, organic environment. The MUTEC presented the midrange with more weight and texture (aside...maybe the texture I am hearing is graininess which the SU-1 definitely does not at all). There is more of a 3d effect with the MUTEC. Vocals seem to have shape and size. With the SU-1, vocals are definitely more flat and not as "warm". I wont go so far as to say mids are bleached out but compared to the MUTEC, the SU-1 presents mids in a different way. In my system, which already leans towards the warm and lush side, the SU-1 provides a good balance.

Overall, I am very pleased with the SU-1. The dynamics and energy of the SU-1 is very addictive. I was worried that perhaps I was falling in love with the BOSE effect but after a week, I havent experienced any listener fatigue. I am still trying to get my head wrapped around the presentation of the midrange though. However, i would say this comment is purely based on preference and not some shortcoming of the SU-1.

The build quality of the SU-1 is fantastic. Installing the driver was a breeze. Note that the included driver does not have settings for latency and buffer size which I am used to having.

Hope this proves useful to someone.

[franz159]

I was almost sold on this or the F1, but your comments on midrange is holding me now....

[tboooe]

I was almost sold on this or the F1, but your comments on midrange is holding me now....

Well for less $200 it could be worth going for the F-1 anyway.

 

Also want to make sure that no one gets the impression that the SU-1 is lean or bright. Relative to the Mutec, the SU-1 does not sound as warm and lush. I think most people would probably say my system is overly warm and maybe too syrupy in the midrange. This is why I made the comment that the SU-1 balances out my system.

[plissken]

So is the primary use of this to feed older DAC's?

[tboooe]

So is the primary use of this to feed older DAC's?

Yes it can be used for that. But it's USB implementation may be better than what is available on a modern DAC, allowing you to use inputs that may sound better.

[franz159]

Well for less $200 it could be worth going for the F-1 anyway.

 

Also want to make sure that no one gets the impression that the SU-1 is lean or bright. Relative to the Mutec, the SU-1 does not sound as warm and lush. I think most people would probably say my system is overly warm and maybe too syrupy in the midrange. This is why I made the comment that the SU-1 balances out my system.

 

Thanks.

 

I have a question on drivers though: will the F1 require any driver on debian linux?

More precisely, I'd curious to experiment with the F1 on my raspberry pi3 but I would like to be sure it would work in first place....

This would be the resulting chain I would set up raspberry-->Uptone USB regen-->Singxer F1-->Chord Mojo Dac

[plissken]

Yes it can be used for that. But it's USB implementation may be better than what is available on a modern DAC, allowing you to use inputs that may sound better.

 

But you aren't ultimately using it's USB implementation. You are using it's AES/EBU or S/PDif output, You are also using the S/PDif or AES/EBU input of what ever you are feeding. If that unit didn't have good USB implementation why would the other interfaces be any better? You are also relying on it's clock. Where you previously had a better async interface.

[plissken]

Thanks.

 

I have a question on drivers though: will the F1 require any driver on debian linux?

More precisely, I'd curious to experiment with the F1 on my raspberry pi3 but I would like to be sure it would work in first place....

This would be the resulting chain I would set up raspberry-->Uptone USB regen-->Singxer F1-->Chord Mojo Dac

 

Why wouldn't you take the $400, $175, $599 (Singxer, Uptone, Mojo) and simply purchase a $1200 DAC?

 

That's just puzzling.

[franz159]

Why wouldn't you take the $400, $175, $599 (Singxer, Uptone, Mojo) and simply purchase a $1200 DAC?

 

That's just puzzling.

 

First of all, I'm looking at the Singxer F1 (200$ with case) and not ath the SU-1 (400$).

Having said that, I see your point, my total would be 200$ (F1) + 150$ (Regen) + 600$ (MoJo) = 950$.

 

The thing is I already have Regen and MoJo (I used this in my frequent travels) and I was just wondering if the addition of the F1 USB/Spdif converter could improve compared to the direct use of the USB out of the Raspberry into the Regen and then the Dac.

[tboooe]

If that unit didn't have good USB implementation why would the other interfaces be any better? You are also relying on it's clock. Where you previously had a better async interface.

Not sure I understand your point here. There are plenty of instances where people prefer the AES or spdif input of their DAC's over its usb.

 

Are you certain the Mutec had a better asynchronous interface l. If so can you please explain why? I genuinely do not know.

[classfolkphile]

How many hours did you put on the SU-1?

 

I posted a review of it here: XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED! - Page 231

 

And then added this in a later post as the sound changed dramatically:

 

"An addendum to my short review of the Singxer SU-1 in post #3453. I had around 100-110 hours on it at the time and thought it was fully broken in as the recessed mid-range moved forward in line with the bass and treble then. The SU-1 is, as I noted, very revealing (much more so than the AR-T Legato it replaced) and I thought the coolness I heard was part of it's character (as the Legato/my system are slightly to the warm side).

 

So I was surprised when I turned it on at around 130 hours and heard a very harmonically rich, but accurate, presentation. Very pleasantly surprised."

[tboooe]

How many hours did you put on the SU-1?

 

ahhhh...I knew I forgot to include something in my original post. I only had about 40 hours on the SU-1. I think at this point I am up to 60 hours. I will pay attention to how the sound changes over time. Its interesting to see how much our initial impressions are similar though I must admit your review was much more eloquent than mine!

 

BTW, too bad that thread on Head-fi got locked. It was/is is a very good and informative one. I wish the mods would consider re-opening it.

[BobSherman]

Why wouldn't you take the $400, $175, $599 (Singxer, Uptone, Mojo) and simply purchase a $1200 DAC?

 

That's just puzzling.

Is the $1200 price for a DAC a special price point? Does that price make everything ok?

[plissken]

Is the $1200 price for a DAC a special price point? Does that price make everything ok?

 

I just thought about an overall budget and asking a 'what if'.

[BobSherman]

I just thought there was an overall budget and asking a 'what if'.

It's hard to generalize but if you do follow what has been said here and most other forums, an external USB device will usually be better than the built-in interfaces on just about any DAC. Better power supplies, isolation and the newest XMOS chipsets all seem to have a decided advantage over most internal USB interfaces. There are reasons people do this, not everything sounds the same, and not everything is as simple or as easy as you seem to think it is. This is a great place to learn if one actually wants.

[plissken]

It's hard to generalize but if you do follow what has been said here and most other forums, an external USB device will usually be better than the built-in interfaces on just about any DAC. Better power supplies, isolation and the newest XMOS chipsets .

 

You mean like the $99 Behringer UMC204HD? It uses the XMOS chipset, it can take an external power supply.

They're so damn hard to tell apart

[YashN]

The midrange is where I am bit more conflicted. I will admit I am a bit of a closet/wannabe tube guy, though due to laziness I dont own any tube gear. I listen to mainly female vocals and acoustic music so I like a warm, intimate, organic environment.

 

I highly recommend you try a SET Tube amp with efficient speakers (94+dB).

[tboooe]

I highly recommend you try a SET Tube amp with efficient speakers (94+dB).

My speakers are not efficient at all but I do not listen at high volumes so I am thinking of getting the Line Magnetic LM-518IA based on the 845 tube. Someone on the web uses this with the same speakers I have and says the sound is to do die for!

[plissken]

Bob, you mentioned the XMOS chipset and ability to externally power a chipset. I mention a $99 DAC that meets the points you brought up and instead of conversing you down vote?

 

So I take it Behringer isn't supposed to use the XMOS and allow for third party power supplies?

[YashN]

My speakers are not efficient at all but I do not listen at high volumes so I am thinking of getting the Line Magnetic LM-518IA based on the 845 tube. Someone on the web uses this with the same speakers I have and says the sound is to do die for!

 

Oh yes, LM SET looks very nice indeed. You should still get a good idea at normal volumes with speakers not efficient enough (which I currently have too) especially if you do not sit too far, but you know how it goes:

 

Once you hear the SET mid-range, your next pursuit will certainly be giving it the high-efficiency driver or speakers it needs to shine even more

[BobSherman]

Once you hear the SET mid-range, your next pursuit will certainly be giving it the high-efficiency driver or speakers it needs to shine even more

Very true, been there done that for many years. The problem is IMO you tend to limit your listening to fit the system and get away from (big) music which might sound as good with SETs and single drivers.

 

The 845 amp tboooe mentioned is a nice amp with power to drive less than efficient speakers.

[Rexp]

Very true, been there done that for many years. The problem is IMO you tend to limit your listening to fit the system and get away from (big) music which might sound as good with SETs and single drivers.

 

The 845 amp tboooe mentioned is a nice amp with power to drive less than efficient speakers.

+1

SET amps just don't rock, they became popular in the 90's, when I used to sell them with horns, because they provided an antidote to cold sterile digital sound at the time. Digital is much better now and the OP's speakers are great!

[xiddox]

The LM 518IA is an end game amplifier. I only sold mine to upgrade to the LM monoblocks.

It does, however, respond well to parts upgrades eg Duelund caps, Lundhal grid chokes, etc

[YashN]

SET amps just don't rock, they became popular in the 90's, when I used to sell them with horns, because they provided an antidote to cold sterile digital sound at the time. Digital is much better now and the OP's speakers are great!

 

Apparently they don't, but I've listened to Audioslave and Pearl Jam's Vitalogy today and mine does.

 

Before I built it though, I was reading the designer's comments of what he heard using KT-88 and Big Edcors compared to other tubes and Transformers in his test amp - more capacity in bass and treble, so that's what I chose for implementation.

 

This said, my current system doesn't go very low with the Mites on their own, so I am planning to build a new set of speakers with a great bottom end as well.

 

Digital is much better now, but I find that it still even better with my SET Tube amp.

[R1200CL]

How many hours did you put on the SU-1?

 

I posted a review of it here: XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED! - Page 231

 

And then added this in a later post as the sound changed dramatically:

 

"An addendum to my short review of the Singxer SU-1 in post #3453. I had around 100-110 hours on it at the time and thought it was fully broken in as the recessed mid-range moved forward in line with the bass and treble then. The SU-1 is, as I noted, very revealing (much more so than the AR-T Legato it replaced) and I thought the coolness I heard was part of it's character (as the Legato/my system are slightly to the warm side).

 

So I was surprised when I turned it on at around 130 hours and heard a very harmonically rich, but accurate, presentation. Very pleasantly surprised."

 

I'm looking to replace my hiFace EVO. This seems to be a good upgrade

 

My Theta Gen VIII dac does not have USB, so I need an USB/SPDIF converter.

 

I have the MicroRendu with the LPS-1. So I could VBus the F-1 version. (Which seems to be offered in an upgraded version according to some adds on eBay.)

 

The SU-1 seems to use the same F-1 board, right ?

 

In addition I can use my EVO clock on the SU-1. And of cause the AES/EBU interface.

 

Should I expect a better sonic performance with the SU-1 over the F-1 ?

 

A'm thinking that the power in the SU-1 may be a source for introducing more noise, am I wrong ?

 

Would I actually benefit to use the EVO clock ?

 

Does anyone know of this unit has the same HW ?

FUN01 XU208 XMOS USB Audio Digital Interface XLR/AES/fiber/coaxial + LPS | eBay

 

If yes, then this would really be good option withe the UpTone Audio LPS-1