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iDefender3.0 (Official) - USB Ground Loop Eliminator


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  • 3 months later...

Hi @AMR/iFi audio

 

I have an iPurifier 2 already.

 

Between a PC and USB Dac, which is better

 

1) Plug iDefender into PC USB port > 1.0m USB cable > iPurifier 2 plugged directly into USB Dac

 

or

 

2) Plug 1.0m USB cable into PC USB port > iDefender plugged directly into iPurifier 2 which is also plugged directly into USB Dac

 

Cheers

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Ok I just realised the iDefender can't plug into the iPurifier 2, without an adapter, so that that rules out #2 above. Apologies

 

In #1 above, is the iSilencer required or is that coverered by the USB iPurifier 2?

 

iSilencer reduces noise on computer's end, it's an addition to the whole chain, a cherry on top of everything else. It surely doesn't hurt to try it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

receive the Idefender today , it takes 2s to say that's it is better than my Vbooster Vbus2 isolator. ok it's double the price of the Vbus but it worth it .

 

i have a separate linear supply for the intona but it is sharing the same ground with my PC perhaps i must change that. anyway this orange plug works great for me.

PC audio /Roon + HQPLAYER / HOLO Spring 2 / / DIY AD1 SET tube amp  /  DIY Altec 2 way horn Speaker

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  • 2 weeks later...
iSilencer reduces noise on computer's end, it's an addition to the whole chain, a cherry on top of everything else. It surely doesn't hurt to try it.

 

Hi, I have the iDefender in between the computer and Chord Mojo Dac. Without the 5V iPower powering the iDefender, the music playback is fine, even though Chord says you need 5VBUS power for the Mojo.

 

Does this mean iDefender is doing nothing in this case and acting as a pass-through?

 

Or does the iDefender stop playback if the Dac downstream is not happy in terms of 5VBUS power?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12.03.2017 at 3:04 AM, Em2016 said:

 

Hi, I have the iDefender in between the computer and Chord Mojo Dac. Without the 5V iPower powering the iDefender, the music playback is fine, even though Chord says you need 5VBUS power for the Mojo.

 

Does this mean iDefender is doing nothing in this case and acting as a pass-through?

 

Or does the iDefender stop playback if the Dac downstream is not happy in terms of 5VBUS power?

 

The iDefender in effect disconnects the ground via a circuit that limits any fault voltage between grounds to a safe value. If enough current is drawn in the Vbus/Gnd loop, the iDefender will switch transparently into "bypass" to allow the downstream device to draw power.

 

Further, even in 'break ground connection' mode, the circuit is still capable of passing the static DC voltages referred to Gnd on the Data pins and on VBUS that are needed for handshake/speed negotiation/charging current negotiaton. 

 

This "pass DC" circuit is of very high impedance. Even a few 100uA will trigger it into bypass mode, where the ground & +B isolation is switched off and the iDefender acts as passthrough.

 

In most USB devices (actually all we know) that do not require USB power for internal operation the USB Vbus is connected via a protection resistor to a high impedance input for sensing Vbus. This circuit typically has extremely low DC current draw (1uA or less) so the iDefender will always isolate in these cases, as it will in cases where the attached USB device requires power and external power is supplied to the iDefender.

 

It is the various protection and "bypass" circuitry and the power switching that make the iDefender a fairly complex device, compared to simply curring a wire. It will also make sure the iDefender will not drop your DAC's connections in case when external DC is unplugged or the battery is empty. The latter may not sound like a big deal in a stationary hifi system but is important to our pro audio customers who use our products in studios during recording sessions or life events. Here a dropped recording session/DJ set/life music performance disturbed because of a 'loose wire' is absolutely unacceptable.

Our PowerStation is here: click me!

 

Check out our Tidal MQA Set-up Guides below. 
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2 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

The iDefender in effect disconnects the ground via a circuit that limits any fault voltage between grounds to a safe value. If enough current is drawn in the Vbus/Gnd loop, the iDefender will switch transparently into "bypass" to allow the downstream device to draw power.

 

Further, even in 'break ground connection' mode, the circuit is still capable of passing the static DC voltages referred to Gnd on the Data pins and on VBUS that are needed for handshake/speed negotiation/charging current negotiaton. 

 

This "pass DC" circuit is of very high impedance. Even a few 100uA will trigger it into bypass mode, where the ground & +B isolation is switched off and the iDefender acts as passthrough.

 

In most USB devices (actually all we know) that do not require USB power for internal operation the USB Vbus is connected via a protection resistor to a high impedance input for sensing Vbus. This circuit typically has extremely low DC current draw (1uA or less) so the iDefender will always isolate in these cases, as it will in cases where the attached USB device requires power and external power is supplied to the iDefender.

 

It is the various protection and "bypass" circuitry and the power switching that make the iDefender a fairly complex device, compared to simply curring a wire. It will also make sure the iDefender will not drop your DAC's connections in case when external DC is unplugged or the battery is empty. The latter may not sound like a big deal in a stationary hifi system but is important to our pro audio customers who use our products in studios during recording sessions or life events. Here a dropped recording session/DJ set/life music performance disturbed because of a 'loose wire' is absolutely unacceptable.

 

Top notch reply. Thanks again gents.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/24/2017 at 9:02 AM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

The iDefender in effect disconnects the ground via a circuit that limits any fault voltage between grounds to a safe value. If enough current is drawn in the Vbus/Gnd loop, the iDefender will switch transparently into "bypass" to allow the downstream device to draw power.

 

Further, even in 'break ground connection' mode, the circuit is still capable of passing the static DC voltages referred to Gnd on the Data pins and on VBUS that are needed for handshake/speed negotiation/charging current negotiaton. 

 

This "pass DC" circuit is of very high impedance. Even a few 100uA will trigger it into bypass mode, where the ground & +B isolation is switched off and the iDefender acts as passthrough.

 

In most USB devices (actually all we know) that do not require USB power for internal operation the USB Vbus is connected via a protection resistor to a high impedance input for sensing Vbus. This circuit typically has extremely low DC current draw (1uA or less) so the iDefender will always isolate in these cases, as it will in cases where the attached USB device requires power and external power is supplied to the iDefender.

 

It is the various protection and "bypass" circuitry and the power switching that make the iDefender a fairly complex device, compared to simply curring a wire. It will also make sure the iDefender will not drop your DAC's connections in case when external DC is unplugged or the battery is empty. The latter may not sound like a big deal in a stationary hifi system but is important to our pro audio customers who use our products in studios during recording sessions or life events. Here a dropped recording session/DJ set/life music performance disturbed because of a 'loose wire' is absolutely unacceptable.

 

Hi gents. I know the answer to my question is somewhere in here but some of it is a little complicated for me. So just asking for my clarification

 

So is 'break ground connection' mode ALWAYS running? Is there ever a case where this mode is turned OFF?

 

Let's say I have a Dac that needs full 5V bus power at all times:

 

Q1) If I use iDefender3.0 and I don't use a 5v power supply with iDefender3.0, then is a full 5V passed through iDefender3.0 from the PC USB port? Is the ground connection still broken at all times

 

Q3) does iDefender3.0 need 5V external power (like iPower 5V) in order for the 'break ground connection' mode to work ? Or is it ALWAYS breaking the ground connection. Again in this example where the Dac needs a full 5V bus power at all times.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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I guess what I'm getting at is if I have a Dac that needs a full 5V power at all times and I don't power the iDefefender3.0 with an external power via it's microUSB port - my concern is the iDefender3.0 won't have power to actually do anything, i.e. it won't be breaking the ground connect and will just be 'pass through' and not really doing anything.

 

That's obviously not what I want - I want the ground connection to be broken at ALL times for all cases/scenarios, even when no external power is supplied to the iDefender3.0

 

Appreciate the clarification

 

 

 

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On 9.04.2017 at 11:00 PM, Em2016 said:

 

Let's say I have a Dac that needs full 5V bus power at all times:

 

If I use iDefender3.0 and I don't use a 5v power supply with iDefender3.0, then is a full 5V passed through iDefender3.0 from the PC USB port? Is the ground connection still broken at all times.

 

 

No, if the DAC draws USB power and there is no external 5V supply to the iDefender, it must switch into bypass mode, or the DAC would receive no current and would not work. So iDefender transparently prioritises the actual operation of the audio device over breaking the ground.

 

It can break the ground connection in the following conditions:

  1. iDefender without 5V Supply and DAC that does not make use of USB bus power (ths DAC is technically speaking not USB standard compliant).
  2. iDefender without 5V supply and DAC that uses USB bus power for handshake only (USB standard compliant DAC - e.g. iDSD micro in battery power mode).
  3. iDefender with 5V supply and DAC that is powered for operation via USB bus power (e.g. iFi iDAC 2 micro).

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On 9.04.2017 at 11:20 PM, Em2016 said:

I guess what I'm getting at is if I have a Dac that needs a full 5V power at all times and I don't power the iDefefender3.0 with an external power via it's microUSB port - my concern is the iDefender3.0 won't have power to actually do anything, i.e. it won't be breaking the ground connect and will just be 'pass through' and not really doing anything.

 

That's obviously not what I want - I want the ground connection to be broken at ALL times for all cases/scenarios, even when no external power is supplied to the iDefender3.0

 

Appreciate the clarification

 

 

 

 

This is physically not possible with a simple/inexpensive device like the iDefender, as it can't generate power by itself.

 

The iDefender can only select between External Power (ground disconnected), No power - handshake only (ground disconnected) and USB power (ground must be connected to allow current to flow.

 

For your requirements you need to purchase a full USB isolator that primarily actively isolates USB power (and this usually means also isolating the data path), such as our upcoming iGalvanic3.0.

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  • 3 weeks later...
11 hours ago, ktm777 said:

iDefender in conjunction with iUBS 3.0 nano will come closer to iUSB 3.0 micro?

 

iUSB micro is the best one we have, soooo....

 

On a side note, anyone suspects what this critter might be all about?

 

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5v dc powered iDefender3.0 + Nano iUSB3.0 combo is sounding fantastic.  

iSilencer3.0 and iPurifier2, separating subnets on controlPC are icing on the already yummy cake.

WS2019 Core Datacenter, dualPC, JPLAY Femto, AO3, Fidelizer Pro 8.8, MC2XY, IOS app.

 

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Quote

 
 
iFi USB Options without Galvanic Isolation (but with iSOGround ground loop breaker)
 

  1. Ultimate Performance - iUSB 3.0 micro
  2. Very High Performance - iUSB 3.0 nano with iDefender (no extra iPower needed)
  3. High Value - iPurifier 2.0 with iDefender and iPower
  4. Historical Value Upgrade - original iUSB Power (discontinued) with iPurifier 2.0

Do I - or do I not -  need to power-up iDefender when using it with iUSB 3.0 nano and USB Powered DAC?

Quote

But for DAC's that use USB Power a separate power connection is provided to feed in a 5V DC Supply - this is needed to break the ground connection, as long as the DAC tries to draw USB power from the Source instead the ground cannot be isolated.

Sorry iFi, but I'm a little bit confused?

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23 hours ago, ktm777 said:

Do I - or do I not -  need to power-up iDefender when using it with iUSB 3.0 nano and USB Powered DAC?

Sorry iFi, but I'm a little bit confused?

 

There's no need, , but iDefender must be placed between Host PC/Mac and iUSB 3.0 nano.

 

 

23 hours ago, ktm777 said:

But for DAC's that use USB Power a separate power connection is provided to feed in a 5V DC Supply - this is needed to break the ground connection, as long as the DAC tries to draw USB power from the Source instead the ground cannot be isolated.

 

The iUSB 3.0 nano on the upstream "B" port draws no power, it is 100% internally powered. So in this case there is no need to power the iDefender.

Our PowerStation is here: click me!

 

Check out our Tidal MQA Set-up Guides below. 
Android (Renderer) Mobile
Desktop (Decoder) via USB
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On 11/1/2016 at 10:43 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Not exactly like that, because if it was done - again the handshake between DAC and PC would not be possible. It takes avert specific and special trick to achieve breaking ground loops, but not at the same time create problems. That "trick" how to do it is our little secret, I hope you can understand.

 

Please just get an iDefender from one of our partners that allow no quibble returns and try it.

 

if you lift the usb ground then the usb will not work properly.

does idefender cut the usb ground?

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  • 1 month later...

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