UltraCap™ LPS-1 Operation and Pre-purchase thread

[mrvco]

No early birthday present for me... my LPS-1 has been sitting at the post office since last night and I'm headed out of town tomorrow morning for a few days. Oh well, plenty of time off next week to enjoy!

[Superdad]

I take it the same would apply to Regen/DAC?

 

Yes, very much so. Though see my comment above about the low current draw of the microRendu. Applies even more so to a REGEN that does not have to power a DAC. While a microRendu that is not powering a DAC, etc. draws less than 0.2A, draw of a REGEN (just powering its hub chip and clock) is only about 0.06A.

Both leave plenty of LPS-1 current capability for a DAC or such.

 

And a REGEN that is not called upon to provide VBUS power can itself run fine from 5V. So in that instance one could put a 'Y' cable on an LPS-1 and provide 5V to something else as well. I don't recall if the microRendu (without being called upon for VBUS power) can run from 5V. John would of course know--or I'll try it when I have a chance.

[R1200CL]

I don't recall if the microRendu (without being called upon for VBUS power) can run from 5V. John would of course know--or I'll try it when I have a chance.

 

No it can't. I think that is quite clear here :

http://docs.sonore.us/microrendu/

6-9 V

 

If not, that web page should to be updated !

[Superdad]

No it can't. I think that is quite clear here :

SONORE microRendu Manual

6-9 V

 

If not, that web page should to be updated !

 

You need to understand that as manufacturers, we mark our products for the recommended input voltage range that will work with all circumstances.

 

As I clearly said, and same as with the REGEN, 5V is acceptable ONLY if the attached DAC does not draw ANY VBUS power. So the REGEN is marked for 6-8V, 9V is fine, and there is a whole FAQ on our website that explains how, why, and when it is okay to operate it with 5V or 12V.

 

Now I will not speak for John or Sonore with regards to technically acceptable operating voltage range, but prompted by your post I set my LPS-1 to 5V and connected the MicroRendu. It seems happy--even running into my non-VBUS-using DAC.

 

I can tell you that external power supply issues, questions, and debate are the sorts of thing that drive manufacturers crazy (I have had several tell me so). Of course now I am in the PS business, so it can not be avoided.

[austinpop]

You need to understand that as manufacturers, we mark our products for the recommended input voltage range that will work with all circumstances.

 

As I clearly said, and same as with the REGEN, 5V is acceptable ONLY if the attached DAC does not draw ANY VBUS power. So the REGEN is marked for 6-8V, 9V is fine, and there is a whole FAQ on our website that explains how, why, and when it is okay to operate it with 5V or 12V.

 

Now I will not speak for John or Sonore with regards to technically acceptable operating voltage range, but prompted by your post I set my LPS-1 to 5V and connected the MicroRendu. It seems happy--even running into my non-VBUS-using DAC.

 

I can tell you that external power supply issues, questions, and debate are the sorts of thing that drive manufacturers crazy (I have had several tell me so). Of course now I am in the PS business, so it can not be avoided.

 

Alex,

 

I just unpacked my shiny new LPS-1, which arrived today. I posted this over on the Overall Isolation thread too, but I'll ask it here.

 

My intent all along was to power my W4S RUR (per specs: takes 6-9V) with the LPS-1 set to 7V. My DAC, the Ayre Codex has an AC power input, but surprisingly also expects USB 5V Vbus power. I think it uses the AC input for its headphone amp section.

 

Anyway, the question is: if I try to share the LPS-1 to power both the RUR with a Vbus2 isolator on the output, and as a USB power injector to my DAC, then it seems I have 2 choices:

• set the LPS-1 to 7V, and check if the Codex can tolerate 7V on the USB Vbus; OR
  
• set the LPS-1 to 5V, and check it the RUR will operate at 5V, especially if it's not powering the DAC due to the Vbus2 isolator.
  

 

Frankly both options make me a bit nervous!

 

For now I will just try the RUR powered by LPS-1 feeding the DAC, and see. I need to order a Y-cable, to try the above, if I dare.

[Superdad]

My intent all along was to power my W4S RUR (per specs: takes 6-9V) with the LPS-1 set to 7V. My DAC, the Ayre Codex has an AC power input, but surprisingly also expects USB 5V Vbus power. I think it uses the AC input for its headphone amp section.

 

Anyway, the question is: if I try to share the LPS-1 to power both the RUR with a Vbus2 isolator on the output, and as a USB power injector to my DAC, then it seems I have 2 choices:

• set the LPS-1 to 7V, and check if the Codex can tolerate 7V on the USB Vbus; OR
  
• set the LPS-1 to 5V, and check it the RUR will operate at 5V, especially if it's not powering the DAC due to the Vbus2 isolator.
  

 

Frankly both options make me a bit nervous!

 

For now I will just try the RUR powered by LPS-1 feeding the DAC, and see. I need to order a Y-cable, to try the above, if I dare.

 

There is not a good reason for you to attempt either of the above! (and you stand a chance of ruining something)

While the W4S Recovery's 5VBUS output regs are not as clean as the expensive TI TPS7A4700 we use in both the REGEN and the LPS-1, you will be worse off by adding cables connectors, etc, to the USB data chain.

 

I think some of you are putting too much emphasis on the 5VBUS when isolation of other forms and preservation of data signal integrity and impedance match are much more important.

 

--Alex C.

[JohnSwenson]

 

Now I will not speak for John or Sonore with regards to technically acceptable operating voltage range, but prompted by your post I set my LPS-1 to 5V and connected the MicroRendu. It seems happy--even running into my non-VBUS-using DAC.

 

The microRendu has a 5V regulator that drives several other lower voltage regulators. If you feed 5V in, that regulator will be out of regulation outputting somewhat less than 5V to the other regulators. This will work, but you are giving up on the regulation of that first regulator which is part of the power supply isolation scheme in the microRendu. So while it will actually work, it is not recommended.

 

John S.

[JohnSwenson]

I take it the same would apply to Regen/DAC?

 

Things get a little trickier with a REGEN. A microRendu powered by an LPS-1 has no leakage current to pass down the USB cable, there is none from the PS and the Ethernet connection blocks the leakage current from the digital side of things.

 

A REGEN does NOT completely block the leakage current from the computer, so with an LPS-1 powering a REGEN you still can have a leakage loop from the computer PS. You block a leakage loop going through the power supply of the REGEN, but the loop from the computer through the USB cable is still there.

 

Powering the REGEN with an LPS-1 is still going to sound better than powering the REGEN from the MeanWell, but exactly how to arrange things may be different once you include the loop through the computer.

 

John S.

[pl_svn]

and... what if one is using a no 5v wire USB cable?

[ElviaCaprice]

Things get a little trickier with a REGEN. A microRendu powered by an LPS-1 has no leakage current to pass down the USB cable, there is none from the PS and the Ethernet connection blocks the leakage current from the digital side of things.

 

A REGEN does NOT completely block the leakage current from the computer, so with an LPS-1 powering a REGEN you still can have a leakage loop from the computer PS. You block a leakage loop going through the power supply of the REGEN, but the loop from the computer through the USB cable is still there.

 

Powering the REGEN with an LPS-1 is still going to sound better than powering the REGEN from the MeanWell, but exactly how to arrange things may be different once you include the loop through the computer.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John,

I have two LPS-1's on the way. Plan on running it as such. The Intona No 5Vbus should solve any problem from the PC.

 

CAPS (HDPlex 100 LPS) w/ PPA V2 USB card (LPS-1 5V) => USB adapter => Intona => Supra No 5Vbus => LPS-1(a) 7V Regen=> USB adapter (No 5Vbus)=> LPS-1(b) 7V Chord Hugo (bypass the lipo batteries DIY) =>RCA Nordost White Lightning=> Amps.

 

As you can see I am going to power both the Regen and Hugo with one LPS-1, 7V. Will be ample power. Already verified the 7V (1.8 watts)= .26A will work with Hugo from Chord. The only other concern I now have is the RCA interconnects from Hugo to Amps and any possible leakage/ground loop. Plan on adding a Topaz 1KVA 120V.

[str-1]

Adding a Sbooster Vbus2 Isolator after a LPS-1 driven microRendu will add absolutely nothing. Could possibly decrease SQ by increasing USB transmission impedance between mR and dac.

Just briefly, as it goes a little off topic, Chord DAVE and Mojo don't work with Sbooster Isolator as both dacs use VBUS to detect that there is a USB device connected. No problem as I'm still adjusting to the substantial hike in SQ I'm getting from the uRendu/Sonore USB hard adapter/LPS-1 combination.

[ElviaCaprice]

Just briefly, as it goes a little off topic, Chord DAVE and Mojo don't work with Sbooster Isolator as both dacs use VBUS to detect that there is a USB device connected. No problem as I'm still adjusting to the substantial hike in SQ I'm getting from the uRendu/Sonore USB hard adapter/LPS-1 combination.

 

The DAVE has built in galvanic isolation so it needs the 5Vbus, not a big concern but preferable if it didn't need it and could be eliminated. The Mojo doesn't have galvanic isolation but needs to be flashed with the 5Vbus similar to the newer Hugos. A power saving feature by Chord (to save on batteries for mobility) but a detriment to SQ we are finding. A clean 5Vbus from an LPS-1 helps. Thankfully my older Hugo doesn't require this 5Vbus flash for the HD USB input.

[Confused]

I thought I would share my buying experience from the perspective of a UK customer. I have to admit I was a little worried about how I would get on ordering an LPS-1 for delivery to the UK, with the potential for customs issues etc. So in case anyone else is interested, this is how I got on. I ordered the LPS-1 as part of the 'November 18th' batch, to be honest, I was just hoping I would get it in time for the Christmas break, allowing for time through customs. As things worked out, I received my first UPS tracking notice on November 16th, so it was sent a little early, by the 21st, UPS tracking was showing 'held in customs' in Coventry in the UK. On the 24th I received a payment request from UK Parcelforce, a very modest £28.47, I paid this on the 25th, and today (28th) it was delivered to my door. Pretty slick and hassle free I would say! No to see how it sounds powering my microRendu, but that's for another thread.

[ElviaCaprice]

Thanks John,

I have two LPS-1's on the way. Plan on running it as such. The Intona No 5Vbus should solve any problem from the PC.

 

CAPS (HDPlex 100 LPS) w/ PPA V2 USB card (LPS-1 5V) => USB adapter => Intona => Supra No 5Vbus => LPS-1(a) 7V Regen=> USB adapter (No 5Vbus)=> LPS-1(b) 7V Chord Hugo (bypass the lipo batteries DIY) =>RCA Nordost White Lightning=> Amps.

 

As you can see I am going to power both the Regen and Hugo with one LPS-1, 7V. Will be ample power. Already verified the 7V (1.8 watts)= .26A will work with Hugo from Chord. The only other concern I now have is the RCA interconnects from Hugo to Amps and any possible leakage/ground loop. Plan on adding a Topaz 1KVA 120V.

 

 

Arrgggghh, the LPS-1 does not have enough output to power my Chord Hugo. Was a pain to pull out the LIPO batteries and make the attempt. All I could get is the LPS-1 to give me warning that the device was asking for more power. Installed my batteries back (what a pain), no problems. I will have to try again to get better information from Chord.

[jaapdeventer]

As things worked out, I received my first UPS tracking notice on November 16th, so it was sent a little early, by the 21st, UPS tracking was showing 'held in customs' in Coventry in the UK. On the 24th I received a payment request from UK Parcelforce, a very modest £28.47, I paid this on the 25th, and today (28th) it was delivered to my door.

 

Thanks for sharing this information. Let's see if my order from the December 9th batch will be delivered in The Netherlands before Christmas [emoji7]

[Superdad]

Thanks for sharing this information. Let's see if my order from the December 9th batch will be delivered in The Netherlands before Christmas [emoji7]

 

I just tracked a few shipments to Netherlands from early- to mid-November, and they all got delivered in about 10 days (some faster). So even with holiday slowdown due to parcel volume, I am confident your will have yours in your hands well before Christmas.

[lmitche]

There has been a lot of discussion about using Y cables to power multiple devices from the LPS-1 output. What about the input side? In other words, if I have two LPS-1s, can I power them from a single power supply with a Y cable? What is the minimum size supply that can handle two?

[JohnSwenson]

There has been a lot of discussion about using Y cables to power multiple devices from the LPS-1 output. What about the input side? In other words, if I have two LPS-1s, can I power them from a single power supply with a Y cable? What is the minimum size supply that can handle two?

 

Yes you can power two LPS-1 from the same power supply. Take the max current draw of one LPS-1 at whatever voltage your feed supply outputs and multiply by two. Your feed supply has to be able to support that.

 

Remember that at the lower voltage end of the scale that is going to be a LOT of current. You will need to make SURE that your Y cable is made from low resistance wire (ie 18 AWG wire may not be good enough).

 

The two LPS-1 outputs are still fully isolated from each other.

 

John S.

[Confused]

I have had my LPS-1 for a couple of weeks now, I shall be posting my listening observations in the appropriate thread, but suffice to say here, an improvement in sound quality beyond my expectations, so all good!

 

I am using the LPS-1 to power a microRendu, which is then connected to a Mutec MC3+USB. This is significant as the Mutec does draw current to power it's USB input, and thus isolate the USB for the Mutec itself. There was some debate a while back as to if the LPS-1 could satisfactorily power both the mR and the Mutec's USB due to the 'theoretical' combined current draw. All I can say is that the combination operates perfectly, proof of concept, it works.

 

I do have some practical observations. With the 9V ifi powering the mR+Mutec, the mR used to get staggeringly hot, not good. So I needed to provide some additional cooling for the mR for this set-up to work satisfactorily. With the 7V LPS-1 powering the mR+Mutec, the mR has a nice gently warmth to the touch, no additional cooling needed, a much better result.

 

However, powering the mR + Mutec's USB the LPS-1 itself does get hot. Too hot? No, I would not say so, you can hold your hand on the case for an extended period without burning, It just maybe feels like your hand would slowly cook and tenderise if you left it there for a few hours, so hot enough, but I have had kit in the past that has run a lot hotter, so nothing to be concerned about I think. This raises a question. If I know I will not be using my system for a week or so, I can turn off the Mutec, leaving the LPS-1 powering the mR 24/7. With the Mutec turned off, both the LPS-1 and mR are just slightly warm, no issues at all. So here is my question, lets say I knew I would be away from my system, say for one week. Would I be better off leaving the mR/Mutec/LPS-1 powered up, with the LPS-1 permanently in it's quite hot state, or would the recommendation be to turn off the Mutec, allowing the LPS-1 to revert to the slightly warm state. Any recommendations?

[lmitche]

You could use a Y power cable from the LPS1 to both the microRendu and a usb power injector (or REGEN) into the mutec.

 

This takes the microRendu regulator out of the current flow for the DAC and should lower the temperature. I did the same thing here with another device and it has worked well lowering heat and improving sound quality.

[JohnSwenson]

I have had my LPS-1 for a couple of weeks now, I shall be posting my listening observations in the appropriate thread, but suffice to say here, an improvement in sound quality beyond my expectations, so all good!

 

I am using the LPS-1 to power a microRendu, which is then connected to a Mutec MC3+USB. This is significant as the Mutec does draw current to power it's USB input, and thus isolate the USB for the Mutec itself. There was some debate a while back as to if the LPS-1 could satisfactorily power both the mR and the Mutec's USB due to the 'theoretical' combined current draw. All I can say is that the combination operates perfectly, proof of concept, it works.

 

I do have some practical observations. With the 9V ifi powering the mR+Mutec, the mR used to get staggeringly hot, not good. So I needed to provide some additional cooling for the mR for this set-up to work satisfactorily. With the 7V LPS-1 powering the mR+Mutec, the mR has a nice gently warmth to the touch, no additional cooling needed, a much better result.

 

However, powering the mR + Mutec's USB the LPS-1 itself does get hot. Too hot? No, I would not say so, you can hold your hand on the case for an extended period without burning, It just maybe feels like your hand would slowly cook and tenderise if you left it there for a few hours, so hot enough, but I have had kit in the past that has run a lot hotter, so nothing to be concerned about I think. This raises a question. If I know I will not be using my system for a week or so, I can turn off the Mutec, leaving the LPS-1 powering the mR 24/7. With the Mutec turned off, both the LPS-1 and mR are just slightly warm, no issues at all. So here is my question, lets say I knew I would be away from my system, say for one week. Would I be better off leaving the mR/Mutec/LPS-1 powered up, with the LPS-1 permanently in it's quite hot state, or would the recommendation be to turn off the Mutec, allowing the LPS-1 to revert to the slightly warm state. Any recommendations?

 

In your configuration I think the oscillator in the Mutec is the master clock, so I would just leave everything on all the time to make sure the master clock stays stable.

 

John S.

[Confused]

In your configuration I think the oscillator in the Mutec is the master clock, so I would just leave everything on all the time to make sure the master clock stays stable.

 

John S.

Yes, correct, the Mutec is effectively the master clock in my system, so this looks like good advice to me. If I am honest, I was a bit worried about the temperature of the LPS-1, but thinking about this I confess to being a little irrational here and missing what is important and what is not. I have certainly owned kit that has run a LOT hotter than this, and been totally reliable. I presume the design rated temperature of something like the LPS-1 is substantially higher than a temperature of something you could hold your hand on permanently without burning?

 

The good news is that leaving the Mutec & mR on permanently should provide yet another hike in SQ! Previously, I was NOT happy leaving the Mutec/mR powered up 24/7 with 9V ifi power, in this set up the mR was hot enough to burn your fingers when providing current to the Mutec, so another plus point for the 7V LPS-1 with the mR.

[jaapdeventer]

I just tracked a few shipments to Netherlands from early- to mid-November, and they all got delivered in about 10 days (some faster). So even with holiday slowdown due to parcel volume, I am confident your will have yours in your hands well before Christmas.

LPS-1 is delivered today at my door (The Netherlands). 12 days since shipping. Not bad for the December 9th batch [emoji2].

Thanks!

[R1200CL]

Sonore's Black Friday sale, was delivered on Monday before noon in a small town in Norway. 68 hours. (DHL). [emoji3]

[earnmyturns]

Just looking at the LPS-1 next to the microRendu it powers, and it occurred to me that it would be nice to find a small ventilated enclosure with two shelves where I could tidy up the two devices. Anyone knows where to find anything like that. Searching for "small equipment rack" brings up only computer or big AV component-sized racks.