UltraCap™ LPS-1 LISTENING IMPRESSIONS thread

[Trabb]

LPS-1 is a superb power supply and I use it with SOtM SMS-200.

I use Maenwell to power LPS-1.

Hope now it's clear.

 

As I wrote before, I can easilly imagine someone finding a recent revelation when using IFI iPower with LPS-1. I just found other aspects in my system setup suffering from it. For sure our setups are different. Our personal preferences can be different too..   

[Elberoth]

5 hours ago, Trabb said:

I replaced IFI 9V/2A powering my LPS-1 with a stock meanwell.

 

IFI in fact is a kind of filter and I dare to say a strong one.

 

IFI definitely creates the 3D dimension WOW effect, and blacker background. And is not expensive too.

 

But.

I find vocals more-less similar in texture and overall presentation is less airy.

Combination of both, in my setup, effected in more fatiguing, analytical presentation that was hard to change down the chain and kept me thinking of what to do as a next step. 

I had this feeling I always miss some small parts of music content.

 

I would continue my research for a different, this time linear power supply for my LPS-1. One is yet on my way.

 

And yeah, one more thing. LPS-1 I use for powering SMS-200.

 

Just share my observations.

 

That is interesting. I have measured the AC noise generated by various SMPS and linear PSUs (Meanwell, iFi, Teddy Pardo, UpTone JS-2 - full post HERE) and certainly iFi iPower kicked over 4x less noise back into the AC line than the Meanwell:

 

 

Those SMPS are very complicated devices though. They have filters built in on their side facing AC line (to conform with EMI regulations) - you can see that simply connecting some of those SMPS to the AC line made the EMI drop. For example: connecting iFi iPower SMPS (with no load connected to it) made the noise on the AC line drop from 23mV to 15mV - the biggest drop in the test group. 

 

I can only guess that those filters can affect other components connected to the same AC line - in a good or bad way.  

 

I would be interested to read your impressions when you get your linear PSU. From all PSUs tested, linear ones injected the least amount of noise back to the AC line.

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, Elberoth said:

 

That is interesting. I have measured the AC noise generated by various SMPS and linear PSUs (Meanwell, iFi, Teddy Pardo, UpTone JS-2 - full post HERE) and certainly iFi iPower kicked over 4x less noise back into the AC line than the Meanwell:

 

 

 

Hi Adam:

 

I read your report a week ago, but have been too busy to comment.  While your effort is interesting, I caution against drawing much conclusion from it.  Here is why I say that:

 

1) Your $130 meter is distilling all the noise it measures (with unknown weighting across the band) down to one number, and as such is not an entirely useful result for qualitative comparison. For example: a supply with a bunch of of large nasty spikes at the lower harmonics of its switching frequency (typically 80KHz-100KHz) might read out on your meter a lower number than an SMPS which spreads most of its noise across a very broad band ("spread spectrum") at much higher frequencies--in the MegaHertz range and at lower levels. Thus, the unit with a higher reading on your summing meter might well be the more "line benign" back to the wall.

 

2) Your meter "measures" noise beginning at 10KHz and is therefore inappropriate for comparing the harmonics kinked back into the mains by linear power supplies.  The harmonics from LPS units will always be at multiple of the line frequency (50 or 60Hz), and your meter will miss most of those.  The diode switching (especially from cheap LPS units) and transformer ringing (on units that don't use an RC snubber on the secondary) will result in quite a bit of harmonics back to the wall. [As an aside, the filtering effect of the inductance and capacitance of AC cables--of what a component's PS kicks back in harmonics--is the primary reason people hear differences between AC cords; assuming decent wire gauge for current draw, it is not at all about the "quality" of the power delivered TO the component.]

Traditional LPS units (transformer>diodes>caps>regulator) draw current over only about 50% of the AC wave cycle--hence their harmonic distortion of the mains, even if relatively benign.  That effect is part of what has driven the decades long push for "power factor corrected" power supplies worldwide (most easily accomplished with SMPS designs.  While one rarely sees a power factor corrected linear power supply, our own JS-2 is an example of one.  Its large DC choke results both in a smooth half-cycle wave delivered to the regulators (making their job easy), and in a power-factor of about 0.97--as it draws current over the entire AC wave cycle, thus not generating harmonics back into the line.

 

If you really wish to measure what various supplies kick back into the wall, then a more elaborate scope or spectrum analyzer should be used.  But what I expect you will find is that what is coming out of your wall in the first place (the spectrum of that residual 23mV you started with) is far nastier (i.e. at undesirable frequencies) than what is being added by the SMPS units you are testing.

 

None of the above in any way is meant to minimize the problems or differences in:

a) the quality of the DC output from various SMPS and LPS units;

b) the inherent "evil" of ALL SMPS units--very high leakage currents (due to their required use of Y-capacitors) (AC>DC linear supplies also have leakage, and while it is MUCH lower, it still will form "loop" with leakage from other connected components.)

 

Of course, the whole point of the UltraCap LPS-1 is to render both a) and b) above irrelevant! 

 

Adam, please do not take this post as any indictment or dismissal of your fine efforts to shed light on the subject of what SMPS units put back into the mains.  This is just my attempt to show how the matter is more complicated than it might seem (and wait until John corrects me and tells of even more complex factors!).

 

By the way, short of having a 100X scope probe and needing to do other things to safely look at noise on wall voltages with a O-scope, I did find this neat (if somewhat pricey at $389) adapter that plugs into the wall (there is a version with leads too) and provides a BNC to go directly to a scope or other analyzer. http://www.onfilter.com/products.html?s=MSN01

 

Best,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. We should probably take any continued conversation on this topic back to your thread.  I cross-posted the above there for continuity.

 

 

[jaaptina]

Feel the need to post the great guitar music I'm listening to ?

[Cool3r King]

Is there anything in the thought of the LPS needing to be powered up for a couple of days to 'come on song'? The reason I ask is that after powering it down to install the 2.5 upgrade in my mR, the sound became thin and/or uninteresting upon power on. Now after being on for 24 hours or more, it seems back to its usual self? Is this just me, or has anyone else had something similar? I think I'm suffering from paranoia or something...?

[R1200CL]

......maybe you also powered off the rest of your system as well ? ?

[Cool3r King]

If that were true, then maybe...unfortunately not. I've been listening all night and it seems back to normal. I've re-read some of these past posts and someone did mention that it got better after a couple of days, so maybe that's it... or maybe it's just me, that's what my wife says most of the time! ?

[Middy]

Unless people take professional hearing tests or expensive scopes on the kit everytime you go to listen to your kit..how can you know... Your nasal passages change through the day. The time you listen to your kit with the local power grid. 

Just happy the LPS1 made it better and keeps it there..?

[douglasfrost]

Hi all,

 

I have emailed Alex regarding my question, but given his other priorities at the moment, thought I would ask here.

 

I'm looking to upgrade my 2010 mac mini with the MMK dc kit and add the Iso Regen between the mac mini and my PSAudio Nuwave DSD dac. I'm also considering the HDPlex 200 to power them (sadly my budget won't stretch to a JS-2 at the moment). 

 

I'm thinking of a few options:

1. power the MMK with a smps and power the Iso Regen with an Ultracap LPS-1

2. power both the MMK and Iso Regen with a HDPlex 200

3. power both the MMK and Ultracap LPS-1/Iso Regen with a HDPlex 200

(with 2 and 3, I can then also power my fw800 connected hdd with the HDPlex 200)

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Douglas

[Superdad]

20 hours ago, douglasfrost said:

Hi all,

 

I have emailed Alex regarding my question, but given his other priorities at the moment, thought I would ask here.

 

I'm looking to upgrade my 2010 mac mini with the MMK dc kit and add the Iso Regen between the mac mini and my PSAudio Nuwave DSD dac. I'm also considering the HDPlex 200 to power them (sadly my budget won't stretch to a JS-2 at the moment). 

 

I'm thinking of a few options:

1. power the MMK with a smps and power the Iso Regen with an Ultracap LPS-1

2. power both the MMK and Iso Regen with a HDPlex 200

3. power both the MMK and Ultracap LPS-1/Iso Regen with a HDPlex 200

(with 2 and 3, I can then also power my fw800 connected hdd with the HDPlex 200)

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Douglas

 

Hi Douglas:

 

Saw your e-mail earlier in the week (could have been from last week, they pile up fast!), but e-mails for advice for configurations don't get replies near as quick as service or order logistics changes this month.

 

Your option #1 above has you buying more goodies from us, and will certainly sound good (you will still get the benefit of smooth, variable DC to the mini's fan even if the external power source is another SMPS--maybe a 90W Mean Well).

 

Option 2 will be okay too, and while the galvanic isolation provided by the ISO REGEN will still be in effect, having the ISO REGEN powered by the same AC-connected PS as the computer will join the HDPlex's leakage current over to the downstream side of the ISO REGEN, forming a loop with your DAC.  Whether this will have an audible impact is hard to say.

 

There is not much point to option 3 in my opinion.  As written extensively elsewhere, the LPS-1 blocks the path of SMPS leakage currents (their greatest evil), and the quality of the DC that "energizes"/charges the LPS-1 is of no consequence.  (The small residual, spread spectrum noise that our supplied MW SMPS charger kicks back to the wall is swamped by the rest of your AC mains noise and you likely have other power devices for your other components taking care of such.)

 

You may want to consider replacing your 2010 Core 2 Duo Mac mini with a 2011/'12/'14 model with i5 or i7.  Apple made a lot of changes with the newer units (besides just the processor and ports), and in my controlled direct comparisons (each booting from the same SD card), even with the Apple built-in SMPS, the 2011 and 2012 models sounded markedly better.  Enough so that I was going to start this reply with the suggestion that you get a new mini and for budget stay with its stock supply--and go for the the ISO REGEN/LPS-1 bundle combo. That might actually be the best SQ for your buck--at least in the Mac realm.  (There are of course many other directions you could take, including a Sonore microRendu or such.)

 

And if you end up with a spare mini, then the thing to do with the 2010 would be to keep your firewire drives on it, and connect the 2 machines directly via a BlueJeans/Belden Cat6A Ethernet cable (to keep your network connection, use an Apple Thunderbolt>Ethernet dongle--but not for the Mac>Mac link, use the internal ports for that). See:

If you do that, then the power supply for those network shared hard drives really won't matter.  Removing directly attached storage from your DAC-connected-computer's interfaces is of great benefit.  See:

And for completeness:

Old reports, but pretty much everything in them still holds true.

 

Now you see why I put off answering certain e-mails.  I just don't know how to give half-answers--and to-the-best-of-my-knowledge answers often take a half-hour to write! 

[douglasfrost]

Wow, Alex!

 

Thank you for so much information - it's raining here this weekend, so perfect for listening to music and getting through the reading list you gave me! From the small amount that I've already read since I read your reply, I will have more questions, but I'll do all the recommended reading first and try to distill to the bare minimum ?

 

Thanks again.

 

Douglas

[douglasfrost]

Hi Alex,

 

After reading through the threads you suggested (and a few more that I found) and convincing  myself to spend a bit more, I’m thinking of getting the following:

 

Second hand 2011/2012 mac mini

MMK upgrade

Ultracap LPS-1/Iso rRegen.

 

I have a 3TB lacie 2big NAS drive that can be connected direct to the mac mini via Ethernet (and then do the thunderbolt-ethernet dongle to keep home network access to the mac mini). This way I can either sell the 2010 mac mini or repurpose it for one of my daughters. Is this equal to or better than your option to use the old mac mini as well?

 

I’m assuming that you still find putting the OS and apps on an sd card? If this is the case it means I can spend less on the mac mini and buy one with a standard hdd (which I can take out) rather than a ssd. I can also download a copy of El Capitan and slim it down.

 

I have a 2KVa isolation transformer that was feeding my Krell integrated, PSAudio dac and mac mini. Based on what I have read so far, I have now removed the mac mini and will probably remove the Krell. I’m assuming it is best to only have the dac fed by the isolation transformer?

 

Bearing in mind your previous comments about using smps units to power the MMK, would it still be preferable to power the MMK and the NAS drive from a linear psu or would this risk ground loop issues?

 

Happy for you to answer with yes/no answers – although I suspect this is not in your dna…

 

Best regards

 

Douglas

[Superdad]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

Hi Alex,

 

After reading through the threads you suggested (and a few more that I found) and convincing  myself to spend a bit more, I’m thinking of getting the following:

 

Second hand 2011/2012 mac mini

MMK upgrade

Ultracap LPS-1/Iso rRegen.

 

 

Sounds good. 

 

On 5/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

 

I have a 3TB lacie 2big NAS drive that can be connected direct to the mac mini via Ethernet (and then do the thunderbolt-ethernet dongle to keep home network access to the mac mini). This way I can either sell the 2010 mac mini or repurpose it for one of my daughters. Is this equal to or better than your option to use the old mac mini as well?

 

 

That should be just fine.  Certainly better than a Firewire or Thunderbolt connection.   Be sure to get a BlueJeans/Belden Cat6 or Cat6A cable to go from the NAS to the new(er) Mac mini.

 

On 5/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

I’m assuming that you still find putting the OS and apps on an sd card? If this is the case it means I can spend less on the mac mini and buy one with a standard hdd (which I can take out) rather than a ssd. I can also download a copy of El Capitan and slim it down.

 

 

I do, but I recommend you leave the internal spinning HD in the machine and just eject/dismount it after booting from the SD card.  It takes a while to get a smoothly running slim OS X on SD card, and if one fails then you want to be able to boot without having to reinstall your HD.  I partitioned my internal drive into about 4 partitions: One has a factory-stock OS install, one is for slimming experimentation, one is a clone of the working SD card image, and one is for testing newer OS versions (stay away from Sierra!). Actually there is a fifth partition--with Linux.

Anyway, once you eject/dismount all HD partitions, the SATA interface pretty much turns off, and that is the goal.

 

On 5/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

I have a 2KVa isolation transformer that was feeding my Krell integrated, PSAudio dac and mac mini. Based on what I have read so far, I have now removed the mac mini and will probably remove the Krell. I’m assuming it is best to only have the dac fed by the isolation transformer?

 

That is a more complicated question, for which the best guess answer would require a look at a diagram of your full system.  

 

On 5/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

Bearing in mind your previous comments about using smps units to power the MMK, would it still be preferable to power the MMK and the NAS drive from a linear psu or would this risk ground loop issues?

 

Remember, leakage loops are not the same thing as ground loops.  Look for John's writings on the subject.  

Some folks swear that an LPS on their NAS is critical.  I would likely avoid powering your DAC-connected computer and the NAS from the same PS.  Though with an ISO REGEN/LPS-1 combo on the other side, it might not matter much.

 

On 5/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

 

Happy for you to answer with yes/no answers – although I suspect this is not in your dna…

 

 

If only life and audio were simple enough for yes/no answers...

[Daudio]

On 5/20/2017 at 11:27 PM, douglasfrost said:

I’m thinking of getting the following:

 

Second hand 2011/2012 mac mini

MMK upgrade

Ultracap LPS-1/Iso rRegen.

Doug,

 

Sounds good, through you seem to have left out a LPSU for the Mini ?!?  You need a good 12vdc supply @ 4-6 amps to connect to the MMK input.

 

I got a used 2012 Mac Mini off eBay for about $225-250. I choose the most basic and common config for the fastest I5 CPU. The I7 CPU's will cost you upwards of $900. I didn't care about the RAM or HDD, since I replaced both.

 

An aftermarket SSD, and 16GB RAM kit were cheaper then getting a Mini so equipped, and since you have to open it up anyway for the MMK install, might as well swap in a SSD (amazingly fast boot up !), and max out the memory (because it always seems to help) in the process !

 

I think you will be very happy (ecstatic ?) with the result

 

 

P.S. I re-purposed my old 2010 Mini, bumped from server duty, to my everyday email/browser/etc. machine replacing a 2006 laptop. Works nice !

 

 

[Nicholas_S]

Felt that my system sounded superb and had likely achieved it's theoretical limit of performance... that was yesterday.

 

Today an ISORegen hopped out of the mailbox.

 

Boy, was I wrong.

 

Simply amazing coherence resulting in a clear improvement in every aspect of SQ.

 

Thank you Alex and John!

[thyname]

2 minutes ago, Nicholas_S said:

Felt that my system sounded superb and had likely achieved it's theoretical limit of performance... that was yesterday.

 

Today an ISORegen hopped out of the mailbox.

 

Boy, was I wrong.

 

Simply amazing coherence resulting in a clear improvement in every aspect of SQ.

 

Thank you Alex and John!

 

Nice! As far as I know, you are the first to receive it. Glad it helped your setup. Could you describe your set up?

[Nicholas_S]

22 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

Nice! As far as I know, you are the first to receive it. Glad it helped your setup. Could you describe your set up?

Sure... Roon Server feeding a microRendu through the ISORegen into a W4S DAC-2 DSDse.  Salk HTL-2 speakers driven by a DSonic amp rated at 1.2kW per channel through a W4S STP-SE stage 2 preamp.

The ISORegen replaced a W4S RUR that is excellent in its own right and will find a home in a secondary system.

[thyname]

Just now, Nicholas_S said:

Sure... Roon Server feeding a microRendu through the ISORegen into a W4S DAC-2 DSDse.  Salk HTL-2 speakers driven by a DSonic amp rated at 1.2kW per channel through a W4S STP-SE stage 2 preamp.

The ISORegen replaced a W4S RUR that is excellent in its own right and will find a home in a secondary system.

 

Great! I use Roon (on a Windows machine) and microRendu too (to Singxer SU-1, then DAC).

 

Assuming you put the ISO Regen between the mRendu and the DAC? 

[Nicholas_S]

Yes, that is correct... using Alex' new USB connector between the microRendu and ISORegen, then a shortie Curious Cable between the ISORegen and the DAC.

[thyname]

Just now, Nicholas_S said:

Yes, that is correct... using Alex' new USB connector between the microRendu and ISORegen, then a shortie Curious Cable between the ISORegen and the DAC.

Nice! Great to know beforehand that I will notice improvements once I receive my ISO (second batch here) in June. I know theoritically I would, but nice to hear actual experience from users.

 

Thanks!

[sdube]

Just wrote this to Alex: "Fedex delivered the ISO Regen. It is DOA, I am afraid. Doesn't work directly with supplied connector -- or a Curios USB link -- into Berkeley Alpha USB. There is a popping/crackling noise, and then the connection fails. On my desktop system, into another USB>SPDI/F converter, the connection came on with crackling, distorting nose for sometime, and then failed. The earlier Regens are working fine. The new connector makes a change for the better. But all this is kind of disappointing. What is to be done"

 

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, sdube said:

Just wrote this to Alex: "Fedex delivered the ISO Regen. It is DOA, I am afraid. Doesn't work directly with supplied connector -- or a Curios USB link -- into Berkeley Alpha USB. There is a popping/crackling noise, and then the connection fails. On my desktop system, into another USB>SPDI/F converter, the connection came on with crackling, distorting nose for sometime, and then failed. The earlier Regens are working fine. The new connector makes a change for the better. But all this is kind of disappointing. What is to be done"

 

 

Hi Saurabh:

 

Sounds like you got a bad one.  I think one or two slipped through Q.C.  I ordered a protocol analyzer for tighter production testing.  It, along with a cheap Windows laptop to run the analyzer s/w will be here this week.  

I received your e-mail and will get back to you right after lunch about exchanging your ISO REGEN.

 

Sorry for the trouble; and of course we stand 100% behind the product and will make it right for you quickly.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

 

 

[tboooe]

Delete...wrong thread.

[douglasfrost]

Thanks @Superdad and @Daudio

 

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

Be sure to get a BlueJeans/Belden Cat6 or Cat6A cable to go from the NAS to the new(er) Mac mini.

 

Will do.

 

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

I recommend you leave the internal spinning HD in the machine and just eject/dismount it after booting from the SD card.

Will do.

 

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

That is a more complicated question, for which the best guess answer would require a look at a diagram of your full system.

Will try using my ears...

 

6 hours ago, Superdad said:

Remember, leakage loops are not the same thing as ground loops.  Look for John's writings on the subject.  

Some folks swear that an LPS on their NAS is critical.  I would likely avoid powering your DAC-connected computer and the NAS from the same PS.  Though with an ISO REGEN/LPS-1 combo on the other side, it might not matter much.

Will read John's views and will try using my ears...

 

4 hours ago, Daudio said:

Sounds good, through you seem to have left out a LPSU for the Mini ?!?  You need a good 12vdc supply @ 4-6 amps to connect to the MMK input.

Haven't forgotten - thinking about hdplex200 (or similar) or saving up and getting a JS-2 further down the track.

4 hours ago, Daudio said:

I got a used 2012 Mac Mini off eBay for about $225-250. I choose the most basic and common config for the fastest I5 CPU. The I7 CPU's will cost you upwards of $900. I didn't care about the RAM or HDD, since I replaced both.

 

An aftermarket SSD, and 16GB RAM kit were cheaper then getting a Mini so equipped, and since you have to open it up anyway for the MMK install, might as well swap in a SSD (amazingly fast boot up !), and max out the memory (because it always seems to help) in the process !

 

I'm in Australia, and the second hand mac minis are a bit more expensive, but the difference from i5 to i7 isn't as great. I'll just follow the auctions and see how I go. Won't worry about ssd as I'm planning to run the OSX off an sdxc card as per @Superdad thread, but will definitely max out the ram.

 

5 hours ago, Daudio said:

P.S. I re-purposed my old 2010 Mini, bumped from server duty, to my everyday email/browser/etc. machine replacing a 2006 laptop. Works nice !

My macpro 2013 handles the day to day nicely (mainly used for lightroom and photoshop) but I may end up keeping the old 2010 mini as a separate music server to feed music to the various apple tvs scattered around the house.

[Narcissus]

Can someone please comment on, powering both An IR and a uR/SMS 200 using a Y-DC cable via the LPS-1 will / will not result in any kind of degradation of the SQ as opposed to both the units being powered discretely via LPS 1?