Why I think Roon is overpriced even though I've never tried it

[beerandmusic]

Perhaps you should find out the facts. Maybe he purchased it very very early or his purchase had nothing to do with that site and the 10% code.

 

I didnt say or infer firedog got it from that site. I asked firedog what he paid and he told me $350 with a coupon. I then googled roon coupon and saw the were giving out codes on other forums. Like i said, i may have made a mistake, not realizing they were giving out some coupons for different amounts....but the fact is the same that some people got coupons for $350.

[beerandmusic]

All this thread is is one man's boring rant against a product that doesn't fit his lifestyle.

 

on the contrary, i said i would like it...i just am not going to pay $500 when i know others have paid $350.

 

Whatever, i don't care, Chris can kill the thread.

People will pay what they want to pay. I am sorry so many people have an issue against me just because I, LIKE MANY OTHERS around many forums have complained about their pricing...and i think it is bogus that some can get for $350 and others have to pay $500...whatever Chris..kill the thread.

 

I have been mild in comparison to what i have read on other forums about people complaining.

[BobSherman]

on the contrary, i said i would like it...i just am not going to pay $500 when i know others have paid $350.

 

Whatever, i don't care, Chris can kill the thread.

People will pay what they want to pay. I am sorry so many people have an issue against me just because I, LIKE MANY OTHERS around many forums have complained about their pricing...and i think it is bogus that some can get for $350 and others have to pay $500...whatever Chris..kill the thread.

 

I have been mild in comparison to what i have read on other forums about people complaining.

Another pretty useless and stupid thread so thank you very much, maybe if you actually listen to music you wouldn't have time keep posting and respond to every single person in the thread. A couple questions which might be pertinent how big is your music library, you mentioned you seem to like only DSD files, or mainly DSD files so is your library verysmall? To go bit further do you really enjoy listening to music or is it just a hobby for sound quality? It's like people I remember back in the day who only played 10 albums over and over again, everyone knows the usual suspects, dark side of the moon a few direct to disc's etc.

 

Look your point is actually pretty pointless people pay what they want to pay you see no value in the software people who actually use it to its full extent like it a lot and truly understand the value. You are pretty much just bored and have nothing to do because after you play 10 DSD's you have no music to enjoy.

 

There's no way to discuss sound quality of software because that relates to the hardware used also and since you're not providing any reference point, the discussion is fruitless. I'm using Roon currently it is actually great! Large library enjoying music more than ever before. Sound quality is fine, done right it is very very good. Can I squeeze out a little more sound quality with my dual PC Jplay system, yes actually I think so but for the most part it doesn't really matter... if you are enjoying listening to music.

 

As far as up sampling to DSD I am not doing it all right now because I am happy with PCM and a Schiit DAC. Even though you think you understand this hobby, you have a hell of a lot to learn so maybe try wasting a little bit less time with this inane drivel and get some music and sit back and enjoy it.

[YashN]

That said, it remains to be seen whether anyone can better HQP's upsampling and filtering. Jussi's very focused on that and has been working on this stuff for a long time.

 

Or implement Jussi's SDM-processing algorithms. I doubt that the 'DSP' that is planned for Roon will include this.

[firedog]

OK, I just have to see where people are / we're getting Room for $350. Post links or it didn't happen.

 

They had a Christmas coupon last November I believe for "gift" subscriptions. It was on the Roon site. That's how I got it. I think it was about $350, don't remember exactly I think it was 30%off, which would be $350. It was definitely a substantial discount and over $100 off.

[duxservit]

ok so I missed the $350 deal for Roon. Can somebody point me to it?

[4est]

Bottom line is, i will never pay $500 when i know others have bought it for $350.

 

 

There we have the crux of the issue if I understand it. You were late to the party and a year later you are sore that you didn't get the

early adopter's price. Just get over it, and quit griping.

[amir57bs]

Roon price is five times over Audirvana but i prefer it because it sounds better by wide margin.

[beerandmusic]

^^^ to op asking about size of DSD library.

with Korg DAC and audiogate, you can upgrade your PCM library easily to 4xDSD. I have heard other offline batch methods as well...and many dacs do on the fly. PCM is dead imho, but to each their own if pcm is someone elses preference.

[beerandmusic]

There we have the crux of the issue if I understand it. You were late to the party and a year later you are sore that you didn't get the

early adopter's price. Just get over it, and quit griping.

I have already stated that (crux) many times. I don't need to get over it....maybe they will have another CHristmas special....fingers crossed...but as I also have stated, if they don't, i can live without it. I still can gripe about them wanting to license HQPlayers SQ capabilities also...i don't want to run 2 programs.

 

I am sorry so many people have an issue that I don't want to pay $500, especially when i know others have paid $350. $350 still seems excessive. I would rather have an audivarna+ for windows for $200 that rivals hqplayer in SQ...but as I also said, i would likely jump on the bandwagon if i could get ROON for $300. I am just not comfortable paying $500 especially when the SQ isn't as good as other players that are a small fraction of the price.

 

People complain that i keep repeating myself, but ALL i am doing is responding...if people quit responding to my gripes, there would be nothing for me to say....and to be honest, it is a LOT more tiring and frustrating for me to keep repeating myself....

 

I am ADD, and may be dysfunctional socially, and do not have the ability to communicate on other's level...but I am confident in my intellect, and as much as I hate debating and wish everybody thought the same way I do, I will continue to respond. So if you want me to shut up, then CHris can kill the thread or others can quit questioning my motives.

 

My quest is in the "BEST WINDOWS SOFTWARE" thread, and I think a program will be forthcoming whether it is a formulation of Miska and some other company, Audirvana+ for windows, a stripped down ROON, or something else. I may have to wait a year or two, but I believe it is on the horizon. There are other players i will just "live with" for now that don't quite meet my needs, but are a far cry from $500.

Resonic Pro said they will have native dsd soon also.

I have now heard that ROON is working on DSP improvements, and to be honest, i don't think they can survive with a $500 price tag for the long term....competition will eventually eat them up if they don't stay competitive.

 

But what the world really needs is HQPlayer with a better interface for $200 imho....

 

In my mind it can't hurt to hope and wait...i have been looking for over 2 years already, ever since my passion for DSD.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I have already stated that (crux) many times. I don't need to get over it....maybe they will have another CHristmas special....fingers crossed...but as I also have stated, if they don't i can live without it. I still can gripe about them wanting to license HQPlayers SQ capabilities also...i don't want to run 2 programs.

 

People complain that i keep repeating myself, but ALL i am doing is responding...if people quit responding to my gripes, there would be nothing for me to say.

Many adults can control themselves and don't blame their responses on others.

 

Something tells me that you wouldn't purchase Roon for $350 if the price was permanently lowered, because it wouldn't be on sale. I also don't believe you'd purchase it for $350 anyway. No biggie. I'm moving on.

[beerandmusic]

Something tells me that you wouldn't purchase Roon for $350 if the price was permanently lowered, because it wouldn't be on sale. I also don't believe you'd purchase it for $350 anyway. No biggie. I'm moving on.

 

I said i would pay $300 today...i may be tempted at $350...you have already stated you don't believe me so i am over that. It was hurtful when you said it, because i do not lie, but I am over it now. At first, I thought I wouldn't pay even $350, because it is subpar the SQ of others at a fraction of the price, but the more i thought about it, since it is lifetime, i am sure they will catch up eventually...

[4est]

 

People complain that i keep repeating myself, but ALL i am doing is responding...if people quit responding to my gripes, there would be nothing for me to say....and to be honest, it is a LOT more tiring and frustrating for me to keep repeating myself....

 

 

If this is the case, then neither of us have anything to say...

[beerandmusic]

If this is the case, then neither of us have anything to say...

 

Until the next person comes along or Chris kills the thread....

 

I actually hope he does.

[BobSherman]

Many adults can control themselves and don't blame their responses on others.

 

Something tells me that you wouldn't purchase Roon for $350 if the price was permanently lowered, because it wouldn't be on sale. I also don't believe you'd purchase it for $350 anyway. No biggie. I'm moving on.

+100

[BobSherman]

I said i would pay $300 today...i may be tempted at $350...you have already stated you don't believe me so i am over that. It was hurtful when you said it, because i do not lie, but I am over it now. At first, I thought I wouldn't pay even $350, because it is subpar the SQ of others at a fraction of the price, but the more i thought about it, since it is lifetime, i am sure they will catch up eventually...

BTW you keep saying the sound quality of Roon is not that good. Sorry you are wrong in my opinion and many others. Depends on one's system, what are you using to make these sonic assessments??? Read the review by Chris on the Yaggi DAC and the sound of PCM. So you are upsampling your files with Audiogate and you think they sound good???

[relaxwithjazz]

nvm

[beerandmusic]

BTW you keep saying the sound quality of Roon is not that good. ??

 

Sounds like you are stuck in the PCM camp.

 

I never used the phrase "not that good".

I said it pales in comparison to HQPlayer.

 

A better question is, have you tried HQplayer for "paid for Native DSD", or HQPlayer upsampled playing through a DSD DAC.

I have tried both, and there is not even a comparison.

 

There are a LOT of trustworthy names here, you don't need to trust me...argue with them or your own ears, and if you are still of the contention Roon sounds better without HQPlayer for upsampled HQP or native dsd, then people will understand where you are coming from.

 

If you can honestly say you have tried HQPlayer through a quality DSD dac recommended by Miska, and still prefer PCM through ROON without HQplayer, you will have a lot more people disagreeing with you than agreeing with you that have tried both....

[beerandmusic]

Until the next person comes along or Chris kills the thread....

 

I actually hope he does.

See what i mean.

 

Please Chris, kill the thread.

[BobSherman]

Sounds like you are stuck in the PCM camp.

 

I never used the phrase "not that good".

I said it pales in comparison to HQPlayer.

 

A better question is, have you tried HQplayer for "paid for Native DSD", or HQPlayer upsampled playing through a DSD DAC.

I have tried both, and there is not even a comparison.

 

There are a LOT of trustworthy names here, you don't need to trust me...argue with them or your own ears, and if you are still of the contention Roon sounds better without HQPlayer for upsampled HQP or native dsd, then people will understand where you are coming from.

 

If you can honestly say you have tried HQPlayer through a quality DSD dac recommended by Miska, and still prefer PCM through ROON without HQplayer, you will have a lot more people disagreeing with you than agreeing with you that have tried both....

I own and use HQP and have done all of what you have mentioned. There are positives and negatives to ever approach. I have DSD DACS also. I thought you do not own HQPlayer? What DAC are you using?

 

One of the main things I like about Roon is the way it allows one to enjoy listening to music. The linking it does within one's library. Playing some Bobby Timmons for example, they you can travel within your music and find different groups and other players to enjoy. Discover is a nice feature, as it the radio. Log into Tidal and go even further. If it does not sound good on your system, it is your system not the software.

[beerandmusic]

I own and use HQP and have done all of what you have mentioned. There are positives and negatives to ever approach. I have DSD DACS also. I thought you do not own HQPlayer? What DAC are you using?

I have had several PCM and DSD Dacs and currently using same as Miska (NT503). I won't debate as to Roons features, but i will contend HQPlayer sounds better for the material i listen to...but again I don't care to debate...if you think pcm/roon sounds better than dsd/hqp/roon, i believe you are a small minority to those that have tried both...What DAC do you use as your main dac?

[Astralark]

I paid lifetime membership. It is definitely the best audio GUI in the world and I can see the community is helpful so this product is developing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[BobSherman]

if you think pcm/roon sounds better than dsd/hqp/roon, i believe you are a small minority to those that have tried both...What DAC do you use as your main dac?

That is not what I said. Did not say PCM sounds better. Different not necessarily better. An Aune S16, and IFI IDSD and a Modi multibit. I can listen, and enjoy my system setup different ways.

 

I am currently using Roon on a Xeon server with ,AO - fiber network, with a PI A+ as an endpoint which is one core, 700mhz, single mode fiber-USB transceiver with a Digi+ pro spdif hat. Just as when using HQP best sound s by going the NAA route. Using Jplay, best to use dual systems. Just a PC with a standard OS does not cut it IMO.

[dannyroonlabs]

DISCLAIMER: I work for Roon Labs, and along with one of my partners (Enno), am in charge of pricing.

 

1) We did indeed do a 30% off sale for Black Friday last year if you bought gift codes. We had been in business for less than 6 months at the time, and were still learning about pricing, marketing, etc...

 

2) There have been some 10% off codes flying around for a while, superaudiobestfriends and some non-euro/american sites have had them as well. We were also doing 10% off straight from the website, from our launch in May 2015 until Halloween 2015, and I think we gave our pre-launch beta users even more off. As time went on though, these became more and more rare. There might be a few left in the wild out there, but we aren't printing more.

 

3) We don't plan on doing any more "X% off" discounts. Don't hold me to this, but it is not in our plans. Not for Christmas, not for Black Friday, etc... We probably will never discount a lifetime membership ever again -- it just doesn't make sense for us. Sorry if you missed out.. that's just how the dice rolls. Early adopters got the deal... but I guess with inflation and risk it all evens out ;-)

 

4) Hardware partners often buy full, or massively discounted subscriptions (annuals) for their customers -- if you purchase a great piece of Roon Ready hardware, ask if they are willing to throw in a Roon membership. Many partners do it because it reduces their support burden.

 

5) If you don't like our pricing, or think that it is crazy, that's OK! Not everything needs to be for everyone, it's all good! I'm not going to tell you that an Aston Martin sucks because I can't stuff my family into one of their cars, or that their business plan would be better if they made a minivan -- you can feel free to say it, but don't be surprised when happy Aston Martin owners think you are crazy.

 

6) Roon keeps getting compared to Audirvana+, HQPlayer, JRiver, etc... but that's comparing apples to oranges. If you care about audio perfection beyond all else, either stick to their terrible user experiences, or spend the $ and get the best of both worlds (there is a reason the only software product we partnered with is HQPlayer). Yes, the ultimate experience costs you the ultimate price.

 

6) Our SQ is pretty awesome from a purist point-of-view, and if you disagree, that means either you are a) doing something wrong in your setup, or b) you prefer a modified non-pure sound that something like HQP excels at. We worked with Jussi extensively to get HQP+Roon working well, just as we do with many hardware partners who become "Roon Ready". This strategy allows our partners to provide the many flavors of audio quality that people desire, while letting us focus on the music user experience. Both sides makes sure the others don't fuck up their expertise. It works well.

 

7) As for DSD vs PCM, I love it when I can find great new content in DSD, but I can't just listen only to DSD... hell, today I was listening to Youtube because that's the only place I could find

 

8) Roon's goal is to provide a great, fun, user experience for music lovers, with no compromises to providing bit perfect audio reproduction in a non-opinionated fashion. Let the many flavors of audiophile religion live in the capable hands of our partners.

 

9) There is no DSP in Roon, and we have big plans for DSP, but no schedule yet. We think we have a few big holes in our offering, and DSP is on that list, just not at the very top. Luckily, members will get those updates for free when they arrive, along with all the other updates.

 

10) We are doing some work now to reduce the barrier to entry for new members, but price drops are not on that list.

 

 

I think I covered all the topics that came up... let me know if I missed any.

[DancingSea]

I'm not sure what they're thinking with the pricing. $120 per year or $500 lifetime with no license to access actual music (ala Tidal or Apple Music)? I think they should sell the application for $75 or so, like Audirvana. Then have a reasonable subscription fee or $30 a year for what amounts to only meta-data. Then set up so Roon can take over iTunes place in the chain and be able to use a variety of favored players, not just HQP.

 

I wonder about the Roon business model. Are there enough well heeled, and willing, audiophiles to pay $500 for what is essentially a meta-data engine - albeit a very nice one? Seems like the money would be appealing to the masses, create something terrific (which it is) that will allure a large base of iTunes users dissatisfied with the bloat. That means reasonable prices in order to appeal to a larger economic pool.

 

I wish Roon the best of luck with their current model, just doesn't make sense to me.