iFi's Pro iDSD (official) - NEW Firmware - MQA and more.

[RichB]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:30 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

It has a wireless functionality.

 

 

Being able act as a Roon end point would be nice, but suspect it may just be Bluetooth capability as available in other iFii audio products.  Wil be interesting to see what pans out.

[AMR/iFi audio]

Preview – Pro series - part 3/5

Even more jaw-dropping features

 

Hi-Res Network Audio

 

As the flagship in iFi Audio’s formidable fleet of DACs, the iDSD Pro is extremely highly specified. In addition to traditional inputs, it features:

• WiFi/network playback system with leading streaming services (see below)
• MQA decoding onboard for the maximum quality of playback via MQA music files or streaming. 
• Wide protocol support including Airplay and USB Memory/Hard Drive/SD Card playback to make a full standalone streamer/network audio player with 32 Bit/192kHz & DSD64 support.

The iDSD Pro gives you plenty of options for playing music online. Here are a few of them:

1. Play direct from SD card
2. Airplay Network Audio Playback from iPhone, iPad, Mac Computers
3. Use Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) to playback from smartphones, tablets and Windows/Linux computers
4. Stream playback from Amazon Music, Audible, Spotify, TIDAL, Napster, Spotify Connect, and QQPlayer
5. Playback from Hard disk drive, USB Memory or SDHC Memory Card
6. Playback from Network Attached Storage (NAS)

 

Zero Jitter for all inputs

For all inputs data is sent to the aforementioned Memory Buffer, which iFi describes as ‘large’ and ‘elastic’. Here it is de-jittered to eliminate any transmission of source jitter to the DAC output. The data from the Memory Buffer is further re-clocked by with the low-jitter Global Master Timing® clock, which also drives the X-Core 200 & FPGA.

 

Click on this more information on iFi’s jitter solution:

 

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_jitter.html

 

Studio Remastering

While the X-Core 200 is favourable for USB Audio, AES/EBU/SPDIF decoding and decoding MQA, DSD, it is not the best platform for DSP, digital filters and PCM-to-DSD conversion. This is where the iDSD Pro’s Studio DSD Remastering system comes in. It excels at handling the Upsampling and Digital Filter duties and has at its heart the Crysopeia FPGA Digital Engine for digital filtering and PCM to DSD remastering, up to DSD1024.

Upsampling in hardware, on board has enabled iFi Audio to overcome the current USB limitation of DSD512 as well as implement multiple filters optimised for specific time-domain behaviour, including that of the DAC and Analogue stage, a level of optimisation not possible in generic software upconversion (as found in Foobar et al).

 

The five filters available are:

1. ‘Bit-Perfect’              No digital filtering is applied, 1 Tap
2. ‘Bit-Perfect+’            No digital filtering is applied, 1 Tap
3. ‘Minimum Phase’     Minimum filtering, no pre-ringing, minimum post ringing, 32 Taps
4. ‘Apodising’                Modest filtering, no pre-ringing, modest post ringing, 128 Taps
5. ‘Transient Aligned’   Max filtering, max Pre-Ringing, maximum Post-Ringing, 16,384 Taps

Stay tuned, there's more!

[asdf1000]

Very interesting!

 

So the FPGA will up-sample internally up to 16x DSD rates. 

 

Stepping into the DirectStream, PlayBack Designs etc world (they up-sample up to 20x DSD rates internally).

 

Very cool.

 

 

[asdf1000]

Also patiently waiting for the all (most?) important power supply and analogue section details :-) 

[RichB]

On 12/28/2017 at 4:20 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

Preview – Pro series - part 3/5

Even more jaw-dropping features

 

Hi-Res Network Audio

 

As the flagship in iFi Audio’s formidable fleet of DACs, the iDSD Pro is extremely highly specified. In addition to traditional inputs, it features:

• WiFi/network playback system with leading streaming services (see below)
• MQA decoding onboard for the maximum quality of playback via MQA music files or streaming. 
• Wide protocol support including Airplay and USB Memory/Hard Drive/SD Card playback to make a full standalone streamer/network audio player with 32 Bit/192kHz & DSD64 support.

The iDSD Pro gives you plenty of options for playing music online. Here are a few of them:

1. Play direct from SD card
2. Airplay Network Audio Playback from iPhone, iPad, Mac Computers
3. Use Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) to playback from smartphones, tablets and Windows/Linux computers
4. Stream playback from Amazon Music, Audible, Spotify, TIDAL, Napster, Spotify Connect, and QQPlayer
5. Playback from Hard disk drive, USB Memory or SDHC Memory Card
6. Playback from Network Attached Storage (NAS)

 

Zero Jitter for all inputs

For all inputs data is sent to the aforementioned Memory Buffer, which iFi describes as ‘large’ and ‘elastic’. Here it is de-jittered to eliminate any transmission of source jitter to the DAC output. The data from the Memory Buffer is further re-clocked by with the low-jitter Global Master Timing® clock, which also drives the X-Core 200 & FPGA.

 

Click on this more information on iFi’s jitter solution:

 

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_jitter.html

 

Studio Remastering

While the X-Core 200 is favourable for USB Audio, AES/EBU/SPDIF decoding and decoding MQA, DSD, it is not the best platform for DSP, digital filters and PCM-to-DSD conversion. This is where the iDSD Pro’s Studio DSD Remastering system comes in. It excels at handling the Upsampling and Digital Filter duties and has at its heart the Crysopeia FPGA Digital Engine for digital filtering and PCM to DSD remastering, up to DSD1024.

Upsampling in hardware, on board has enabled iFi Audio to overcome the current USB limitation of DSD512 as well as implement multiple filters optimised for specific time-domain behaviour, including that of the DAC and Analogue stage, a level of optimisation not possible in generic software upconversion (as found in Foobar et al).

 

The five filters available are:

1. ‘Bit-Perfect’              No digital filtering is applied, 1 Tap
2. ‘Bit-Perfect+’            No digital filtering is applied, 1 Tap
3. ‘Minimum Phase’     Minimum filtering, no pre-ringing, minimum post ringing, 32 Taps
4. ‘Apodising’                Modest filtering, no pre-ringing, modest post ringing, 128 Taps
5. ‘Transient Aligned’   Max filtering, max Pre-Ringing, maximum Post-Ringing, 16,384 Taps

Stay tuned, there's more!

 

Well, hopefully Roon end point capability will only be something along the lines of a firmware update in the future.... going through all AMR/iFi has done to make the unit Airplay (which is limited to 16/44 right?), DLNA, Spotify, tidal etc network capable and not giving the unit the ability to be a Roon end point  does not make great sense to me (for a DAC of this caliber). Looking forward to reading more about the tube/as output stage/design (and maybe a rear panel pic would be nice too so we can see the pile of inputs and outputs this thing has).

[AMR/iFi audio]

1 minute ago, RichB said:

 

Well, hopefully Roon end point capability will only be something along the lines of a firmware update in the future.... going through all AMR/iFi has done to make the unit Airplay (which is limited to 16/44 right?), DLNA, Spotify, tidal etc network capable and not giving the unit the ability to be a Roon end point  does not make great sense to me (for a DAC of this caliber). Looking forward to reading more about the tube/as output stage/design (and maybe a rear panel pic would be nice too so we can see the pile of inputs and outputs this thing has).

 

Network infrastructure is one thing we don't control in 100%. Roon viable on Pro iDSD might happen one day, that's all we have to say in this matter for now.

[AMR/iFi audio]

Preview – Pro series - part 4/5

Jaw-dropping features - the story goes on...

 

Full Galvanic Isolation

 

All inputs are galvanically-isolated (including USB). As found in the AMR DP-777. The USB Input is self-powered and does not draw power from the USB bus, making it impervious to after-market add-ons or tuning accessories.

 

 

Cutting-Edge SPDIF technology

 

The SPDIF etc. inputs use the technology derived from the AMR DP-777, including a new, solid-state implementation of HD-VDi, memory buffer and the Global Master Timing® clock system:

 

http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_spdif.html
http://www.amr-audio.co.uk/html/dp777_tech-papers_jitter.html

 

The SPDIF etc. inputs are not expected to benefit much from any kind of tweaking or tuning gizmos.

 

External Clock options and  Synchronisation

 

For synchronization in recording studios the iDSD Pro supports AES3id based DARS (Digital Audio Reference Signal) as recommended in the Audio Egineering Society’s published AES11 standard. And if you happen to have a really good atomic clock (at least a Sanford Research Systems PERF10 should be used) this can be used as to further elevate the iDSD Pro over the internal clock system.

 

 

 

Yes, this is hugely over-specified but the iFi flagship deserves it.

 

Passive Filtering and Discrete Analogue stage

 

The DACs operate ‘Voltage Output Mode,’ giving >119dB dynamic range. All filtering is passive, using a fully-balanced third order capacitor/inductor/capacitor filter, rather than active, feedback-based circuits, to remove ultrasonic noise. (Active filters struggle with the amount of ultrasonic noise and RFI they have to handle and at a few 100kHz they can lose the ability to filter noise at all, which is precisely where a lot of noise is present.)

 

Using passive CLC filtering directly after the DAC means that the following analogue stage is not required to handle ultrasonic noise and RFI originating from the DAC process. Directly after the DAC and filter is the analogue domain volume control, which uses a six-track Alps Japan potentiometer. This can be bypassed for the line outs.

 

The analogue stage is more precisely a line/headphone driver stage. Using Class A circuitry, it is fully-balanced, fully-discrete, direct-coupled (coupling capacitor less) and Tube/Solid-State user-selectable.

 

Stay tuned, there's more!

[asdf1000]

Hi iFi, is this using the same tech as the iGalvanic (Silanna chip) for USB isolation? Or is it done differently (due to more space perhaps)?

 

And AC voltage input or DC? 

 

 

[rickca]

21 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

The USB Input is self-powered and does not draw power from the USB bus, making it impervious to after-market add-ons or tuning accessories.

I don't know about that.  My QB-9 DSD USB input was self-powered, and it responded very positively to the Uptone Audio REGEN.

[AMR/iFi audio]

4 hours ago, rickca said:

I don't know about that.  My QB-9 DSD USB input was self-powered, and it responded very positively to the Uptone Audio REGEN.

 

Not every USB input, self-powered or not, is the same. 

[AMR/iFi audio]

Folks, you might wanna check the very first post of this thread. We've announced two major informations related to the upcoming Pro iDSD.

[asdf1000]

On 05/10/2016 at 5:26 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

UPDATE!!!

We have some major news to share. First of all, the Pro iDSD premiere date:

The 15th of February 2018

We don't expect any difficulties along the road towards this day. Yet if some shifts will occur, we'll update this very post to keep you good CA people properly informed.

And secondly, the Pro iDSD retail price:

 

• $2,499 (ex-tax)
• €2,999 (inc vat)
• £2,499 (inc vat)

 

 

Not bad at all gents!

 

I assume at this price and by your earlier comments about USB (and SPDIF) inputs being impervious to upstream tweaks & add ons, that the PRO iDSD contains ALL of the micro iUSB3.0 and iGalvanic3.0 and SPDIF iPurifier tech, all built in?

 

Cheers!

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

46 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Not bad at all gents!

 

I assume at this price and by your earlier comments about USB (and SPDIF) inputs being impervious to upstream tweaks & add ons, that the PRO iDSD contains ALL of the micro iUSB3.0 and iGalvanic3.0 and SPDIF iPurifier tech, all built in?

 

Cheers!

 

 

Items like the iUSB3.0 or iGalvanic3.0 are add-ons for DACs that - due to cost constraints or other reasons - benefit from them. But our items you've mentioned are ideally avoided in the design stage if increased cost and complexity is not objectionable.

 

If one designs a DAC from scratch, yet without constraints placed upon the design, it is possible to achieve equal or better performance by design.

 

This is what has been done in the iDSD Pro. The solutions chosen in our upcoming flagship are radically different from those used in iUSB3.0 and iGalvanic3.0 and are integrated in the design of the iDSD Pro on a much deeper level than would have been the case by just adding the tech from other products.

[asdf1000]

17 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

If one designs a DAC from scratch, yet without constraints placed upon the design, it is possible to achieve equal or better performance by design. This is what has been done in the iDSD Pro.

 

Great stuff gents.

 

Can you share some more info on the power supply section and analogue section - in part 5/5 perhaps.

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

Preview – Pro series - part 5/5

Jaw-dropping features - the story ends

 

Power Supplies

 

Using classic tube design, brought up-to-date with 21st Century technology, all incoming DC is converted to a high-frequency waveform then rectified and filtered by a choke input capacitor filter. This produces a first-level DC bus from which all further voltages are derived. The circuit also generates a galvanically-isolated power supply voltage for the USB input circuitry.

 

 

The digital section is powered by a bank of Super Capacitors totaling 6.6 Farad (6,600,000uF). iFi uses Elna Dynacap DZ (TM) Super capacitors because they have a 400 times lower internal impedance than common grades of super capacitors.

Individual low-noise TI LDO Regulators with local LC filtering provide the final low-noise power for all individual digital sections, a total of six individual regulators cover Clock, SPDIF Input and the DAC's digital section.

For the analogue stage (especially the tubes) higher voltages are needed. The whole stage effectively operates on a 60V rail offering massive potential dynamic range.

 

The USB input section has its own separate power management system with multiple regulators and filtering operating from the galvanically-isolated voltage generated to power this section.

 

 

For the analogue stage, higher voltages (especially for the tubes) are needed. The whole analogue stage in effect, operates on 60V rail, giving massive potential dynamic range. These are generated from the main DC Bus and filtered using multiple stages of inductor/capacitor filters, with Elna Silmic Capacitors forming the final stage.

 

Every section in the iDSD Pro has received massive attention to detail and combines classic design techniques for tube equipment with state-of-the-art technology to deliver extreme performance.

 

iDSD Pro Features

 

Sample Rates:                      PCM up to 768kHz

                                               DSD up to 24.576MHz

                                               DXD and double speed DXD (2xDXD)

 

Studio DSD Remastering:   PCM 705.6/768kHz (from all PCM sample rates)        

Crysopeia FPGA                   DSD 512/1024 (22.5792 - 49.152MHz) user-selectable

Digital Engine

 

Inputs:                                   USB (required for DSD, DXD and sample rates above 192KHz)

                                               Wifi – Linkplay

                                               Ethernet – Linkplay

                                               USB-Memory/Harddrive – Linkplay

                                               SDHC Memory Card - Linkplay

                                               AES3 (XLR - single link)

                                               SPDIF (RCA/Optical combo)

                                               BNC multifunction In (SPDIF/AES3id In, DARS In, 10MHz In, Atomic clock in)
                                               BNC multifunction Sync Out (DARS out, 10MHz out)

 

Outputs:                                Balanced XLR at 4.6V (+15.5dBu - HiFi) or 10V (+22dBu - Pro)

                                               Single Ended RCA at 2.3V (HiFi) or 5V (Pro)

                                               Headphones 6.3mm & SE 3.5mm Jack at 2.3V, 5V or 8V maximum

                                               Headphones BAL 3.5mm Jack at 4.6V, 10V or 16V maximum

                                               Headphones out 1,500mW RMS X 2 @ 64 ohm, 4,000mW max. 2 X @ 16 Ohm

 

Volume Control:                  Balanced (quad) Alps potentiometer, motorised with IR remote control

                                               XLR/RCA outputs can be selected as fixed level or adjusted

                                               6.3mm Headphone Jack is always adjusted

 

Other Functions:                 Various digital and analogue filters can be selected for DSD and PCM up to 192KHz

 

PCM Filters:                          Bitperfect (no digital filter, minimal analogue filter)

                                               44.1 - 192KHz, always used for 352.8 - 768kHz

                                               Bitperfect II (no digital filter, analogue filter corrects HF rolloff)

                                               44.1 - 96kHz

                                               Minimum Phase (Filter has no pre-ringing and minimises post-ringing)

                                               44.1 - 384KHz, 32 Tap

                                               Apodising  (Filter has no pre-ringing and moderate post-ringing)

                                               44.1 - 384KHz, 128 Tap

                                               Transient Aligned (Filter has extreme pre- and post-ringing)

                                               44.1 - 384KHz, 16384Tap

                                               additional fixed 3nd order analogue filter @ 100kHz

 

DSD Filters:                           fixed 3rd order analogue filter @ 100kHz,

                                               compensation for 6dB level difference between DSD & PCM

[Doak]

Intriguing and intrigued. 

[asdf1000]

Thanks Gents! @AMR/iFi audio

 

Wow, super impressive stuff.

 

Just to double check, WiFi and ethernet inputs both support up to 32/192 and DSD64?

 

I don't know of many DACs out there that support DSD256 via ethernet input so I assume it's tricky and expensive to do well.

 

Are these the same reasons the PRO iDSD's networked inputs are limited in sample rate support, compared with the USB inputs?

 

 

[firedog]

Very impressive on paper. It checks every audiophile box. Too bad I'm not in the market for a DAC -  I'd probably buy one! 

 

It will be interesting to read consumer and pro reviews when they arrive and if listeners feel this DAC is better than more expensive ones. 

[One and a half]

Linkplay - another protocol and well behind Roon in development. Don't you UK people talk to one another?

[RichB]

On 1/7/2018 at 5:48 PM, Em2016 said:

Thanks Gents! @AMR/iFi audio

 

Wow, super impressive stuff.

 

Just to double check, WiFi and ethernet inputs both support up to 32/192 and DSD64?

 

I don't know of many DACs out there that support DSD256 via ethernet input so I assume it's tricky and expensive to do well.

 

Are these the same reasons the PRO iDSD's networked inputs are limited in sample rate support, compared with the USB inputs?

 

 

 

From reading the iDSD Pro specs, which states that for DSD/DXD/ or PCM above 24/192 - its looks like LinkPlay (Ethernet or WiFi) only does PCM up to 24/192 and does not support DSD (did not see anything on LinkPlays site about DSD/DXD support). Apple AirPlay is PCM only too... I think it can support up to 24/192 (that is if the source supports it).

 

So, for those looking to stream via Ethernet or WiFi (direct to the iDSD Pro), its looks like you are limited to PCM and leave it to the iDSD pro to convert it to DSD via its Studio Remastering function/mode. That will be a bummer thought for those who have a lot of DSD/DXD source material and want to stream via Ethernet to the iDSD Pro... they will need to  use a renderer with USB output to the iDSD Pro that supports DSD/DXD data/rates.

 

I'm sure iFi Audio will clarify things further (especially if I'm wrong about any of this. :-)  )

 

I am curious to know how the single ended analog output is generated... derived from the balanced output???

 

[asdf1000]

19 minutes ago, RichB said:

its looks like LinkPlay (Ethernet or WiFi) only does PCM up to 24/192 and does not support DSD (did not see anything on LinkPlays site about DSD/DXD support). Apple AirPlay is PCM only too... I think it can support up to 24/192 (that is if the source supports it).

 

Yep. DSD64 (via DoP) is supported also.

 

I was more interested in knowing what the limitations were during the iFi design process, looking at higher sample rate support over the network, to allow DSD256 (for example) over the network.

 

As I mentioned, very few DACs support this so I assume it's tricky and expensive to do well. Just wanted to know iFi's thoughts. 

 

Perhaps a network interface supporting DSD256 and PCM384 (or higher) will come in the PRO iDSD Black Label edition !

 

[AMR/iFi audio]

The story about digital filters ... 

... as we see it

 

Alright, let's be frank about one thing...

 

ALL FILTERS ARE WRONG. ALL OF THEM, INLUDING THE 'NO FILTER' OPTION.

 

The reason is that such rules like Nyquists's law sampling theorem are true, but are limited by strictures that make them not directly applicable to highly variant signals (e.g. music) which may contain content that can't be resolved into finite numbers of sine-wave wavelets.

 

 

 

Digital filters are based on steady state mathematics and thus distort the music signal, primarily in the time domain. This is an unavoidable byproduct of their function. Operating without filter distorts the music in a different way.

 

Many publications offer good reasons why a specific form of digital filter is superior. Usually the reasons are based on theory and in how close a given filter implementation comes to such a theoretical ideal.

 

What is commonly omitted and ignored are listening tests of radically different filters with different types of signals.

All digital filters (including non) differ in how they are wrong and how this influences objective measured performance as well as subjective listening performance with music and indeed specific music. 

 

 

Music with a highly percussive nature and many instruments containing non-harmonic sounds (i.e. Jazz or Pop) will react different with a digital filter than music which is based mainly on pure tones and harmonics (i.e. a string ensemble plus a soprano singing).

 

These distortions become all the more relevant and carry greater possible audible consequences, the lower the sample rate. So the most abundant digital music source - CD quality - is most impacted.

 

Wherever there is a difference, there is also a preference. Subjective listening preference may be informed by a learned or acquired response to recorded sound (e.g. what sounds "right" or "hifi" is not what sounds natural in comparison to a live performance), in addition to direct referencing acoustic music performances.

 

So, no matter what single fixed filter is present, it is wrong and may not be preferred by a customer at least not with all music. What AMR implemented in the DP-777 (...and now iFi audio in the Pro iDSD) is to give a user a choice between the CORE possible approaches to digital filtering that we have found to produce meaningful differences and preferences in listening. 

 

 

We offer the option to bypass digital filtering completely, to select minimum phase filters of differing structure (minimum ringing or apodising) or to select a "transient aligned" FIR filter that offer a maximally long filter response and number of taps to come closes to the idealised textbook filter.

 

Hence we do not prescribe ONE singular 'perfect' approach, we offer the choice between different approaches that have all been declared by their respective proponents to be 'perfect' and leave the choice which kind of 'perfection' is preferred to the customer.

 

 

Note, not everyone is sensitized to the differences digital filters make. Whatever your preference, simply choose what you like based on either what you believe to be right or on what sounds best to you. We do recommend to experiment with filters at least occasionally, especially once listening to different styles of music than usual.

 

Stay tuned, coming up is Pro iDSD's digital filtering!

 

 

 

 

[johndoe21ro]

Impressive features.. I'm eager to listen one!

[Totsipaki]

Very Impressive and considering the phenomenal price/ performance ratio of the cheap ifi dac amps I presume this dac will be killer.. Not without a price though.. At 3000eur approximately It is also very very close to the AMR dac.

 

In fact if someone has that sum available in cash the only thing from stopping them from going straight to the AMR 777 is it's much poorer format support. So will you update this as well I am not asking about the price as It is sure to go higher with any update..

 

Finally a personal comment. Even though at this price it is not realistically, financially  approachable by me at this point of my audiophile life I can't help but saying that If it had an Iphono2 incorporated instead of the tube output stage It would surely make me lose a few hours of sleep. So are there any plans for such a version anytime in the future?

 

Thanks for all the fun guys by a black label micro owner!..

 

[rickca]

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